...
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Overdrive is Posting a Team!? No Way, You are Obviously Getting Trolled!
- Thread starter Overdrive213
- Start date
Threats
-Stall
-Mixed Dragonite
Hi OD, this is a cool team. It does have its problems though.
First off, stall teams will pretty much walk all over you. Skarmory or Forretress easily set up Spikes on Flygon and Metagross, making it hell for you to switch. You don't really have the power to bust through a standard stall team of Hippowdon / Forretress / Rotom-A / Gyarados / Blissey / filler, as you use a different Pokemon to kill each of them, meaning the opposing team can simply switch between walls as it pleases. Since stall teams are all over the place nowadays, this is definitely a problem. The other major threat I see is Mixed Dragonite. Its power and coverage absolutely tears through you - it can switch in on any of Ape's attacks, and once Metagross dies (which will most likely be the case, seeing as it's a lead), you have nothing to switch in to Draco Meteor, meaning a smart player who pairs it with a Rapid Spinner (think Starmie) can switch in and out, picking off your Pokemon one-by-one. To fix this, I think you should make a couple of changes; mixed Flygon over your Scarf set, HeaTrap over your Shaymin, and an offensive Rapid Spin set on Starmie.
First off, mixed Flygon nearly beats stall on its own - it 2HKOs everything not named Hippowdon, who can not do anything back to it whatsoever, while you can Roost off damage whenever you deem it necessary. Gyarados / Rotom are taken out by a couple Draco Meteors after Stealth Rock; Forretress is roasted by Fire Blast; Blissey is 2HKO'd after rocks by EQ. MixGon is also a force against offensive teams - common switchins such as Gliscor and Scarf / Specs Rotom-A are surprise killed by two Draco Meteors. Another benefit it brings is the ability to revenge kill MixNite without having to lock itself into Outrage - you will get many KOs on it like this, them expecting you to U-turn out, knowing you'll be met with a steel if you Outrage.
Next, HeaTrap. It is basically a slower, but more bulky and powerful version of MixGon in how it helps you beat stall. It also helps against MixNite because you can send it in to sponge the Draco Meteor thanks to its steel typing, pivoting into Rotom on the Earthquake / Superpower, who can take it on 1-on-1 once its SpA has been cut (if you see it has EQ, you can also pivot into Flygon; if you see it has Superpower, Starmie is a good choice). The way it beats stall is by creating holes the rest of your team exploits. You send it in on Forretress, for example. Stall's primary switch is Gyarados, because they do not want their Blissey to get surprise Exploded on. You trap them with Magma Storm and surprise KO them with HP Electric; that is the main threat to your Infernape dead. Later, you come in on Forretress again; this time you trap Blissey, Taunt it to stop Protect, and then Explode, leaving a clear path for your Infernape to sweep with Close Combat once Flygon draws out Rotom-A and nails it with Draco Meteor.
Lastly, I think you should try Hydro Pump and Rapid Spin on Starmie over Surf and Recover. Star isn't the bulkiest thing around, and most of the time, when you get a chance to Recover, you'll find yourself wishing you had gotten a spin off or launched an attack to severely dent something. Stall has a very hard time stopping LO Starmie without losing all of its hazards, as Hydro Pump 2HKOs Rotom-A and then you can Spin freely.
tl;dr
-Mix Flygon > Scarf Flygon
-HeaTrap > Shaymin
-Hydro Pump+Rapid Spin > Surf+Recover on Starmie
Sets
Good luck.
-Stall
-Mixed Dragonite
Hi OD, this is a cool team. It does have its problems though.
First off, stall teams will pretty much walk all over you. Skarmory or Forretress easily set up Spikes on Flygon and Metagross, making it hell for you to switch. You don't really have the power to bust through a standard stall team of Hippowdon / Forretress / Rotom-A / Gyarados / Blissey / filler, as you use a different Pokemon to kill each of them, meaning the opposing team can simply switch between walls as it pleases. Since stall teams are all over the place nowadays, this is definitely a problem. The other major threat I see is Mixed Dragonite. Its power and coverage absolutely tears through you - it can switch in on any of Ape's attacks, and once Metagross dies (which will most likely be the case, seeing as it's a lead), you have nothing to switch in to Draco Meteor, meaning a smart player who pairs it with a Rapid Spinner (think Starmie) can switch in and out, picking off your Pokemon one-by-one. To fix this, I think you should make a couple of changes; mixed Flygon over your Scarf set, HeaTrap over your Shaymin, and an offensive Rapid Spin set on Starmie.
