Munchlax (Analysis)

Diana

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Munchlax



Status: Done!
QC Checks: Nails, Aerrow
GP Checks: Calm Pokemaster, wekhter


[Overview]

<p>Munchlax stands out as a force to be reckoned with in Little Cup thanks to its great HP and Special Defense, the ability to reach 19 Attack, and an incredible movepool which allows it to hit almost any Pokemon for super effective damage. However, it's not all great for Munchlax. The popularity of Fighting-types greatly hurts its viability, meaning it will have to switch out a lot more often and risk having the likes of Scraggy or Timburr setting up. Despite that, Munchlax remains quite the viable choice in Little Cup and is something all teams need an answer for.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Tank
move 1: Return
move 2: Earthquake / Focus Punch
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: Pursuit
item: Eviolite
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Adamant
evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set combines Munchlax's best traits, making it a hard-hitting special tank. Return is Munchlax's best choice for STAB, as it hits quite hard and has no drawbacks. The second slot has two choices, both for different purposes. Earthquake is the main move, as it is a reliable choice for hitting Steel-types such as Pawniard and Magnemite for super effective damage. Focus Punch will also hit Steel-types super effectively, as well as KO Scraggy attempting to set up on Munchlax. Although it is less reliable overall, the ability to prevent Scraggy from setting up makes it a solid option.</p>

<p>In the third moveslot, Fire Punch hits Bronzor and Ferroseed super effectively while acting as a backup move for other Steel-types. Pursuit is the typical choice in the fourth slot, hitting Ghost-types for super effective damage. It allows a KO on weakened threats in general, as well as Gastly and Abra. This shouldn't be used to try to trap Frillish, however, as it almost always uses Will-O-Wisp, which cripples Munchlax.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Munchlax can run extra bulk in either a Careful nature or extra HP, though this set is more of an attacker and likes the boost there. Make sure to not end up with 32 HP, as that makes Munchlax take more damage from entry hazards and weather.</p>

<p>As for teammates, Pokemon to help face Fighting-types are a huge help. A Ghost-type such as Duskull can handle most Fighting-types, though they can't handle Scraggy. Timburr and Mienfoo can use their super effective Drain Punches to help against Scraggy.</p>

[SET]
name: Rest
move 1: Return
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Eviolite
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Careful / Adamant
evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Rest and Sleep Talk, Munchlax gains survivability at the cost of reduced coverage. With this, Munchlax becomes more of a special wall, though it still can hit hard enough to be a threat. Return, Rest, and Sleep Talk are the obvious moves on this set, providing a STAB move and recovery. The best coverage move for this set is Fire Punch, hitting Steel-types that resist Normal-type attacks as well while still doing some damage to Ghost-types.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Munchlax can run either a Careful or Adamant nature on this set. With Careful, Munchlax can take hits a bit more easily, but Adamant allows it to hit harder. Both are viable options, and the nature depends on what Munchlax needs to defeat. Running max HP instead of max Attack with a Careful nature is another option, as Munchlax will need to be able to take more attacks here than on the last set.</p>

<p>The previous set's recommended teammates are still useful here, and due to the lesser coverage, other teammates are quite welcome. Frillish resists both Return and Fire Punch, meaning teammates need to pick up the slack. Chinchou is a good option to check Frillish, resisting Scald and having Electric-type attacks. Scraggy can help with Ghost-types in general, which cause problems for this set. Tentacool can set up Toxic Spikes, which this Munchlax likes having to help stall out opponents, making it a solid teammate as well.</p>

[SET]
name: Stockpile + Whirlwind
move 1: Stockpile
move 2: Whirlwind
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Eviolite
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Impish
evs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a pure defensive support set for Munchlax, and despite being completely stopped by Taunt it can stall well with team support. Stockpile means Munchlax can, at best, only be 3HKOed by all but Fighting-type attacks, making it able to safely use Rest and Sleep Talk. Whirlwind lets Munchlax phaze, and lacks its negative priority when used by Sleep Talk. However, Munchlax's low Speed rarely lets it go first anyway.</p>

