4th Gen Team (Seeking advice, long post)

switch97 · May 19, 2011

Hi guys, I originally made a post on another forum (and my apologies to the moderators for posting in the wrong spot) but I'll bring over what I have on that post to here, including my responses I received :)

My first post had some errors, which I will correct here (Such as I forgot to list my EV's, and some of my item combinations were wrong)

My first post

First off, I'd like to introduce myself. I've gotten back into Pokemon after not playing it since Blue & Gold and I've been thoroughly enjoying myself, it's good to see all the old Pokemon back in a newer generation game and a familiar story/scenery for me to get back in to (The primary reason I didn't pick up Black or White)

However, as I've been building my team I've been checking out Smogon for quite some time, learning about natures, EV training and IV's and I believed I had made myself a reasonably good team (Or so I thought...?) It seemed to have a nice balance of attacks and types and I was also able to stick to Pokemon I knew and loved from back in the original Gold version.

However, reading through the website a lot more I've been doubting my selection and I've been trying to improve on that, most notable is that my team has neither Stealth Rock or Rapid Spin (I'm not sure if a team if meant to have both or just one or both?) so I've been leaning toward that I might need to make use of the weather trio from Ruby and Sapphire (Which Id have no problem with, as I'm familiar with them) and/or perhaps weaving a Rapid Spin Starmie into my team.

Anyway, this is my team so far. I know some/a lot of you may look at it and laugh, but please keep in mind I haven't played since early 2000's and I'm just looking for any help possible :)

I’ll try my attempt at an explanation for each member, while my reasoning may seemed flawed please keep in mind the above paragraph. All of the abilities/natures/EV’s and items had been taken from Smogon as well.

Name: Gyarados
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Intimidate
Move set:
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance

I chose Gyarados due to the fact that (On paper) he looked like a strong water type for my team which could provide that and some extra fire-power as well as a bit of diversity in a move-set. I’ve been told that Gyarados is actually quite weak though against a lot of teams, and have been considering switching him for Kyogre (More on that later on)

Name: Tyranitar
Item: Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Ability: Sand Stream
Move set:
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

I originally used Tyranitar back in Gold version and he was a very sturdy party member (At least for me) back then though I didn’t breed him from an egg, but adding Pursuit I thought was a good plan, he has some strong physical attacks as well as another strong ground-type attack.

Name: Mewtwo
Item: Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Move set:
- Aura Sphere (Currently Psychic)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

I also used Mewtwo back in Gold version. Extremely fast and a lot of SpA under his belt. I chose this move-set to add a lot of diversity for him, and to simply take advantage of his high statistics. Like all of my other Pokemon right now, none of them are yet level 100, so for the time being I am using Psychic, but will change over to Aura Sphere when I can.

Name: Scizor
Item: Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Ability: Technician
Move set:
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Scizor is again another Pokemon I used in Gold version, and in this current version was the first shiny I ever encountered (Well, Scyther anyway) and the reason I found Smogon to begin with. Thankfully for me (I may have just been extremely lucky?) He has the ability I needed, and his IV’s are quite high (According to the Serebii IV calculator) so if at all possible, being able to keep Scizor on my team and make the rest of my team work around him would be fantastic.
Scizor has a lot of resistances as well as very high attack which I can take advantage of in all his abilities. I don’t know if I’m doing this right, but I usually open up with Scizor due to being able to switch out right away with his U-Turn ability should I need to.

