I like to call him Rapie...(Rampardos discussion)

efire_

I'm not gonna pretend for a second that I'm anything but a newb at this, but I definitely want to hear your comments on this poke. I didn't find any other threads on him, but hopefully I didn't overlook one and will then get flamed for this. For some reason, rampie really caught my attention when I first saw him at serebii.

Rampardos - Rock
HP: 97
Att: 165
Def: 60
SA: 65
SD: 50
Spd: 58

Ability: Unconventional - Opponent's ability has no effect

Physical Moves
Double Headbutt
Reminiscant Headbutt
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Focus Punch
Brick Break
Crunch
Pursuit
Ancientpower
Snow Slide
Hyper Beam
Giga Attack
Iron Tail
Return
Crunch
Double-Edge
Arm Hammer
Endeavor

Special Moves

You kidding?

Support Moves

Rock Cart
Swords Dance
Stealth Rock
Endure
Substitute
Protect
Screech(:P)

Nice HP, insane attack, crap def, blah, blah blah. You know all this. To me, rapie basically looks like a slow slaking. Switch in on something that can't do much to you, predict, kill something, get out. Supposedly. I was looking at the stats, being all sad at the crap speed, and realized something - why not use that lovely Rock Cart?

Rampardos - Adamant
64 HP/252 Attack/192 Speed

Double Headbutt/Stone Edge
Earthquake
Reminiscant Headbutt/Brick Break/something
Rock Cart

192 speed gives it 200 speed unboosted, and 400 boosted, enough to outrun a timid jolt, which is nice. I really, really like the STABed Double Headbutt; there's so much that Rock is SE against. So, switch into something that can't hit you, take the Rock Cart, and hopefully hurt whatever comes in. hopefully. There's the obvious Choice Bander, of course - just put in some physical move in for Rock Cart, put the Speed EVs in the defenses, and add choice band. For some reason, I'm wanting to put a Sub on him with that nice HP. Perhaps a subpuncher? He's definitely got the speed for it...only no defense. meh. I also see possibilities with Endure, like the use of a Salac or Petaya berry, but it'd still probably die with the Petaya, and the Salac wouldn't boost rapie's speed nearly enough without precious EVs being poured into speed.

IMO, Snow Slide isn't very good on him. He really can't afford to take hits, and Snow Slide isn't going to be killing anything with only 60 BP (assuming you're not hit). It's really too bad that Unconventional doesn't completely null the opponent's ability. Still, it is nice to hit all those pokes with Levitate, which is better (IMO) than a Rock Headed Double Edge (which is mostly likely what rapie would've had if not for Unconventional). If only Intimidate was blocked...As much as it hurts for me to say, Rhyperior seems to be looking better and better as I look at this guy - ry's got just a bit less attack and way more defense, not to mention an amazing trait in Hard Rock. Hopefully this doesn't mean rapie is outdone, but that's one of the things I'd like some insight on. sweet. Fire away.
 
CBing this would be crazy. STABbed, Choice Banded, max attack Double Headbutt will surely scare even Skarmory. A Substitute set may be cool also, but it's kind of like a crappy Rhyperior.
 
bring him in on blissey if your CB-ing and you should be up for quite a show... still i like the somewhat standard focus strip on him instead (to guarantee a rock cart and then ruin the opponent)
 
figures there'd already be the same exact topic, just done better. Great. Thanks for not flaming:P Indeed, the Double Headbutt CB is crazy...and rapie's high HP can take the recoil damage. Now that I think about it, perhaps that's what he was made for. I really like that Focus Strip idea, you'd just have to hope that you could kill them in one hit. Still, rhyperior seems to be generally better...
 
yeah cb double headbutt is such a great idea when there is a good chance your gonna do 50% damage to yourself.

Seriously has the hype about this overated thing stopped yet, people need to start hyping a real underlooked threat like dragonite.
 
Doesn't a Double Headbutt actually kill Rampardos if it uses it against Blissey? I'm sure that was in one of the old threads about this thing.

I'm not keen on the Focus Strip and Rock Cart idea. If it takes any kind of prior damage, Focus Strip won't work. Leaving Rampardos out of the battle until you've killed your opponents Spiker and Stealth Rocker seems like too much work.

