RMT: Team SuperCyberScouts!

General Strategy: The scouts do what they do best, chip away at HP and leave Pokemon weak enough for Infernape or possibly Starmie to pick off, or they can revenge kill themselves.



Lead: Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP/52 Atk/216 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Protect

Generic Swampert lead. I usually use Stealth Rock first, or protect if I'm predicting a Choice user. Earthquake is for STAB and Avalanche is to hammer things down because it's slow either way and the 120 base power potential is worth it. A basic good tank, nice resists and can come in on a lot of things later on.


Scout: Kitsunoh (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Limber
EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- ShadowStrike
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- U-turn

The scouts have unintentionally managed to find their ways into three different categories: one for speed, one for power, and one for a balance of both. This is definitely the balanced one. CAP7's product, Kitsunoh, is said to be bad at scouting, but it does it's job extremely well. Puts a massive dent in many things with U-Turn, as well as scouts. ShadowStrike is an amazing revenge killing move. EQ is rarely used, so it might be replaceable, but Ice Punch has been valuable, hitting evasive Fliers and Dragons. The Choice Band sacrifices versatility for pure power, but the power has proven to be worth it. I went with Limber over Frisk because I had some problems predicting against Thunderwave earlier.


Scout: Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- U-turn
- Grass Knot
- Perish Song
- Recover

Still being tested, will update later. Celebi might be replaced with Flygon again if it does not work out.


Spinner: Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 148 HP/252 Spd/108 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Rapid Spin is usually considered gimmicky because the Pokemon that have it are liabilities. On a fast special attacker with decent defenses and great typing, it's something else entirely. Stealth Rock and spikes greatly takes away from the ability to continuously switch in, something that the scouts really depend on, and once the opponents primary SR'er or spiker is gone, I can spin away and I'm home free. Surf is basic STAB and Thunderbolt is for good coverage. Everyone loves a recovery move too!



Scout: Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef (was 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd)
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower (was Brick Break)
- Pursuit

STAB Choice Banded U-Turn coming off of Max Attack Scizor (who has 130 base attack) hurts. It hurts a lot. The scout of power, this can hammer things. U-Turn is for scouting, as we all know by now, as well as STAB. Bullet Punch singlehandedly made Scizor one of the most used Pokemon since Platinum. The other two moves basically never see use, but both can be useful situationally.


Sweeper: Infernape (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk/192 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Nasty Plot
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Vacuum Wave

NP Mixape with priority. Infernape is infamous for it's wall breaking capabilities, and it's pretty damn useful because my team has problems with a large number of walls. Skarmory, Blissey, Bronzong, Snorlax, Forretress, and others fall to its amazing versatility. Flamethrower and Close Combat are for good STABs that hit on both sides of the spectrum. Vacuum Wave over Grass Knot is sure to bring up some controversy, but Grass Knot fails to OHKO many important bulky Waters. Those usually come out much earlier than Infernape and get a lot of HP picked off from continuous U-Turns or Stamie's Thunderbolt. Infernape can handily kill many with Flamethrower or Close Combat after they've been worn down. Vacuum Wave picks off out-of-control sweepers that have too much speed or have little HP left, as well as gaining from STAB and Nasty Plot.


There it is, team SUPERCYBERSCOUTS. It has been dependable, showing very few problems that I can't play around, but I feel there is always room for improvement.

Removed for the time being:


Scout: Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Thunderpunch
- U-turn
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Look at those eyes, man! This guy can see through your guise with ease. This is the speedy scout, this can come in on most Pokemon with those great defenses and hit back. One of the best scouts there is, and it does it's job well. Outrage is a great STAB move, along with Earthquake. Both hammer things lategame, but U-Turn is what I find myself using the majority of the time, as scouting is extremely valuable for this team. Thunderpunch is the most expendable and extremely situational, but killing that boosted Gyarados has proven to be quite satisfying. I went with Jolly over Adamant because it outspeeds Metagross with an Agility under it's belt.

