Gorebyss Discussion

Style_Dota

Style_Dota

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Since this is going to be one of the biggest threats in NU, it definitely deserves a thread:



Gorebyss

A Pokemon that needs little to no introduction. While infamous for Smash-Passing in OU, Gorebyss pulls a much different role down in NU: One of the deadliest set up sweepers in the tier.

[Sets]

Name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Surf
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Life Orb / White Herb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid / Modest
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

As Zebraiken said in his analysis, "Err day I'm smashin". This thing is absolutely monstrous. With its main checks (Slowking and Lanturn) off to RU, the metagame is going to have a tough time handling this boosting monster.

Will Gorebyss be the first Pokemon banished from NU? Discuss!
 

Nubagator

I've been looking to get into this tier, but now I'm really not sure what stops this girl. I've thought about Regice, but someone mentioned earlier that it essentially always loses with rocks up :S Perhaps a specially defensive amoonguss could work?
 

Dk Law

I've had a few sweeps with Gorebyss in NU and I still don't get why it's still NU. It really packs a punch with an Sp. Atk base power of 114, definitely should be up in a higher tier because I don't know what can stop it in the NU tier.

I think everyone is going to run T-Wave on every team because of Gorebyss.
 
Honus

Honus

magna carta
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Gorebyss is definitely one of if not the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier and benefitted greatly from the tier shifts, more so than any other Pokemon in the tier. Carrying a Scarfed Electric or Grass Type seems like the best way to deal with it at the moment, although phazing it early and forcing it into TSpikes later can also work. Either way, there's a shortage of counters for Goreboss, not even Mantine can take its attacks x-x.
 
DTC

DTC

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On the #neverused channel one of the most popular things going around now is Specially Defensive Lapras with Thunderbolt. That thing is an amazing Gorebyss check, probably one of the closest things to a counter. Only problem is it practically dies trying to beat LO Modest Gorebyss and it's not that great otherwise. (It takes 63-75% from LO Modest Gorebyss' HP Grass)

Also, Gorebyss in rain is incredibly fun. It doesn't even need to set up half the time because it gets the Swift Swim boost and the rain boost.
 
Smith

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I really do think we're going to end up banning this thing and its cousin huntail, it's simply too mighty and its counters require too much specialization. Until then, I've been using Sunny Day Shedinja to stop it- sunny day just really takes the wind out of Gorebyss' sails, and it can do absolutely nothing in return. Amoonguss also sounds interesting, I like spamming Spore randomly! Another mon that I'm using that's helpful as a check is Water Absorb Cacturne- it can switch in and threaten with a Life Orb Sucker Punch. He and Shedinja actually work very well together, since Cacturne can set up hazards and Shedinja is a fantastic blocker (if you can muster up your own rapid spin support).
 
DTC

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Smith said:
I really do think we're going to end up banning this thing and its cousin huntail, it's simply too mighty and its counters require too much specialization. Until then, I've been using Sunny Day Shedinja to stop it- sunny day just really takes the wind out of Gorebyss' sails, and it can do absolutely nothing in return. Amoonguss also sounds interesting, I like spamming Spore randomly! Another mon that I'm using that's helpful as a check is Water Absorb Cacturne- it can switch in and threaten with a Life Orb Sucker Punch. He and Shedinja actually work very well together, since Cacturne can set up hazards and Shedinja is a fantastic blocker (if you can muster up your own rapid spin support).
Click to expand...
Problem with Life Orb Cacture is it fails to KO White Herb Gorebyss. Even Life Orb Absol doesn't OHKO White Herb Gorebyss.

Shedinja sounds like a really interesting idea, but I don't like the fact it requires Rapid Spin support otherwise it dies after hazards. Could be very useful if you provide it with the support it needs, though.

Also I hate to discount a potential Gorebyss check, but; 252SpAtk +2 Gorebyss (Neutral) Ice Beam vs 252HP/252SpDef Amoonguss (Neutral): 79% - 93% (344 - 406 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. That's a bit troubling for me, if Stealth Rocks are up it has a good chance of being KO'd, unlike Lapras. I'm also not a fan of using things weak to Psychic, (What with Psychic types running rampant) but it could work.
 

Sabinfrost

Gorebyss is really a headache, and Huntail is no slouch either despite the fact it's usually seen as outclassed. The mixed Huntail variant used to be a nightmare for Slowking walls as it easily ohkoed with Crunch.