<p>An Impish nature with maximum HP and Defense are important to raise Munchlax's lower physical bulk to take advantage of the boost that Stockpile provides. With the current EV spread, Munchlax reaches 33 HP, 14 Defense, and 16 Special Defense, giving it incredible mixed bulk even with only one boost. Immunity may be tempting to use to avoid Toxic, but with Rest it is unnecessary, making Thick Fat the better option.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Entry hazards are a necessity on this set, as Munchlax cannot do any damage on its own. Ferroseed is a good choice to set up Spikes and Stealth Rock, while Tentacool can set up Toxic Spikes. Hail can also rack up additional damage, which means that Snover is a good teammate as well. On top of that, Pokemon that can take on Fighting-types and levitating Ghost-types help too, such as the aforementioned Scraggy, Timburr, and Gastly.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Thanks to its gigantic movepool, Munchlax has a mulititude of other options to consider. Seed Bomb and ThunderPunch can both hit Frillish, and the former also KOes Wooper, but both have lackluster coverage and Frillish still wins. SelfDestruct can be used as a suicide move, and gets STAB, but isn't nearly as powerful since it no longer halves the opponent's Defense. Superpower can be used to hit Steel-types and Scraggy, but doesn't KO Scraggy like Focus Punch does and lowers Munchlax's own Attack and Defense. Zen Headbutt hits Fighting-types, which is useful, and also is capable of OHKOing Gastly. Munchlax also has a huge special movepool, but its horrible Special Attack stat makes those moves worthless.</p>

<p>Munchlax has a few other non-attacking options as well. Recycle and Oran Berry can let Munchlax heal repeatedly, which can help against special attackers that try to stay in. Substitute could work with Focus Punch to ease prediction, and the move combination is good against any Scraggy that wants to come in. Counter can get a surprise KO on a Fighting-type, but Munchlax would have trouble doing much else afterward. A Curse + Rest set could raise its Attack and Defense, but Munchlax would either be stuck without a coverage move or without Sleep Talk, meaning it would be easily beaten. Lastly, using Munchlax in Trick Room is a good option with its low Speed and high Attack. In that case, a Life Orb would be a viable item choice instead of Eviolite.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Despite its good stats, many Pokemon can take on Munchlax if it fails to carry the right move. Basically any Fighting-type can give Munchlax problems unless it is running Zen Headbutt, and even then Scraggy is still a good check. It should be noted that Scraggy still has to watch out for a possible Focus Punch, however. Frillish can burn Munchlax, making it an excellent check as well.</p>

<p>The rare Litwick is immune to Normal- and Fire-type attacks, and also gets Will-O-Wisp to burn Munchlax, although it can't take an Earthquake. Rock-types, although rare, also resist Normal and Fire, but take heavy damage from Earthquake unless they are neutral to it courtesy a secondary typing. Lileep makes a good check as long as Munchlax doesn't have Focus Punch. Toxic and burn cripples any set lacking Rest, meaning it is good to deal with the tank set. Lastly, Taunt users easily beat the Stockpile set, forcing it to switch out.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Munchlax gets Gluttony from the Dream World. Even if it was released along with pinch berries, Munchlax would be much too slow to use it, making it a poor option which is completely outclassed by Thick Fat and the added resistances it provides.</p>
 
slash Seed Bomb with Pursuit, since Misdreavus beats Munchlax anyway, Pururiru is hit harder, and other ghosts are non-existent. Psychics too. Lets you kill Wooper.

Mention Trick Roomers in AC, as Munchlax can really lay down some hurt with 85 Base Attack.

Talk about running more bulk over attack, and how 32 hp means you take more damage from hail/ss

Munchlax gets Recycle+Oran Berry.

It also has a great special movepool, Ice Beam, Tbolt, Shadow Ball, Fire Blast, Surf...too bad its special movepool sucks.

It also gets Counter.

and Substitute+Focus Punch.

And Superpower.

And Zen Headbutt for Fighting-types.

Rock-types resist Normal and Fire too.

Eviolite Missy can NP-->HP Fight on Munchlax or burn it with WoW

Also, yeah, combine the two rest sets, they are literally a slash apart
 

Diana

This isn't even my final form
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Munchlax gets everything it seems, even more than I expected.

Made all the changes, the mention of more bulk will look a lot better when I write it up I'm sure.

Also is Ice Punch even worth it in AC? It hits Gligar but it's doing nothing else.
 

Diana

This isn't even my final form
is a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I did see the usage stats, which is why I even mentioned it. It feels like a waste when you have things that resist/are immune to Return that could be covered but I'll put it in Other Options.
 
Ice Punch to an 156/236 Gligar with Oran: 80% - 112%
Eviolite: 64% - 80% (aka 2HKO with SR)

Return: 28% - 36% to the same Gligar with an Eviolite. So: it's not even going to come close to a 3HKO.
 

Diana

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Okay, so here's the question. Keep it in other options or is there a move I should slash it with on any of the sets? Sadly there isn't really much room for it.
 

Diana

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All right, it's already in OO so that's good. I'll make a quick AC mention on the first set since it runs 4 attacks and has an easier time sparing a moveslot.
 