Now, I've talked to you about this team before, and it's quite apparent that bulky waters aren't exactly the best things your team can deal with. Even if you manage to wear down their HP, they will either recover right in your face or force switches, putting you in the defense. Now, your scouts can all hit fairly hard, however the things that your scouts all hit are kinda similar statwise. Although this team is called "super scouts," you could really afford to take out a scout that does the most meh to your team and replace it with something like Celebi.

When using Celebi, you could opt for a Sub/Grass Knot/EP/HP Ice, or you could even go the support set of Twave/Reflect/Grass Knot/Recover. If you choose to use the sub set, you could probably pass it off as scouting for your opponent's moves, and the sub set also has the surprise factor needed to have a successful team.

If you run the support set, you make room for Infernape's sweep at the end with things such as Twave crippling your opponent's team. The thing is, I think you have enough things to chip away at your opponent's health, so fortifying the team's foundation is definitely an option.

As for Infernape, I'm not particularly a fan of Lefties. You told me that LO Ape gets killed too easily by Sandstorm, but at least run something to pack more oomph into Infernape. Expert Belt even works over Leftovers, as it provides Infernape the extra package to kill things. Because your Infernape is notably eh in power without a NP or an SE hit, You might want to try using Fire Blast to hit harder.

When I got killed by this team, the one thing I couldn't help noticing was that all three of your scouts were immune to my Tyranitar's Sand Stream, and this annoyed me somewhat. For that reason, I would like to recommend that you get a Sand Streamer on there somewhere to help chip off a bit more of your opponent's health. The most obvious choice is Hippowdon over Swampert. Hippo can set up Stealth Rocks and use Protect and Earthquake the same as Swampert, with the added bonus of guranteeing sand in every match, a definite advantage for your team.

Needless to say, I really like this team.

If you opt for Hippowdon over Swampert, you really lose a key response to some special threats. Things like Heatran could dent Hippow harder than Swampert, and that's something you really don't want to lose. Nothing in your team other than Swampert can take a special based hit that well, so I don't think you should really take it out for Hippow. =/

Hey Cyber, it's SEO. I got a pretty good look at your team last night during our 30 minute battle and I think I have some suggestions. Your team has a very hard time breaking stall, all that scouting isnt going to do you much good if you cant break that stupid vaporeon or whatever. Why not drop one of those scouters and add something that can rip holes in those defensive monsters.

First off I think that infernape cant afford to let bulky waters get the upperhand, as mentioned earlier vaporeon kinda much has a field day with this team, I'm speaking from experience, and I think that that a NP GK will be able to deal with it much better than anything you have at the moment, especially when you take into account the fact that Vappy should have been weakned by you other scouts right?. Im not sure on the damage calcs or anything so dont quote me.

Ill get back to you on those calcs...

Ok nevermind about that vaporeon would have to be like at 70% for it to KO so... I'm not sure what on your team can break that. Let me keep thinking (someone can step in and help me now >.<)

@Plus-How does that Celebi fare against Vappy?

Oh, my bad; I didn't notice the general special weakness. Maybe you can try a specially defensive Tyranitar? Unfortunately, that leaves you with another Water weakness, which you only have one resistance to.

I really do believe that a Sand Stream Pokemon would help your team quite a bit, but I'm not sure where to put it. Hippo over Swampert seemed like a really good idea to me before, but Plus has brought up a valid point. Heatran itself isn't much of a threat, as Flygon can always revenge it, but something like a choice scarf Starmie could wreck your team.

Like I said though, I really like the idea of some Sandstorm support. Maybe give Hippo over Swampert a shot and see how it goes?

Well to solve that special problem why not change scizor to a more special defensive EV spread, and add roost to the mix. This could also give you a good check on that stupid latias. Hippo lead could potentially be useful to nulify leftovers recovery from those bulky waters, therfore opening them up to the aforementioned infernape, but I'm not too sure what to do without changin a member of your team.

Why would you put roost on a CB scizor? Anyway, this team looks great, but probably would have a hard time with stall.

Feel free to call me absolutely nuts cyber (especially if I don't remember well and he doesn't learn it), but you could possibly use Rock Smash over Brick Break. 50% chance to lower defenses is very sexy and good for forcing switches like a good scout should, AND it gets the Technician boost to 60 BP so there's not much of a power drop. Your call, though; Brick Break does destroy the somewhat common screens.

