Whimsicott (Analysis) [GP 0/2]

Taking over with permission from SDS. Original thread here


STATUS: Written, awaiting GP checks
QC APPROVED 3/3 (Bloo, Iconic, PK Gaming)
GP APPROVED 0/2


Dex

[Overview]

<p>Whimsicott is a bit of an anomaly in this mostly offensive metagame. It has relatively poor stats all around save for its above average Speed, leaving few roles for it to fill. However, it has one single blessing that sets it from other Pokemon: its ability, Prankster. This gives it priority to its wide arsenal of support and status moves, including Taunt, Leech Seed, and Stun Spore to name a few. This allows it to the annoy the opponent in a fairly short amount of time. Combined with priority Substitute, it is one of the best Pokemon to abuse SubSeeding, so don't pass it up!</p>

[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Encore / Taunt
move 4: Stun Spore / Toxic
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Prankster
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Whimsicott is very annoying when played right, and this is the most annoying set it can run. Prankster allows priority for all status moves, which is wonderful for Whimsicott, letting it jump the gun on other opponents, and disable them or set up a Substitute to take an attack. Surprisingly, with a defensive spread such as this, Whimsicott is pretty tough to take down, as Leech Seed recovery combined with Leftovers can replenish a Substitute in an alarming amount of time, especially if you do nothing to Whimsicott even for a single turn, which is very likely if you are Taunted, Encored, or are switching out of Whimsicott.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Despite Whimsicott's high base Speed, there is usually not a point to invest in it, as all the moves it will usually need are given priority thanks to Prankster. Thus, HP and Defense are maxed out to provide the most durability. However, on the off chance that you desperately want to use an attacking move on Whimsicott, Giga Drain is a decent option, allowing it to drain HP from the opponent faster than just with Leech Seed. U-turn is also an option to hit Grass-types, which are immune to Leech Seed and take Whimsicott really well. However, its normal status moves usually are enough to cripple Grass-types. Unfortunately, U-Turn, despite the super effective hit on Grass-types, is weak off of Whimsicott's very subpar Attack stat. If you do need to use U-Turn, switch the nature to Impish to prevent its Attack stat from becoming even weaker.</p>

<p>In terms of teammates, Pokemon that take out Grass-types are immensely useful for Whimsicott, as they are immune to Leech Seed. Specially Defensive Scizor and Infernape are especially good as they are able to easily take out Virizion and Ferrothorn, respectively. Both can also use Whimsicott's Encore to set up a Swords Dance and sweep. A Pokemon that sets up entry hazards is also helpful for Whimsicott, as it will be causing a lot of switches. Skarmory lays down Spikes, and is resistant to the Bug-type moves which Whimsicott is weak to. Heatran also works well at setting Stealth Rock on the field, as well as taking advantage of Fire-type moves aimed at Whimsicott with Flash Fire and resisting all of Whimscott's other weaknesses.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Whimsicott has plenty of other moves to abuse with Prankster besides Leech Seed. Cotton Guard raises its Defense three stages in one turn, making it hard to take down with physical attacks. It also has the ability to cripple the opponent with priority Switcheroo, allowing it to give the opponent any sort of detrimental or useless items. However, Iron Ball and Macho Brace are good ideas as Whimsicott does not mind the Speed drop thanks to Prankster. Memento can be used in conjunction with Light Screen to cripple an enemy, and allow physically bulky Pokemon set up. Finally, pulling a prank with priority Grasswhistle can be fun, but its low accuracy can be Whimsicott's doom.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Anything that can put a stop to Leech Seed can be classified as some type of counter to Whimsicott, especially Grass-types and users of Taunt. Ferrothorn gets a special mention, as it completely walls Whimsicott, and can 3HKO it with Gyro Ball if it is Taunted. It can also set up Stealth Rock and Spikes, which really hurt Whimsicott when it switches in. Toxic Spikes are to be given even greater caution, as they completely ruin Whimsicott's strategy of constantly replenishing its HP. Reuniclus, especially with Calm Mind, can also set up on Whimsicott, and proceed to blow it and its team away, since the only thing that even bothers it to a degree is Stun Spore, which can be annoying if you are fully paralyzed.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Whimsicott receives Chlorophyll as its Dream World ability. While this is a good ability on many other Pokemon that abuse Drought, it is poor on Whimsicott since it already has very high base Speed, nearly nonexistant attacking stats, and a dependence on Prankster to work well.</p>