It's going to be an eventful few weeks before this thing gets banned, until then I might consider a specially defensive Mespirit with CM, thunderbolt and t-wave as honestly looking through the tier there isn't much else with even our steels gone on top of Slowking and Lanturn.

EDIT: Oh, I just had a stroke of genius, Murkrow has priority haze and t-wave, a specially defensive variant could potentially switch in on the predicted smash and stop it dead in it's tracks, it even loses the ice weak if it roosts. Opinions?
 
melvni

melvni

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Sabinfrost said:
EDIT: Oh, I just had a stroke of genius, Murkrow has priority haze and t-wave, a specially defensive variant could potentially switch in on the predicted smash and stop it dead in it's tracks, it even loses the ice weak if it Roosts. Opinions?
Click to expand...
While that seems like a good idea on paper, Max/Max+ Murkrow takes 73.5%-86.4% from rain boosted +0 Modest Life Orb Surf, a OHKO 87.5% of the time if Stealth Rock is up, so if you haze turn one you're dead most of the time. On the other hand, if you do anything else, Surf is an assured OHKO at +2 with Rain and OHKO's 87.5% of the time even without Stealth Rock or Rain. Also outside of rain you are OHKO'd 25% of the time by +0 ice beam if you haze and stealth rock is up and, with a min damage roll on the first ice beam, are 2HKO'd 75% of the time if you Roost then haze, assuming Gorebyss starts at +2.

If it's not raining, stealth rock isn't up, and you predict right it could work, but it seems a bit too shaky for my liking.
 

bean1706

My scalfed Electabuzz outspeeds and kos after a smash so its not that much of a problem unless he's dead in which case it's gg. Having to sack something to bring him in is a nuisance though :/

As far as checks though I can't really think of any. A specially defensive Mantine could probably take a hit or two and then haze to remove the boost. Too bad mantine doesn't get anything to hit Gorebyss with.
 

Sabinfrost

melvni said:
While that seems like a good idea on paper, Max/Max+ Murkrow takes 73.5%-86.4% from rain boosted +0 Modest Life Orb Surf, a OHKO 87.5% of the time if Stealth Rock is up, so if you haze turn one you're dead most of the time. On the other hand, if you do anything else, Surf is an assured OHKO at +2 with Rain and OHKO's 87.5% of the time even without Stealth Rock or Rain. Also outside of rain you are OHKO'd 25% of the time by +0 ice beam if you haze and stealth rock is up and, with a min damage roll on the first ice beam, are 2HKO'd 75% of the time if you Roost then haze, assuming Gorebyss starts at +2.

If it's not raining, stealth rock isn't up, and you predict right it could work, but it seems a bit too shaky for my liking.
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Is that calculating in eviolite which is a given? It's also worth noting that Murkrow has access to priority Sunny Day if Gorebyss is using rain as well as Shell Smash. Most of the ones I've fought haven't had rain support, they've swept on the back of shell smash alone.
 
melvni

melvni

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Sabinfrost said:
Is that calculating in eviolite which is a given? It's also worth noting that Murkrow has access to priority Sunny Day if Gorebyss is using rain as well as Shell Smash. Most of the ones I've fought haven't had rain support, they've swept on the back of shell smash alone.
Click to expand...
Eviolite was calced in. You have to remember, even with max investment Murkrow only has base 60 hp and the equivalent of base 87.5 or so special defense (without eviolite Murkrows defenses are 60/42/42). That's why even if rain isn't common enough to be that worrisome (something I'll admit I don't know, since I haven't played enough NU recently to be able to make that judgement) and assuming the best case scenario from how I look at it, the most offensively powerful Gorebyss still has a 25% chance to OHKO you with Ice Beam if Stealth Rock is up. I guess immediately Thunder Waving could be an option, but if Gorebyss has heal bell or aromatherapy support you've basically just sacrificed Murkrow to delay its sweep, and even if they don't, once you revenge Gorebyss, your opponent will be able to control the switch in and probably take back momentum.
 

