Tangrowth (Analysis)

ToF said:

as for the attacks on the defensive sets, they need adjusting. way too much slashitis going on. the two attacks should be giga drain and hp ice. go slash between leech seed, sleep powder, and stun spore. i think double status is a bit redundant too, and my changes would make much less overlap. mention the physical attacks in other options, and they should be the primary attacks on the sun abuser set.

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Snunch said:

Tangrowth has pretty good attacking stats to work with and pretty powerful STAB attacks, I don't see why you would sacrifice those for a weak, non-threatening Giga Drain. With a poor spdef stat that compromises its good resistances to water and electric, Tangrowth needs to be a tank. Earthquake is mandatory to dent fire type switchins after sleep powder has been burned, as well as harming steel types like Bisharp. HP Ice isn't nearly as useful in UU as it is in OU; all you'll end up accomplishing is a 3HKO on Celebi and Zapdos, both of which force you out anyway. Sleep Powder is an all around amazing attack and one of Tangrowth's key advantages over other bulky grass types like Celebi and Shaymin. Last slot lets Tangrowth recover outside of switching out. Stun Spore, HP Ice, Giga Drain, etc. in AC.

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[Overview]

<p>As a physically defensive Grass-type, Tangrowth faces much competition from a variety of Pokemon in UU, including Slowbro and Shaymin. At the same time, it is fairly unique in what it does; with good offensive stats on both sides, very impressive physical bulk surpassed only by some Rock- and Steel-types, and the great support moves that Grass-types tend to have, Tangrowth is blessed with enough versatility to function as a hard-hitting wall or a bulky sweeper. Defensively, its typing is a double-edged sword, having five weaknesses, but also key resistances to Water and Ground. In addition to this, Tangrowth has plenty of ways to recover HP, including Regenerator, Leech Seed, Giga Drain, and Synthesis, allowing it to continue to frustrate physical attackers throughout a battle. However, these advantages are counterbalanced rather cruelly by cripplingly low Special Defense and Speed stats, and the fact that Synthesis is unobtainable illegal with Regenerator. Like a good rope, Tangrowth may not ward off fires very well, but one can depend on it to hold in the face of physical brutality, and dish some back out.</p>

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Power Whip / Giga Drain
move 2: Earthquake / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Leech Seed / Synthesis
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator / Chlorophyll
nature: Relaxed / Impish / Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Tangrowth's mammoth physical bulk is well-served for a physically defensive set. It can take two of just about any neutral physical attack in UU, and even some super-effective ones, and live to fight back. Choice Band Azumarill fails to 2HKO with Ice Punch, Rhyperior fails to 2HKO with Megahorn, and even Medicham requires a Life Orb or Choice Band boost to guarantee a 2HKO with Hi Jump Kick. To make matters worse for unwary physical weaponry, Tangrowth has an easy time with recovering HP through Leech Seed or Giga Drain, and can even switch out to heal one third of its HP. Between Regenerator, HP-draining moves, and excellent physical walling prowess, Tangrowth can serve as a very long-lasting tank.</p>

<p>Tangrowth also has a formidable arsenal of attacks of all three flavors. Physical attacks include Power Whip, as well as Earthquake to hit Steel- and Fire-types, such as Registeel, Empoleon, Bisharp, and Houndoom. On the special side are Giga Drain and Hidden Power Ice to attack Grass- and Dragon-types, such as Shaymin and Flygon. Status moves include the powerful, clause-regulated Sleep Powder, as well as Stun Spore, Knock Off, and Leech Seed. This versatility is a major advantage over other physical walls, making Tangrowth somewhat unpredictable. Regenerator also makes Tangrowth excel against Choice Band and Choice Scarf attackers because, if necessary, it can switch to a better counter to the opponent's move without worrying too much about healing.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The big question is the direction that one wants Tangrowth to take to fill its four moveslots. Giga Drain's main lure is the HP recovery and the ability to beat Slowbro, but Power Whip fares much better against Chansey, 2HKOes Milotic and Slowking, and guarantees a 2HKO on offensive Suicune. The STAB move choice also has an effect on the corresponding coverage move and the nature. Use an Impish or Bold nature if Tangrowth's moves are entirely physical or special, and use a Relaxed nature if its moveset is mixed. As for support moves, Sleep Powder and Leech Seed tend to be the best options;. Nonetheless, Stun Spore is decent if paralysis support is needed, Synthesis can make Tangrowth play more like a wall, and Knock Off can remove Eviolite from troublesome NFE Pokemon, such as Chansey.</p>