Whimsicott and Prankster for English stuffs. Also a mention of Giga Drain should be in here as its arguably the most beneficial STAB attack it has due to the HP restoring.

In terms of counters, I think grass types like Ferrothorn and Celebi and other Prankster users are probably the most notably.

You should probably change the first set's nature to Relaxed with 0 Speed IVs so he can take the least amount of damage from Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, and thanks to Prankster, it doesn't need any speed investment.

@Dr. Alpha:

Duly noted.

@The3DOstrich:

Ferrothorn is already an amazing counter to Whimsicott, and there is literally almost nothing this thing can do to it, and if one does the BP calculations, it isnt really THAT much of a difference (The only thing you can really do to it is spam substitute as it sets up on you with spikes). No go.

EDIT:

NatGeo said:

@Dr. Alpha:

Duly noted.

@The3DOstrich:

Ferrothorn is already an amazing counter to Whimsicott, and there is literally almost nothing this thing can do to it, and if one does the BP calculations, it isnt really THAT much of a difference (The only thing you can really do to it is spam substitute as it sets up on you with spikes). No go.

Click to expand...

Well, Bronzong is another user of Gyro Ball, as well as Forretress, and you could also SubSeed on those two, so Relaxed with 0 Speed IVs means your Substitutes have a chance of surviving a Gyro Ball. You could also Taunt Ferrothorn, and if the opponent predicts that and tries to damage you with Gyro Ball, it will be doing less, allowing you to switch in a counter or check on the next turn.

There is definitely one obvious thing you can do to Ferrothorn: encore Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Stealth Rock letting you bring in a sweeper. It will likely take the extra turn of setting up hazards, then have to switch while you rock your boosting move/huge attack/whatever you planned to set up. It's also a decent time to set up your own hazards.

Kittymew said:

There is definitely one obvious thing you can do to Ferrothorn: encore Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Stealth Rock letting you bring in a sweeper. It will likely take the extra turn of setting up hazards, then have to switch while you rock your boosting move/huge attack/whatever you planned to set up. It's also a decent time to set up your own hazards.

Click to expand...

Or how about Taunting it so it doesnt get to do anything and your team isnt damaged by any hazards? Encore only lasts 3 turns anyway, so that wouldn't be such a great option, as you'd need to switch, and would only get one turn to set up.

I've been using Whimsicott lately and it's been doing well to a degree. Rather than using a status move, I use both Encore and Taunt. I also invested a few EVs into speed in order to be faster than other priority users. I wouldn't put this in the set but at least mention them in optional changes.

Skeleton is finished.

QC, take aim and fire at will.

Change the nature from Bold (+Def -Atk) to Impish (+Def -Sp.Atk). The only offensive move you mention is U-Turn, which is physical, and having a pinch more power is never a bad thing.

This looks solid. Good job!

Ready men? Did you take aim? FIRE!!!



QC APPROVED (1/3)

Looks good to me. Whimsicott can't do much else!

QC APPROVED (2/3)

approved (again)

QC Approved 3/3

ok that was quick!

Will write up by Thursday

This is awfully barebones (besides the fact that its a skelly) and there's a bit to be said about it but i'll try to be succinct (if i'm even using that word correctly).

First of all, subseeding is an extremely ineffective strategy that just plain doesn't work. Whimsicott has extremely common counters that it can't do a single thing to, so staying in is really not an option at all. Whimsicott's most effective strategy is to set up a lock that forces a pokemon out while simultaneously u-turning, thus handing you tons of momentum and racking up hazard damage.

