Differences between the 3v3 and 6v6 metagame

I haven't seen a recent thread on this so thought I'd start a little discussion.

I've noticed very few Blisseys on PBR wifi (less than 5 in 150+ matches) and fewer stallish Pokemon in general, though this could be partially due to stall teams being less popular outside of smogon. There are still plenty of Garchomps, Tyranitars, Starmies, Gengars, Brelooms and most other OU, especially Togekiss.

3v3 also adds an element not in 6v6 at all- seeing the enemy's team beforehand. However, since neither person knows what 3 will be chosen, should they prepare for the wrong 3 Pokemon they could be royally screwed. I tend to pick my 3 by choosing a starter and picking my next 2 to cover what he'll have to switch out of, and cross my fingers from there- it seems like your starting Pokemon is far more crucial since you have half the number of teammates to fall back on should you start at a disadvantage.

I know a lot of people don't consider 3v3 a real metagame and it really isn't, but it's still fun and pretty convenient. Since I have no 6v6 experience and I stopped playing netbattle in '04, what are some of the other primary differences between 3v3 and 6v6?
 
Not being anywhere near being able to counter every pokemon that could be thrown at you is a big difference. Offence definatly > defence here.
 
Yeah, in things like Battle Tower, I normally have a tank (Impish Swampert/Rhyperior for example), a choice sweeper (Scarfcross, ect), and either a utility/sweeper or a plain sweeper. I love using things like Yanmega and Gengar who can effectively do 2 jobs in one moveset (sleep + sweep).
 
IMO you need a lead / sweeper, a Bulky sweeper, and another to even up the special to physical attack ratios.
 
Never really thought about 3v3 too much, but I'm guessing with fewer walls ScarfChomp could be pretty beastly. Not having Cresselia available to switch in would make stopping Outrage alot harder.
 
After doing the 6v6 thing for seven years now, I find a lot more fun in the 3v3 style of PBR than the typical metagame. I've logged well over 100 hours of nothing but WiFi battles on my PBR save.

I wouldn't say that the reduced number of stall Pokémon is a result of being away from the Smogon metagame, but just the style of 3v3. Blissey use is definitely diminished, but one wonders if that would still be the case without the introduction of Close Combat this generation. I still see a good amount of teams with stallish Pokémon like Cresselia, Slowbro, and Hippowdon, though they usually aren't brought to the battle. Actually, the defensive Pokémon I see on teams that are actually used the most are Swampert, Gastrodon, and Dusknoir.

The Pokémon usage is actually pretty identical to what we consider OU, except with an emphasis on offense rather than defense. Bulkier attackers like Gyarados, Garchomp, Metagross, and Togekiss can be found on practically every team, while fragile sweepers such as Gengar, Weavile, and Infernape are painfully common as well. Actually, the only Pokémon of the OU offensive mold that I don't often see is Heracross. So the Pokémon used are largely the same, with a higher premium on offense rather than defense, as a result of the smaller team size.

Aside from that, the two major differences are items and strategy. In 6v6, Focus Sash is largely useless with the prevalence of Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Sandstorm. In 3v3, you might as well just assume every damn Pokémon has it. It gets exceedingly tedious at times, especially seeing it on things that have no business with a sash (I ran into a Focus Sash Skarmory a while back), but it is something you definitely need to prepare for. If I see Gengar, Weavile or Jolteon, I always assume it will be sashed. The overuse of Focus Sash also leads to an increase in the use of priority moves. If you don't have at least one (I try to carry two or even three), you will be in trouble. Or, you could just bring Hippowdon or Tyranitar...

Even more game breaking than Focus Sash is Choice Scarf. This item can totally ruin your day. It is good enough in 6v6, but with as many walls as there are on such teams, you can afford to make a mistake, and once the Choice Scarf surprise is out of the bag, it is usually pretty easy to contain. Not so much in 3v3, where a single error means game over. Want a surefire way to win a few battles? Stick Choice Scarf on something stupid like Magnezone, Entei, or Lopunny and get a free kill that induces rage on your opponent.

That brings me to the strategy aspect... (Good lord, this is why I don't post much... tl;dr) The strategy in 3v3 is very unique. Getting to see your opponent's Pokémon beforehand gives you a new set of things to think about. Which three did they bring? Who will they start with? Are you prepared for every threat they have? A lot of times, the lead Pokémon can make or break the battle. And again, because there are only three Pokémon on each side, each mistake counts that much more.