Crux

Banned deucer.
Mention that 236 hp can be run in place of attack to increase bulk, especially on the rest set. Other wise, looks good. I'm not sure if a CB set is worth mentioning?
 

Diana

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Okay, made the changes and put Choice Band in OO for now. If needed I can make a note of it on the first set because it's attacking anyway.
 

Nails

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Munchlax



Status: QC checks and input welcome, I'm okay to combine the last two sets if QC would like.

QC Checks: none



[Overview]
  • Amazing HP and Special Defense
  • Fighting-types being everywhere lower its usefulness greatly
  • Still a good tank that can hit back hard
  • Good movepool
[SET]
name: Special Tank
move 1: Return
move 2: Earthquake / Focus Punch It stops scraggy from setting up, and eq really doesn't hit much. This is tested, it works extremely well.
move 3: Fire Punch / Ice Punch just for another option
move 4: Pursuit / Seed BombIce Punch Seed Bomb is good in theory, but since return hits so damn hard you never use it. Frillish will burn you so you really shouldn't be staying in on it (it cant do 50% anyways iirc). Ice Punch again is a good option.
item: Eviolite
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Adamant
evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

  • Amazing HP and Special Defense with Eviolite backed by goodgreat Attack A higher stat than gligar or machop, and gets to run adamant too. 19 attack is huge.
  • Takes Pokemon like Houndour effectively
  • Return is a reliable STAB move
  • Earthquake hits Pawniard
  • Fire Punch for Ferroseed and Bronzor
  • Pursuit hits Ghost-types and can catch a fleeing one for a KO Not reliable this gen; Frillish burns you, missy burns or 2hkoes with NP hp fight. Gastly is successfully pursuited, however no one uses it (for what it's worth, duskull beats lax too).
  • Seed Bomb can hit Frillish and Wooper Frillish still wins, wooper isn't a huge threat to munchy or the team. Plus it got taken out.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Careful nature mostly unnecessary due to already having amazing bulk
  • Running 236 HP instead of Attack is an option, though this set is already an attacker and would rather have the power.
  • Ice Punch is another move option for Gligar though it sacrifices coverage on other threats
  • A Ghost-type to help with Fighting-type opponents would make a good teammate
  • Timburr and Mienfoo help with Scraggy
  • Gligar makes a good physical tank to pair with Munchlax
  • Trick Room users like Slowpoke and Bronzor can work since Munchlax hits quite hard and is extremely slow.Move to OO tbh, it's not that great. Mention LO on the tr set
Move curselax to OO. Every team has a fighter or three and rest without sleep talk is suicide in LC since you never get 3 straight turns to lay around napping (switch to clamperl, shell smash, gg). I'm leaning heavily toward giving the stockpile whirlwind set a spot, someone else comment on this.
[SET]
name: Rest
move 1: Return
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Curse
item: Eviolite
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Careful / Adamant
evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Rest and Sleep Talk give Munchlax survivability
  • Curse can set up and would be used over Sleep Talk
  • Munchlax can usually survive rest after a few boosts from Curse
  • Fire Punch is the best coverage move to pair with Return to hit Ferroseed while still doing damage to Ghosts
  • Has much less coverage than the tank set meaning it needs help dealing with other threats
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Teammates listed for the first set still apply well here
  • Running 236 HP instead of Attack is a more viable option here, since Munchlax wants survivability with Rest.
  • Frillish also resists both moves on this set
  • Chinchou can be a good check for Frillish
  • Carvanha can help with Ghost-types
  • Reflect support is helpful to get off those first Curses
  • Natu is an option for setting up Reflect and has Magic Bounce to reflect any Toxic Spikes from the likes of Tentacool
  • Tentacool itself can absorb Toxic Spikes and set them up itself for Munchlax
[Other Options]
  • ThunderPunch can hit Frillish but has lackluster coverage otherwise
  • Crunch hits Ghosts but Pursuit can catch them fleeing Crunch woupd be standard if it got it. Alas, it does not.
  • Whirlwind can phaze so it is a decent option
  • Stockpile can boost defenses but Special Defense is high enough and Defense can be helped with Curse missing the point of stockpile, it lets you avoid 3hkoes from anything and abuse rest
  • SelfDestruct can be a suicide move and has STAB meaning it still hits hard
  • Munchlax can use Recycle with Oran Berry to continue healing, which can work well against Special Attackers trying to power through.
  • Munchlax has a gigantic special movepool, but with a horrible Special Attack they mostly aren't worth it
  • Counter can let Munchlax get a surprise KO on a Fighting-type though it would typically cause Munchlax to lose too much HP to be worth it
  • A set with Substitute and Focus Punch could work as well
  • Superpower lowers Attack and Defense but is a good Fighting-type moveI'm reasonably sure it doesn't get this. Not positive though. I wouldn't have used focus punch if I had access to superpower though...
  • Zen Headbutt can hit Fighting-types super effectively and ohko gastly
  • Ice Punch can hit Gligar and the rare Drifloon but usually gets left off for better coverage options.
  • A Choice Band set is a possibility with good Attack and a wide movepool.
[Checks and Counters]
  • Fighting-types are Munchlax's worst nightmare
  • Misdreavus with Eviolite can burn Munchlax with Will-O-Wisp or use Nasty Plot to set up to hit with Hidden Power Fighting
  • Frillish if not running Pursuit
  • Litwick is rare but is immune to Normal and Fire
  • Rock-types resist Normal and Fire as well
  • Toxic and burn cripple any set without Rest
[Dream World]
  • Munchlax gets Gluttony from the Dream World
  • It is too slow for a pinch berry strategy even if they become available
  • Completely outclassed by Thick Fat
Leave CB in OO. Waiting for input on stockpile/whirlwind lax.
Do all mons get a DW section even if it sucks?

