Hmm Leafeon.

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Cactuar

THIS IS NOT MY IDEA AS A REPLACEMENT FOR LEAFEONS STANDAR BP SET.

Well I've been looking at many peoples teams and I've seen something which surprises me. Wheres the Leafeon? He's a great grass type and he looks cool too (If you like that sorta thing). So heres his base stats:

Hp: 65, Attk: 110, Def: 130, SpAtk: 60, SpDef: 65, Spd: 95.

So this puts him with good Attk, Def and Spd. 'He's Grass and his SpAtk SUCKS, rendering him useless' you say? Well I say NO. Look at this moveset for an example:

Name: Sleepy...
Move 1: Leaf Blade
Move 2: X-Scissor
Move 3: Yawn
Move 4: Swords Dance/Attract/Protect
Item: Hmm not sure here, Focus Band maybe?
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 ATK, 126 SPD, 126 DEF, 6 SPDEF.

Ok so you Yawn to start off with and then proceed to Swords Dance, or Attract to render them completely useless or protect if they have a chance of KOing you in that 1 turn. Then just Leaf Blade/X-Scissor away. Protect is also great for seeing what type of moveset they have.

The only moves that can really take on Leafeon are Ice Beam and Fire moves. Flying types and steel types are physical based and will usually be be stoped by his steadfast defence and countered with a Yawn and switch. Starmie is a major threat but thats only if they have ice beam, and actually stay in.

Leafeon is a really good switch onto Fighting, Rock, Ground, Water, Psychic, Grass, Electric and Dark types and do some good damage, most being Super Effective. He can also take a hit due to his great Defense which is up there with Pokemon like Rhyperior. He is also an EXCELLENT counter to Swampert, being faster and 4x effective with Leaf Blade which would be sure to 1HitKO it with max attack.

I know that most people here don't like the Eeveelutions because of their poor movepool and often frailness, but I think that Leafeon has an effective movepool and can quite easily take a hit. I really like him because of this and he deserves a place in many teams.

So the question is, why aren't people using him?

EDIT: Jeez i was in a rush wasn't i? I forgot some important weaknesses :O
 
I would say Leafeon is one of the best Swords Dance Passers of this gen. Even able to pseudo phaze skarm from stopping it from getting off a pass.

Does it really matter if Leafeon is commonly seen or not? If anything the less it's seen the more of a surprise it'll be for your adversary when you do bring it out.
 
No it doesn't matter that he isn't being used. I'm new to competetive and I just wanted to know why he isn't being used.
 
Leafeon has really cool stats, but unfortunately is limited by several factors. It'll have a really hard time against a good quick boltbeamer (ice beam on 65/65 hp/spdef hurts bad) and while base 95 speed is cool, it's still not quite enough to sweep. Getting swords dance is nice, but since so many things will force leafeon to switch (most spec sweepers and things that resist its not-so-great type coverage) make most people drop what they're doing to get off a safe switch.

I really like leafeon, and I've thought about him for a while. He has a lot of things going for him, but so many things that hold him back.
 
matg1002 said:
I really like leafeon, and I've thought about him for a while. He has a lot of things going for him, but so many things that hold him back.
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Seconded. Leafeon is definitely an interesting Poke, but as said, there are too many threats out there(Starmie with Ice Beam tramples all over this thing). Leafeon, I believe, can be used a Baton Passer in early game, and might even be able to pull of a sweep at mid to end game.
 
If only it would have gotten Chlorophyl instead of Leaf Guard. This thing coulda been one of the new stars of the Sunny Day Team.
 
Blackbeltsam said:
If only it would have gotten Chlorophyl instead of Leaf Guard. This thing coulda been one of the new stars of the Sunny Day Team.
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Not really, because Solar Beam is special and Leafeon has high Atk not spatk.
Stuff like Exeggutor and such would still do a much better job.
 
Maestro said:
Not really, because Solar Beam is special and Leafeon has high Atk not spatk.
Stuff like Exeggutor and such would still do a much better job.
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He's aiming for the speed boost, so you can sweep with Leafeon. He never mentioned teh beamz.
 
what also works imo

Leafeon @ that scarf that boost speed
Adamant -> pump into att enough spd to outspeed most threads (it can) and rest in hp
AA
X-scissor
Leaf blade
Return/Iron tail

this works aswell giving that you got max speed on adamant
that's 289 with a 50% boost that's 433.5 (roughly >.>) speed
making it outspeed alot of things

maybe not other scarfers
 
_Rex_ said:
Starmie with Ice Beam tramples all over this thing
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Not really. If you give Leafeon just 120 SpD EVs, Leafeon can take an Ice Beam from max-SpA Starmie and survive. Meanwhile, the smogon analysis of Starmie doesn't give Starmie any Defense EVs or a +Def nature, and just 172 HP... with that, Leafeon will take out Starmie with Leaf Blade with a +Att nature and 148 Att EVs.

