np: Latios - "unban me"

Latios finally gets its wish. With his sister finally being relegated to OU, he will finally have to opportunity to prove what he can actually do in standard play (without Soul Dew).

This test, just to remind you, will not contain Latias. The point of the Suspect Test is to put the Suspect in isolation and determine, through experience, whether or not the Suspect is uber. This will be the first time an actual Suspect Test has landed a Suspect in OU, so it's worth reminding everyone of this.

With regard to Skymin—again—I've discussed it with the staff over the last few weeks and we've decided to keep it in ubers until Stage 3. It was originally voted uber, and regardless of however the test was conducted we feel it's in our best interests to move on to the next Suspects. There is also the concern that many of our participants will not be very inclined to give Skymin another full 30 days of attention. So, all things considered (especially the "this is why i created stage 3" part), we feel this is the best way to move forward.

I'll open this thread when Doug is available to implement the new Suspect Ladder. An interesting "twist" we're adding to future Suspect Tests:


The Suspect Test Facilitators have determined an unpublished but 100% objective requirement in addition to the 1760/55 and 1655/65 requirements posted. We are not publishing this requirement in order to maintain the integrity of the efforts put forth to vote and the Suspect Test Process in general. We will be granting voting privileges to those who meet this unpublished requirement in addition to those who meet the known requirements.


The only thing you need to know about this requirement is that it we've implemented it in the interests of increasing the pool of qualified, knowledgeable voters.

I'd like to reassure everyone that if you make a deliberate, consistent, and sustained effort to gather information about Latios through experience on the suspect ladder you will very likely not have any trouble with the unpublished requirement. As Jumpman said, it is just one more way we are able to increase the quality of our voter pool. Happy testing!

Thread open. As usual, this thread is to be almost completely devoid of theorymon, as it is supposed to be for discussion on how Latios is faring on the Suspect Ladder.

edit: I've gotten this question about five times already so let me just clear this up.

Latios is on the Suspect Ladder. Latias, having been voted OU, is on the Standard Ladder. They cannot (yet) be used in tandem, nor is Soul Dew programmed to work on either.


also this test is over March 5, 2009

Would that mean Doug has updated or we're just allowed to discuss, which if not implemented is predictions of how it would fair.

EDIT: yay for answering my own question.

Latios... I have been running the Max / Max Timid spread. Calm Mind, GK, DM, and Recover. Of the few battles Ive done, It's worked well. Can't wait till the meta cools off!

Hmmmm. Ok, Latios is doing pretty well. Paired with the always good ScarfCross to finish off blisseys, it can ruin a lot of things with CM. Paired with HP Fire, the always claimed Lati@s counter Scizor goes down without the need of a boost :)

DD latios can surprise opponents. It can OHKO a gyarados after two DDances with outrage. (i'm trying physical latios, since a lot of people are using special sets). Heracross rips it to shreds, though. Earthquake handles pesky steels and shadow claw hurts Azelf and Gengar (if he survives). It's going very well for my set, if I do say so myself :D

Most of the Latios that I have seen so far are of the special variety (Life Orb and Specs). All of these teams have also sported Scizor and Magnezone to eliminate Tyranitar and Bronzong, clearing a path for Latios to sweep. We're likely to see much, if not more, of the same typing centralization that we saw with Latias.

Anyway, I expect to see Latios voted Uber by the Suspect voters, mainly because the community at large seems to prefer a stall based metagame. While Latias was voted OU, Latios' offensive characteristics are likely to put people off.

Heracross is coming out off it's hole now. Most will most likely be scarfed for revenge kills. Don't forget about Hera's magic speed numbers people.

Seems as though people want to try out mixed/physical Latios. It's Draco Meteors are scary, but the Outrages are rather easy to handle. Mainly because we're used to handling Mence. I forsee a lot of Latios suicide attackers (some with Dragon Dance) to clear the way for Mence.

I think that Calm Mind isn't as common a move as on Latias. Latios has more raw attacking potential, and will not bother setting up. Life Orb sets with some combination of Draco Meteor, Surf, and various hidden powers will probably be most common, with Outrage to 2HKO Blissey.