I would suggest adding a substituteless 'momentum' set. I know substitute is extremely (inexplicably) common, but throwing away 25% of your precious health while a 100% counter switches in is never a good idea. You've got taunt to protect against status and u-turn to scout.

Cotton Guard and Charm are also excellent options and should be elaborated on a bit more. They allow you to easily outstall many things it otherwise couldn't, and these moves also have some synergy with its typing because the electric, grass and water types that it will be tasked with eating are generally special. This allows you to run a careful nature with max hp and special defense without having to worry about physical attacks with your prioirity +3 (or -2). The choice between the two moves are a bit of a debate; Cotton Guard reduces more damage than Charm, but Charm tends to cause switches (which synergizes with u-turn).

Like Substitute, Stun Spore is another commonly used move on Whimsicott that is contradictory to its optimal playstyle. Besides its frustrating accuracy, if a pokemon is 'fully paralyzed' on the turn that encore ends, its encore lock is broken.

Switcheroo w/ choice items should definitely be mentioned as opposed to the iron ball/macho brace because they can totally wreck many of Whimsicott's hard counters (scizor, reuniclus and ferrothorn for example aren't going to enjoy choice specs and these three couldn't care less about speed). Alot of things it wants to trick choice stuff onto commonly carry leftovers which is a sweet bonus. It's also cool that Whimsicott's fourth move (apart from leech seed, encore and u-turn) is something of a wild card and is thus wide open for customization so a one-time move like switcheroo isn't going to hurt Whimsicott's usefulness at all. Unfortunately, all these benefits are canceled by the fact that switcheroo is illegal with encore, and if you aren't using encore with Whimsicott you're better off using something else.

Hazards should also be mentioned (possible in the teammate section) because it's extremely beneficial to anything erufuun can do, even if you're just subseeding with it. Subseeding is bad enough as it is, but when your opponent can just switch around freely it's literally completely useless. With hazards down, something in an encore lock might just stay in, allowing you a free turn of setup after you u-turn.

And finally, Worry Seed might be mentionable on the grounds that it allows Whimsicott to handily defeat two of its most common counters, Reuniclus and Breloom. There's no better feeling in the world than watching breloom die of poison. It's like sex. It also allows you to revenge kill swift swimmers and sand throwers.

I apologize for possibly speaking out of place, but as a dedicated Erufuun user, it's frustrating to see one of its weakest strategies (subseeding) not only being inexplicably common, but now the only option in the smogon write-up. People just don't use the little guy correctly.

Green Mage said:

I apologize for possibly speaking out of place, but as a dedicated Erufuun user, it's frustrating to see one of its weakest strategies (subseeding) not only being inexplicably common, but now the only option in the smogon write-up. People just don't use the little guy correctly.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with Green Mage here. As a whimsicott enthusiast, I'm shocked to see this get approved. Encore really is the heart and soul of whimsicotts bread and butter, and should be the main move on the set.

Editing this...

Dex

[Overview]

Whimsicott has to be one of the most powerful support pokemon ever conceived. Prankster is disgustingly good, and whimsicotts huge support movepool makes it hands down the best user of the ability. Priority on encore and taunt allow it to succeed where pokes from previous generations have failed time and time again; These two moves allow it to function as an almost universal stop to stall AND boosting offense regardless of speed. Other pranksters offer support utility as well, but whimsicott distinguishes itself from the rest with it's huge movepool. It can learn almost every support move that the other pranksters can, giving it a unique niche in the metagame. Whimsicott is able to check a wide range of threats with the right moveset and is extremely difficult to stop once it starts. It's learning curve is somewhat steep, but in the right hands it's a monster.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Encore
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Toxic / U-Turn
move 4: Toxic / Taunt / Cotton Guard
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Prankster
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

