Problematic (Current #1 PO)

Sup I'm [IMP]Problems, Its been a while since I've posted a RMT this is my first post on Smogon so there's probably going to be a couple of mistakes as I've tried as well as I can explaining things and haven't really bothered to read this through.

Ever since the Lati and Ho-oh release the meta for UBERS has completely changed, making most of my old teams not as viable as before as certain stuff couldn't deal with the big threats.. So after a bit of thinking I threw these things together which were based around my favorite play style at the moment which is rain stall and this is how it all turned out.

I'm pretty much finished laddering with this team for now so I thought that I would share it with you guys as I've built a new team ready for Genesect release. After playing this team about I've reached #1 a couple of times and have currently a few accounts on page 1 on the PO BETA server..



(19:55:19) ±Porygon: Your rank in Wifi Ubers is 1/12073 [1535 points / 126 battles]! - Loads of battles due to bs on the ladder but all in all pretty happy with it

Anyway..





To pretty much sum up this team its pretty solid but it does have a couple of weaknesses;

- Well played ho-ohs
- Sub CM/SD Arceus if I've played terribly around them
- Dragon Spam
- Arceus Steel

Importable


I'll post a proper threat list when I get the time..

Its really just a standard Rain team with some minor changes to help out in certain situations, but it really gets the job done.. Pretty straight forward to use and understand. This is my third RMT so I hope i've not made to many mistakes. Just pm me on PO server or comment on this post if you've any questions or problems, regards.

P.S. Sorry for the retarded massive pictures and my poor effort at trying to make this RMT presentable I'm terrible on forums..

Hi Problems, nice team you got there. I love RestTalk Kyogre with Roar, props for using it. Also i like that more people start realizing how good D-tail, and phazing in general is (i run an offensive team, and i have 3 phazers), as it's one of the most reliable ways of checking any Arceus.

Non-choiced Palkia with Fire Blast and Thunder seems very problematic, as it can 2hko your entire team, while getting free switches on Kyogre's Scald and on Tentacruel's Scald, or simply after something dies. You can handle it though, if you don't give it many switch-in opportunities, and if you manage to set-up hazards up asap (especially T-Spikes), as a bit of phazing will do the job, as Kyogre can stomach one Thunder if the need arises, losing ~58% on average, and phaze. If all else fails you have two priority users to take care of it. Just something to be care full of.

@alexwolf

Thanks Alex, yeah Palkias pretty much a threat but I normally find a way around it.. I have to grasp the players skill level first at what they are going to predict and I normally try and get t-spikes up as soon as possible as I normally have to try and wear it down.

I like this team. It's very similar to a rain stall team I used to get to 12th on the DW Ubers ladder about a year and a half ago - it also used the Kyogre/Tentacruel/Ferro/G-O core.

Kyogre looks okay but I have to ask how it does against Grass-Arceus and Shaymin-S. It seems like its relative lack of special bulk causes problems for it against these two since it will be easily 2HKO'd by either of them. This is a big problem if they come in on it when it needs to Rest or has just generally been weakened for any reason. Then again, I guess it would be a problem no matter what so idk.

Giratina-O seems like it's crying out for Substitute since the only thing it can do to threaten Forry and Ferro is DTail it away which will let them potentially do something that can really hurt it (Toxic, TWave, Leech Seed, Pain Split, etc.), but as you've said, your team is so Ho-Oh weak that you can't afford to cut Stone Edge, you obviously can't cut DTail and Shadow Sneak, and cutting Earthquake also seems unwise. Barring Substitute, the only recommendation I could give would be to run a mixed set with HP Fire over Earthquake, but that just seems janky.

This is mostly my personal opinion, but I don't really see a need for Ferrothorn to run Power Whip and Gyro Ball. You say Latis are a problem, but with priority attackers like Giratina and Arceus to kill them outright before they have a chance to do anything relevant, I really don't see how they are. IMO, Gyro Ball should go to another move like Protect, a status move, or even Stealth Rock since SR+Spikes is now compatible on Ferro. And I have to ask for completeness sake - if you are going to run Gyro Ball, why aren't you running a -Spe nature?

Tentacruel looks solid. I could recommend running max SpD and Mirror Coat like I did to counteract Palkia and choice Kyogre, but it's probably too gimmicky to be useful.

Dialga is good, but have you considered Roar over Dragon Tail? It seems like a lot of pokemon that run substitute are things that you would be weak to (Ho-Oh, Giratina-O, Sub seed Shaymin-S, sub CM Arceus). Taunt is a concern, but anything that can Taunt you would be something you hit with Meteor or Fire Blast straight away anyway. This is just something to test.

In addition to the problems you mentioned, your team also seems weak to Lugia. How do you typically fare against this pain in the ass? Bulk Up/DTail Dialga also seems like a problem for this team since once it boosts it can rest off pretty much anything you can do to it. More generally, the team just seems to have big problems against steel types, which means that Lum SD Scizor is also a potential threat (although Dialga goes a long way towards checking him).

Nice team overall though.

