Tangrowth [GP 2/2]

Tangrowth

[Overview]

<p>With defensive stats that rival the likes of Skarmory, Tangrowth is among the sturdiest physical walls in the game. With the introduction of Dream World abilities, Tangrowth received a fantastic ability in Regenerator, further increasing its defensive capabilities. It is no slouch offensively either, boasting above-average Attack and Special Attack, boosting moves such as Swords Dance and Growth, and a fairly extensive movepool. Tangrowth is burdened with a terrible Speed stat however, and this can make sweeping with Tangrowth incredibly hard, even with a boost from Chlorophyll. While sweeping may be out of the question, Tangrowth excels in what it was made to do in RU: tank.</p>

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Giga Drain / Power Whip
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Bold / Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is Tangrowth's standard defensive set, functioning as a very effective tank that can switch in and out multiple times thanks to Regenerator. Sleep Powder is invaluable on almost every team, and Tangrowth makes great use of it with the number of switches it forces. As Tangrowth has solid offensive stats, it has two main options for its choice of STAB move. Giga Drain is a great choice because it provides extra healing which, in conjunction with Regenerator, greatly improves Tangrowth's longevity. It is also 100% accurate and can break Aggron's Substitutes among others. Giga Drain also lets Tangrowth beat physical attackers such as Feraligatr, Hitmonlee, and Medicham without losing too much health overall, and then be able to switch out to a teammate and be back to nearly full health. Power Whip, on the other hand, is slightly less accurate but will hit harder in general. Cryogonal and Slowking are hit much harder by Power Whip, and it will break 252/252 +SpD Gallade's Substitutes, unlike Giga Drain. Hidden Power Fire provides good coverage with a STAB Grass-type move, hitting opposing Grass-types that think they can switch into Tangrowth for decent damage, as well as Klinklang. It also stops Ferroseed from setting up Spikes on Tangrowth. Leech Seed is a fantastic move for Tangrowth, letting it wear down the opponent and recover HP simultaneously, not to mention it works fantastically in conjunction with Giga Drain. Leech Seed should also be Tangrowth's go-to move after Sleep Clause has been activated with Sleep Powder. The extra healing from Leech Seed on a Fire- or Steel-type opponent such as Entei makes it that much easier for a teammate, such as Alomomola, to take out the opponent.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The given EV spread provides the absolute maximum physical bulk possible, and Tangrowth has very little use for anything else on a defensive set. As for the choice of nature, Relaxed should be used with Power Whip so as not to lower Tangrowth's Attack stat, while Bold should be used with Giga Drain. Leftovers is the default item on such a defensive set, providing consistent recovery to increase Tangrowth's lifespan. Fire-types such as Moltres love to switch into Tangrowth, and as such Hidden Power Rock can be used to catch them as they switch in. However, Sleep Powder can achieve the same goal while still letting Tangrowth use Hidden Power Fire. Earthquake can be used to hit Poison- and Steel-types, in particular Drapion and Aggron. Finally, Substitute can be used in combination with Leech Seed, but Tangrowth lacks the Speed to pull this off effectively, despite having 101 HP Substitutes.</p>

<p>Tangrowth has an abysmal Special Defense stat, so anything that can take those attacks for it is a useful teammate. Slowking makes a great partner because of its excellent synergy and it forms an effective Regenerator core with Tangrowth. However, the duo must be wary of Bug-type attacks, particularly from Galvantula and Accelgor, making Audino a great partner to complete the Regenerator core and provide extra healing with Wish. Similarly, any Pokemon with low Defense will make a good partner for Tangrowth, in particular Munchlax, Lanturn, and Cryogonal, thanks to their fantastic Special Defense. Cryogonal can use Rapid Spin to get rid of any entry hazards that may trouble the defensive core, while Munchlax can take advantage of any hazards set up by shuffling the opponent's team. A defensive core such as Tangrowth and Slowking will naturally cause many switches, so Stealth Rock and Spikes will greatly improve its effectiveness. Uxie, Sandslash, and Qwilfish can all effectively set up these entry hazards.</p>