<p>Tangrowth's main issues are opposing Grass-types, such as Shaymin, and slow, bulky Pokemon that take advantage of moves that it doesn't run. Heracross and Rotom-H tend to do very well against Grass-types; the former's powerful Megahorn scares off most Grass-types and benefits from status moves, while the latter resists most of the common coverage moves that Grass-types utilize, terrorizing Sigilyph as well. Both can also switch into attempts to burn Tangrowth. Tangrowth also benefits significantly from Stealth Rock support, since many of its offensive predators, such as Victini and Swellow, are weak against it. One should also look into Water-, Steel-, and Rock-type teammates for covering Tangrowth's weaknesses and, in turn, being covered by its resistances. Rhyperior, Aggron, and Cobalion can serve as wallbreakers, while Omastar and Empoleon can set up entry hazards. Water-types are especially useful to counter some of the more persistent Fire-types, such as defensive Arcanine. Chansey is also a fairly worthwhile investment to take special attacks directed at Tangrowth without prejudice worry (prejudice really doesn't work considering that it means assumption.).</p>

[SET]
name: Sweeper
move 1: Swords Dance / Growth
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Rock Slide / Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Adamant / Naughty
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This offensive set casts Tangrowth as a desert slave driver, setting up on physical attackers and proceeding to punish their insolence with a boosted Power Whip. Any resistance through fire or iron is swiftly squelched with Earthquake, leaving only Flying-types, Rotom-H, and opposing Grass-types as holes in this two-move offensive. Unfortunately, Tangrowth has only one moveslot to deal with only one of the two: Rock Slide for the former two, or Hidden Power Fire for the latter. Tangrowth's low Speed under typical conditions places a demand for the desert sun to beat down on the land for optimal sweeping ability. As such, the most prominent foe will typically be the eight-turn time limit (since Drought is banned), though the occasional appearance of Abomasnow and Hippopotas among the opposition will cause issues as well.</p>

<p>Tangrowth is highly favored among UU sun sweepers due to having great offensive stats on both sides as well as a high Defense stat to help it to set up. Most other sun sweepers, such as Shiftry and Victreebel, are rather frail on both sides, and so they have a hard time finding a good opportunity to set up. Nonetheless, like the others, Tangrowth suffers from moveslot and typing issues that tend to plague Grass-types. Thus, Tangrowth, and the sun team in general, should be played intelligently and precisely to ensure success.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Move alternatives are few. Since Tangrowth really needs all of its moveslots for attacking and setting up, a status move is not a very good idea, and neither is Sunny Day. A special moveset is a plausible alternative, but the lack of an alternative to Growth, lack of good special coverage moves, and issues with getting past Chansey should all be considered carefully. If OHKOing Gligar is a pressing concern, then Hidden Power Ice can be used. The choice between Swords Dance and Growth is a matter of reliability versus the potential to have a +2 Hidden Power Fire; Abomasnow and Hippopotas should be taken very seriously when making this choice.</p>

<p>Sunny Day support should generally come from multiple support Pokemon. Indeed, There are many options for Sunny Day support, whether they be fast supporters that grab control of the game momentum, such as Crobat and Azelf, or defensive supporters that can take enough hits for repeated Sunny Day replenishment, such as Celebi, Deoxys-D, Registeel, and Arcanine. Paralysis support from the likes of Celebi, Registeel, and Cresselia can also be helpful, too, since the sun may run out. Celebi and Registeel can also provide Stealth Rock support, which is very important for landing KOs. Consequently, a Ghost-type, such as Mismagius and Golurk, can be useful to block Rapid Spin.</p>