Ehhh, Rock Smash...I wouldn't go for it. You make decent points, Numb, but the power differential from Brick Break can make a difference...consider the difference between Brick Break and Superpower, after all.

As you well know from our battle last night, you lack the real smashing power to break through stall--a combination of Blissey and Moltres completely shut you down because you did nothing capable of overtaking Blissey's Softboiled. I'd suggest some kind of wallbreaker, but you already seem to have that in Flygon and Infernape. I would agree with the sentimement that a Choice Band Tyranitar or something would help immensely, but you'd have to give up one of the scouters to fit it, and they all seem essential to your team.

Overall, I'd say discard Kitsunoh, but that's because I dislike its fragility. It's your call, really.

MapleSandwich said:

consider the difference between Brick Break and Superpower, after all.

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I don't know if this is an uneducated question (so, it is!) but why not Superpower over Brick Break on CB Scizor? The power increase is Huge and Scizor is unlikely to use it unless predicting a weak switch in so if if you mispredict and Superpower is resisted it'll still put a large dent most things. Either way you're unlikely to stay in so the power drop is unimportant.

Actually, drop Brick Break for Superpower. Rock Smash is horrible and really doesn't account for much with the defense drop as your Scizor is choiced meaning your opponent can simply switch after a defense drop, but it would even be weak in the first place and would mostly be dead space with better options, so there's really no point to it. Superpower would be the superior option for the ability to actually hit things.

Now that I think about it, you also need something to switch into Blissey a bit easier without predicting too hard on the set, as Ice Beam Blissey scares Flygon, Toxic scares Swampert, Twave scares Infernape, Flamethrower scares Kitsunoh/Scizor etc. Although those moves are obviously not going to be on the same set, it is important to simply switch in without fearing anything, and this is where Celebi works wonders again. Leech Seed will force Blissey to switch, along with taking 30 or so damage from a FT/IB which Leech Seed would also remedy. Status is not a problem due to Natural Cure. So, if you ever do run a celebi, make sure to pack Leech Seed, as it makes your life that much easier.

Haha, I'm going on a bit of a rant here on Celebi, but you could even run Perish Song! Perish Song pseudo hazes threats to your team you can't handle or walls, and forces them into submission. It's also an option if you feel you are limited on moves to load Celebi and just want to go with good old Phazing. It might look weird on such an offensive team, but that is still an option when going for the threats your team can't handle at the moment, ex. bulky waters as of now.


@ Fenix

Celebi can run Leech Seed if need be to outstall Vaporeon, but if it has Toxic, you can easily switch out and have leech seed to another member of the team. Grass Knot roughly does 30-40% to vaporeon as well so it's not exactly too happy about celebi. Or, you could use the Perish Song set I mentioned earlier to scare vappy away, as it can easily outstall a Vappy for way over 3 turns.

Even so, you have Starmie there with Thunderbolt who will be there to do decent damage to vaps with Thunderbolt, provided they do not run HP elec (which they usually do not). Heck, it can even take it with Recover and last an HP elec if you don't expect the attack.

Also, NP Grass Knot still wouldn't OHKO Vaporeon from an Ape, so I'm not so sure if that's the best option. I think his ape set is fine, apart from the item which is his decision.

I'm going to confess, I've very much liked Brick Break over Superpower on the CAP server lately. It seems like every other team leads with a Dual Screen Azelf, so that Brick Break support comes in handy. I lead with Scarf Flygon, so I U-Turn while Azelf Reflects, Azelf Light Screens and I use Brick Break. Granted, my Scizor is Life Orbed, meaning I can Bullet Punch Azelf for the KO after I Break it's screens, but I still say that Brick Break is a perfectly viable option.
Superpower does have that base 120 power, though.

Scizor's EV's have been changed, Superpower has gone over Brick Break. Flygon has been replaced with Celebi for the time being, but it may be subject to change. If I bring Flygon back, I'll be testing a Tyranitar lead, as it seems very interesting.