Name: Ho-Oh
Item: Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Move set:
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Roost

Yet again, another Pokemon I used in Gold version. While his weakness to Rock could prove to be an extreme pain in the long run, I don’t have much of a problem letting go of Ho-Oh for someone else. In my opinion I used him because of his high physical attack and being able to throw out a Sacred Fire, causing a high burn chance. I was able to add a strong flying attack and a heal to keep him in the fight longer (Or to heal recoil damage)

Name: Raikou
Item: Choice Scarf
Nature: Rash
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Move set:
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power (Ice)

I originally wasn’t going to use Raikou, I was originally going to be using Zapdos but a friend of mine said he had a Raikou on his game which he wasn’t planning to use in Black & White. He let me know that this is one of the event pokemon which he was fortunate enough to get himself. All his abilities were as I got them (He’s a reader/poster on Smogon) The only thing I did was change his EV’s around to match appropriately. Raikou I feel added some secondary support to moves which I already had (Except Shadow Ball) Adding a bit more freedom to who I could switch into. (For example, should I be facing a Dark-Type pokemon, knowing I’ll probably be hit with the same-type ability, I could switch into Raikou instead of Mewtwo and hopefully hit him with an Aura Sphere) But I do feel if I were to make any adjustments to my team, Raikou would probably have to be one of the first to go, again which I don’t have much of a problem with.

While I think the types and ability sets have a wide coverage, I feel that they just don't sync well with everyone else. I think if I were to add a Groudon w/ Stealth Rock and a Specs Kyogre to add more power, I'd have to drop (Maybe?) Tyranitar/Ho-Oh for Groudon, Gyarados for Kyogre, switch Mewtwo's Thunderbolt for Grass Knot and probably drop Raikou for something else completely. And I also think that if I have Kyogre I won't be able to have a Starmie should I need one... I'm just so awfully confused on what I should do.

Also as silly as it might sound to you guys, I'd very much like to stick with Generation I/II Pokemon in my team, and if anything past that it'd be the weather trio. I'm sorry that my post was so long, but I'd like to try and get this figured out as soon as I can, as I'm still raising my team (They're all around level 75) and I feel if I were to get some of them to level 100, and then drop them from my team to raise another one, it'd feel like a big waste.

Thank you to anyone who may be able to help me on the matter, I really really appreciate it! :)

Abacus said:
Okay, so you should pick either the OU or Uber tier for this team.

Basically, tiers are a system by which certain mons are banned to give the others a chance to shine. In the Uber tier, nothing is banned. In the OU tier, some things are banned. If OU and lower tiers didn't exist, many many pokemon would never be used.

More info if you're interested: http://www.smogon.com/articles/tiers

In your team, you have Uber: Mewtwo, Ho-oh OU: Tyranitar, Gyarados, Scizor, Raikou

You should pick either OU or Uber for now. If you pick Uber, you are using a significantly underpowered team, many of the uber threats like Rayquaza and Kyogre will bowl you over. If you pick OU, you cannot use Ho-oh and Mewtwo.

Stealth Rock is pretty good for any team. Having it up will turn a lot of 2 hit knock outs into one hit knock outs, and 3HKOs into 2HKOs. You can run a team successfully without stealth rock, but it tends to be a good idea.

Rapid spin matters a lot based on your team. The more pokemon you have weak to rock attacks, the more useful rapid spin will be for you. I would say that if you plan on playing ubers and keep Ho-oh, then a rapid spin user is almost mandatory.

This is a good read on stealth rock and rapid spin: http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/battle_conditions

Your gyarados doesn't make any sense man. Dragon dance is useless when you have a choice band (FIXED). Choice band gyarados is not used much because it is weak to stealth rock. Pokemon with choice items tend to switch a lot, and so the stealth rock weakness matters more. That's not to say that CBgyara isn't good... just something to consider.

Also, you don't seem to have any EVs or natures listed? You seem to be getting sets from somewhere, but just in case you can check smogon's analysis dex to see good, standard sets for pokemon if you're unsure of what to do

Sorry if this wasn't cogent, I'm very tired and rambling

switch97 said:
Thanks very much for your response :)
As for the Choice Band Gyarados, that was an error on my part, it should have been Leftovers/Life Orb, and as for Raikou as well that was meant to be a Choice Scarf (Again, stupid error on my part) and I'm getting my sets from this site. So I thought it would have been appropriate to post it here, as for my EV's and natures, sorry that I left those out

As for tiers, I'm thinking I would like to stick to Uber without any restrictions, I feel that if I do that it gives me a lot more freedom on choice, but as you mentioned, my current set up would be underpowered.