• The purpose of this set is to counter boosting sweepers. Switch Whimsicott in on a boosting move like swords dance and encore it. You have now set up an "encore trap," and can use your other 3 moves to disarm the opponent and prevent their sweep.
• Leech seed will whittle down the opponent, and heals residual damage taken from stealth rock and sandstorm, allowing whimsicott to switch in and out as much as it wants.
• The choice for the third slot depends on the opponent. If they stay in and try to stall you out of encores, toxic stops them. If they switch out, u-turn will maintain your momentum.
• Taunt is a great utility option, shutting down opponents who try to set up hazards through encore, or status you. Cotton guard is a great choice too, and can be thrown up like a shield, cushioning cott against physical attacks. Charm can also be used, but I don't like it as much.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Whimsicott has workable bulk with a defensive spread. If you're using it correctly though, it shouldn't be taking many hits at all.
• Attacking moves should never be used on whimsicott, as it's too weak to use them effectively, and investing in it's offenses hampers its bulk. You'll get superior results from a full support moveset every time.

• Speed is unnecessary, as all of cotts moves have priority, and his min speed (268) is fast enough to outpace most priority users.

[Other Options]

• Switcheroo is an interesting choice, but it's incompatibility with encore means it must be used on a dedicated set.
• Priority Grasswhistle can be used as an emergency stop on a sweeper, but the 55% accuracy is unreliable.
• Other support options include memento, light screen, tailwind, safeguard, worry seed and sunny day.

[Counters]

• Ferrothorn is immune to leech seed and toxic, and doesn't really care about stun spore. Encore won't stop it from setting up spikes, so there's not much whimsicott can do here.
• Faster Pranksters, namely liepard, thundurus and tornadus can taunt whimsicott, forcing it out.
• Espeon and Xatu are completely immune to cott due to magic bounce.
• Status is bad. Keep whimsicott away from it.
• Reuniclus can possibly stall you out of encores, being immune to toxic and leech seed. Calm mind has 32PP to encores 8. You use up one encore for every three calm minds, meaning reuniclus will still have 8 calm minds when you run out of encores. He will fall to toxic + worry seed though.

[Dream World]

• Whimsicott gets Chlorophyll as its Dream World ability
• Good on a lot of other Pokemon, but it is poor on Whimsicott due to its already high speed, piss poor attacking stats, and dependence on Prankster

Click to expand...

Feel free to critique and edit.

Despite all that is being said I still feel that priority sub is still one of the big things Whimsi has going for it and removing that leaves it open to way more things than it would be vulnerable to otherwise. Also with priority sub he can outstall a lot of attackers since they'll attack and it'll be roughly recovering the damage off that it gets after leftovers and leech seed and if they switch out you can just put leech seed on the next pokemon and do the same exact thing. Cotton guard is great for the defense bonus but really the security of a sub is just plain out better. Taunt is also a great option but once again falls to the security that a sub gives. U-Turn is good for emergency escapes but once again, why switch when you could have had a sub up?

I do have to agree with Encore being one of the main options however, the fact that it can lock attackers into a non attacking move for two turns makes it a great move and can open the way for many sweeps. Along with sub and leech seed, it should be pretty much mandatory on every Whims. Taunt/Toxic/Cotton Guard/etc should all be put in the optional fourth slot at least in my opinion.

Majora_younglink said:

Despite all that is being said I still feel that priority sub is still one of the big things Whimsi has going for it and removing that leaves it open to way more things than it would be vulnerable to otherwise. Also with priority sub he can outstall a lot of attackers since they'll attack and it'll be roughly recovering the damage off that it gets after leftovers and leech seed and if they switch out you can just put leech seed on the next pokemon and do the same exact thing. Cotton guard is great for the defense bonus but really the security of a sub is just plain out better. Taunt is also a great option but once again falls to the security that a sub gives. U-Turn is good for emergency escapes but once again, why switch when you could have had a sub up?

