Cacturne Discussion: creepy scarecrow, or is it crappy instead?

Other thread was made on December and quickly fell into a Shiftry discussion anyway…



(Click the image to go to Serebii's page)

Base stats:

HP: 70
Attack: 115
Defence: 60
Special Attack: 115
Special Defence: 60
Speed: 55

Damage taken from Stealth Rock: 1/8

Movepool:

STAB in bold.

Physical Options:

Revenge
Faint Attack
Ambush
Quick Revenge
Needle Arm
Focus Punch
Brick Break
Hurl
Poison Stab
Dynamicpunch (Tradeback / Egg)
Low Kick (Egg)
Seed Bomb (Egg)
Body Slam (Tradeback)
Thunderpunch (Tradeback)

Good, with mostly STAB attacks with nice Fighting options. Of note is that if you want to use Tradeback moves, you'll lose Seed Bomb.

Special Options:

Hidden Power
Focus Bomb
Energy Ball
Dark Pulse
Grass Rope

Almost abysmal. But you only need 4 moves to make an AG set, right…?

Other Options:

Growth
Leech Seed
Ingrain
Spikes
Sandstorm
Destiny Bond
Sunny Day
Freeze
Swords Dance
Grasswhistle
Teteer Dance
Encore (NYPC)

Several support moves with no defensive stats to back them up. Swords Dance, Encore, and Leech Seed are the ones that one would use the most from this bunch (if any), followed by Teteer Dance and MAYBE Grasswhistle.


While Cacturne doesn't die to Tackle like Sharpedo does, his defences are very low to survive a couple of turns in any metagame.

Cacturne had a very big problem in Advance… and it still has it. He's too slow and too frail to be of any competitive use. However, Cacturne can try to use A. Scarf. With it, he can be faster than either the base 91 or the base 105 depending on his nature with max speed. While this may not seem to be (too) much, anything better than base 55 is appreciated.

The attacking split affected Cacturne in the sense that he doesn't have to split EVs anymore unless he wants or needs to go mixed. He also got moves in both sides of the spectrum for this. However, the fact that Seed Bomb is an Egg move and that you can only use one set for special sweeping purposes may be hindering for some things.

So what to choose for Cacturne? He has a couple of options and they all have good things for them… as well as bad:

Proposed sets:

Cacturne @ A. Scarf
Sand Veil

~ Hidden Power Ice
~ Focus Bomb
~ Energy Ball
~ Dark Pulse

If Timid, Cacturne can outrun Garchomp and hit with HP. Both STAB moves have the same base power, although Dark Pulse's flinching may come in handy if you're trying to make him survive more than the first turn. Focus Bomb is just a filler for lack of other moves (unless you want to use Acid).

Cacturne @ Leftovers
Sand Veil

~ Swords Dance
~ Ambush
~ Focus Punch
~ Seed Bomb / other

A set like this can only work for a master of prediction. If you manage to dance, that is. Ambush if the opponent attacks, and Focus Punch if it doesn't. And Seed Bomb… if you're not sure. A high risk / high reward set.


And then there's the threat list:

Tyranitar: Sandstream aids Cacturne by messing Stone Edge even more, and resisting Crunch means Cacturne may survive it. Cacturne has good odds against this one since he will almost always have a Fighting move handy, or there's always STAB Grass.

Gyarados: No idea about this one, really.

Infernape: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Azelf: Cacturne might be able to win against a weakened one if he's using Ambush. Otherwise he can't win, even with the AS.

Rhyperior: Special Cacturne has a good chance at winning, but the physical one is shaky at best, especially without Sandstorm.

Electivire: No idea about this one, really.

Heracross: Eats Cacturne alive. Heracross resists everything Cacturne can throw at it barring Hidden Power.

Salamence: Special Cacturne with AS can possibly win with HP Ice, otherwise it's almost impossible.

Togekiss: Almost impossible to win unless Air Slash misses AND if Cacturne has Thunderpunch available.

Gengar: Cacturne might be able to win against a weakened one if he's using Ambush. Otherwise he can't win, even with the AS.

Garchomp: Special Cacturne with AS can possibly win with HP Ice, otherwise it's almost impossible. Sandstorm is both a curse and a blessing against this one.

Raikou: No idea about this one, really.

Lucario: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Rampardos: It all depends in who's Jolly and who isn't.

Tauros: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Starmie: Cacturne might be able to win against a weakened one if he's using Ambush. Otherwise he can't win, even with the AS.

Weavile: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Dugtrio: Cacturne can win only if Dugtrio is stuck with Earthquake or a Dark move.

Alakazam: Cacturne might be able to win against a weakened one if he's using Ambush. Otherwise he can't win, even with the AS.

PorygonZ: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Medicham: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Staraptor: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Slowbro: Special Cacturne can win if Slowbro is already weakened, or if Dark Pulse flinches at the right time, or both. Ice Beam means dead Cacturne.

Jolteon: No idea about this one, really.

Aerodactyl: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Snorlax: If Cacturne is carrying both Neddle Arm and Leech Seed, it has a chance. Otherwise, no.

Zapdos: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Blissey: Physical Cacturne can beat her if she lacks Ice Beam. Otherwise, it's really shaky.

Suicune: Ice Beam means dead Cacturne.