<p>Roselia and Clefable make hard stops to this Tangrowth set, easily absorbing all of Giga Drain, Hidden Power Fire, and Leech Seed. Roselia doesn't even care about Sleep Powder thanks to Natural Cure and can retaliate with a powerful STAB Sludge Bomb or set up Spikes. Because of these threats a powerful physical attacker, such as Entei and Aggron, can make a fantastic teammate to smash through them. Bouffalant and Sawsbuck are also of great concern as they are immune to all of Tangrowth's attacks save for Hidden Power Fire (which doesn't deal nearly enough damage to either one) and easily set up Swords Dance and break through Tangrowth's team. Therefore a backup physical wall, such as Cofagrigus, or a fast revenge killer, such as Primeape or Hitmonlee, would be a good idea to include on your team to combat these threats.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Hidden Power Rock
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
ability: Regenerator
nature: Modest:
evs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Though primarily used as a physically bulky tank, Tangrowth also has excellent attacking stats, and in conjunction with Regenerator, it can make a great offensive Pokemon. STAB Leaf Storm coming off 110 base Special Attack is incredibly powerful, and will put large dents into even those that resist it. Focus Blast can destroy the Steel-types that would otherwise be able to take Leaf Storm reliably, such as Ferroseed. Hidden Power Rock provides good coverage with the other two moves, hitting Fire-types and particularly Moltres that can otherwise switch in easily. Sleep Powder is highly useful on this set, as it allows Tangrowth to essentially remove one of its counters from the game. Sleep Powder can be used even with Choice Specs, as Tangrowth will likely be switching out immediately after using it anyway, and switching out really only helps Tangrowth by regaining more health.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread allows Tangrowth to outspeed minimum Speed Lanturn, factoring in the drop in Speed from Hidden Power Rock. An alternative spread with 168 Speed EVs can be used to outspeed minimum Speed Magneton and Poliwrath. Choice Specs is generally the preferred item, as Tangrowth normally only needs to use Leaf Storm then switch out. It places greater emphasis on accurate predictions, however, so Life Orb can be used for this reason; you should be wary of when to use Leaf Storm with Life Orb, though. Regenerator works really well on an offensive set, allowing Tangrowth to switch in and out multiple times and tank many neutral hits with its excellent natural Bulk. Giga Drain is an option to be used alongside Leaf Storm for more reliable damage output and healing, but the coverage moves listed and Sleep Powder are usually better choices. Hidden Power Fire can be used instead of Hidden Power Rock in order to hit Grass-types, particularly Roselia, much harder, though it still won't guarantee a 2HKO without Stealth Rock support.</p>

<p>Sap Sipper users are great checks to offensive Tangrowth, especially if it is using Choice Specs. Even though a timely Focus Blast can get rid of them, a Fighting-type teammate such as Medicham can help in breaking the opponent's team down in conjunction with Tangrowth. Roselia is a real pain to this set, being able to switch in safely against anything but a Choice Specs-boosted Hidden Power Fire. Moltres makes a great offensive partner because of this, easily being able to take care of Roselia and other Fire types; in return, Tangrowth can eliminate Lanturn and Slowking for Moltres to sweep. Slowking can make a great partner with an offensive set of its own, due to their excellent synergy. A Choice Specs Regenerator core with Tangrowth and Slowking is very powerful and can destroy almost everything between them.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Chlorophyll is a really useful ability, patching up Tangrowth's subpar Speed while in the sun. Tangrowth has the distinct advantage of being a lot bulkier than the other sun sweepers, and it also gets Growth to bolster its excellent mixed stats. However, it really struggles to sweep even with the Speed boost, as many common Choice Scarf users, such as Manectric and Galvantula, will outspeed and KO it. Tangrowth's support movepool is fairly extensive, and other options such as Knock Off and Stun Spore can be used to disrupt the opposing team. A possible double powder set with Sleep Powder and Stun Spore can be very effective. Alternatively, Tangrowth can use Reflect to support its teammates. A Swords Dance set could be effective, but Tangrowth's poor Speed leaves a lot to be desired. Access to Sunny Day means Tangrowth could make a decent Sunny Day setter, especially with Sleep Powder. However, it shares a number of weaknesses with the main sun sweepers, and Uxie generally does a better job, being able to use Yawn and U-turn.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>The best way to defeat Tangrowth is to prey on its much weaker Special Defense stat. Moltres and Charizard can easily switch in and KO Tangrowth, provided they avoid Sleep Powder. Despite not being specially-based, Entei can do the same with its Choice Band-boosted Flare Blitz and also cripple Tangrowth's defensive partner, Slowking, with Toxic. Accelgor is a great switch-in as well, resisting Grass-type moves and threatening Tangrowth with a powerful Bug Buzz. Certain defensive Pokemon can easily put a full stop to Tangrowth, particularly Roselia and Clefable, which are able to take any attack from Tangrowth (except Choice Specs Hidden Power Fire in Roselia's case). Weezing is an effective check to the defensive sets, but cannot stand up to repeated Leaf Storms from an offensive set. Pokemon with the Sap Sipper ability also carve out a particular niche in beating Tangrowth, and both Bouffalant and Sawsbuck do this with great efficiency.</p>

