Giratina Discussion.

Arcane

Giratina.png



Credit goes to Wikipedia.


Stats :

HP : 150
Attack : 100
Defence : 120
SP. Atk : 100
SP. Def : 120
Speed : 90

Movepool :

http://serebii.net/pokedex-dp/487.shtml
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Giratina is a Ghost / Dragon typed uber of the fourth generation. He is the third counterpart of Dialga and Palkia. He's pretty cool looking too, and he has a few sets to choose from.

As you can see, it has godly defencive stats and better than average attacking stats, and 150 whooping base HP! His movepool is a bit lacking, but it's alright anyway. I require a bit help with this badass looking thing, and I need some help on choosing the sets.. (I'm too lazy to write down the EVs and you can figure them out yourself, but they should have like 496 HP and rest in defences and sp atk.).

Set 1 : @ Leftovers

Calm Mind
Shadow Ball / Will-O-Wisp
Dragon Pulse / Will-O-Wisp
Substitute / Rest / Will-O-Wisp / Roar


Pretty self-explanatory. Distribute EVs among HP, Defence and Sp. Atk.


Set 2 (Raitina?) : @ Leftovers

Dragon Pulse / Dragon Claw
Shadow Ball / Shadow Force (maybe / Shadow Claw
Rest
Sleep Talk

Need an uber wall? Right here. Give him 496 HP, and spread the rest among sp atk or atk, defence and sp. def. I invented this moveset just because I needed a sp. def wall for Pearl. (I don't really like using ubers but I can't resist using this menace.)

Set 3 (Credit goes to Misty) : @ Choice Specs

Shadow Force
Meteoric Swarm
Dragon Pulse
Aura Sphere

I should have asked for permission, but I couldn't resist adding this baby. With already good HP and defences, and better than average sp. atk, this thing is pretty awesome.
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So, which moveset should I use for Pearl? I've already decided on two of the pokemon I'm going to use, Garchomp the god and Rhyperior the physical wall. I was hoping to build up Giratina into a sp. def wall but there are other pokemon I could build up into that kind of wall, so maybe he could be a Calm Minding sweeper? I don't really know, and there are people better than me out there so I would do better asking them.

Post your Giratina movesets, counters, suggestions, strategies and discuss!
 
Second highest HP for an Uber, quite nice, don't you say?

I'm personally thinking about running it with a Will-o-wisp set. Attacks will bounce off of this thing like Wobby, but better, so you're going to get the chance to do what you want and potentially screw up your opponent's team while doing so. You're not going to do much with its base 90 (S)Atk in Ubers.

Also, could you list some of its other moves and link to http://serebii.net/pokedex-dp/487.shtml
 
Calm Mind is kind of dumb when you have all of those supporting moves, although CM + Roar is certainly a viable option. Think CMCune on defensive steroids but with a Dark-typed attacking move.

Will-O-Wisp and Heal Block sound good on this thing, too bad it has no recover or the screens.
 
I love this guy! IMO if DT was allowed or he had a recovery move, this guy would be a best. At this time however, I'm torn on what to do. Shadow Force pwns in 2 vs 2, but he gets Calm Mind (not complementing the attack's physical nature, abusing the lower defense commonly found in ubers)and his attacking stats are meh.
 
Shadow Force has an an easy 2v2 counter. Hello Follow Me Clefable! But of course, who'd ever think to use Clefable against an uber team? Nevermind the fact that Clefable's trait and ability to get Psych Up + a healing move completely nutralizes Giratina.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Guard
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SDef
~Wish
~Psych Up
~Ice Beam
~Flamethrower/Thunderbolt

The EVs are set up under the assumption that Clefable can break Giratina's Substitute under normal conditions with Ice Beam. They are designed to reduce overall risk. It won't ever become a standard, but this is just how a weaker Pokemon can outdue it.
 
Bliksem said:
Shadow Force has an an easy 2v2 counter. Hello Follow Me Clefable! But of course, who'd ever think to use Clefable against an uber team? Nevermind the fact that Clefable's trait and ability to get Psych Up + a healing move completely nutralizes Giratina.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Guard
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SDef
~Wish
~Psych Up
~Ice Beam
~Flamethrower/Thunderbolt

The EVs are set up under the assumption that Clefable can break Giratina's Substitute under normal conditions with Ice Beam. They are designed to reduce overall risk. It won't ever become a standard, but this is just how a weaker Pokemon can outdue it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's REALLY novelty though. I mean, Clefable? But seriously though, in Ubers Arceus, Blissey, Slaking, Darkrai, and Dialga can switch in on a ghost attack, but ghost isn't a bad attacking type IIRC.
 
Togetic was also a choice used, and now has gotten even better in the form of Togekiss. There's nothing Clefable can do that Togekiss can't and Togekiss gets the added benefit of Earthquake immunity.
 
The lack of a healing move is really problematic. 150HP or not, without some sort of useful recovery, you will get worn down. It will last a while, but it's no wall.

Giradina's other problem is common weaknesses. Ice, Ghost, Dragon, Dark - pretty much every Pokemon worth anything (except Groudon, who just beats it into a pulp) carries one of these attacks.