FiveKRunner said:

Anyway, I expect to see Latios voted Uber by the Suspect voters, mainly because the community at large seems to prefer a stall based metagame. While Latias was voted OU, Latios' offensive characteristics are likely to put people off.

Click to expand...

Personally, I prefer offensive, however, would like stall to be equally viable (ideally), as a well constructed team, geared towards either strategy, should be successful. Essentially, what I'm saying is that while I might not particularly like stall compared to offense, I wouldn't want stall to be nerfed at all.

Right now I'm at number five on the suspect ladder (but predict that I'll be off the top 50 by tomorrow, as the ladder has only just started, so the 1075 I have shouldn't be good enough). Personally, from what I've seen, my old OU team isn't having to many problems.
I made a dumb mistake once, leading to one of my three losses today, in which I switched a full health snorlax (6 hp/252 sp def w/ nuetral nature) into a latios (rather then a piece of death fodder), to see it 2HKOed by draco meteor, showing that specs latios is exceptionally powerful, and could very well put a huge dent in stall based teams.
Dragon dance latios is scary, mostly because it is very hard to revenge kill without priority. Thankfully it isn't close to as menacingly powerful as DDmence.
CM latios is much easier to switch into (if it cms that is a free switch, if not then it isn't hitting as hard), and can thus be countered much more easily by things like snorlax. However, again, snorlax can't be considered a counter as it can be 2HKOed by the specs set.

Far more frightening then specsmence, which is already scary. Much faster, hits much harder, and lack of a 4x weakness.

FiveKRunner said:

Most of the Latios that I have seen so far are of the special variety (Life Orb and Specs). All of these teams have also sported Scizor and Magnezone to eliminate Tyranitar and Bronzong, clearing a path for Latios to sweep. We're likely to see much, if not more, of the same typing centralization that we saw with Latias.

Click to expand...

For future suspect play I think I will try to build a team based around trying to exploit latios (rather then completely lacking it), as I will probably start coming up against extreme problems with my OU team as people get much better at taking advantage of latios.
The team would likely be similar to what's been outlined by FiveKRunner, or at least based off the same strategy...

EDIT:
Seventh at time of posting, not fifth ;). Either way, I only wanted to state that I played a decent amount of games (leading to the drop in standard deviation that led to rise in conservative rating estimate) and hopefully have a decent idea of latios.

DD Latios is starting to lose its touch. Also, as a side note, Momoswine is as deadly as a threat as Heracross. Special Latios should have surf and physical sets should have waterfall.

Am I the only person that is going to try using a Support set for Latios? Latios has Dual Screen + Recover + Memento. I am going to try and recreate one of the BP teams used during the DS Deo-E craze.

Can anyone help me find what those teams generally consisted of?

AbsolDeath used to run a Dragon Dance Calm Mind Latios on the old Ubers Ladder. I wonder how it would fair in todays OU game.

Chris is me said:

I don't understand why Latios is being tested alone when Latias was voted OU. I'm sure there's a sensible reason for it, but Pokémon's uber status is entirely determined by the Pokémon around them, not as some intristic property of themselves (and something is OU it isn't a "suspect" anymore right?).

Then again, I never understood why we test Suspects in isolation first anyway so I'm probably doomed to not understand this.

Click to expand...

its amazing how many times i have to post "that's why i invented stage 3"

and i even posted in the past two days why pokemon are tested in isolation, go read page 4 of the order of operations thread

100kvolts said:

Am I the only person that is going to try using a Support set for Latios?

Click to expand...

I've been trying to use a more defensive version of Latios, it fails miserably. So in other words, no.

I dont understand the reason to use a supportive latios because his sister Latias does it 2 times better thanks to her bigger sp defense.

ReyScarface said:

I dont understand the reason to use a supportive latios because his sister Latias does it 2 times better thanks to her bigger sp defense.

Click to expand...

Maybe because this is a Latios test, not a Latias test.