I really enjoy the mind games it introduces. I play with a very high risk, high reward style, and 3v3 suits it perfectly. I will often make a move selection, even on turn one, based on what I assume the opponent will have brought. I can't tell you how many times I had my Arcanine use Thunder Fang on a Metagross turn one because Gyarados was in their six, and had it pay off. Actually, I can't remember a time when I tried that and it didn't work.

Also, the battles are much more diverse. One thing I don’t like about Netbattle and Shoddy is that everyone who plays those is united by the same community, and the teams and sets used on them become painfully standardized. With WiFi battles on PBR, you don’t need a friend code or anything, so the battles are truly random. You’re playing with people around the world who have vastly unique strategies. Unlike with Shoddy, every battle isn’t against the same old sandstorm stall teams. While the usual the standard suspects are still largely the norm, it is still very common to get battles with people using unique strategies and more seldom used Pokemon, especially against Japanese opponents. Japanese opponents also use the hell out of Azumarill, who can be quite a nuisance.

Oh yea, and Jumpman brought up cheating (not sure if he meant pertaining to this but whatever), which reminded me of another nice aspect of PBR WiFi battles. There is a filter that doesn't work on friend code battles but does work on random battles that checks for Mystery Zone Pokemon, excess EVs, illegal traits and moves, and probably some more stuff. So if you're playing this mode, you won't have to worry about facing illegal Pokemon as the game won't let a competitor battle online with them.

Ok, too much for now… I will conclude by saying that I am in love with Hitmonchan.
 
that was very well-written, and i agree with every point made. i've had plenty of battles go awry due to misprediction on team selections.

i would also like to say that was the first time i think i've seen anything positive written about PBR.
 
@Fish: If you are in love with Hitmonchan, you may be the guy who swept me 3-0 with him once, how embarassing. And I do have a priority move on each of my 3 teams, they are very important like you've noticed, especially with the tendency towards fast weak sweepers.

I also use Arcanine and have thunder fanged many a Gyarados, though with a choice band it has screwed me when they don't switch. You can outpredict yourself when you assume your opponent is better than they actually are by predicting switches that a smart player would make but a dumb player wouldn't. Speaking of Arcanine, adamant CB flare blitz is pretty amazing, and CB extremespeed is a 2hko on a surprising amount of fast/weak guys like Jolteon.

Like I said earlier, I have no D/P 6v6 experience, but watching the RMT forum and reading posts about the metagame makes it sound very stallish and Blissey-heavy. I really like the fact that in 3v3 you can get a good challenge with some actual variety, and using less than standard Pokes helps by making you unpredictable and harder to counter in a metagame where losing 1 Poke is a big deal. Also, did I mention no fat pink whore on every team? I've also seen few Cresselias, though I use her myself when I have a dragon weak. Togekiss is a real bitch though, it doesn't have many counters it seems like.
 
D/P could be called Blissey heavy but definitely not stall-heavy. There's less stalling than advance.

I do agree that 3v3 on PBR can be interesting but I really really wish they'd included 6v6 also. I don't really agree that the prevalence of Blissey and Cresselia makes things uninteresting. Blissey has been on every D/P team I have made on Shoddy, and I really don't care.
 
Cresselia I agree, but Blissey not being around lets me use twice the special based guys I normally could. Like Raikou.
 
I haven't played the PBR 3v3 so a lot of what I say is probably Theorycraft to an extent.

With a shorter "bench", one would expect less switching and phazing, which in turn makes Spikes/SR/TS less appealing. Aside from Focus Sash, other items like berries should be able to turn the battle since surprises are going to be devastating due a smaller usable team.

Status (particularly Sleep) could easily demolish a team. Sleep clause [WTF PBR has no Sleep clause? lol]means 1/6 of your team in 6v6 is incapacitated whereas 1/3 of your team is useless in 3v3. Reflect/Light Screen/weather moves may last for most of the battle since battles logically will be shorter.

Biggest key IMO would be getting the best matchup early on and finding an opportunity to stat-up and sweep. Bulky sweepers should be even more important in 3v3 meta since you usually aren't going to bring multiple "walls" into battle.
 
The battle style that you're talking about is called Stadium mode (if not here, elsewhere). 3 on 3 is battle tower, PBR wifi is Stadium mode.

I'm happy that PBR has a hidden teir system, it lets you face better opponents based on your wins. Once you get up in the ranks, disconnectors become nonexistant. Something that annoys me is the lack of a sleep clause, and the number of people that will abuse that. I really need a Breloom counter (and possibly Aura Sphere/Arial Ace) =P.