As someone who's played with Tangrowth a ton lately, I can assure you that Giga Drain should be slashed before Power Whip. Sure Power Whip gets the hit on Cryogonal on the switch, but that's about it. The extra recovery is exactly what makes Tangrowth so beastly, as it can continually switch in, heal up, and switch out and heal up if you mispredict thanks to Regenerator, not to mention throwing around Leech Seed as well.

It also does one huge thing for Tangrowth that Power Whip doesn't: it has perfect accuracy, which is huge when playing with Tangrowth, as the last thing you want to do is miss your Grass attack, even though it isn't *that* big of deal thanks to Regenerator, it also makes it so you don't have to throw your teammates into the fray as often. Not to mention that Giga Drain lets Tangrowth easily beat down on Feraligatr, Aggron (who's Subs you break with Giga Drain), Hitmonlee, Medicham, etc., and other users of Ice Punch and stuff without losing any health in the process.

In short, Giga Drain just has so much more utility than Power Whip.

Even though I run HP Fire on Tangrowth, I'm beginning to think that HP Ice should get the main slash, so that you can get at least a neutral hit on stuff like Moltres and hit other Flying-types for super effective damage while retaining the super effective hit on other Grass-types save for Ferroseed.

When talking about counters to the tank set be sure to mention Clefable, Roselia, and Entei, as they all really have their way with Tangrowth, and the former two don't necessarily care about Slowking either if you're using a Regenerator core (and Entei can throw Toxic at Slowking too).

Will probably comment more later

Dingo Reinhart said:

[*]Choice of Hidden Power is dependent on what Tangrowth needs to hit. Hidden Power Rock hits Moltres and other Fire-types that can easily switch in. Fire hits Ferroseed and Roselia, who would otherwise be pretty big issues.

Click to expand...

Just saying that this isn't really true.

252SpAtk Choice Specs Tangrowth (+SAtk) Focus Blast vs 252HP/4SpDef Eviolite Ferroseed (Neutral): 99% - 117% (290 - 342 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 96% chance to OHKO.

So with Stealth Rock Focus Blast is a guaranteed KO against standard Ferroseed (this is the main spread on the analysis) and without it it still has a 96% chance to OHKO.

As for a 252 HP / 252 SpD Sassy spread:

252SpAtk Choice Specs Tangrowth (+SAtk) Focus Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Eviolite Ferroseed (+SpDef): 69% - 82% (204 - 240 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Choice Specs Tangrowth (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 252HP/252SpDef Eviolite Ferroseed (+SpDef): 80% - 95% (236 - 280 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Both 2HKO, and neither gets the KO after Stealth Rock. Though obviously relying on Focus Blast hitting twice isn't exactly reliable, but still.

OK I agree with Giga Drain being the main slash, updated the OP accordingly.

I'm not too sure about HP Ice, considering you are then incabable of touching Klinkling if it gets a sub up. Ferroseed setting up Spikes for free (as long as something else gets hit by Sleep Powder) is also pretty big. I feel it should go along HP Rock in AC, but thats just me.

Cleared up Tomahawks point about Ferroseed, the point it you can use HP Fire to hit Ferro without locking yourself into the much less reliable Focus Blast.

Thanks for the comments so far.

Just a quick comment.

Ferroseed, other Tangrowth and Roselia will all wall Tangrowths defensive sets without HP Fire

Click to expand...

Roselia walls Tangrowth even if it has HP Fire.