Well, first I gotta say that I dislike the title of this thread. It is a little bit "leading" as it is telling people to unban latios, to join his sister latias. Of course, most people should be smart enough to come up with their own decisions, but the thread title still seems a little leading.

Secondly, I am quite intrigued by the "unpublished" requirement. If I had to guess, I'd say it's a "total games played" requirement. Will this requirement ever be published? Or will it hold for future tests? (although the last part probably isn't that planned far in a head).

Anyways, Latios hits harder than Latias and just might pull off the specs set a little better. I could see it going either way at the moment.

scofield said:

Well, first I gotta say that I dislike the title of this thread. It is a little bit "leading" as it is telling people to unban latios, to join his sister latias. Of course, most people should be smart enough to come up with their own decisions, but the thread title still seems a little leading.

Click to expand...

its a joke and a play on the name of my ingame Latios, im allowed to display a sense of humor/wit arent i? lighten up

Secondly, I am quite intrigued by the "unpublished" requirement. If I had to guess, I'd say it's a "total games played" requirement. Will this requirement ever be published? Or will it hold for future tests? (although the last part probably isn't that planned far in a head).

Click to expand...

it will hold for all future tests, besides that im not telling

scofield said:

Secondly, I am quite intrigued by the "unpublished" requirement. If I had to guess, I'd say it's a "total games played" requirement. Will this requirement ever be published? Or will it hold for future tests? (although the last part probably isn't that planned far in a head).

Click to expand...

heh, the fact that it's "secret" makes you want to know so much more lol.

Anyways, Latios hits harder than Latias and just might pull off the specs set a little better. I could see it going either way at the moment.

Click to expand...

Just from my very few matches played and watched (and calcs done) I find the Choice Specs Latios increased special attack is "just enough" to get the job done on certain things that troubled Latias so much.

Edit: And skarm is right =0

I've watched a dozen or so battles and plan to make a Latios team in the near future to start playing. Right now my first impression is that this vote will be a lot closer than Latias was.

I think the offensive kick I've seen, which all the Latios matches I've watched have had Life Orb Latios, the extra kick in its Spec Att. that Latias doesn't have will be the deciding factor. While I think Latias was easily Standard material, Latios will only be decided with a lot more testing that I really should be partaking in instead of typing on here!

I don't like the idea of this secret requirement being announced. It seems like an easy way out for anybody not willing to put the full effort into it. I like that its there, just not that it's out in the open (anybody can read Aeolus' post and pretty much know what is needed). I hope the admins can pick out the bad ones.

Heracross is all over. Latios is on every team (no surprise really). Blissey is also on a majority of teams. Tyranitar is nowhere to be seen unlike the Latias test where everyone had it. Scizor is abundant but that's not a surprise.

So far (which isn't very far), this is looking great, especially since it's different in that not everybody is packing 6-7 counters for the suspect. Teams don't have anymore than 2 steels usually as well (maybe it's since Latios' Surf can hurt).

Of course, not much can be seen from a few hours of being available :P

Latios is coming along nicely. Ice shard, shadow ball and crunch are causing trouble, but latios is proving to take hits from these moves pretty well. I'm very impressed. Latios should be taken very seriously. That's it for now. Goodnight.

its a joke and a play on the name of my ingame Latios, im allowed to display a sense of humor/wit arent i? lighten up

I'm sure no one values humor/wit more than I ^_^

Of course, I certainly wasn't aware that it was an inside joke when I was peeking in.

And I'm pretty intrigued from the initial posts, I just might be inclined to take latios for a spin myself, once I find a free spot of time, whenever that is.

For latias, the CM set was the most popular, what's the most popular Latios set thus far?

I just did my first suspect battle, and fought a Calm Mind Latios with a Life Orb to boot. I was using my regular OU team. Turns out Jolly Heracross was unexpected enough that pursuit took out the Latios who was confident enough to stay in anyway. The Latios basically destroyed BandMence, which I guessed anyway, and also Suicune with I believe CM LO Grass Knot. I won with only Heracross left. I think the way people use Latios will be varied, and will change as people come up with different counters.