edit: After a bit of thought CB kind of sucks. Your stab is easily set up on and missy is a scary sweeper. It isn't worthless, but the liabilities outweigh the benefits (losing eviolite matters a lot).
 

Diana

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Wait should I even keep Pursuit in the set if it's not good this gen? I could just make it straight-up Return, Superpower/Earthquake (probably Focus Punch first), Fire Punch, Ice Punch.

Actually it does get Superpower, amazingly enough.
 
OK: the Stockpile + WW set:

[SET]
name: Stockpile + Whirlwind
move 1: Stockpile
move 2: Whirlwind
move 3: Rest
move 4: Return / Fire Punch / Sleep Talk
item: Eviolite
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Impish
evs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD

I've tested this before; it works on stall teams and stuff but you absolutely HAVE to have SR and at least 1 layer of Spikes up so it's not completely a sitting duck.

EDIT: better, nails?
 

Nails

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Pursuit should be a primary option. It is still good, just not as good.

Calc superpower vs eviolite scraggy. If that koes it deserves the spot. It would then be Superpower/Eq. If it doesnt ko leave it as Eq/FP.

Slash Ice Punch under Fire Punch and Pursuit, based on team needs.

edit: On the stockpile set hail and tspikes are great too. Also max hp and defense on the stockpile set.
 

Diana

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Apparently SuperPower doesn't have a chance to KO, so I'll leave it off. Okay I'll make all those changes other than the Stockpile set, which I'll do in a few minutes after I do something really quick.
 

Nails

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"Pursuit hits Ghost-types, and can catch a fleeing Gastly for the KO. It's too dangerous to try to catch a Frillish or Misdreavus, however."

Missy can be trapped if it has subsneak/sub 3 attacks/etc. It needs wow or np hp fight to win, munchlax is a solid switch. You also beat Abra, and prsuiting non pursuit-weak mons is useful too.

Focus Punch is for only scraggy, fire punch is a more reliable way to kill steels.

Take Ice Punch out of AC as it's in set comments.

Will stamp once I get input on slash order of eq/focus punch, stockpile gets c/ped in, and these changes are made.
 
number of missy without hp fighting: 0

(thunderbolt on the analysis is just for murkrow who is no longer with us)

236 adamant leftovers munchlax superpower vs 22 hp 19 def dark type (36 hp eviolite scraggy): 81.8% - 100%, 40% chance of KO with SR, and cripples it the rest of the time
 

Nails

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subsneak has neither plot nor wisp so you win.

and no guarantee on the ko is kind of offsetting because you need to switch into drain punch, get another switch into the crunch... I'd rather have it dead tbh.
 

Diana

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Standard Scraggy runs 36 hp/36 def which is what I used, you're not KOing that without spikes.

Edit: Made changes, which there have obviously been a lot of today. There's so much Munchlax can do.
 

Nails

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Take Return and Fire Punch off the stockpile set, whirlwind is the only move to use there. You switch out of taunt.

Someone please comment on the order of earthquake and focus punch. That's the only thing left tbh. Solid analysis.

[QC STAMP 1/2]
 

Diana

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Okay. I'll let someone comment on EQ/Focus Punch. Considering what you said I'd maybe even put Focus Punch first but maybe someone else has more experience with it.
 

Nails

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Focus Punch has the whole unreliability thing and needs a lot of prediction to use it effectively, so I'm VERY hesitant to list it as a primary slash.

Last look over:

32 hp deals more sr damage for the sleep talking sets, move a point to SpD (correcting myself here).

Taunt beats the sets with rest.
 

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