But, yeah, Focus Sash is painfully common. That's why bulky sweepers like Gyarados/Togekiss/Metagross work so well, you can afford to take a hit if you leave the opponent with one Hp. Moves like Destiny Bond also work well (stuff like Ralts with Focus Sash, Trick Room, and Destiny Bond has appeared multiple times). With the generally shorter games, moves like Trick Room, Sunny Day, and Light Screen are much more useful, IMO. Even Sandstorm (the move) could be useful (for taking out Sashers).

I've been wanting to try out Counter Gengar on PBR. Counter, Focus Sash, and Destiny Bond would take out two Pokemon, leaving you with something trapped and alone.
 
Generally, moves that incapacitate a pokemon are, say, twice as good. Sleep is brutal. One of my favorite pokemon to use in 3v3 is exeggutor due to the sleep/explosion combo; pokemon like him are a good reason to keep focus sashes on your team.
 
I'm happy that PBR has a hidden teir system, it lets you face better opponents based on your wins. Once you get up in the ranks, disconnectors become nonexistant. Something that annoys me is the lack of a sleep clause, and the number of people that will abuse that. I really need a Breloom counter (and possibly Aura Sphere/Arial Ace) =P.

I had no idea it had this. That makes total sense considering most of my fights now are against decent OU teams, whereas early on there were lots of easily beaten uber teams and non-ev trained stuff. I just figured the noobs/young kids got frustrated with losing and stopped playing wifi and mostly good players were left.

I suppose this is also why it tends to rematch you against the same players surprisingly often.
 
i would also like to say that was the first time i think i've seen anything positive written about PBR.
Yea, there definitely isn't much PBR love, and for good reason. The game itself is really lazily made and doesn't offer anything unique, aside from the 3v3 random battles, which was enough to draw me to it. It was definitely worth the cash for me, but I understand why most people want nothing to do with it.
Raikou said:
@Fish: If you are in love with Hitmonchan, you may be the guy who swept me 3-0 with him once, how embarrassing.
I hope it was me! I try to watch out for names I see on Smogon when I’m battling, but I don’t recall seeing you, unless it was back when the game first came out. I used to use a Sky Uppercut/Thunderpunch/Ice Punch/Mach Punch ‘Chan with max attack. Now I have moved to a much more unique max HP/sp. def Bulk Up set. My little 50 base HP tank…
I also use Arcanine and have thunder fanged many a Gyarados, though with a choice band it has screwed me when they don't switch. You can outpredict yourself when you assume your opponent is better than they actually are by predicting switches that a smart player would make but a dumb player wouldn't. Speaking of Arcanine, adamant CB flare blitz is pretty amazing, and CB extremespeed is a 2hko on a surprising amount of fast/weak guys like Jolteon.
I use Howl with the three moves you listed above. With a boost or two it becomes ridiculous, though I wish the type coverage was a little better. And yeah, Flare Blitz is ridiculous.
…but Blissey not being around lets me use twice the special based guys I normally could. Like Raikou.
I never thought of it before, but all the teams I have on there are primarily physical, with the odd Choice Spec user here and there. I guess I still have it firmly planted in my head that special attacking can be futile since I’ve had to deal with Chansey/Blissey since forever. Maybe I’ll give some more special attackers a try.
Little Green Yoda said:
Aside from Focus Sash, other items like berries should be able to turn the battle since surprises are going to be devastating due a smaller usable team.
I forgot about the new resist berries when I wrote my original post, but indeed they are also something you won’t see much of in 6v6 that pops up in 3v3. While they are still pretty rare, Wacan Berry Gyarados and Yache Berry dragons pop up enough to warrant a mention.
kamikaen said:
I'm happy that PBR has a hidden teir system, it lets you face better opponents based on your wins.
I just wish I could see my own record, the same way you can in Diamond and Pearl.
Once you get up in the ranks, disconnectors become nonexistant. Something that annoys me is the lack of a sleep clause, and the number of people that will abuse that.
Actually, I haven’t had too much trouble with sleep abuse, and when I have, it’s a Japanese player. That may sound like generalizing, but I have had maybe ten Japanese players break sleep clause, while not a single opponent with an English name has done so against me. Granted, I play primarily Japanese opponents it seems. Also, while I’m ranting about them, Japanese players are also pretty sore losers. More times than not they will forfeit before the match is over. They won’t just forfeit outright though, they will fight on, even when there is virtually no chance to win, til the final turn where you're about to do them in before throwing up the white flag. Maybe they just don’t like hearing their equivalent of “And it’s a total victory for the red corner!”
I've been wanting to try out Counter Gengar on PBR. Counter, Focus Sash, and Destiny Bond would take out two Pokemon, leaving you with something trapped and alone.
I tried Hypnosis/Shadow Ball/Counter/Explosion@Focus Sash recently, and it made me feel dirty…
 