I do have to agree with Encore being one of the main options however, the fact that it can lock attackers into a non attacking move for two turns makes it a great move and can open the way for many sweeps. Along with sub and leech seed, it should be pretty much mandatory on every Whims. Taunt/Toxic/Cotton Guard/etc should all be put in the optional fourth slot at least in my opinion.

Click to expand...

You're not using him correctly. He's not a wall. Substitute is a waste. why drain 25% of your health to block status when you can taunt? What are you going to do behind your sub? He has no offensive presence whatsoever. You can taunt and cotton guard, but you're going to lose momentum eventually. You need a tailored set with a clear idea of what it's purpose is. You can't stick taunt, encore, substitute and leech seed on it and use it to disrupt and annoy the opponent willy nilly.

A good whimsicott is like a grenade. He appears suddenly, blows a giant hole in the opponents setup/strategy and leaves them wondering what the fuck just happened.

i want to ask this simply because i cant find a damage calculator. I know it would be less than optimal, but what kind of damage does hp fire do to scizor, ferrethorn, forretress, and skarmory? Can it soundly ko any of them if even on the switch? I cant count the number of times I have wished i had that move on this guy assuming it would have to do at least decent damage.

JT Swift said:

You're not using him correctly. He's not a wall. Substitute is a waste. why drain 25% of your health to block status when you can taunt? What are you going to do behind your sub? He has no offensive presence whatsoever. You can taunt and cotton guard, but you're going to lose momentum eventually. You need a tailored set with a clear idea of what it's purpose is. You can't stick taunt, encore, substitute and leech seed on it and use it to disrupt and annoy the opponent willy nilly.

A good whimsicott is like a grenade. He appears suddenly, blows a giant hole in the opponents setup/strategy and leaves them wondering what the fuck just happened.

Click to expand...

What does any subseeder do behind a sub? Stall the opponent out. It isn't a wall at all, it's a subseeder. Also taunt isn't to really block status as much as it is to prevent your opponent from stat upping or taunting you. That is also why it is below sub in usability.

I don't disagree with how you use it, but citing someone else using it wrong when both ways work is sort of egotistical.

Priority Light Screen deserves a mention.

With a +SpD nature and max EVs, Light Screen, Encore, Leech Seed and Worry Seed can amusingly stall out any Reuniclus set unless it chooses Psyshock. Light Screen also helps others set up. You can replace Worry Seed with Charm to act as a pseudo Double Screen of sort.

I know that priority substitute is great for subseeding and disrupting the opponent, but if feels somewhat awkward for me. You need to use toxic, stun spore or something threatening to make it worthwile IMO. Maybe you could use it with spikes and stealth rock support to force switches?

How about a switcheroo set? It can't use encore, but it can still do a great job of disrupting the enemy.

[SET]
name: Switcheroo
move 1: Switcheroo
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Stun Spore
move 4: Toxic / Leech Seed / Filler
item: Iron Ball
nature: Bold
ability: Prankster
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Iron Ball allows you to switch moves unlike a choice item, which won't ruin the surprise for the opponent. Priority taunt gives the set something else to do. Stun spore is a good choice for fast frail sweepers and once the opponent knows that you have it, you can play it like thundurus, checking sweepers with the threat of paralysis. I'm not sure what to put in the last slot. Maybe pseudopass safeguard or light screen?

I'd really like some feedback on all of this.

It looks alright but isn't priority encore one of the biggest things Whismi has going for it and I'm a bit disappointed it isn't one of the main options on the set.

Tricking is a neat idea but honestly isn't it a bit repetitive to have both iron ball trick and stun spore? I'd say get rid of one or the other to make room for a better option. Especially since after you para/trick the target with your set you pretty much HAVE to switch out.

ive been running a max sp def w/ charm and loving it. This thing is such a threat to teams who rely on stat up sweepers. At the same time its incredible against stall. There just isn't a team comp that this thing isn't good against so long as you aren't doing something foolish like running sub seed.

Actually, if a Pokemon is fully paralyzed when their encore ends, you can still encore the last move they used! You can't Encore if they struggle!