Timburr (Analysis)

This is heavily borrowed from Heysup's original thread here, mostly just updated.


Timburr


[Overview]

<p>Timburr is another of the Fighting-types that run rampant in LC, but it has a few unique characteristics that allow it to carve out a niche for itself. Excellent bulk and its access to Mach Punch make it an excellent check to Scraggy. Unfortunately, its Speed is rather low, and it is susceptible to Flying- and Psychic-types such as Slowpoke and Taillow. However, it is quite difficult to stop after setting up thanks to its high Attack and access to Guts, and makes for an excellent addition to almost any team.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Bulk Up / Toxic
move 2: Drain Punch
move 3: Payback
move 4: Mach Punch
item: Eviolite
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 156 Def / 76 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is a very bulky sweeper, attaining perfect coverage outside of Croagunk with Drain Punch and Payback. Timburr's ability, Guts, also means it can't be shut down by Will-O-Wisp, and instead grows stronger from it. This set still makes a good check to Scraggy with Timburr's excellent physical bulk and access to Mach Punch, and after a Bulk Up or two, it can sweep late-game with said priority move. Toxic is an option over Bulk Up, and while Timburr won't be sweeping as easily, Toxic helps tremendously against Slowpoke, which can threaten Timburr with Psychic otherwise.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>You can add more Speed EVs, but it takes away from Timburr's good bulk, and reduces the power of Payback. Stone Edge is an option over Payback; while Timburr requires more boosts to break through Psychic-types, it hits Flying-types such as Mantyke and Taillow on the switch for a KO. A Brave nature with 0 Speed IVs allows Timburr to move after most Slowpoke, doing huge damage with Payback. An alternate spread of 236 HP / 36 Atk / 236 SpD allows Timburr to set up far more easily on Pokemon such as Frillish and Slowbro, but noticeably reduces its initial power. This set is very hard to switch into thanks to Timburr's good Attack and coverage, and would-be revenge killers must be wary of its STAB Mach Punch. Psychic-types such as Slowpoke can take on Timburr easily, so a teammate such as Scraggy that can set up on them makes an excellent partner.</p>

[SET]
name: SubPunch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Payback
move 4: Mach Punch
item: Eviolite
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 156 Def / 76 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>In contrast to the more common Bulk Up set, this set puts up a Substitute and goes to town with STAB Focus Punch, with Payback for coverage. Mach Punch is excellent for finishing off foes weakened by its incredibly powerful Focus Punch.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set is very hard to switch into thanks to Substitute and the incredible power of Timburr's STAB Focus Punch. Furthermore, any revenge killer has to watch out for Mach Punch. Entry hazard support is helpful because Timburr forces many switches with its huge offensive presence. Slowpoke and Croagunk can switch in to this rather easily, so a Pokemon that can set up on them, such as Scraggy or Gastly, makes an excellent partner.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Brick Break hits as hard as Drain Punch and also breaks screens, but doesn't restore health and is generally inferior unless breaking screens is a must. Foresight is a gimmicky option to hit Pokemon such as Gastly with Drain Punch. Taunt stops Hippopotas's Roar and Slowpoke's Slack off, and while situational, can help Timburr set up.</p>

<p>A Choice Scarf could be useful, but lacks a powerful STAB attack that doesn't have a crippling drawback. A Choice Band set is very powerful, but Timburr's low Speed makes the lack of bulk from the loss of Eviolite very noticeable. Rock Slide can be used to OHKO offensive Mantyke after Stealth Rock damage, but more defensive versions will only be 2HKOed by Stone Edge, which Rock Slide fails to do, making Stone Edge the superior option. Sheer Force-boosted Rock Slide is as powerful as Stone Edge, but is generally outclassed by Guts Stone Edge because of the broader utility of Guts. Toxic is definitely an option to cripple Slowpoke, but Timburr finds itself hard-pressed to fit it in. Superpower is very powerful and can be used on an all-out attacking set, but its side-effects makes it difficult to use well. Hammer Arm is usable, but doesn't restore health like Drain Punch and is generally outclassed by it.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Croagunk can switch in without fear of anything Timburr has to offer. Duskull takes very little damage from any attack and can easily stall out Payback due to its lower Speed, while whittling down Timburr with Pain Split. Faster Pokemon can try to revenge kill it, but they need to have high Special Attack, including Psychic-types such as Abra, and must watch out for Timburr's powerful Mach Punch.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Iron Fist gives its Mach Punch 20% more power, making it an incredibly useful sweeping tool. It also means Drain Punch sits at a comfortable 90 Base Power. However, the loss of Guts means Gastly, Slowpoke, and Frillish stop Timburr a lot more easily, using Will-O-Wisp or Scald to cripple it.</p>

Rock Slide can be easily used on a set with Guts just for the accuracy. Its main job would be to hit like Mantyke or something though so it's not exactly great.

