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Hi Dank,

I noticed that you have both Swampert and Scarf Flygon on the same team. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, Swampert is a great counter and check to many of the threats that Flygon is meant to revenge kill.

Since you have a major problem with Lead Roserade, and should really be using Leftovers on Swampert since it doesn't have any form of self recovery, try switching Swampert to your second slot and leading with Anti-Lead Metagross instead:


Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 236 HP / 228 Atk / 20 Def / 24 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion

This set can beat both Machamp and Roserade due to its Lum Berry and access to high powered attacks. Against the former, Meteor Mash twice, as No Guard ensures that your attacks as well as your opponent's will not miss. Against the latter, use either Earthquake or Meteor Mash, and then Bullet Punch. Explosion can be used later in the game against troublesome threats.

Metagross has problems against Heatran and Infernape leads, which Swampert does quite well against.

If you decide to go with this set as your lead, use Leftovers on Swampert for the recovery.

Blissey -Terrakion can set-up all over a Blissey without Thunder Wave. Gliscor can come in and Taunt it to stop it from healing itself.
Bronzong - Somewhat of a problem. Since it is generally used on Drizzle teams, Rotom-W can deliver a nice boosted Hydro Pump to it. If not in Rain, Salamence has Fire Blast for this guy.
Celebi - Scizor can Bullet Punch it and OHKO if its health is below around 75%. If not, Jirachi can paralyze it and Iron Head away.
Chansey - Terrakion can set-up all over a Blissey without Thunder Wave. Gliscor can come in and Taunt it to stop it from healing itself.
Dusclops - Gliscor can wear down any Dusclops without Ice Punch. If it carries Ice Punch, I would most likely go to Rotom-W because it isn't bothered as much by Will-O-Wisp.
Ferrothorn - Generally, Rotom-W will Will-O-Wisp it as it switches in, from there Gliscor can Taunt it, making it useless. Scizor can also almost OHKO with Superpower, and Terrakion can OHKO with Close Combat.
Forretress - Handled fairly easily by Gliscor due to Taunt. Salamence also carries the unexpected Fire Blast, which will roast it.

Gliscor - Rotom-W is a perfect counter to Gliscor. Gliscor always runs from Rotom-W, which gives it a chance to Will-O-Wisp the incoming Pokemon.

Hippowdon - Rotom-W, again, can cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, and can OHKO it with Hydro Pump. Terrakion can OHKO with a +2 Close Combat (assuming it switched in as Terrakion Swords Danced)

Jellicent - Rotom-W counters Jellicent excellently with its STAB Thunderbolt.

Latias - Jirachi is great for counter the Lati's. Jirachi can wall its STABs and Body Slam it so it is slower than Jirachi, then it can proceed to Iron Head it to death.

Ninetales - Terrakion threatens Ninetails with its STAB Stone Edge. Salamence also carrie Earthquake which hits Ninetails hard.

Politoed - Rotom-W likes facing this guy. He boost his STAB and can OHKO it with Thunderbolt

Porygon2 - Both Scizor and Terrakion carry powerful fighting moves that can take care of this thing.

Rotom-W - Rotom-W can be a bit of a pain. Usually I send in my Rotom-W to wear it down with Thunderbolt. After it is weak enough Terrakion can come in for the kill.

Sigilyph- Gliscor is immune to it's Pyshco Shift if Toxic Orb is activated, and can Taunt this thing to stop it from using Cosmic Power. Scizor can then come and Bullet Punch it to death, or Jirachi can Flinch it to death.

Skarmory - Gliscor stops it from setting up but can't do much besides that. 1 vs 1 Gliscor would eventually KO it though. Rotom-W scares it away, and Terrakion (Skarmory is a common switch in to Terrakion) can OHKO it after a Swords Dance.

Tentacruel - Gliscor can go kamikazee and Taunt it to prevent Toxic Spikes, but usually Rotom-W wears it down with Thunderbolt. (Toxic Spikes aren't really a threat to me)

Vaporeon - Rotom-W can Thunderbolt it, while taking all of its attacks relatively easily.

Whimsicott - This thing is frustrating. It can't really do much once Gliscor has Taunted it, after that Scizor can Bullet Punch freely.

DankDawson said:

Hmm. That would work pretty well. And if theres a Fire Blast Azelf lead I could just go to Heatran..
I also like the idea of being able to explode late game.
But Swampert usually dies to quickly from roaring leaving it unable check things later in the game that Flygon would be able to.
So would Swampert replace Flygon?
If so, wouldn't that leave me open to boosters such as DDance Gyara and Dnite?

Click to expand...

Swampert is one of the best checks to Dragonite in the game. Roaring is fine, but you only want to do it when it's safe. In other words, don't just let Swampert die if you can avoid it.