Thanks for the help everyone, I'll keep you posted!

True, but Superpower kind of ruins longevity plans for Scizor; all it can really do after one (or maybe two) Superpowers is switch out, lest it be slain by the opponent's own physical sweeper. It sucks that there isn't a decent power, 100% accurate Fighting move that doesn't have a drawback. Unless the physical sweeper in question has Close Combat, you either have to put up with the lackluster power/accuracy of Brick Break/Cross Chop or switch out after a use of Superpower.

Long story short (and small off-topic rant aside), each move has its pros and cons:

• Superpower is the most powerful and VERY good for hit-and-run, but lowers Attack AND Defense, leaving Scizor VERY open to revenge kills.
• Brick Break has a LOT less power, but Scizor can continue to use it so long as a resist doesn't pop in. It also pops Dual Screeners upside the head.
• Rock Smash gets a Technician boost and has a lovely switch-causing side effect, but is still the weakest of the three. (But, did you know it just got a power boost this generation?)

Rock Smash really doesn't seem like all that good of an option. Although 60 Base Power doesn't seem all that worse than 75, it's actually quite important. For example, did you know that Rock Smash will never OHKO 4/0 Tyranitar, even with Stealth Rock? Brick Break is a guranteed OHKO. Likewise, Brick Break is a guranteed 2HKO on Heatran, while Rock Smash has only a slim chance.

Besides, comparing 60 to 120 is a huge difference. Locking yourself into a base 60 power move is never a good idea. Expect Gliscor to come into those and lol at you as it sets up and Paton Passes to a sweeper.

Incidentally, Aura Sphere fits that move description perfectly, but I know you meant a physical Fighting attack.

Aura Sphere has PERFECT accuracy, not 100%. :3

True, Rock Smash isn't the best of options if you don't get too lucky or concerned about power, in which case the other two options are available by all means... but the point of Rock Smash isn't power or "getting the OHKO" (though that is nice). The point is to chip away at HP and maybe force switches, which Rock Smash does with dropped Defense; this is, unless I miss my guess, is what even a power-oriented scout is built to do. And if your opponent overpredicts and decides to stay in, the next Rock Smash hurts even worse!

A bit off-topic, but Rock Smash can also work well on a Serene Grace Togekiss/Jirachi/whatever else to do SOME damage to (and maybe even force out) things that normally wall it like Blissey and maybe even Snorlax (as Serene Grace guarantees the defense drop). It's a bit weak, but it's better than trying to flinchax them to death, no?

I don't claim to be any sort of expert; I'd just like to try to inject some creativity into OU so it can be fun again. <_<;

if people dont worry that much about close combat dropping their defenses, then i doubt they will pay attention to rock smash until they have a -3 def.

Numbuh 214 said:

Aura Sphere has PERFECT accuracy, not 100%. :3

True, Rock Smash isn't the best of options if you don't get too lucky or concerned about power, in which case the other two options are available by all means... but the point of Rock Smash isn't power or "getting the OHKO" (though that is nice). The point is to chip away at HP and maybe force switches, which Rock Smash does with dropped Defense; this is, unless I miss my guess, is what even a power-oriented scout is built to do. And if your opponent overpredicts and decides to stay in, the next Rock Smash hurts even worse!

A bit off-topic, but Rock Smash can also work well on a Serene Grace Togekiss/Jirachi/whatever else to do SOME damage to (and maybe even force out) things that normally wall it like Blissey and maybe even Snorlax (as Serene Grace guarantees the defense drop). It's a bit weak, but it's better than trying to flinchax them to death, no?

I don't claim to be any sort of expert; I'd just like to try to inject some creativity into OU so it can be fun again. <_<;

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It shouldn't be injected with the amount of creativity where some sets are pure shit, and this IS a competitive team, not some kind of crazy gimmick that won't work most of the time. Don't get me wrong, I'd support creativity, but only if it's actually a good kind of creativity -- one that actually works well. In this case, Rock Smash is the kind of pure shit I'm talking about.