There's no way that a Starmie would switch in on Leafeon, so in that respect Leafeon is safe. Would Leafeon switch in on Starmie? Probably not. But then, that's like saying that you wouldn't switch in Skarmory on a Houndoom.


Meanwhile, I think that Leafeon might be able to do well.

Leafeon @ Belue Berry
- Natural Gift (HP Electric)
- Leaf Blade
- Aerial Ace
- Yawn/Swords Dance/Return/Synthesis/Wish

I'll use Gyarados as my benchmark for the moment. Give it 248 Speed EVs, and it can outspeed max-speed Gyarados. 32 Def EVs will allow Leafeon to survive a max-Attack Ice Fang from Life Orb Gyarados with one DD. We then pump the remaining EVs into Attack, giving 228 EVs and +Att nature. So now I will run through all of the Gyarados sets listed in the 'official' analysis thread:

BulkyGyara: NG Ele does 86.5% - 102% damage to Gyara, Ice Fang does 37%-43.5% damage to Leafeon without a DD and 54%-64% with 1 DD.
Life Orb DDGyara: NG Ele does 116.5% - 138% damage to Gyara, Ice Fang does 57%-67% damage to Leafeon without a DD and 84%-99% with 1 DD.
ReturnDDGyara: NG Ele does same as for BulkyGyara, Return does 42.5%-50.2% after 1 DD.
CBGyara: NG Ele does same as for DDGyara, Ice Fang does 65.5%-77.5% damage to Leafeon.
RestTalker: NG Ele does 90.5%-107.5% damage to Gyara, Stone Edge does 29%-34.5% damage to Leafeon.

Note that this list does not account for the effect of Intimidate - so we're assuming that Leafeon has switched in on Gyarados.

More importantly, Leafeon is carrying a surprise Electric attack, so those who are using Gyarados as bait for an Electric attack for Electivire are less likely to switch out to Electivire, and are more likely to try to DD, not expecting Leafeon to hit too hard.

Of course, NG Electric is probably not the best option available, but it's worth considering, if only as a counter to Gyara-vire - go with Ground (Apicot Berry) to hit Fire and Steel types, or Fighting (Salac Berry) to hit Steel, Ice, and Normal fairly hard. You could also go with Ice (Ganlon Berry) to have a strong move against Flying types (especially the Dragon/Flying types) - although if you do this, watch out for Steel types. Another option might be to go with a Yache Berry, which is also Ice type, but also reduces damage from an Ice type attack, thereby serving two different purposes.

Leaf Blade is a given, of course, and Aerial Ace is obviously the best option for the third attack (X-scissor is more powerful, but doesn't have type coverage comparable to Aerial Ace). The final move can change how Leafeon is played, depending on your choice - Return is really most useful if paired with Apicot Berry, giving you an attack that will hit flying types with some serious power. Yawn helps with getting rid of pokemon that might be dangers, Swords Dance may be useful in getting Leafeon into the position to do major damage, Synthesis is best if used on a Sunny Day team (where Leafeon's ability also comes into play), while Wish lets Leafeon double as a team healer.
 
Please stop posting these terrible sets guys, Leafeon is not going to do anything with moves like Aerial Ace, Natural Gift, Iron Tail, Return, or Dig. It's a great Baton Passer/Wisher, and should stick to its strengths rather than try to use a weak gimmick set.

I really think people need to start playing Advance before they try and make movesets. It's painfully obvious that a lot of members here have never had a good battle in their life, and yet think they've got the theory aspect of Pokemon down.
 
Well, I actually use Leafeon Effectively on one of my teams using Ninjask.
I lead with Max Spd Ninjask, and set up trying to get a swords dance in. Then, after 2 or 3 turns, if I haven't gotten a swords dance I will BP to one of my other pokemon. Usually Rhyperior but sometimes Leafeon. And after 2 or 3 Speed Boosts, Max Att/Max SpDef Adamant Leafeon can put a hurting on a few things. I use Max SpDef because that way, leafeon can take a few hits from that spectrum, and his speed is already decent before the Speed boosts.

Also, the moveset I use it this.

Leafeon - Life Orb
@Leaf Guard
EVS: 252 Att/ 252 Spdef/ 6 Hp (Adamant)
- Leaf Blade
- X-Scissor
- Aerial Ace
- Facade/Yawn/Swords Dance

The last slot is really just filler. Mainly the first three for pretty powerful hits, then Facade if you don't have a Sunny Dayer and you want Leafeon to take a status and still fight (Like Burn or Toxic) while yawn is there to help when you predict switching. SD if you want.