@Gates
Well I tend not to keep Kyorge in on Shaymin and Ceus Grass, I normally play and keep stay alive depending on the opponents team which I judge turn one. I've tried the sub Giratina actually I liked it but I don't like using without wish support as it doesn't get any other type of recovery for the set. Two stabs on Ferro are for Skaymin which sub seeds need Gyro to break and deal with it to an extent and also Rayquaza I tend to sack ferro on predicted DD and stay in and gyro. My Dialga set I probably wouldn't change to be fair I need to break sashes and yeah, If I lead with Dialga I tent to just hit something with Draco first turn as people majority of the time turn or rocks so I can take a huge chunk off something. Yeah Lugias pretty annoying I left that one out, If I keep spinner alive which I normally do I'll just spin hazards and switch between ferro and kyorge so nothing gets toxic/twaved. Also Bulk up Dialga i've not actually faced with this team, I completely forgot about it yeah would be a big problem. Thanks very much for your comment its made me consider a few things!

Hey Problems, good job on getting #1, though they are two thing I wonder about.

For Diagla, do you really need a Lum Berry? You already have Kyorge to absorb status(such as Sleep from Darkrai, Paralysis, and others) so why not try Leftovers instead, as this will allow Diagla to last longer. Also, on Giratina-O, have you considered using Will-O-Wisp > Stone Edge. I know you use it get rid of Ho-Oh, but I'll get back to that later! With Will-O-Wisp, you can cripple Pokemon such as Groundon with Dragon Claw, Terrakion, and SD Arceus, which can be a threat to your team if you don't phaze it out. Also, a spread of 208 HP / 108 Atk / 188 Def / 8 Spd will help much better, as you gain enough bulk to shrug of SD Arceus's Shadow Claw, allowing to phaze it out if Dialga can't do it.

From there, I also wonder about something else. Do you really need a spinner? You don't have any Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock, 3 Pokemon are immune to Toxic Spikes, while Kyorge can just use Rest to shrug it off. As such, if you need something to revenge kill Ho-Oh / other Dragons such as Kyurem-White or Rayquaza, Choice Scarf Palkia > Tenta works wonders here, as it gives you another reliable Kyorge switch in should Ferro go down, as well as giving your team some Speed, which is useful since your team is slow with the exception of SD Arceus. It also deals massive damage to Arceus-Steel with Hydro Pump in the rain, so that will help with that as well. Lastly, if you need something to check Dragons / SD or CM Arceus-Formes / Ho-Oh, using an Arceus-Steel > Arceus-Normal (now hear me out before you shoot down the idea :x) helps, as in the rain, Arceus-Steel can tank Kyurem-White and Reshiram, with Roar you get a reliable phazer of Arceus that could be a problem for your team, and with Stone Edge, you'll bait out Ho-Oh(Arceus-Steel is usually Ho-Oh bait) only for you to KO it with Stone Edge. I know you're going to miss SD Arceus, but this will help with Dragon Spam and Ho-Oh, all while giving your team more defensive backbone.

So, in summary:











Great Job on getting #1, hope my changes help!

@TrollFreak

I appreciate your comments, but the amount of changes you've given me change the teams balance all together, I've picked everything because of certain roles they play within the team.. Conserning your Palkia switch for the Tent I'm not really feeling it I feel every ubers team needs a spinner also its always good to get rid of hazards, toxic spikes is probs the main selling point to tent anyway I always spam them pretty early game as getting most mons effected by them as possible is always good to lower their survivability! I used to use Wilo on Gira but as I've said I'm tired of tent staying in fishing for scalf burns hindering Giras survivability and as It is I tend not to need burns on things as I most of the time get them toxic'd which I find is much more effective imo, as I find it easier to play around with switch ins. I like the idea for Steel Ceus instead of E killer though its a good idea, I used to run one its a great poke and does well in the new meta.. But I changed it as I found i couldn't hit certain things well which I needed to, I might try Judge/Thunder cm set though sounds pretty good.. This also helps me with my Lugia problem! Also the Dialgas set my kinda thing I like the fact its kinda gimicy as it shuts down b pass by itself, also i can switch into giras wilos..

As for your issue with Sub Arceus, id reccomend you switching the D-tail in Dialga to Roar, since it fairs pretty well with most CM arceus, and Sub SD are rarely ever seen, bar on normal arceus, which wont be OHKOing DIalga if it gives up a coverage move. Also id Tell you to change the 252 Speed EVs to HP, To make him as bulky as , as well as putting Leftovers on it.

Also, though you get rid of Ho Oh with Stone Edge, Kyogre alrady handles it pretty well, i think you could place Will-O-Wisp, i Also support TrollFreak for a bulkier EV spread in Giratina-O.

- Well played ho-ohs
- Sub CM/SD Arceus if I've played terribly around them
- Dragon Spam
- Arceus Steel

Click to expand...

How are Arceus-Steel and Ho-oh problems, I do not know -__-. Steelceus isn't 2HKOing Ferrothorn or Tenta at +6 either and I haven't even factored the massive passive recovery they get. Besides, Cro Kyogre(Kroger) is one of the best Ho-oh checks in the game. Err now aside the ranting on to the rate...

