The Forgotten Turtle - Blastoise Discussion

Thorns

Thorns

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/009.shtml

Base Stats
HP: 79 Attack: 83 Defense: 100 Sp. Attack: 85 Sp. Defense: 105
Speed: 78

Rather fast for a turtle, wouldn't you say?

Overview
Blastoise is the least popular of the RBY starters. It's slow, has above-average attacking stats (and that doesn't cut it), and is whipped by most fast special attackers, despite that nice SDef. How did DP affect the cannon-wielding upright reptile? Let's have a look.

Traits
Torrent: When Blastoise's HP falls below 33.3%, its Water-type attacks' power is boosted by 1.5.

It's a starter Pokemon...

Notable Movepool
Physical
Rapid Spin
Aqua Tail
Focus Punch
Iron Tail
Earthquake
Return
Brick Break
Facade
Avalanche
Rock Slide
Waterfall
Flail
Aqua Jet
Fake Out
Seismic Toss
Body Slam
Ice Punch

Lots of STAB there.

Special
Flash Cannon
Surf/Hydro Pump
Ice Beam/Blizzard
Focus Blast
Hidden Power

Uh what's up Game Freak? Blastoise has nearly no good Special attacks to speak of.

Support
Protect
Roar
Toxic
Rest
Attract
Endure
Captivate
Sleep Talk
Swagger
Substitute
Haze
Refresh
Yawn
Mirror Coat
Counter

Nice. Yawn is cool.

Movesets
Blastoise @ Leftovers
- Surf
- 3 support moves

Pure utility.

Blastoise @ Leftovers/Choice Specs
- Surf
- Flash Cannon
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam

Special sweep, kinda. Not as good as the utility.

Blastoise @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Choice Band
- Avalanche/Ice Punch
- Waterfall/Aqua Tail
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch

Physical attacking. Avalanche and Earthquake means you cover your weaknesses (kinda).

Blastoise @ Leftovers
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Surf
- Yawn/Toxic

Tanktoise.

Blastoise @ Leftovers/Life Orb
- Waterfall/Aqua Tail/Surf
- Earthquake/Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- support move

A mix of the above sets, use Surf and Ice Beam together, and Waterfall/Aqua Tail and Earthquake together.

Blastoise @ Leftovers
- Aqua Ring
- Protect
- Substitute/Surf
- Toxic

Annoying set. Gets walled by all kinds of Taunters, if you don't pack Surf.

Blastoise @ Leftovers
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Surf
- support move

Countercoat Blastoise.

Blastoise's movepool kinda limits it to being a Utility pokemon, but don't let that stop you.
 
Same as ADV I guess... utility's the way to go, rapid spin and haze when you need to and can, stack defenses...

Oh, and I thought torrent activated at 1/3 (33.3%).
 
The fact that it can use Physical Moves now without losing STAB is a nice boost. It can run EQ to whack Electrics in UU, which is kinda cool.

With Stealth Rocks there's a bit more of a call for UU Rapid Spinners (where-as before only a couple of UU Pokes could Spike, making Spin less useful).

Aqua Ring is better than nothing, which is all it had before, so that's another bonus that it's gotten.

And of course it can still do all the cool things it could do before, it hasn't really lost anything with the changes in D/P. The only bad thing I see happening to Cannon Turtle is the addition of new Water Types who might steal his thunder.

Pretty much all the sets have been covered by the OP really so I won't try and add a set.
 
Never liked it in advance in any metagame, it just seems bland and uninteresting. Now, Rapid Spin is very valuable, but I wouldn't go with Surf and 3 utility moves. Maybe a physical set with Waterfall/EQ/Rapid Spin/Filler, this being either Aqua Jet, Yawn, Toxic or whatever other good move.
 
I don't understand how blastoise is the only starter that doesn't get a boosting move like Bulk up, Swords Dance, etc. oh well uu for blastoise
 
Rapid spin and haze is just enough for balstoise. He only need a wish support. But sometimes it can be hard to use it.
 
Yeah I think D/P didn't change much for ol' Blastoise. It'll still be the same solid UU bulky water. It'll probably be the best UU Rapid Spinner out there [unless I'm forgetting someone], so it'll find plenty of use.
 
spydiman said:
He only need a wish support.
Click to expand...
You can say the same for any bulky water who do the job much better than Blastoise does; "only needs wish support" is pretty meaningless.
 
I'm interested in Aqua Ring Blastoise. It's a reasonably tankish Pokemon, and the Aqua Ring boost + Leftovers could be nice. Might also help it out when dealing with the damaging effects of Sandstream.
 
Blastoise didn't improve much from DP, no, but it get's Physical STAB now..that's probably the only good thing.
 
Blastoise's problem, like many of the starters, is that its stats have always been decent, but not great. Unfortunetely, Blastoise is the height of mediocrity. Spinning and Aqua Ring are cool, but it just can't deal enough damage.
 
Why aren't Mirror Coat and Counter listed? Blastoise has enough special defense to live through unSTABed Thunderbolts and some STABed ones.
 
It makes a pretty nifty utility Poke. I find Roar is much more useful than Haze on Blastoise. If they switch in a ghost to block Rapid Spin you can Roar it out and then Spin away. Aqua Jet's also useful for getting rid of Reversalers.

This thing really isn't going to kill anything but it has usefulness in being a utility poke and a bulky water at the same time. Plus it has friggin cannons on its back. How cool is that?
 
It should have had less Base speed and more HP.