If Gyarados gets to be a problem, you could try out this Celebi set, which still hits pretty hard, but is also a good Gyarados check and team supporter:




Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/110 Def/112 SAtk/32 Spd
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Modest nature and the given EV's OHKO Scizor after Stealth Rock. Against enemy Gyarados, you can either use Thunder Wave, or Grass Knot, which 2HKO's them. Recover is also great as it lets you survive for longer to make use of Celebi's support.

You can alternatively use HP Electric on Heatran to revenge kill it.

Aerodactyl - Scizor can Bullet Punch Punch and OHKO while taking very little damage. Rotom-W can also OHKO it with Hydro Pump while being able to switch in easily.

Bisharp - Terrakion can very easily outspeed and OHKO it with its STAB Close Combat. Usually it can get a free set-up move as it switches. Gliscor can wall any physical attacks it can throw out.

Breloom - If Gliscor is already poisoned it is practically untouchable. If not, Jirachi can take the Spore and Scizor can Bullet Punch it to death.

Chandelure - Rotom-W resist one of its STABs and OHKO it with its STAB. Salamence can outspeed non-scarf versions and OHKO it with Earthqake.

Conkeldurr - Gliscor can Taunt it to prevent it from using Bulk Up and can wall its STAB. Rotom-W can hit it on its weaker special side and capatalize on that with its STABs. Jirachi can usually flinch it to death as well.

Darmanitan - Rotom-W resist its STAB and can OHKO it in return with Hydro Pump. Gliscor can wall its physical attacks and OHKO with Earthquake.

Deoxys-S - Scizor can hit with priority and can usually OHKO or 2HKO it. Jirachi can wall its special attacks and wear it down with Iron Head.

Dragonite - Gliscor can effectively wall it and KO it with Ice Fang. Scizor can OHKO if its health is only slightly above half. Terrakion can outspeed it and if Multiscale is broken it can OHKO with Stone Edge

Espeon -

Excadrill - Gliscor counters this thing wonderfully. Ice Fang pops balloon and Earthquake OHKO's. Rotom-W can also hit this mole with a STAB Hydro Pump and can survive a Rock Slide

Gengar - Scizors Bullet Punch or Pursuit can deal with Gengar relatively easily. If that fails, Rotom-W or Jirachi can slowly wear it down.

Gyarados - Rotom-W is a very reliable counter to Gyarados. Gyarados can't OHKO at +1, and Rotom-W can OHKO with Thunderbolt.

Haxorus - Scizor counters this easily, 1 or 2HKO. I'd imagine that if Scizor was gone, Jirachi could Body Slam + Iron Head. Salamence can Outrage as a last resort.

Heatran - Salamence can outspeed and OHKO with Earthquake. Rotom-W also threatens Heatran with Hydro Pump. Terrakion can OHKO with Close Combat.

Hydreigon - Terrakion can use this thing a set-up bait with its STAB Close Combat. Scizor can also do heavy damage with Bullet Punch.

Infernape - Rotom-W is great for dealing with this thing. Other then Rotom-W, I don't have any other checks to this thing, besides Scizor, who can finish off a weakend one.

Jirachi - Gliscor cannot be paralyzed if it is attempting to Body Slam, and can almost OHKO with Earthquake. If it is a Calm Mind Jirachi, I generally sacrafice Salamence with Earthquake.

Jolteon -

Kingdra -

Landorus -

Latios -

Lucario -

Machamp -

Magnezone -

Mamoswine -

Metagross -

Reuniclus -

Salamence -

Sawsbuck -

Scizor -

Scrafty-

Sigilyph -

Smeargle -

Starmie -

Terakion -

Thundurus -

Tornadus - Terrakion can hurt it with Stone Edge, if it is weakened enough, Scizor can KO. Jirachi can wall its special attacks.

Tyranitar - Every Pokemon on my team outruns this thing, and has a super effective move against it. Most notably Terrakion as it likes the Sand.

Venusaur - Jirachi can bring it into OHKO range for Scizor.

Victini - This thing is so annoying. Rotom-W can hurt, but under the sun it doesn't OHKO. Scizor can finish it off if Rotom-W couldn't.

Virizion - Jirachi can wall it if it is Special. If Physical, Gliscor doesn't mind this thing at all.

Volcarona - Volcarona is terrified of Terrakions Stone Edge, which gives Terrakion a free set up turn.

Weavile - Scizor is a very solid counter to Weavile. Terrakion can KO a CB Weavile, but must watch out for Low Kick. Rotom-W resist one of its STABs and can OHKO or Burn.

Zoroark - Terrakion rips right through Zoroark with Close Combat. Scizor can finsih off a weakened one, and Jirachi being the Special tank it is can handle it.

xD Wow.
I thought I changed all the male remarks to female.
It suddenly came to me today that Flygon is a girl not a boy, so I attempted to change most of it.