4 SpA Bold Leftovers Tangrowth HP Fire vs 252/252 Calm Eviolite Roselia: 20.4% - 24.4%.

The best it can muster is a 5HKO, giving Roselia plenty of time to Rest up. Even on the offensive set:

252 SpA Modest Choice Specs Tangrowth HP Fire vs 252/252 Calm Eviolite Roselia 40.8% - 48.7%
252 SpA Modest Life Orb Tangrowth HP Fire vs 252/252 Calm Eviolite Roselia 36.2% - 42.8%

Good chance to 2HKO after rocks on the Specs set but no chance on the LO set. So Roselia is basically a fullstop to Tangrowth.

252 SpA Modest Choice Specs Tangrowth HP Fire vs 252/252 Calm Eviolite Roselia 40.8% - 48.7%

That calc alone says to me Roselia is not a full stop but I will clear up the ambiguity about the defensive sets.

Roselia can also threaten the OHKO with Sludge Bomb while also Resting off HP Fire damage. In regards to Hidden Power keep it Fire as the primary slash on the first set imo becuase on of the many draws of using Growth is beating klinklang most of the time and losing out on that isnt worth lightly hitting Moltres imo. Chances are if you use Tangrowth you use a Moltres check anyway (Slowking/Lanturn/etc) so missing out on that 20% or w/e isnt a huge deal.

Looks good otherwise.

QC APPROVED 1/3

Be sure to mention that a perk that Power Whip has over Giga Drain is breaking 252/252 +SpD SubBU Gallade's Subs before it gets any boosts.

Also yeah I guess I agree with HP Fire to nail Klinklang.

Be sure to mention Bouffalant and Sawsbuck as counters to the tank set as well, HP Fire doesn't do nearly enough to Sawsbuck, and it can then easily set up with Swords Dance and blow right past Tangrowth, especially if it switched in on a Grass attack and got a Sap Sipper boost. Also mention Mandibuzz as a counter sans switching into Sleep Powder.

For teammates be sure to add physical defensively-weak Pokemon and phazers like Munchlax, Cryogonal, Lanturn, Mandibuzz, etc. as general good partners to use alongside the Regenerator core. Cyrogonal also provides Rapid Spin support for the core, and Munchlax can further abuse any entry hazards you set up on the opponent's side of the field with Whirlwind. And of course, Spikes and Stealth Rock on the opponent's side of the field further abuses the Regen core, so Qwilfish, Sandslash, and Uxie make good partners too.

One thing that you've completely neglected mentioning is Substitute. Often enough the threat of Sleep Powder is all you need with Tangrowth, and setting up Substitutes is ridiculously easy due to the fact that Tangrowth walls most physical attackers in the metagame. Tangrowth is one of the best SubSeeders in the tier, due to its 101 HP Substitutes and Regenerator, which can let you regain all that you lost from Substitute and more.

I also think that a mixed Chlorophyll set with Growth deserves to be on-site, since Tangrowth is arguably the best sun sweeper in the tier since it's fast in the sun, with great bulk and mixed attacking stats that leave it almost impossible to wall.

I've actually mentioned Substitute in the AC of the tank set in conjunction with Leech Seed. Idk about you but I always feel like Tangrowth has something better to do, since you either have to sacrifice HP Fire or Sleep Powder, meaning it can become set up fodder for a lot of pokemon. It deserves a mention for sure, but a slash I'm not sure about.

As for Chlorophyll, I really don't think its worth it. A lot of teams nowadays carry a scarfer capable of outspeeding Omastar, which means they will also outspeed Tangrowth, limiting its effectiveness a lot. I honestly feel its outclassed by Sawsbuck, Victrebell and Exeggutor, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Adding Oglemi's changes to the OP now.

Alright made those changes.

QC APPROVED 2/3

QC APPROVED 3/3

OK this will be written over the weekend.

I'm assuming this is ready for GP checks, as it's fully written.


1/2

Yep I posted in the GP thread, go for it.

Thanks New World Order, implemented that check (apart from in OO where I randomly said fast and meant to say bulk).

Ready for number two.

Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments





GP 2 / 2

Second check implemented, this is now done.

Overall I was pretty disappointed with the lack of detail in the analysis, especially when I spelled out what to add in my posts. Don't be afraid to actually list specificities and go into detail. It's easier to cut out too much information than to add missing info.

anyway, uploaded