I'd take Tyranitar over this any time. Rock Cart Rhyperior is better too.
 
double headbutt will kill rampard it it has no HP evs and it does 100% damage to a max HP blissy ( Double headbutt has 50% recoil )
 
Rampardos is 'accidentally' countered by 3 or 4 pokes on every standard team. I am not concerned about him at all, and I truly don't understand why people are still acting like he is dangerous. What good is that high attack stat if he can never get an attack off?

What could you possibly switch him into? Almost anything 2HKOs him and he is slower than fuck. He only works with either unreliable setups or a choice scarf, and his inability to switch into attacks ruins the Choice Item strategy. Not to mention that most of his moves have low accuracy.

His best strategy IMO is focus strip + rock cart as a lead. Most leads destroy him easily so the focus strip guarantees that he'll get the speed boost, then he can 'attempt' a sweep.
 
Let me get this strait ABSOLute, you intend to tell me Rampardos' best strategy in your eye is to risk getting whaled on and lose 99% of its HP just so it has a chance to sweep that ends whan a Revenge killer, anything Rampardos can't OHKO (Rhyperior and Crescelia come to mind) AScarf user, or priority attacker comes in?

You are free to think as you please, but it seems like you've long since decided "Rampardos is too hyped" and simply don't want to put any effort in to making it more viable, fearing it might validate the opinions of other smogoners who disagree.

As for my thought on Rampardos' most effective strategy, it has to be the Jolly ASCarf version.

First: with 355 adjusted speed after AS, it outspeeds All Base 110's and any +(non-speed) pokemon other than Jolts/Aero/Crobat (and faster ASers, obviously), and it can lay waste to many common starters before they move. Double Headbutt can OHKO AGMence even after Intimidate before it even moves, ditto with Gyarados.

That being said, Rampardos is not forced to use DH every single time it attacks like people seem to theorize. It has the most powerful UnSTABBed EQ in the game and its trait means it can smack Levitators like Gengar and Dootakun around. It also has Stone Edge or Rock Slide, which allow it to deal gobs of STAB damage without sacrificing HP. Finally, Rampardos gets Pursuit making the AS set a useful revenge killer as well.

This is the set I came up with in the Major Leads thread:

Rampardos @ Adherance Scarf
Jolly (+Spd, -SA)
<Unconventional>
EVs: 120 HP/64 Atk/16 Def/56 SD/252 Speed.
~ Double Headbutt
~ Stone Edge
~ Earthquake
~ Pursuit

The short answer is it can OHKO starter AGMence and (bulky or less)Gyarados even after Intimidate with DH. It does sacrifice some HP and might be revenge killed, but seeing as how some believe Rampardos to be worthless, Rampardos for Gyara or AGMence seems like a good trade to me. The attack is set also to OHKO Staraptor with Stone Edge even factoring in Intimidate, thereby allowinf it more chances to come in. Assuming it doesn't get revenge-killed early on, it can come in later and use Pursuit. The HP and SD EV's it have allow it to survive ASGar's Max SA Modest Energy Ball, meaning it can deal with that lead as well.

I like the Choice Bander idea as well, but I feel Rampardos is infinitely more dangerous with +1 speed than it is with +1 attack. I don't believe in the criticism that AScarf requires 264 speed min to be effective, most of the threats in the metagame simply aren't that fast, and Rampardos is unable to catch Base 130 threats anyway, although only Aero has any shot at taking it out before it moves in that category.

Rampardos is not hyped. The general understanding on the board is that it is a "glass cannon." There is a difference between "hype" and recognizing a real threat.

Criticism: Rampardos is too slow
My solution: Use AScarf to get the drop on foes.

Criticism: Rampardos has poor aggregate defenses
My solution: Give it enough defenses to survive any TWO likely attacks, and use the retaliatory turn to wipe something out.