This team actually has a few more problems then what meets the eye :P. The lack of a revenge killer really irritates me, since stuff that sets up might become problematic. Additionally the lack of a specs kyogre switch-in means that something will be forced to die should it get it safely. (YES TENTACRUEL DIES WITH PROTECT + rain dish recovery DX).

Rayquaza hasn't been mentioned as an annoyance yet which confuses me. Should it successfully pull a Dragon Dance or Swords Dance off it can go to town with Outrage / Dragon Claw, successfully OHKOing everything bar Kyogre on the team should it have Fire Blast (which is common on most sets). Kyogre lacks the ability to do anything but Roar it out anyway, relying on Scald hax is just O_O IMO. Then again the lack of a revenge killer means offensively inclined setup sweepers do the same but idk. Similar to Rayquaza if,Ghost Arceus gets a Calm Mind, things become unpleasant, granted +1 Focus Blast will probably miss on everything but idk.

There are a few ways too alleviate the problems mentioned though, one is simply by running Scarf Palkia over Extremekiller. I know you lose your cleaner should hazards weaken the enemy team sufficently but Scarf Palkia isn't that shabby of a mon at cleaning up late game either. OR you could revert Giratina-o to Specially Defensive Giratina-a, and use Scarf Kyogre over your current one, this doesn't alleviate the DD Rayquaza issue but it does help with the Swords Dance variants and revenge KOing stuff in general, Mewtwo in particular but... I think Gira-o has that covered to an extent. the only other option I could possible think of is, running Grass Arceus / Latias over Exkiller Arceus and Scarf Kyogre will also solve the issue, although DD quaza will still leave a mark on Latias and Lum berry variants will annoy Grass Arceus should you choose not to run Ice Beam on it. This does, however, provide you with a Stall Breaker which is nice should your happen to lose the hazard war / w.e.

Dialga @ Lum Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
Right this things single handedly shut down MANY smashpass teams due to its lumb, smeargles coming straight in and thinking they can pass on,

Click to expand...

Seriously-_-, smash pass utilizing Gorybess rips straight through that Dialga anyway. Go ahead and keep the lum berry if you want but I reccomend you revert to standard Support Dialga, since that version can actually live a Dragon Dance boosted Outrage (not EQ though) and OHKO back with a Draco Meteor. Support Dialga also nicely stops Gorybess smash pass too, since Smeargle already gets phazed out by Dragon Tail.

Conserning your Palkia switch for the Tent I'm not really feeling it I feel every ubers team needs a spinner also its always good to get rid of hazards

Click to expand...

Spinning is so unreliable its not even funny o_O, its so unreliable its the reason why drown all didn't use Forretress... well I guess its reliable if you are Excadril but...

On a random note, troll freak's change of scarfkia > Tenta also works if you wanna keep exkiller and still wanna fix the aforementioned problems. ALSO WHY I USE THE WORD PROBLEMS SO MUCH DX. Although I'm really against using a Steel Arceus whose only attacking move has 8 pp, idk.

TL; DR:

Scarfkia > Exkiller OR Sp def gira-a + Scarf Kyogre > Gira-o +cro kyogre OR Grass Arceus / Latias + Scarf Kyogre > Exkiller + Cro Kyogre OR Trollfreak's changes

Keep in mind all these changes are optional.

@Stone RG
D Tail is for a reason it's to break smash pass sashes or any sashes also gets some residual damage off aswell.. I wouldn't change the Giratina set at all to be fair its natural bulk is enough for me.

@Mr.lol
Arceus Steels a massive problem I've got nothing that can kill it with ease, as soon as it sets up a couple of cms and I can't phaze it I lose simple as, the set I mean by steel is cm,recover,judgement,roar It phazes first if faster and yeah. Rayquazas never really been a threat I've not been swept by one since I've made this team iirc, as I've stayed in earlier posts people like to bring it in on ferro and dd while I just stay in and gyro..
Conserning my Dialga set you need to play enough ubers like myself to actually understand the role it does for this team by not letting smeargle early game get a pass off and so forth. For the spinner when you've got a team while likes to switch around alot by needing to predict switches/moves why would you want hazards up anyway, imo Tents the most viable spinner as it gets good recovery (in rain) and sets up toxic spikes.. Even if my teams not that weak to hazards its always good to have them gone for example sr wearing Giratina down, I don't see why you think spinning is unreliable, I play around wearing ghosts down with forcing switches so Girtina-O is never a problem, Arceus Ghost is beat by toxic spikes and Girtina A doesn't really do anything but phaze but I've got enough ways to deal with it.. I feel like I don't need a more solid revenge killer as I've got e-ceus, this team wouldn't benefit much from a scarfer as I've got enough sort of priority on it. Also about specs Orge, Its only walled by Latias/SpecD Gira A and the few storm drain abusers lying about.. So every team without one of those is naturally specs orge weak as it wrecks everything hard

Thanks