[BW OU] Sun Over The Beach - Very Successful Sun Team

safariblade · Jul 24th, 2011, 1:22:18 PM

A 5th Gen OU RMT
By: safariblade
Illustrations by Arkeis

✖ Introduction ✖
Back in 2009 when I joined PokeBeach, I never really got into battling much at all, especially not competitive battling online. But with the peak of ShoddyBattle and the 4th Generation, I started battling a little bit just to try it out. I was instantly overwhelmed, a feeling that I still get today when I log onto a Pokemon Online server. But by the time that Black & White came out, I had pretty much given up on battling simply because it seemed like something too hard to just jump into. I had no idea what I was doing, and there seemed like no easy way to learn. But when Black & White finally came out, the new generation was a great opportunity to relearn everything with a fresh start. Although I was not accepted into tutoring in the Spring PokeBeach Tutor program, I still was able to learn by myself. I quickly learned, like everyone else, that Sandstorm teams were dominating. Today, weather is the way you go. But me, liking to be unique, didn't like the idea of using a cookie-cutter Sand or Rain team. So from then on, I liked the ideas of Sun teams and Hail teams. Luckily, while I was messing around some, TheDarkLucario decided to "Take me under his wing" and tutor me a bit. With his good bit of help, I learned a lot about the metagame and how I could best make a successful sun team that would not get destroyed so easily. I owe a large portion of this team to him. Thanks for the help! This team has no problem defeating non-weather teams. While laddering, I discovered that it can take Hail teams easily, and can beat poorly built Rain and Sand teams, while struggling with the better ones. I hope you enjoy reading about this team as much as I enjoy writing about it and battling with it. Please provide feedback, and thanks for reading!

Edit [9/11/11]
It has now been over two months since I started this team. Overall it has been pretty good, and is actually doing better than it ever has. It peaked #7 on The Battle Tower, and got decent ranks on both Pokemon Online and Smogon. Every common threat in the metagame is covered in some way by this team. Although I believe this team is now is in its best shape possible, I am always open to suggestions. Thanks for the support!

✖ Team Building ✖

Ninetales is of course a staple to any current sun team. Without it, there would be no automatic sun. Although it may just simply be a weather lead, Ninetales has won many battles for me. Often, Ninetales must be used to switch back in several times in order to bring back sun. For this reason I made Ninetales a bit bulky and with substitute for an extra layer of defense if needed.

The whole basis of my sun team is to use the sun to hit strong. Victini was the first choice for strong attackers. Although normally coupled with a Choice Scarf, I find that with the right prediction, Victini can do some major damage, especially in the sun. The reason why I chose him so fast was because of the raw damage that V-Create can cause in the sun.

With a Fire lead and a main Fire attacker, Politoed is a big threat, especially SpecsToed. Other bulky waters like Swampert and Jellicent could be problems too. Venusaur is a quick fix that, while having Chlorophyll, fits perfectly into a sun team, and has quite often swept entire teams because of its speed and Growth + STAB.

I knew that there would be about three major Pokemon that could wall this team. Blissey, Gliscor, & Reuniclus. At this point, I had battled many, and I knew that I needed either a Bulky counter staller, or a hard hitting sweeper to knock them down. Reuniclus is able to do do both while also fitting well in the team.

BallonTran is an obvious force in the metagame. When you add the sun, things only get better. BalloonTran was an obvious pick because of his ability to switch into Earthquakes if played right. He can really pack a punch to anything that he can outspeed. He often cleans up nicely towards the end of matches.

I figured that if I was using sun, my opponent might use it against me. Slowbro is there to take fire damage and the Slack Off it away. Currently, I also use Yawn and Flamethrower, but they could be changed. Slowbro is a great Dragon counter, killing what Heatran couldn't with Ice Beam.

Edit [7/10/11]

Slowbro was working fine, but he wasn't perfect. His purpose was to take water and fire damage and kill dragons, a niche that Starmie fits a lot better in this team. Starmie not only does more damage to Tornadus and Thundurus, but it works as a spin blocker on the team, which works well because entry hazards can tear up the team if I am not careful.

Victini was a really good teammate. He was the reason I made this team. But my problem with T-Tar was just too great. Victini shares typings with Reuniclus & Starmie, making him hard to switch in from them without being hurt bad. V-Create was strong, but on such a frail Pokemon, Arcanine is a better choice. It can OHKO T-Tar while being able to recover HP with Morning Sun. It is a great addition.

Edit [9/11/11]

Arcanine was a member of the team for a long time. And honestly, there was no reason for him to be removed, but I just felt that he wasn't the best he could be. His main job was to get rid of Tyranitar, which he did beautifully, but after that, he was easily revenge-killed. Infernape gets Close Combat, and a priority like Arcanine, plus hard hitting physical Fire Stab, and U-Turn.