Rampardos is certainly not a tank, noone is arguing it is, but like Gengar it has the ability to survive nearly any two attacks. This fact combined with its offensive prowess makes Rampardos a threat. This is why I think AScarf is the best. Slow + Poor defenses IS bad. Kill things before they move and you don't really have to worry about defenses. Simple logic seems to indicate that AScarf is the best means to solve both problems, because it means Rampardos does not have to make itself vulnerable to attack with a set-up turn.

We are long past the stage of "OMG 165 BASE ATK ALL GON DIE!" from a few months ago. I think it is disingenuous to continue to say Rampardos s "hyped" when clearly everyone is aware of its weaknesses. I simply make it my mission to take pokemon with weaknesses and try to work my way around those weaknesses to turn underapreciated pokemon into threats. This is also the reason I am more deeply interested in the UU metagame than the OU metagame, since it allows more leeway to try out new ideas.
 
I don't know why you think i didn't try to make him more viable since i'm the one who came up with the focus strip idea in the first place. And yes, that idea is certainly a huge risk, but so is using Rampardos in general. I believe it is his best strategy due to his massive unsurviveability factor.

I also listed the choice scarf variant as a somewhat useful version in my post, but listed a problem with it that you failed to address in your awfully long reply; rampard can't switch into attacks effectively, almost negating his hit-and-run potential. And here's another problem; many pokemon, especially starters, can still outspeed AS rampard, unless he's jolly - and alot of pokemon, especially starters, are packing scarves themselves.

He's a glass cannon alright, but that's exactly my point. Why use a glass cannon when you can use a die-hard titanium railgun like Rhyperior, who can serve the same function but actually has survivability?

it seems like you simply don't want to put any effort in to making it more viable, fearing it might validate the opinions of other smogoners who disagree.
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Normally I don't pursue things like this, but honestly...zuh? What in the holy hell are you talking about? You seem to be awfully high-strung and angry. Chill out, dude! Get laid!
 
Double headbutt is meant for relicanth with rock head imo. Anyways, Im damn sure this monster will be on my trick room team.
 
Personally, I would rather use Rhyperior on a Trick Room team - it has a lot of the same abilities, it's even slower, and can also take a hit and counter CBtar in a pinch.
 
ABSOLute said:
He's a glass cannon alright, but that's exactly my point. Why use a glass cannon when you can use a die-hard titanium railgun like Rhyperior, who can serve the same function but actually has survivability?
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The only thing Rhyperior and Rampardos have in common are Rock typing and massive attack stats. If you want a slow Choice Bander or a Swords Dancer, obviously you go with Rhyperior. Rhyperior OR Rampardos is a false dichotomy and you know it. Hell, AS Groos or Garchomp make a more direct comparison to Rampardos than Rhyperior. And btw, with Rampardos you can afford to be more risky. After all, why risk losing/having statuses your titanium railgun when you can keep that in reserve and begin with a glass cannon that poses an equal offensive threat instead?

ASRampardos selling points are thus: outspeeds many leads, can revenge kill, and can deal with Levitators that are normally ass for something with EQ to deal with like Dootakun, Weezing, or Gengar with Earthquake. Rhyperior's selling points are that it is a fatass with monstrous attack power and has no totally effective counter. You switch Rhyperior in when you want it to eat an attack and shrug it off, you switch Rampardos in when you've gotten yourself a free turn via Hypnosis, Spore, or Encore (or aforementioned ass wall) and you also switch it in on what you switch most fragile things in on, which is crap like Skarmory and Blissey that can't attack worth anything. There is also a limited number of things that switch into Rampardos without taking massive damage.

To me, Rampardos serves well at two points in the game: as a starter where it can cause major damage or OHKO several leads, or as a late game sweeper when the opponent is weakened and mostly statused. UnSTABBED or NonCB attacks cannot OHKO Rampardos unless they come from the upper echelon of attack stats.
 
Can Rampardos reach 51 HP Substitutes at Level 50 or is that only an option for Tropius and above?
 
Death Phenomeno said:
Can Rampardos reach 51 HP Substitutes at Level 50 or is that only an option for Tropius and above?
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I'm filing this under Probably. Quagsire (95 Base) reaches 202 and Tropius (99 Base) reaches 206, so Rampardos' 97 should, with MAX HP EVs and IVs, reach 204.
 
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