Sceptile: No idea about this one, really.

Slaking: Special Cacturne with AS can win if Dark Pulse flinches or if it crits. Otherwise no.

Ninjask: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Metagross: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Celebi: Current (Advance) Celebi sets can't touch Cacturne. Cacturne being able to kill Celebi greatly depends if this changes or not.

Jirachi: Cacturne should run away from this one.

Manaphy: Ice Beam means dead Cacturne.


I'm sorry for the lack of information, but I'm currently at school and can't check several things.

I like a physical set with Ascarf, just because Focus Punch and Ambush play mindgames like nothing else.

Cacturne w/Ascarf
Ambush
FP
Needle Arm/Seed Bomb
Thunderpunch/filler

Thunderpunch becuase it's really all he has/suprises gyarados.

I think a Choice Glasses set could work... Energy Ball, Dark Pulse, Focus Bomb, and a filler (HP Flying in OU for Heracross; HP Psychic or something for Toxicroak, maybe) is capable of inflicting pretty heavy damage across the board.

I just don't think Cacturne could do well in OU, it's so easily killed by so much, and it is also massively weak to Heracross. If it were in UU and not NU in D/P perhaps I'd use it a bit, but 70 / 60 / 60 are horrid defenses. 55 speed just puts the last nail in the coffin.

I can't see Cacturne suddenly getting massive amounts of use just because of the new moves and physical split. It will stay in the UU/NU section because it needs much better defences, a few turns against anything half decent and thats all you've got. And it doesn't have high enough attack to do anything in those turns.

The best thing about Cacturne is that it resists Celebi's attacks and can kill it with Dark Pulse. Other than that it can't really do much.

AScarf is probably one of the nicest changes for it as was covered. Life Orb isn't half bad either (increases the vaibility of a mixed sweeper).

J4imie is probably right, I don't see this jumping out of UU. He's still cool though.

Let me be the first to say TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM

Give it an ExpertBelt/LO, Quiet nature, EVs into Att/SpAtk and nothing else. Grass/Dark/Fight/HP[any] for its moves. Grass can be Needle arm or Energy ball. Dark can be DarkPulse or Ambush. Fighting can be Focus bomb or Focus punch. HP whatever is left.
He's like Octillery except with MUCH cooler STAB.

Pneuma said:

Let me be the first to say TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM TRICK ROOM

Give it an ExpertBelt/LO, Quiet nature, EVs into Att/SpAtk and nothing else. Grass/Dark/Fight/HP[any] for its moves. Grass can be Needle arm or Energy ball. Dark can be DarkPulse or Ambush. Fighting can be Focus bomb or Focus punch. HP whatever is left.
He's like Octillery except with MUCH cooler STAB.

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People is always forgetting Trick Room based teams... ._.U

I still hold that Trick Room is a gimmick in 1v1, and I think there are much better choices, at least in OU. In UU, it could work, but I dunno. For instance, Crawdaunt boasts the same speed, slightly better attack, and better stuff to go with that attack (Swords Dance/Crabhammer/Crunch/Scissor Cross, for instance). Oh well.

A Trick Room team of Dusknoir, Bronzong, Slowbro, Rhyperior, Cacturne, and Octillery could wreck.

Ideally, the best way to "pass" trick room is to trick room and then immediately explode with your now faster base speed. Bronzong does this so well, I'm sure some others could do so also. Afterwards it's a double-blind pick of pokemon and you're almost guaranteed to go faster with a much better EV'd sweeper (since you can put some into defenses and HP).

Trick Room with Destiny Bond makes Cacturne a safe suicider if you can predict. And if you can predict, might as well put a leech seed on there. Sorry if this seems nubbish, but I'm pushing for the support/mind game cacturne.

Also, I believe Sucker Punch was forgotten in the special attack list, which I think works very well as well with mindgames if you keep it secret and use it on a weakened enemy.

Looking at it, I personally like Swords Dance / Sucker Punch / Seed Bomb / Low Kick. Low Kick beats the heck out of TTar switch-ins. I'm not sure I'd use this in OU though.

gymleadertony said:

Also, I believe Sucker Punch was forgotten in the special attack list, which I think works very well as well with mindgames if you keep it secret and use it on a weakened enemy.

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Sucker Punch was listed as Ambush, its translated Japanese name. Also it's physical. ;/

If you can get him in without dying (which is obviously a problem), then Sub/Focus Punch/Sucker Punch/Leech Seed could be worth a shot. Likely to cause a switch or two, so back him up with Spikes and Stealth Rock.

Is Counter worth mentioning?

I love Cacturne soo much, I just want it to be good so badly. he reminds me of Bannette, another pokemon i love, wiht great attack but lousy defenses and speed. It seems GameFreak has something against all the pokemon I really like. At least Absol has decent speed, right?

Counter seems unlikely to work, since Cacturne should draw out a Fighter. Especially Heracross, who will OHKO him with ease. Focus Sash + Counter could work, but it's a very shaky prospect.

Phuquoph said:

Counter seems unlikely to work, since Cacturne should draw out a Fighter. Especially Heracross, who will OHKO him with ease. Focus Sash + Counter could work, but it's a very shaky prospect.

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At least he doesnt have to worry about Sandstorm damage ruining that set...