First off, mixed Flygon nearly beats stall on its own - it 2HKOs everything not named Hippowdon, who can not do anything back to it whatsoever, while you can Roost off damage whenever you deem it necessary. Gyarados / Rotom are taken out by a couple Draco Meteors after Stealth Rock; Forretress is roasted by Fire Blast; Blissey is 2HKO'd after rocks by EQ. MixGon is also a force against offensive teams - common switchins such as Gliscor and Scarf / Specs Rotom-A are surprise killed by two Draco Meteors. Another benefit it brings is the ability to revenge kill MixNite without having to lock itself into Outrage - you will get many KOs on it like this, them expecting you to U-turn out, knowing you'll be met with a steel if you Outrage.
Next, HeaTrap. It is basically a slower, but more bulky and powerful version of MixGon in how it helps you beat stall. It also helps against MixNite because you can send it in to sponge the Draco Meteor thanks to its steel typing, pivoting into Rotom on the Earthquake / Superpower, who can take it on 1-on-1 once its SpA has been cut (if you see it has EQ, you can also pivot into Flygon; if you see it has Superpower, Starmie is a good choice). The way it beats stall is by creating holes the rest of your team exploits. You send it in on Forretress, for example. Stall's primary switch is Gyarados, because they do not want their Blissey to get surprise Exploded on. You trap them with Magma Storm and surprise KO them with HP Electric; that is the main threat to your Infernape dead. Later, you come in on Forretress again; this time you trap Blissey, Taunt it to stop Protect, and then Explode, leaving a clear path for your Infernape to sweep with Close Combat once Flygon draws out Rotom-A and nails it with Draco Meteor.
Lastly, I think you should try Hydro Pump and Rapid Spin on Starmie over Surf and Recover. Star isn't the bulkiest thing around, and most of the time, when you get a chance to Recover, you'll find yourself wishing you had gotten a spin off or launched an attack to severely dent something. Stall has a very hard time stopping LO Starmie without losing all of its hazards, as Hydro Pump 2HKOs Rotom-A and then you can Spin freely.
tl;dr
-Mix Flygon > Scarf Flygon
-HeaTrap > Shaymin
-Hydro Pump+Rapid Spin > Surf+Recover on Starmie
Sets
Flygon @ Life Orb | Naive | EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Draco Meteor | Fire Blast | Earthquake | Roost
Draco Meteor | Fire Blast | Earthquake | Roost
Heatran @ Shuca Berry | Mild | EVs: 216 SpA / 216 Spe / 80 HP
Magma Storm | Hidden Power Electric | Taunt | Explosion
Magma Storm | Hidden Power Electric | Taunt | Explosion
Good luck.
I never had a problem with stall while running this team but that's most because I'm a wi-fi player. I know that you mostly play on simulators like PO and stall is alot more common on those. I hesitate to change my team just for something that I most likely won't see. Anyways, Shaymin is my one way of dealing with stall as it can hit most members on a common stall team quite well. Leech Seed + Seed Flare's chance of lowering special defense can usually let me break through walls like Blissey. I used to have HP [Fire] to fry Skarm and Scizor but changed it as I knew that D-Nite was a pain. Just like you mentioned. I will replace Recover on Starmie for Rapid Spin but I get haxed enough and don't wanna have to worry about H-Pump missing.
Your current FWG core rapes stall. The only change I would make is putting stone edge on infernape to catch an incoming gyarados, opening up room for an Infernape sweep.
I also think Infernape would be better with a life orb on this team, as it would prefer the freedom.
Infernape@ Life orb
252 attack/64 special attack/192 speed
Hasty
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone edge
- Mach Punch
CC + filler wrecks quit a few Infernape checks and with rapid spin support the life orb recoil won't hurt as much.
EDIT: Its more common to lead with Starmie and have Metagross as the secondary lead. So you could try that out.
I also think Infernape would be better with a life orb on this team, as it would prefer the freedom.
Infernape@ Life orb
252 attack/64 special attack/192 speed
Hasty
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone edge
- Mach Punch
CC + filler wrecks quit a few Infernape checks and with rapid spin support the life orb recoil won't hurt as much.
EDIT: Its more common to lead with Starmie and have Metagross as the secondary lead. So you could try that out.