<p>Rhyperior is a good partner if Tangrowth is running Hidden Power Fire, since it will give most Flying-types problems, and it can also use Stealth Rock or even Sunny Day. If Rock Slide is being used, Fire-types, such as Arcanine, Rotom-H, and Houndoom, can cover Tangrowth against Grass-types, while benefiting from the sun. Rotom-H in particular resists most typical coverage moves from the likes of Shaymin. Water-types, such as Suicune and Milotic, are beneficial teammates despite having weakened STAB moves in the sun, as they can check defensive Arcanine. Though Power Whip OHKOes Mew, and Deoxys-D often doesn't carry Psychic, a missed Power Whip can turn the tables in the opponent's favor; Pursuit Houndoom can be used to clear them, just to make sure. (this sentence just confuses me. Can you make it seems like a less jarring transition please?)</p>

<p>Trick Room is a quirky alternative to Sunny Day that is plausible for Tangrowth to exploit thanks to its low Speed. However, it does not power up Growth or Hidden Power Fire, and there is no way to extend Trick Room's duration to eight turns, so Sunny Day is generally preferred. Obviously, do not use Chlorophyll if this is your intent.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>For all of Tangrowth's versatility, its stiff competition leaves it few alternatives without being outclassed by a different Pokemon. A specially defensive EV spread can have its uses, but it takes away from a the prime reason to use Tangrowth: its physical walling ability. Even with Regenerator, tight moveslots make it difficult to justify niche support options, such as Block and Knock Off (I'm against putting things in both AC and OO, but your decision with this one.). Tangrowth can also try a SubSeed set with 100+ HP Substitutes, but Jumpluff and Cottonee offer the Speed/priority that is generally more desired in a subseeder. Reflect would be an excellent move, but lack of Light Screen kills its viability. Poison Jab and Sludge Bomb are powerful against Grass-types, but they otherwise provide mediocre coverage. Leaf Guard could be good on a staller in a sun team, but lack of permanent sun kills its viability.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Shaymin is one of the best counters to Tangrowth because it resists most of Tangrowth's moves, can remove any status by switching out, and has enough bulk to take several hits of from Hidden Power Ice. Plus, it establishes the threat of Seed Flare on whatever switches in. Swellow is another great counter because Guts-activating items (Flame Orb and Toxic Orb) Flame Orb or Toxic Orb protect it from paralysis and sleep, and it can cut through Tangrowth's physical defense with a powerful Brave Bird. Heracross works similarly, threatening a powerful Megahorn. Sigilyph uses Tangrowth as a setup opportunity while using Magic Guard to ignore Leech Seed, using a Flame Orb to make itself immune to Sleep Powder, and possibly using Psycho Shift to pass the Flame Orb to Tangrowth. While Fire-types are decent checks in general, Rotom-H deserves special mention, not only because of its immunity to Earthquake, but also its lack of the painful 4x weakness to Rock that Moltres and Charizard have due to their additional Flying typing. Defensive Arcanine is another good counter because Intimidate cuts Tangrowth's Attack, making it difficult to beat even with Earthquake. Poison-types are also worth a mention; Crobat and Nidoking can be especially dangerous if they manage to avoid Hidden Power Ice.</p>

<p>Tangrowth's opponents can also exploit moves that it is not running. Flygon, Crobat, and Roserade can take advantage of a lack of Hidden Power Ice, while Fire-types, such as Victini, can exploit a lack of Earthquake.</p>

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capefeather said:

Thanks, kmuffinman. However, some of your proposed changes seem to be kind of missing the context of the writing, and at one point it was redundant (dish BACK some IN RETURN).

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