✖ The Team ✖

Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SDef / 164 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar

Ninetales is the cornerstone of the team. Without her, there would be no sun to fuel the power. So as a weather lead, she is perfect. I really did expect to struggle with her int he beginning of battles, but I was surprised. There is really not much to stop her. The most common lead that can often be a problem is Tyranitar. When he is sent out, the primary goal is to keep Ninetales alive so it can come back later and set up the sun. What I normally do is go ahead and Will-O-Whisp right there. Most Tyranitars will Stealth Rock, and unless they have an Aromotherapy Blissey, the burn is essential on Tyranitar right there. Some Tyranitars are smart enough to either Earthquake or Stone Edge on the first turn. Luckily, Ninetales is bulky enough to take either of them. If they Quake, that usually means they are Choiced, so I simply switch in Heatran, avoid the Quake with his Balloon, and then decide what to do from there. (Either Earth Power for the 2HKO or predict a switch to Gliscor or something) If the Tyranitar Stone Edges, by best bet is to absorb the next one with Reuniclus. Overally, Tyranitar is pesky, but can be played around.

Swampert and Whimsicott are fairly common leads. Whimsicott dies from Flamethrower, and Swampert dies from a fairly unexpected Energy Ball. (often resulting in a ragequit haha) The reason I run Energy Ball over Confuse Ray is that Ninetales really is more important to switch and protect than to use to status. Energy Ball is a nice surprise for water types too. Speaking of which, Politoed is trouble. Although Victini's Wild Charge can kill them, the switch is often risky. The best bet is to get sun up and then Sleep Powder with Venu. Once asleep, Growth + Energy Ball can either take care of Toed or at least sweep a bit before Life Orb catches up to him.

Another bad matchup is another Ninetales. Other Ninetales like to Confuse Ray A LOT. I've learned that my best bet is to just switch to Reuniclus and try to set up. I'm highly considering Protect over Substitute on Ninetales because not only do I rarely Substitute, but Protect can help to heal Ninetales, as well as scout out which attacks are coming.

Edit [7/10/11]
I switched Energy Ball and Substitute out for Protect and Roar.

Energy Ball, while being a great surprise to some leads, ultimately was not used often. Ninetales is not made for attacking because it needs to be preserved for weather wars. It needs to be alive to restart the sun. Substitute is the same way, I rarely found myself using it, because I would often switch out anyways. There was no need to attack with Ninetales unless I can outspeed them, so Substitute is not the best option for this team's lead.

The first change I did was to Protect. The original idea was to just get a bit of Leftovers healing if I get attacked. But the best use of Protect is of course to scope out the opponent. It lets me see if a T-Tar or Toed is choiced or not. It lets me decide who to switch in. Its an overall useful and versatile move.

The second change was to add Roar. I tried this just to see if it would help with Heatran's Stealth Rock damage and help to get rid of slower but threatening leads. But the reason why I like Roar and like to keep it is to stop chains of boosts. When something Calm Minds or Swords Dances, I switch to Ninetales to Roar it away and then maybe burn it to hinder it later. It has worked successfully so far.

Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Seed Bomb
- Earthquake
- Growth
- Sleep Powder

Venusaur with sun up is such a troll. Seriously. Its EVs make it as fast as possible with Chlorophyll, and with its Nature, its Special STAB moves can pack a punch. After one Growth, this thing can OHKO Infernape, Skarmory, Excadrill, Thundurus, Jirachi, Tyranitar, and almost any water types. It can outspeed Deoxys-S and most Scarf users. Often times, if there is something that I just can't kill, I just switch over and Sleep Powder it. Then I either Growth or switch to Reuniclus to Calm Mind. Life Orb definitely helps, but it also slowly kills Venu of course. Many times, Venusaur just goes out once, kills 2 or 3 Pokemon, and then dies. It can definitely take one for the team.

But another major role of Venusaur is the fact that he is Grass type. He can switch into Water moves that try to hit all of the fire types. With sun up, the Water damage is even lowered more. Blissey can be a problem, especially if it can heal Sleep. Heatran can also wall Venu completely if something else is alseep. However, Reuniclus can take care of both. I often find my opponents switching Grass types like Whimsicott into Venu to take the Energy Balls. I think people forget just how much damage Sludge Bomb can do. Mostly, steels like Jirachi try to come in to absorb the Posion attack, but after a Growth, Energy Ball says hi. Unless there is already a Growth up, I usually switch out on Jirachi, as its flinch moves + Venu's Life Orb can kill him fast if I am unlucky.

Edit [7/10/11]
Switched the set from Special to Physical.