Aqua Ring
Substitute
Protect
Toxic

Sounds pretty annoying, could be pretty good with Magnezone support. Poison types probably won't be used that much anyway.
 
So I hear it has two cannons.

Always liked Blastoise. Probably because it killed Charizards with relatively ease, which was like the most popular pokeyman back then. Fastforward to today, with a few Special Attack EVs, it can scare off Salamences which isn't a bad use. Though Tyranitar is now out of his league thanks to the Sandstream bonus.

With the release of R/S it got trumped by so many better options it's almost sad. The only thing it has going for it is Haze/Roar/Rapid Spin - only Tentracruel and Donphan have access to either Haze/Roar and Rapid Spin - and D/P totally didn't make up for it. Though Venusaur has the same problem.

It can still take out Rocks and Grounds in UU and with Leftovers, Aqua Ring and perhaps Chesto Resting, who knows.
 
Movesets
Blastoise @ Leftovers
- Surf
- Haze/Rapid Spin/Rest/Substitute/Yawn/Toxic/Roar/Aqua Jet
- Haze/Rapid Spin/Rest/Substitute/Yawn/Toxic/Roar/Aqua Jet
- Haze/Rapid Spin/Rest/Substitute/Yawn/Toxic/Roar/Aqua Jet
Click to expand...

You could just have said "Surf and 3 other moves" here. Listing it like this is useless.

Surf/Toxic/Rest/Sleep Talk makes a good UU tank as ever. One of these things that gays up UU by being defensive. Outclassed by all other Waters in standard in their own ways though. Aqua Ring seems like a waste of time, if you manage to tank against whatever switches in chances are they're desperate for a Blastoise counter anyway.
 
Blastoise is one of those Pokemon that's a jack of all trades, king of none. Bleh... The only reason I'd ever use Blastoise out of UU is if for Rapid Spin.
 
Man, blastoise is still being shafted. =( O well, I'll still be using him in OU, lol right? Using the restalk version of rest/sleep talk/ surf/ ice beam. He seems to be ok as a tank in netbattle in OU. Though I know that in D/P there are a lot of crazy physical sweepers running around. Just using him as a secondary tank.
 
Not that you people would use blastoise in OU, I am, lol im crazy, im gona try, but would the move aqua jet be a viable move. Its like quick attack that always strikes first, if I used this in OU, after a sacrifice, would aqua jet OHKO an infernape with or without choice band since it always attacks first? I'm thinking of maybe a choice bander 252 atk/ 252 hp/ 4 def or a wall (lefties) with 212 def/240 hp/56 atk. For wall maybe, rest/ sleep talk/ avalanche/ aqua jet.

I really want to use this guy and make him work somehow in OU, lol. I know you guys will probably think im crazy lol.
 
Wow, the last post was about two months ago... I found this thread through the thread index and figured I may as well post here instead of making a new topic.

Blastoise is my favourite Pokemon and I've found an interesting moveset through trial and error:

Mixtoise

Blastoise@Leftovers
Hardy/any neutral nature

Earthquake
Haze
Surf
Ice Beam

You can do what you want with the EVs depending on what purpose you want Blastoise to serve; I spread them around focusing on Sp. attack and Speed. (People seem to think Blastoise is in the 50 Base speed area, I've outsped Suicune and even Gardevoir a few times and have people cry "Quick Claw hax!" before they noticed I had leftovers, so this can catch stuff even in the high 80's range off-guard)

Overall, this build is like slow, mixed sweeper with above-average defenses; I've used this Blastoise with super-high payoff on Netbattle simply because Earthquake (and sometimes Haze) catches so many opponents off-guard. Haze is there for BP teams and other boosters (not EndRevers though, as Blastoise'll be OHKO'd without Aqua Jet and it has better things to do than use that). Earthquake is for when you predict switches- for instance, I've brought Blastoise in on something like Arcanine, and used Earthquake instead of Surf, predicting a switch. Even when they don't switch, Earthquake does a significant amount of damage, and if they do and bring in an electric type, you've hurt them really badly. Then you can proceed to a suitable counter, or do whatever.

Personally I think my set is a perfect example of the "jack of all trades, master of none" that Great Sage mentioned. Unless you're hitting SE this set does mediocre damage, but I've found that Haze and Earthquake can be so useful. Counters for it are Ludicolo (who will wall you to death), Electric fast electrics that have average defenses (Raikou), and Blissey/Snorlax. Unfortunately Earthquake doesn't do enough damage to their massive HP; Surf/Ice beam will just be soaked up.

Edit: Oh man, I'm probably going to turn this into an essay, but I thought that maybe because of the increase in usage of Stealth Rock/Spikes, Rapid Spin (maybe even Roar, since pseudo-hazing is becoming more common as well?) would be more useful than haze. What do you guys think?
 
Countertoise? To be honest, I'm not really feeling like I am in a creative moment. Most of you guys have mentioned any movesets I was thinking anyways. Lol. Ok here it is. Not sure how well it does, but meh:

Blastoise@Leftovers
Toxic
Aqua Ring
Protect
Counter/Mirror Coat/Surf

It's like an annoyer. >.> I'm not quite sure how much Aqua Ring+Leftovers restores but it should be annoying with Protect+Toxic. You restore HP and then Counter or Mirror Coat any other attack. I'm not quite sure to be honest. Oh and I say Counter because Toxic doesn't affect Steel, and Steel types are mostly physical. Mirror coat for Poison types though I guess. Though Surf's probably the best choice. Not sure. O.o
 
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