But I failed. I am sorry Eric.
xD That was funny Eric.

thanks for reading it though! :P

and thanks for the very helpful comment.

No more responses? :(
I need help guys! Anything at all would be useful.
Pleeaaaassseeee!
Don't hesitate to respond :D

Nice team.

Leaf Storm > Grass Knot on Celebi -- gets rid of CM Suicune and Machamp more easily than Grass Knot, and it is generally a better move on Life Orb sets.

Place Recover over Psychic on Celebi. It gets worn down quickly by entry hazards/Breloom's Focus Punch, and you want a way to heal.

Make Swampert a Lum Berry Metagross lead, because Swampert sucks as a lead. Use the set Faladran posted.

As for Snorlax, honestly I would use a bulky mixed wall Lax. Curselax suffers from severe 4 moveslot syndrome, and it doesn't really work like it did in Advance because now Trick is much more common.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat

Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD
-Body Slam
-Whirlwind
-Rest
-Sleep Talk


This Snorlax is so great because it can switch into pretty much any attack and Whirlwind the threat out.

As for Kingdra or Gyarados, I think I would honestly use Gyarados, seeing how weak this team is to Mixape.

Good luck!

Thanks Mario c:
When you do your full rate, can you let me know if I should go with Kingdra or Gyarados? (I'm thinking Gyarados, as it can take fighting hits)
And Snorlax or Tyranitar? (I'm not sure.. Tyranitar can take rock hits aimed at Gyarados if I chose it, and set up in the process,
but Snorlax is simply amazing. It has rest and awesome bulk to last long enough to take all the oppenents remaining pokemon.)
I also need help on Snorlax's moveset.
I need to have Body Slam, Rest, Curse, and the fourth slot is open for any attack move that isn't fighting as I need to hit ghost.
Maybe Crunch? Thunder/Ice/Fire punch? Zen Headbutt? Seed Bomb? Rock Slide?
Those are all the considerable moves that he learns that could fill the 4th spot.
Thunderpunch and Bodyslam would hit everything in Ou except magnezone for nuetral coverage...
If you do come back and rate this, I really appreciate it, and thanks.

Ok. Thanks Mario, I'll go try all those out.
I'll probably go with Bulky Gyara, and keep Snorlax.

I'd keep Chesto Rest Kingdra, and if you really want to counter Ghosts, give Snoralx Crunch.

I chose thunderpunch for better overall coverage.

Hi DankDawson, this is a pretty solid team.

However I see a couple of problems. Firstly, Celebi is your only fighting-resist and with Pokemon like Aerodactyl and Snorlax baiting fighting-types like Lucario and Machamp to come in quite comfortably, your team could be put under some pressure by those two Pokemon. On top of this, your Celebi has no form of recovery and you are running no HP investment. Because of Snorlax's gargantuan HP stat, Leech Seed Shaymin will generally beat it, so long as it gets 1-2 SpDef drops, so you really want a second way to combat this Pokemon. Heatran also will be wittled down quickly and once your opponent knows its Scarf, yuou won't be getting any surprise kills on offensive Shaymin. I think a bulkier Celebi with recovery is the best option.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Modest | Natural Cure
EVs: 196 HP / 112 SpAtk / 220 Spe
Grass Knot / Thunder Wave / Hidden power [Fire] / Recover

This Celebi will outrun Adamant Lucario and will be able to do a sizeable chunk with Hidden Power [Fire] or paralyse it and also will outrun offensive Suicune allowing you to deal with it appropriately. With the HP investment, Celebi will be able to sponge most attacks from fighting-types such as Breloom and Machamp.

I am really unsure about the dual-scarfers on this team, and personally I would like you to try a Mixed Flygon. Mixed Flygon will help incredibly well with luring out and disposing of threats to Snorlax. Skarmory will come in on Flygon and believe it can set up Spikes for free, until you Fire Blast it. Pokemon such as Swampert and the occasional Machamp switch-ins get battered by Draco Meteor and Flygon will also work very well at luring out and disposing/weakening Kingdra's counters such as Skarmory, Rotom, Swampert and other steels looking to tank the Outrage.

Flygon @ Life Orb
Naive | Levitate
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 180 Spe
Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Earthquake / Roost

By removing the Scarf on Flygon you become slightly open to Dragon Dance Dragonite, but if you follow my other suggestions it will have no room to set-up, except against Heatran although Dragonite will fall after Stealth Rock, 2 Fire Blasts and Life Orb recoil. Defensive variants you have to be slightly more wary about.

Good luck!

I'll be sure to give all of that a try.
Who then would take care of Machamp leads?
Thank you for the rating.

I like the Flygon so far.

use the lead metagross faladran said to take care of lead machamp and get rid of flygon and replace with swampert with leftovers to stop set up sweepers by roaring their boosts away, swampert gives you an electric immunity that flygon gave before