The idea is still the same, Sleep Powder if I am lucky, do a Growth, try to sweep until Life Orb kills me. This Physical set was suggested by Hyperbeem, and Bippa helped me to test it a bit. Earthquake takes care of Jirachi, and after one Growth, Seed Bomb OHKOs Tyranitar, who Venu can outspeed even without having sun up. The Physical set is also handy when facing Blissey, unlike the Special set.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (-Atk, +Spe)
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Rapid Spin is crucial to this team. Ninetales dies from hazards so easily when there is a whether war. And now that Arcanine has been added, Stealth Rocks cannot be left up. This set was mentioned more than once, and for good reason. It can do everything Slowbro did but better. Thunderbolt can hit a weakened Politoed for an easy kill. It can also cripple Gyarados and other Flying types. Ice beam, like Slowbro, is used to kill Dragons like Dragonite and the Lati@s brothers. It can also be helpful against the Genies and Gliscor.

Starmie can recover just like Slowbro, but with the addition of Rapid Spin, there is no Yawn that Slowbro had. But Yawn was rarely used because the Sleep Clause is usually activated by Venu pretty early into the battle. Overall, I was afraid to have Starmie not have a bulky set, but it works out very well without any Bulky EVs. It is a reliable teammate.

[size=large]Infernape[/size] @ Leftovers
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Mach Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat

Infernape is the Tyranitar killer. But unlike Victini and Arcanine, Infernape is able to become a reliable sweeper if needed. Mach Punch is to replace the Extremespeed from Arcanine, plus it gets a Stab boost. Infernape is a great addition to the team, able to call out rival Reuniclus, just to U-Turn into my own Reuniclus to take the damage. Before now, my team had nothing to really hurt Psychic-types.

Flare Blitz is able to inflict a ton of damage. Although it doesn't match V-Create, it is strong enough to sweep with, especially with Stealth Rock support. I run Leftovers because the extra health back from the Flare Blitz recoil is so helpful, and the loss of power from the lack of Life Orb isn't really that noticeable. Especially since it would be sucking my health every turn. If you have another suggestion, feel free to post.

Reuniclus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Although Reuniclus is weak to Tyranitar, Chandelure, Gengar, and other Metagame moves like U-Turn and Pursuit, His bulk and movepool easily make up for his weaknesses and his low speed. Reuniclus is an amazing stall breaker with his Magic Guard ability, eating up not only Leech Seeds and Toxics, but also his Life Orb damage. Coupled with Recover and Calm Mind, this makes Reuniclus a very bulky, but very hard hitting Sweeper. Stall teams crumble at Reuiclus' very tiny feet, as he laughs in the face of Blissey and other walls like SubGliscor.

Some Reuniclus run PsyShock, while most run Focus Blast. I run neither. while I might test out Focus Blast, I find that Shadow Ball is a nice surprise to other Reuniclus who try to out stall me with Psyshock. After some Calm Minds, a Psychic or two can take out Heatran, so there is really no need for Focus Blast, but it is always a vital option to try, especially when Tyranitar and Scizor try to troll. Another threat to Reuniclus is Roar, which is difficult to either predict or counter. I am also considering trying Conkeldurr as teammate because of their coverage of each other and also as an Anti-Tyranitar measure.

Edit [7/10/11]
Switched Shadow Ball for Focus Blast.

Everyone suggested this, so I had to try it. The reason why I will stick to it is because fighting another Reuniclus in a Calm Mind battle isn't necessary anymore because of Ninetale's Roar. Focus Blast hits Tyranitar and Heatran, as well as Blissey as a last resort.

Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse

Heatran is pretty amazing. Now that Blissey can be covered by Reuniclus, Heatran is ready to troll, especially if he still has his little Balloon. Heatran is great for absorbing Fire moves either aimed at Venusaur, or just trying to abuse the sun. However if you predict wrong, it could mean the lose of your Ballon. Or worse, if you happen to switch into a Fighting move, it could spell trouble. Flamethrower is a accurate way to get sum damage. Earth Power is for other Heatrans, and sometimes Tryranitars. Dragon Pulse is to take care of dragons, especially Latios, whose Specd Surf can only do a 4HKO in the sun.

Unlike most Heatrans who run HP Ice or Grass, I prefer Dark Pulse to hurt Reniculus who survive my own. However I haven't had too much luck, so I am open to suggestions. HP Ice isn't really needed because of Dragon Pulse, and HP Grass isn't needed for Water types, because the sun weakens them so much. Overall, the team is solid but could need improvements. Let me know what you think!!

Edit [7/10/11]
Switched Dark Pulse out for Stealth Rock

Dark Pulse might have healed against Starmie or Slowbro, but there are better and less risky counters on the team. Anything else that Dark Pulse might hit was better off being killed by Flamethrower. Stealth Rock is very important, as it damages the opponent a lot, especially if I abuse Ninetales' Roar. I am currently debating Lava Plume vs. Flamethrower. Let me know, thanks!!

✖ Past Team Members ✖

...