I think in the overview you should mention it helps stop very powerful sweepers (Carvanha, Scraggy) but leaves you wide open to others (Gligar, Meditite).

Also Misdreavus isn't the best counter because burn won't stop Timburr and Payback deals a ton of damage.

Superpower is really strong but has that nasty side effect and seems like OO material.

I think you could easily make the bulk up set a "Bulky Attacker" set with Toxic slashed in next to Bulk Up to help beat Slowpoke and Gligar, among other things.

Okay add the few things we talked about on IRC then


[QC 1/2]

Added.

In the overview it should say scraggy. Also, would a more specially defensive spread be viable to take attacks better from Missy and other special sweepers?

I suggest waiting to work on this until the round is over, since a lot of pokemon it interacts with are probably going to be suspected (Carvanha, Misdreavus, Scraggy, Meditite...)

Anyway, I think the Specially Defensive set deserves a mention since it sets up on things like Frillish and Slowpoke quite easily. 236 HP / 36 Atk / 236 SpD with a 0 Spe IV to be slower than Frillish and tie with most Slowpoke.

Brick Break if you reaaaaaaally hate screens.

Foresight is a cool gimmick.

Taunt is cool.

Work Up / Drain Punch / Payback / HP Ice, maybe?

I'd actually slash Brave, to get the outslow on Slowpoke and Payback it.

But yeah, good job.



[QC 2/2]

I don't think waiting for results of this round's suspect testing will change the analysis significantly, as the basic playstyle will remain the same, it will just be checked by fewer Pokemon (probably).

I will put that specially defensive spread in AC, and I will make sure to add a mention of Brave and 0 Speed IVs. I will add Brick Break, Foresight, Taunt, and a mention of a Work Up set as well.

EDIT@below: I understand, but that's not a difficult task at all. An issue would arise if the tiering would make certain sets nonviable or certain moves more worthy of consideration (i.e. Brick Break for the Berry Juice meta), and that's definitely not the case with Timburr.

cosmicexplorer said:

I don't think waiting for results of this round's suspect testing will change the analysis significantly, as the basic playstyle will remain the same, it will just be checked by fewer Pokemon (probably).

I will put that specially defensive spread in AC, and I will make sure to add a mention of Brave and 0 Speed IVs. I will add Brick Break, Foresight, Taunt, and a mention of a Work Up set as well.

Click to expand...

The main point is that Scraggy and vanha, 2 of the Pokemon it is most useful for checking/countering, may likely be gone. So all mentions of them as a pro will have to be removed

gp checks and an update please

Is even mentioning the Work Up set worth it anymore? You don't gain anything from running HP Ice anymore with Gligar gone. Obviously this needs a bit of an update to get rid of mentions of banned Pokemon too.

uuuuuuuuupdated

in to gp

edit:

additions
deletions

cosmicexplorer said:

This is heavily borrowed from Heysup's original thread here, mostly just updated.

Timburr

[Overview]

<p>Timburr is another of the rampant Fighting-types in LC, but it has a few unique characteristics that allow it to carve out a niche for itself. It has excellent physical bulk, and its access to Mach Punch makes it an excellent check to Scraggy and Carvanha. Unfortunately, its Speed is rather low, and it is susceptible to Flying- and Psychic-types such as Slowbro and Mantyke. However, it is quite difficult to stop after setting up thanks to its high Attack and access to Guts, and makes for an excellent addition to almost any team.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Bulk Up / Toxic
move 2: Drain Punch
move 3: Payback
move 4: Mach Punch
item: Eviolite
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 156 Def / 76 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is a very bulky sweeper, attaining perfect coverage outside of Croagunk with Drain Punch and Payback. Timburr's ability Guts also means it can't be shut down by Will-O-Wisp, and even grows stronger from it. This set still makes a good check to Scraggy with its excellent physical bulk and access to Mach Punch, and after a Bulk Up or two, it can sweep late game with Mach Punch. Toxic is an option over Bulk Up. While Timburr won't be sweeping as easily, it helps tremendously against Slowpoke and Frillish, which can easily take on Timburr otherwise.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>You can add more Speed EVs, but it takes away from Timburr's good bulk, and reduces the power of Payback. Stone Edge is an option over Payback; while Timburr requires more boosts to break through Misdreavus and Psychic-types, it hits Flying-types such as Mantyke and Taillow on the switch for a KO. A Brave nature with 0 Speed IVs allows Timburr to move after most Slowpoke, doing huge damage with Payback. An alternate spread of 236 HP / 36 Atk / 236 SpD allows Timburr to set up far more easily on Pokemon such as Frillish and Slowbro, but does noticeably reduce its initial power. This set is very hard to switch into thanks to Timburr's good Attack and coverage, and would-be revenge killers must be wary of its STAB Mach Punch. Psychic-types such as Slowpoke can take on Timburr easily, so a partner such as Scraggy which can set up on them makes an excellent partner.</p>

