Debut Team 4th Gen OU

Forretress @ Leftovers


Heatran @ Leftovers

Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 220 Spe / 32 SpA / 12 SpD /EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Substitute /Stealth Rock
- Torment /Flamethrower
- Protect /Roar
- Lava Plume /Protect​

Please state which moveset and EV Spread you think is best and WHY (either red or black)

Forretress sets down as many nentry hazards as it can whilst removing those of the opponent. It does so untill It faints or untill I predict a fire type move. If I predict a fire type move I switch In Heatran, who absorbs the fire attacks in order to power up his own. Heatran then tries to force switches using Torment, Protect and Substitute.​

Good against: Most pokemon​

Bad against: Bulky waters who can heal themselves from poison (e.g. Suicune and Gyarados)

​

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 36 SpD



Vaporeon Covers The above 2 pokemon from Heatran and Gyarados. It absorbs their Stab attacks and retaliates with Surf or Hidden Power Electric respectively. I also use Vaporeon to counter Infernape because it takes very little damage from Grass knot but can hit Infernape hard with surf. I can also use Protect to force yet more switches and Wish to give my Pokemon more durability.


Hax Nightmare Duo: Jirachi and Machamp


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 164 HP / 168 Atk / 176 Spe



Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def



Jirachi spreads Paralsys round opponents team. This Reduces them to useless 25% of the time and reduces their speeds to Machamp's pitiful level. Depending on the pokemon I'm facing, either Jirach stays in, sets up a substitute and spams Iron Head, which has a 60% chance of causing a flinch due to Serene Grace. Otherwise I switch to Machamp and use Dynamic punch to confuse them and then attack with my 2 punching attacks, resting and sleep talking when my health gets low.

Good against: Most pokemon.

Bad against: Bulky pokemon who resist paralsys. (e.g. Hippowdon and Swampert)

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)


Celebi holds the Bulky ground types at bay by spamming Grass Knot at their heavy bodies. I also knows thunder Wave so it can replace Jirachi should Jirachi faint early in the game. Recover provides instant recovery and Earth power is there to allow it to attack Steel types such as Heatran.

I do not want to change my two pairs at all if I can help it. Please feel free to suggest alternative Pokemon/moves to use instead of Vaporeon or Celebi, as long as you give a reason for your choice. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on how I could counter common pokemon using my current team, and what changes you would suggest to make it work better.

Please leave a link to any of your threads If you are interested in my advice for your teams, although I'm not sure that i'll be a lot of use for 5th Gen teams!

If you want to suggest a spinblocker other than Rotom please tell me which pokemon it should replace.

Thankyou,

Chris Pepps​

Problems
1. Lack of Stealth Rock
2. Offensive electric types (Jolteon, Zapdos)
3. DD Dragonite
4. Lack of a spinblocker with multiple entry hazards

1. Stealth Rock is arguably the best move in the game and it's been calculated to do over 200% damage in the average battle. It's a must for every team.
2. Jolteon / Zapdos have the power and coverage to KO or severely dent
everything on your team. The latter is especially threatening because it isn't affected by (Toxic) Spikes and can keep itself healthy with Roost, whether it's an offensive Life Orb variant or the infamous SubRoost Toxic one.
3. DD Dragonite, especially Lum Berry variants, can set up against Heatran, Jirachi, or Celebi. From there, with a bit of prior damage, they can outrun and KO your entire team.
4. Ghost types are necessary on all hazard-based teams to prevent Pokemon such as Starmie from using Rapid Spin making all those turns you spent setting spikes up useless.

Solutions
1. Specially defensive Heatran > current set
2. Scarf Rotom Wash > Celebi

1. Specially defensive Heatran fixes problems 1 and 2. His great typing gives him many free turns to set up Stealth Rock, and his great bulk allows him to defend against the aforementioned offensive electric types. He can also use Roar to rack up entry hazard damage.

2. Rotom fixes problems 3 and 4. He is able to outspeed and KO a boosted Dragonite with a surprise Hidden Power Ice. He also stops Rapid Spinners from getting rid of your multiple hazards in a single turn. The EVs give you bulk to take attacks from common spinners.

Sets

Heatran @ Leftovers | Calm | EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Stealth Rock | Flamethrower | Roar | Protect

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf | Timid | EVs: 252 HP / 44 SpA / 212 Spe
Thunderbolt | Hidden Power [Ice] | Hydro Pump | Trick

Good luck.

Hi!

A big problem I found with this team was from the ChestoRest Variant of Kingdra. Jirachi does neglible damage with iron head where kingdra can DD on a switch and do 50% to jirachi right off the bat. T-wave won't help since Kingdra can simply rest off the damage. Late-game, when celebi and jirachi are lower in HP, it can be a game ender. Boosting sweepers in general really dent this team, and with a lack of speed and SR, that can really hurt.

To remedy these problems, I suggest a Rotom-H (not Rotom-W as BKC suggested) which is one of the premier spinblockers of DPP OU over Celebi, to help you keep the entry hazards on their side of the field. It will also allow you to check kingdra and other boosting stuff like gyarados.

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Trick
Overheat
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball

This set will let you handle forretress, which is the most common spinner other than starmie. On the topic on forretress, you should probably run a careful nature over sassy

I suggest putting SR on jirachi over substitute, since sub isn't really doing much there, and psychic on celebi over the redundant t-wave to cover breloom Roar > Hp Electric on Vaporeon is also good, to reinforce the damage your opponent will take from hazards. Other than that, your team is pretty solid, with a unique Machamp set (which i recommend Payback over ice punch to hit ghost types). Good Luck with the team and I hope I was helpful!

@BKC
Thanks for giving a clear and justified review!
I will be sure to test the new Heatran set you suggested, although it is a variant I've never used before.
I am sure your suggestions about Rotom are valid. However, at the moment I'm doing all testing using a SoulSilver (See Beginning of original post) cartridge with Pokesav. I'm sure your aware that Rotom Appliance is only available on Platinum!
If you wouldn't mind posting another SpinBlocker I could use I would be grateful.
Also I'm slightly worried about losing the ability to cover ground types if I lose celebi. So a SpinBlocker with Levitate would be useful.

@Sam Pellegrino
Thanks for your advice.
I've decided to try using Psychic on celebi as I already have T-wave on jirachi. the Idea of killing ghost types who resist Dynamic punch is also very appealing.
I'd prefer to keep Jirachi as it is because I don't plan to open with it and set down entry hazards and the Idea is that once Sub is set up it will last a long time due to Para-flinch. Para-Flinch will hopefully give me lots of chances for a free setup.

As I said to BKC, at the moment I'm doing all testing using a SoulSilver (See Beginning of original post) cartridge with Pokesav. I'm sure your aware that Rotom Appliance is only available on Platinum!

Please feel free to sugest any other Spin Blockers I could use