I think a Choice Specs set is best. Shadow Ball/Meteoric Swarm/Dragon Pulse/filler seems right. The filler should most likely be Aura Sphere - it OHKOs Heatran and might help against a weakened Blissey.
 
I've thought about your sleep talk set, with rest/talk/shadow ball/dragon pulse. It's a shame he's weak to so much. Misty's CS set is great and it's probably what i'll end up with.

Will-O-Wisp is also pretty rad in ubers (did i just say rad?) but i have a feeling that heatran could become popular there and a boosted heatran could get nasty.
 
How about Calm Mind/Will-o-Wisp/Shadow Ball/Substitute? It's something random that I came up with. Calm Mind and Will-o-Wisp aspiring Groudons and the like and stall out Blissey if it comes in to ruin you. Dragon Pulse is also a viable option over Shadow Ball.
 
Great Sage said:
How about Calm Mind/Will-o-Wisp/Shadow Ball/Substitute? It's something random that I came up with. Calm Mind and Will-o-Wisp aspiring Groudons and the like and stall out Blissey if it comes in to ruin you. Dragon Pulse is also a viable option over Shadow Ball.
Click to expand...
I think it's rather criminal to not use Subsitute on this guy, given his massive HP, but roar might actually be a better move on a set like this. So instead of stalling with Bliss, you can roar it out and deal with it later.
 
Misty said:
The lack of a healing move is really problematic. 150HP or not, without some sort of useful recovery, you will get worn down. It will last a while, but it's no wall.

Giradina's other problem is common weaknesses. Ice, Ghost, Dragon, Dark - pretty much every Pokemon worth anything (except Groudon, who just beats it into a pulp) carries one of these attacks.
Click to expand...

Well, Misty, I completely disagree. Will-O-Wisp completely offs Groudon, and a CMed Dragon Pulse will make Groudon sware that switching in was a stupid idea. Physical Giratina is the only type walled by it, and even a CBed Shadow Claw still can beat it if it CHs, of course. Note that it can stall most of those attackers, and it also gives Normal, Bug, Electric and Water resistances to the table, among others. And Lugia has more weaknesses, although it has recover, but it also has a Stealth Rock weak.

Giratina is meant for ReStalk, it can stall any UnSTABed special attacker with only a minimul EV investment(Darkrai's Dark Pulse doesn't even 2HKO unless it's Modest), and has one of the best STAB types ever for Ubers. It might actually be one of the few Pokemon that can survive the Rest, IMO.
 
Updates with Misty's choice spec set and added WoW to the Calm Mind set. I think I'll use The STalk set for my Pearl team because I'll need his special walling skills.
 
I very much doubt anybody can even get close to a magic number to hurt this thing unboosted.

Just mucking around on the damage calc shows if Giratina has near to max HP, and around 300 special defence, it takes something huge like 400 special attack to just 3hko Gir with an unSTAB'd ice beam.
 
That sounds a lot, but don't forget that many, many ubers are easily capable of hitting and surpassing that 400 mark and others, like Latis and Palkia, are going to be slamming it with STAB dragon moves.

This thing probably isn't going to work so well unless it's a sleep talker due to the complete lack of a recovery method.
 
This guy is my favorite "Obtainable" Uber this gen (meaning not event poke, that would be Darkrai. Its a damn shame that he doesnt get recover or even moonlight, otherwise he would be unstopable. I like the idea or Rest/Sleep Talk/Dragon Claw/Shadow Claw. Dual STAB that will hit a lot of ubers Super Effective. Lati@s dont like Dragon Claw, and a CH Shadow Claw will mess up Mewtwo and other Psychics bad.]

Maybe even a Choice Band Set. A tad slow, but with the defenses it has it could take a hit and fire back some CB physical attacks. Something Like Dragon Claw/Shadow Claw/Earthquake/Filler.

Edit-Obligatory Armaldo Evo mention. Looks cool though.
Ran Some Numbers, CH Shadow Claw Unboosted will OHKO Mewtwo almost all the time, (max Attack, no nature)
 
The Choice Band and Choice Specs sets are about identical, except that the CS set gets the crucial Draco Meteor, which really is handy against stuff like incoming Kyogre. It will also 2HKO a 381/276 Arseus all the time and a 444/276 Aruseus on average (assuming it's not Dragon or Steel, which are both unlikely).

EV-wise I think I would max out special attack and special defense to start. 441/339 survives most anything short of a Latios Draco Meteor (and Giratina OHKOs Latios, so it can't come in). It still survives two Groudon Earthquakes or an SD quake, though a Draco Meteor just barely misses the OHKO (403 max damage on 404/216 :[ )...

BTW, something I randomly considered about my last post - Earth Power is a consideration over Aura Sphere, to handle Metagross and Jirachi.
 
Giratina w/Choice specs
Aura sphere
Draco meteor
Shadow drive (what's its english name?)
Land power

Shadow drive to scare away the latis (and blissey too), Aura sphere and Land power for coverage, and Draco meteor whenever it suits you. This can't sweep, and its special attack (and attack, also) isn't fantastic, so Draco meteor won't be as good as you might think. Think of it as a Choice spec-er that won't die easily to attacks on any end of the spectrum.

Once again, all theoretical.
 
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