So based off the responses I received in my previous thread, Gyarados needs to go - which I have no problem with, however I'm not sure if I should be replacing him with Kyogre for the bigger water attacks + Thunder (Which means I could drop Raikou for perhaps a support Groudon w/ Stealth Rock?) or if I should be putting in a rapid spinner like Starmie in exchange for Gyarados instead.

I'm also now very skeptic about Ho-Oh now, after reading about how much Stealth Rock will hurt him if I don't have a rapid spinner in. Also, if I put in Groudon that's another Earthquake attack, meaning I'll have 3. So dropping Ho-Oh or Tyranitar for something else.

*sigh* I'm sorry, I'm just so awfully confused :(
Also, just curious if in time I was to actually pick up Pokemon Black & White, would any 4th gen be acceptable to move over? Perhaps adding GEN 5 tweaks here and there.
I will really appreciate any help being given, and thank you to anyone who has read this far!

2sly4u · May 20, 2011

Hey man
I can tell that you're relatively new to this, but you're still running a team mixed with ubers and OU pokemon. As stated earlier, your Ubers are Ho-oh and Mewtwo (Kyogre would be too), while everyone else is OU.

If this team is meant for Ubers: You're ridiculously underpowered. Gyarados and Raikou can't play Ubers at all really, while Scizor and T-tar really only fill niche roles in the tier. You should rework your whole team if this is meant for Ubers. On one more specific note, Ho-oh hates Kyogre as a teammate, as Drizzle nerfs his Fire attacks and increases his weakness to water. You also NEED a rapid spinner if you want to use Ho-oh.

If this team is meant for standard play: You can't use Ho-oh, Mewtwo, or Kyogre. In standard, a few pokemon are considered so powerful that they are banned, as otherwise they would ruin the balance of the game. Unfortunately for your team, a third of your members fall under this category. This team seems to be built around offense, so maybe you should consider Life Orb Starmie over Mewtwo. Starmie has great Speed and decent Special Attack, all while packing an awesome movepool. It's nowhere near as good as Mewtwo, but it's arguably the best non-Uber Psychic-type.

As for your last slot, I would move Gyarados from the lead position and replace Ho-oh with a good suicide lead. Aerodactyl fits the bill perfectly, almost always setting up Stealth Rocks (important for every offensive team) and sometimes doing some damage as well. Smogon's website has great movesets for you to use as a starting point. http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/

If this team is just for in-game: Really, anything can get you through any of the games. Use whatever suits your fancy, and don't worry too much about EVs. Smogon is more concerned with competitive battling, so you may not find the help you want here.

I hope one of those three categories was helpful :)

EDIT: Haha sorry I didn't see your post about wanting to do Ubers. If that's the case, your team needs a whole lot of work. I would stick to the pokemon listed here: http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/uber
One or two OU pokemon should be fine (Scizor especially can hold his own), but using four will just get you killed. Build a team carefully using Ubers, and then I'd post a new RMT thread in a week or two. The mods don't like it when you have two threads open at once.

switch97 · May 20, 2011

I probably should have ordered my Pokemon better, but my lead would be Scizor at the moment (I'm not sure if it's right, but I figured a lot of resistances + U-turn makes for a good lead)

For some reason I completely ignored Kyogre's ability to nerfing fire attacks (Silly mistake) but I'll see if I can work something out in my head/on paper for either a re-worked team or something completely different (Maybe an Uber and OU team) I do feel just going all-out offence with mixed attacks wouldn't work too well against a lot of players. While I don't see myself playing competitively for the time being, I would like to at least set myself up as such - should I ever decide to make the switch. Right now I'm just playing with friends :)

Thanks very much for your reply! All of the categories have been very helpful, it's nice to see that you guys have such a good community here (I'm an ex-WoW player... If you are too, or are still playing you'll understand why :P)

4th Gen Team (Seeking advice, long post)

switch97

2sly4u

switch97

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)