It's definately good to pack a sleep talker for when you see a common sleeper on their lineup. Otherwise, for opponents who use a fast sleeper like Crobat/Gengar, I usually find it's best to leave the sleeping Pokemon in and wait for it to wake up or die provided they don't switch and try to set up. If they have a slow sleeper like Breloom it's a bit easier to deal with, I have lots of things that can 1hko him before he pulls off a spore (and most use toxic orb, not sash).

I don't go by Raikou on PBR, but I usually have the Roserade lady outfit. Which is pretty damn cool.
 
PBR Random battles are fun. The 3v3 metagame is a whole lot different from 6v6 mainly because of the "open field" of "who's he's going to send out, did i cover all 6 pokemon on the team" by knowing all their Pokemon prior to the match.

I do have to say that berries get a chance to shine b/c Sitrus can still help quite a bit. I see more UU/BL pokemon on Wi-Fi because it's easier to defeat opponents b/c some don't have the exp. with those Pokemon (and you can still have another OU kept on your team for back-up).

I haven't gotten on for a while b/c my PBR just never finds anybody .. I was guessing that nobody else played it, but I guess with this thread, there are still some people. :o

Does Smogon have a PBR Wi-Fi thread or something?
 
One has to keep in mind the physical and special sides even more. It's nice to think-- tank, sweeper, utility-- but if say your tank was regice, your sweeper was Specsmence and your Utility was Jolteon/Starmie, one Blissey in the tower could screw you. >_>

Oh, and shedinja coverage. :P
 
If you have something that can Sleep and Explode, you already take out two Pokemon in 3v3. Speed is very important in 3v3, as it's usually over quick. Choice Banders and Scarfers are used more than stat-uppers in 3v3, too.
 
I think it's pretty important to have a sturdy Pokemon in slot #1 just for Stealth Rock. Focus Sash can be crucial, it negates the Shedinja threat as well and you will usually find out what has Leftovers quickly too. Otherwise, offense is the way to go.
 
I think that setup moves such as Rain Dance, TR and Sunny Day, much like in double battles, are far more valuable in a 3 vs 3 Metagame than a 6 vs 6. These short-lasting moves, fit nicely with the fast-paced action of 3 vs 3.


However, the silent assassin of 3 vs 3, is double-powder. Double-powder, memento-pluff can cripple an entire team, and force a switch to something as badly crippled. Think about it. If you can't outspeed (which would be impossible if PluffBall had Sunny Day support), then it could potentially leave, 1 pokemon sleep, another paralyzed and a third with half of their original Atk and SpAtk stats.


This would allow you to bring a quick-setup pokemon like Bellyzard or Bellywrath and sweep like their's no tomorrow. Bellyzard is suggested over Poliwrath due to potential Sunny Day.

I'm jumping into a 3 vs 3 Metagame as the team itself is faster to build than a standard 6 vs 6 OU team.
 
Difference between 3v3 and 6v6: 3v3 blows dick, 6v6 is awesome.

No, really. In 3v3, it is a very fast paced battle; it's basically pull off your strategy or die. 6v6 is a delicate balance of power, defense, countering, set up / support, and sweeping. They are both fun, but I prefer 6v6 because I like playing the mind/prediction games.
 
To me, Shedinja shines in 3-on-3 battles. Many people on PBR have disconnected due to the fact that their remaining Pokemon(s) cannot hit it. It's much easier to get Shedinja in than on 6-on-6 battles.
 
Meh, having played 3vs3 for various Nintendo events since 1999 as well as putting up with it in the Battle Tower and stuff, I personally grew tired of it. 3vs3 is definately more offensive in nature, as you can only pull off "simple" strategies (some of which are complex, but simplistic compared to what you can do with 6vs6), and like it's been siad, it's more killed or be killed. Just my thoughts on it.
 
I definitely agree that things like Wacan berry can really shine as a Gyarados sporting one can shrug off most NonSTAB electric attacks while it safely DDs up (and probably doesn't even need to bother considering using a moveslot for Taunt in this environment most of the time, though it will shut down Breloom).

I prefer to reduce some fo the frostbite with a berry for my Dragonite, keeping him in the back slot where he stands the best chance to possibly sweep if he has to come in.
 
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