I am going to try your idea, Aielyn, with the Natural Cure Electric. I think that could work out pretty well, though I don't really want to lose the boost of my Life Orb.
 
Are you all serious? Aerial Ace is worthless. What are you going to Aerial Ace? Infernape?

Here, try this one:

Swords Dance
Leaf Blade
Yawn/Roar
Baton Pass

and read the Leafeon analysis and/or actually play competitive Pokemon before providing advice to other members. You all are doing nothing but actually harming them.

quoted for emphasis

Please stop posting these terrible sets guys, Leafeon is not going to do anything with moves like Aerial Ace, Natural Gift, Iron Tail, Return, or Dig. It's a great Baton Passer/Wisher, and should stick to its strengths rather than try to use a weak gimmick set.
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i'm watching this thread. if you want to learn how to use leafeon, fine - start a discussion about it. throw around some ideas. but don't advocate a set unless you actually know it works (and i know enough pokemon theory and so does tenchi to tell you if you put iron tail on a leafeon it isn't "working")
 
tenchi17 said:
Please stop posting these terrible sets guys, Leafeon is not going to do anything with moves like Aerial Ace, Natural Gift, Iron Tail, Return, or Dig. It's a great Baton Passer/Wisher, and should stick to its strengths rather than try to use a weak gimmick set.

I really think people need to start playing Advance before they try and make movesets. It's painfully obvious that a lot of members here have never had a good battle in their life, and yet think they've got the theory aspect of Pokemon down.
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You're trying to tell us that a pokemon with 110 base Attack and 95 base Speed should stick to baton-passing? There are other Eeveelutions that are far better-suited to baton passing and wishing. How about we don't just stick to single movesets, and instead try to make new movesets that might, you know, discover new strengths?

And I'm not sure you've realised this, but nobody should be playing "Advance" in order to work out how these moves go - especially Natural Gift on Leafeon, neither of which existed in Advance. All of the moves you just listed have their uses on some pokemon, and intelligent choice of moves, even ones that seem "weak", can make a pokemon particularly potent.

You call these sets "weak gimmick sets" - please indicate exactly WHY they are so... I've provided detailed explanations as to how my Natural Gift set works, why don't you pick it apart with an example of a problem with it?

Oh, and grow up.


EDIT:
chaos said:
Are you all serious? Aerial Ace is worthless. What are you going to Aerial Ace? Infernape?
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Hello, I'm Heracross, I have a 120 base power attack that hits Leafeon for Supereffective. If Leafeon wants to survive me, he had better have a move that can take me out.
 
Are you serious? I'm sorry to be mean, but PLEASE learn more about competitive play before posting movesets like that (and then trying to defend them). While Natural Gift Electric might be a nice surprise every once in a while, Aerial Ace is completely useless. 110 base attack and 95 base speed does not mean that Swords Dance is wasted - it still has Leaf Blade to work with. HOWEVER, a smart option is to pass that Swords Dance when Leafeon has served it's purpose instead of trying to cover all the bases (which it's movepool can't support - Aerial Ace? X-Scissor? non-STAB Return? Dig? What the hell?)

Don't post telling people to grow up when you aren't mature enough to take responsibility for your actions. You posted a mediocre moveset, own up to it.
 
Aielyn said:
Note that this list does not account for the effect of Intimidate - so we're assuming that Leafeon has switched in on Gyarados.
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This is the problem. You haven't even accounted for the most probable scenario, that being Gyarados switching into Leafeon to reduce the attack boost that is going to pass. And why would you use Leafeon as a Gyarados counter when there are better things for it and more importantly better things for Leafeon to do?
 
"There's better Eeveelutions" is a funny excuse. The only thing they have in common is that they learn a few of the same moves and they all evolve from Eevee. If anything, compare Leafeon to other Grassers. AFAIK the only thing that comes close to being as good in Swords Dance passing is Celebi, and that's just because you usually wouldn't expect it to.
 
Just because something has stats like that doesn't mean it should go all out sweeper, cause there's something that can do it better. On the other hand, support with Baton Pass while still having offense in the form of a pretty strong STAB move called leaf blade isn't such a bad idea. Just throwing on offense on anything like that and arguing that 'it beats pokemon X with move Y' is pointless. You're fighting a TEAM of 6 pokemon where something will cover another's weakness. You can't expect every pokemon to cover everything, that's just not how you play this game.
 
since someone else was comparing the eeveelutions in such a fashion, i was, too. i am not saying i would only use leafeon to pass SD

honestly, do you guys even read these posts?

edit: just out of curiousity, i looked at the other pokemon that get sword dance and baton pass, and except for celebi (who has better things to do) and ninjask (a one trick pony if there ever was one), there are not a lot of pokemon much better for the job
 
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