Sabinfrost

melvni said:
Eviolite was calced in. You have to remember, even with max investment Murkrow only has base 60 hp and the equivalent of base 87.5 or so special defense (without eviolite Murkrows defenses are 60/42/42). That's why even if rain isn't common enough to be that worrisome (something I'll admit I don't know, since I haven't played enough NU recently to be able to make that judgement) and assuming the best case scenario from how I look at it, the most offensively powerful Gorebyss still has a 25% chance to OHKO you with Ice Beam if Stealth Rock is up. I guess immediately Thunder Waving could be an option, but if Gorebyss has heal bell or aromatherapy support you've basically just sacrificed Murkrow to delay its sweep, and even if they don't, once you revenge Gorebyss, your opponent will be able to control the switch in and probably take back momentum.
Click to expand...

Rain support is very uncommon with Gorebyss, it is however viable, especially with Volbeat who has priority rain dance and can pass boosts.

Most Gorebyss are not LO, opting to take White Herb so they are not demolished by priority moves.
 

destinyunknown

Banned deucer.
I used jynx as my check in past stage, it worked really nice with inmunity to water, resistance to ice and good spdef.

It loses to hp fire/rock variants, but then it loses to almost any water... And carrying a water-type with jynx is like a must.
 

elchupo

As a decent stop I would try my chances with CB Cacturne... maybe. With Water Absorb its biggest benefit (STAB Surf) is neutered and Cacturne is so frail that Gorebyss is hardly going to switch out, especially after setting up, so CB Sucker Punch wouldn't be a gamble.

Probably works better in theory than in practice.
 

shnen

שוני
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Scarf jynx outspeeds and kills, as well as killing other big threats like sawk and swellow. she also has dry skin to absorb a hit, as well as decent special defense. i really think she is good, and checks byss fairly well. Give her a go people!
 
Steamroll

Steamroll

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Quaggy + Jynx can shut Gorebyss down, but it's too specialized for gorebyss to the point where Cacturne can be used to eliminate both of them using Sub + Sucker Punch + Encore and Seed Bomb
 

Sabinfrost

Mantine could potentially be an alright counter for it, it has massive special defense and can haze away the stat boosts.

With Water Absorb it's completely immune to STAB, HP Grass for Quagsire is looking like a potentially popular coverage move which is only neutral, same with Ice Beam and neither are STAB.

Neutral hits that are not STAB should be taken relatively well by 140 SpD.
 
Style_Dota

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Sabinfrost said:
Mantine could potentially be an alright counter for it, it has massive special defense and can haze away the stat boosts.

With Water Absorb it's completely immune to STAB, HP Grass for Quagsire is looking like a potentially popular coverage move which is only neutral, same with Ice Beam and neither are STAB.

Neutral hits that are not STAB should be taken relatively well by 140 SpD.
Click to expand...
Some are going to run HP Rock for Jynx.

Gorebyss + Cacturne seems like it's going to be a popular trend for a bit, especially since Cacturne is one of the only decent Spikers left in the tier since we lost Roserade
 
Steamroll

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I think it will come down to, run HP grass to nail Quaggy but get walled by jynx/mantine or run HP rock and get walled by Quaggy. Quaggy gets 4hko'd by Surf from Gorebyss (31% - 36.5%) and can easily make Gorebyss's sweep hell by Toxicing Gore and then preceding to stall it out or set up in its face. Mantine and Jynx also fail to be 3hko'd by Gorebyss sans HP Rock (This is at +2!). Pretty much when it comes to using her you have to pick your poison and either take out Quaggy or Jynx/Mantine.
 

Ice-eyes

Simper Fi
Or you can run Life Orb; assuming you have Rocks up, you give yourself a good shot at OHKOing Jynx and 2HKOing Mantine.
 

Sabinfrost

Ice-eyes said:
Or you can run Life Orb; assuming you have Rocks up, you give yourself a good shot at OHKOing Jynx and 2HKOing Mantine.
Click to expand...
Running LO you are asking to get taken out by any form of priority, and there will be plenty of that lurking around with Cacturne
 
Smith

Smith

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Yeah, the issue with dealing with Gorebyss is that almost no pokemon can stop EVERY VARIANT of it. Gorebyss @ White Herb and Life Orb with Shell Smash / Surf / Ice Beam / Hp Grass / HP Rock / HP Fire is simply unstoppable, and even though it obviously can't run all that you're really playing the guessing game against opposing Gorebyss. Really the only good strategy to stop it is to carry Thudner Wave on everything and hope for the best.
 
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