I'm not worred about Gyarados simply because I have Rotom to wall it, Starmie can take a hit if its not at +1 and has Bounce, and Flygon can also outspeed it. I originally had a LO Ape but changed it to CB after seeing how well it worked on some other teams. I might change it back if I feel the need for more freedom.
Ah but even if you double switch to Rotom or Starmie the Gyarados is still there. If you take it out with Infernape, then its gone and Infernape is free to sweep.
I think it would work better on this team.
I'm just saying that Gyarados isn't a huge threat and I dont' feel the need to change a moveslot like on Infernape for something that I don't think will hurt me much.
I would add Hydro Pump on Starmie and use it as a lead. It starts off the match offensively and makes it harder for Skarmory / Forretress to set up on you, which is useful considering your team is pretty susceptible to entry hazards. You could also go with Lum Metagross since it works well with Starmie and helps against Machamp and sleep leads.
Starmie can Hydro Pump Azelf down to its Focus Sash and then hope that it wins the speed tie to finish Azelf off with Rapid Spin and get rid of Stealth Rock at the same time. If Azelf is a dual screener, Starmie needs to hope that it wins the speed tie and Hydro Pump before Azelf Light Screens.
A smart Aerodactyl user will Rock Slide first turn, hoping to get the flinch and allowing the 2HKO on Starmie before Starmie can spin away Stealth Rock. For this reason, it is best to switch to Metagross immediately. Metagross resists Rock Slide and can then Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch, while Starmie can Rapid Spin away Stealth Rock later. If Aerodactyl Stealth Rocks on the switch, it will usually Taunt Metagross to prevent Stealth Rock from being put up, allowing Metagross to KO with Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch anyway. Metagross is also able to survive Aerodactyl's Earthquake.
Starmie matches up well with Swampert, 2HKOing Swampert with Hydro Pump, meaning that Swampert has to choose between doing damage to Starmie or using Stealth Rock, which can be spun away later.
Starmie handles Metagross the same way it handles Swampert: by forcing it to choose between doing damage and getting up Stealth Rock before being KOed. It is worth noting that not even a Earthquake + Bullet Punch + two turns of Life Orb damage will beat Starmie, allowing it to come back in and spin later.
Fearing a Choice Scarfed U-turn, I find it best to switch immediately to Metagross, who has the bulk to take just about any attack from Jirachi. Meanwhile, you can Earthquake Jirachi for major damage or get Stealth Rock up.
Starmie matches up much better with Infernape than Metagross, being able to Hydro Pump Infernape down to its Focus Sash and then Rapid Spin away the Stealth Rock.
Machamp will use Payback, so it is best to switch straight to Metagross, as Payback and DynamicPunch will not beat Metagross. Metagross can take a DynamicPunch while its Lum Berry cures it of its confusion, allowing Meteor Mash to 2HKO Machamp, which thanks to No Guard, will never miss.
Lead Roserade usually Leaf Storm a lead Starmie, so it is best to switch to Metagross, who resists the Grass-type attacks. Metagross can then beat Roserade with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch, while Lum Berry renders Sleep Powder useless.
This is one time you will wish you led with Metagross instead. A risky match-up, since if Starmie switches out while Tyranitar Pursuits, Starmie is dead for nothing. I find that Starmie is usually too important to sacrifice for a little damage and that lead Tyranitar with Pursuit are rare enough, so I often switch out to Metagross, which beats Tyranitar quite nicely with a super effective Meteor Mash.
Starmie is a very deadly opposing lead for Gliscor, as it can hit all switch-ins hard if the Gliscor user mispredicts. I find it best to Hydro Pump first, as that does the most damage in case a Tyranitar or Scizor is switched in. Another lead that Starmie fares better against than Metagross.
Starmie frightens Heatran, as it can OHKO Heatran with Hydro Pump. Again, Starmie fares better against Heatran than Metagross does.
You seem to lack a solid switch-in to Fire attacks. Starmie is frail and doesn't last long, and neither Infernape nor Flygon does a good job of switching directly into the likes of Heatran's attacks. One thing you could do is replace Flygon with a Dragonite and make Rotom your scarfed revenge killer instead, preferably with a Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Hydro Pump / Trick set with the Wash forme. Either BulkyDD or MixNite would probably be a good choice, as both are quite threatening and carry Roost for longevity. MixNite especially is good against stall, but as this is for wi-fi it may be less of a concern.
I have put Starmie in the lead position with Metagross to back it up and have replaced Starmie with Kingdra while giving Rotom-W a Choice Scarf so that it can act as my revenge killer.