Anyways for Rock Smash, things with more power will force switches out easier than getting dropped defense, as 60 base power fighting moves don't really scare people that much, and if they predict a fighting move, they'd switch into something that could take a hit even from, say, Superpower. Even with lowered defense you can't do shit most of the time because you are locked in one move, which is why it's a bad option. Either keep Brick Break, or get Superpower. Either option is better than Rock Smash, who would force the least amount of switches.

Blissey has no business with Jirachi in the first place, so I don't really know where you're trying to say that Rock Smash would be better than Iron Head, when Iron Head is better in all cases and is threatening enough.

Snorlax on the other hand fears Iron Head way more than Rock Smash, so your point there is invalid too.

Numbuh 214 said:

True, but Superpower kind of ruins longevity plans for Scizor; all it can really do after one (or maybe two) Superpowers is switch out, lest it be slain by the opponent's own physical sweeper. It sucks that there isn't a decent power, 100% accurate Fighting move that doesn't have a drawback. Unless the physical sweeper in question has Close Combat, you either have to put up with the lackluster power/accuracy of Brick Break/Cross Chop or switch out after a use of Superpower.

Long story short (and small off-topic rant aside), each move has its pros and cons:

• Superpower is the most powerful and VERY good for hit-and-run, but lowers Attack AND Defense, leaving Scizor VERY open to revenge kills.
• Brick Break has a LOT less power, but Scizor can continue to use it so long as a resist doesn't pop in. It also pops Dual Screeners upside the head.
• Rock Smash gets a Technician boost and has a lovely switch-causing side effect, but is still the weakest of the three. (But, did you know it just got a power boost this generation?)

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Um, Scizor is supposed to hit and run?

The Screens are also getting more common in the metagame so running BB just to break screens are somewhat valid nowadays.

It's defense drop isn't so threatening as something as Superpower, which you said, was a hit and run move, which tend to be very powerful. Even with a Defense drop Scizor would hit harder with Superpower. The defense drop doesn't even matter most of the time anyways. The scenarios in which using Rock Smash is usable is also the time when Superpower/Brick Break is as well. And in those scenarios, Brick Break and Superpower are superior to Rock Smash.

If you had a blissey out and tried to rock smash, your opponent would predict BB/Superpower. You rock smash, and they switch to a fighting resist/etc. Even with a defense drop, they laugh at you. At that point they can either set up something or scare you off in the process. At least the latter can hit harder.

I think you have a bit of a mixup with how Scizor is played, because it IS a hit and run pokemon.

Celebi has not really been working out for me. It does allow me to go with SuperPower over Brick Break because I don't have to worry about Baton Pass chains, but it's just not enough to warrant Flygon, who sees excessive use, out of the team.

I've still kept the changes to Scizor and Infernape's new item, but I'm wondering if I should go with Perish Song on Kitsunoh to make up for Celebi?

cyberzero said:

but I'm wondering if I should go with Perish Song on Kitsunoh to make up for Celebi?

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you can always switch out EQ for it, since you have admitted to rarely using it and already have another EQ user how gets STAB on it.

I'm not so sure if CB Kitsunoh would even work with Perish Song. If you're thinking about dumping Celebi but keeping Perish Song, you either change your Kitsunoh's set or just play without it. CB Perish Song just doesn't work.

Plus said:

I'm not so sure if CB Kitsunoh would even work with Perish Song. If you're thinking about dumping Celebi but keeping Perish Song, you either change your Kitsunoh's set or just play without it. CB Perish Song just doesn't work.

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banded pokes aren't supposed to stay in long to begin with, so it can still work out

The purpose of Perish Song on Celebi was to actually phaze bulky waters. Perish Song Kitsunoh doesn't Phaze them as well as Celebi can, and cannot threaten incoming pokemon, since it is banded. Once your opponent figures out your Kitsunoh is banded, they will see no threat to it and it becomes neutral in terms of benefits. If CB Kitsunoh was to Perish Song, it would be forced to switch out, which the opponent knows, making either Kitsunoh easy bait if it chooses to stay in until Perish count 1, or they can predict what you will bring in next. The same holds true for the user of Perish Song, except they do not have the joy of attacking. As a result, CB Perish Song Kitsunoh will not work.