[SET]
name: SubPunch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Payback
move 4: Mach Punch
item: Eviolite
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 156 Def / 76 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>In contrast to the more common Bulk Up set, this set puts up a Substitute and goes to town with STAB Focus Punch and Payback for coverage. Mach Punch is excellent for finishing off foes weakened by its incredibly powerful Focus Punch.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set is very hard to switch into thanks to Substitute and the incredible power of Timburr's STAB Focus Punch, and any revenge killer has to watch out for Mach Punch. Hazard support is helpful because Timburr forces many switches with its huge offensive presence. Slowpoke and Croagunk can switch in to this rather easily, so a Pokemon that can set up on them, such as Scraggy or Gastly, makes an excellent partner.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Brick Break hits as hard as Drain Punch and also breaks screens, but doesn't restore health and is generally inferior unless you really want to break screens breaking screens is a must. Foresight is a gimmicky option to hit Pokemon such as Gastly with Drain Punch. Taunt stops Hippopotas's Roar and Slowpoke's Slack off, and while situational, can help Timburr set up.</p>

<p>A Choice Scarf could be useful, but lacks a powerful STAB attack without a crippling drawback. A Choice Band set is hugely powerful, but Timburr's low Speed makes the difference is in bulk from Eviolite very noticeable. Rock Slide can be used to OHKO offensive Mantyke after Stealth Rock damage, but more defensive versions will only be 2HKOed by Stone Edge, not Rock Slide, making Stone Edge the superior option. Encourage-boosted Rock Slide is as powerful as Stone Edge, but is generally outclassed by Guts Stone Edge because of the broader(?) utility of Guts. Toxic is definitely an option to cripple Gligar and Slowpoke, but Timburr finds itself hard-pressed to fit it in. Superpower is very powerful and can be used on an all-out attacking set, but its side effect makes it difficult to use well. Hammer Arm is usable, but doesn't restore health like Drain Punch and is generally outclassed by it.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Croagunk can switch in without fear. Duskull takes very little damage from any attack and can easily stall out Payback due to its lower Speed, while whittling down Timburr. Faster Pokemon can try to revenge kill it, but they need to be fast and have high Special Attack, including Psychic-types such as Abra, and must watch out for Timburr's powerful Mach Punch.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Iron Fist gives its Mach Punch 20% more power, making it an incredibly useful sweeping tool. It also means Drain Punch sits at a comfortable 90 Base Power. However, the loss of Guts means Gastly, Slowpoke, and Frillish stop Timburr a lot more easily, using Will-O-Wisp or Scald to cripple it.</p>

Click to expand...

the set comments on subpunch look a little light, so idk if you want to revise them but i didn't wanna dive in and try without knowing my shit

other than that this was all really solid!

I felt that further expansion of the set comments for subpunch was unnecessary since it's the same set as the first, just with different moves. There isn't much to say to expand on that that hasn't already been said. In any case, thanks for the check, I've implemented the changes.

Why is there so many mentions of Slowbro? Slowpoke is in LC, not Slowbro.

The intro still mentions Carvanha, which is banned, and the analysis repeatedly mentions Mantyke, which has plummeted in usage to the point of being a non-issue.

Building on az's check (this is actually the first check cosmicexplorer, az isn't on gp yet)



GP Approved 1/2

implemented, thanks tobes

add
remou
a comment or 2

2/2

update this please

SORRY IT'S DONE

uploaded