✖ Threats ✖

Tyranitar: If I see a Ttar on the opponent's team, they will usually lead with it in order to stop sun. I lead with Arcanine instead, and kill it with Close Combat unless they switch. Two back-up options are Reuniclu's Focus Blast, a usual OHKO (unless it misses) and also Venu's Seed Bomb, which is a OHKO after one Growth.

Politoed: The opponent acts similarly with Toed. Starmie's Thunderbolt can 2HKO and so can Seed Bomb. Reuniclus is a good option to set up and kill, but if they run Perish Song, its a bit more difficult. Toed is not too hard to play around.

Reuniclus: I never had problems when my own ran Shadow Ball, but since I switched it out Focus Blast, its harder to kill it. The best bet is to just kill it over time, Roaring it out with Ninetales.

ShakeItUp · Jul 24th, 2011, 2:25:28 PM

hey there, cool team :p
on starmie though, I would recommend running leftovers and hp fire over thunderbolt. HP fire can ko ferrothorn and forretress very easily and stop them from setting up entry hazards, primarily Stealth Rock, as a spin blocker would make starmie's job much harder. on reuniclus, I recommend leftovers over life orb, since it is a bulky calm mind set. I also really think you should run psyshock over psychic on reuniclus, as beating other calm minders is very important, and with psyshock, it is much easier to take out blissey/chansey.

Milking the Tank · Jul 24th, 2011, 2:47:03 PM

On Reuniclus, why are you running 252 EVs on Def than on SpD?

fatsnorlax · Jul 24th, 2011, 2:47:39 PM

The team looks good... Not much else to say. I also love the use of Arkeis drawings(:

Iceman Hotty · Jul 24th, 2011, 8:00:46 PM

I know you've retired Victini, but why would you ever run Wild Charge over Fusion Bolt? I realized the 8 PP can be off-putting, but the lack of recoil + higher base power would allow Victini to last longer.

gorangers · Jul 24th, 2011, 8:17:36 PM

Idk how often you run into krookodiles, but he can mess up a good portion of your team, expecially with a scarf on and moxie.

Stunt · Jul 24th, 2011, 9:02:48 PM

I suggest swords dance over growth on venusaur so you dont only get +1 on a weather change.

Unless your trying to play mindgames and feign a special set. That works too.

OptimusCrime · Jul 25th, 2011, 12:32:13 AM

Took you long enough to post this here, safari. Although I did just join, too.
I still stand by my earlier suggestions, and I hope they've been working out for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Milking the Tank

On Reuniclus, why are you running 252 EVs on Def than on SpD?

Reuniclus is easily countered by Physical attacks due to them not being affected by CM, so running the defensive EV's allows for some survivability. He even takes a Pursuit from a Mixtar quite nicely.

Icey The King Of ice · Jul 25th, 2011, 9:28:13 AM

Hi Safariblade

hey i think this team is pretty good. As a fellow sun team user (: i know that dragons are a major problem. Dragonite can sweep your team after 2 DD ( it only needs 1 DD to sweep your team in the rain or sand). dragonite can easily come in on your venusuar and set up a dragon dance as long as one of his pokemon is already asleep. You can go into starmie but it would already be too late sense it could just out speed and outrage for the 1HKO. I would suggest to run a sp defensive version on your heatran so it can take care of latias and latios and also set up stealth rock to criple dragonite. Thats the main problem i see with your team so far butyour team is pretty good as long as you got the sun up so you can go into venusaur to sleeep powder it. Or also as a suggestion you can add a hidden power (ice) on your venusaur instead of sleep powder so you can kill those dragons.

Hope i helped. (: sun teams FTW

safariblade · Jul 31st, 2011, 2:03:14 PM

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys!

@TheMasterOfOz: I'll test out your suggestions, thanks!
@fallenskater: I haven't had too much trouble. Arcanine can Close Combat it.
@Icey The King: I'll definitely try your suggestions!

Medioc · Jul 31st, 2011, 5:00:58 PM

Great team! I think I learned quite a bit from your strategy discussion- having never run a Sun Team, I've been quite curious about how they would work. I might have to try something in the Sun vein sometime, but I love how the team works. Great Balance.

My only suggestion that I can think of at the moment is that 4/6 of your team runs life orb. Meaning 4/6 of your team takes LO damage every turn. Now, I see Starmie and Reuniclus have Recover, but even so, aren't you eating a lot of damage per turn, leading to pressure being put back on you? In theory, how would you deal with with Cofagagrius or say, a dragon wall?

Perhaps what might help some is running some alternate items that ease the pressure on you, even though they'll slow your damage. Just a thought! Choice items are quite handy, as is Focus Sash and Expert Belt.

safariblade · Aug 15th, 2011, 8:13:38 PM

I'm currently testing a Physical Infernape set to replace Arcanine.
Arcanine is great, and is no problem, but I'm just trying it out. It can do everything Arcanine can (except heal) and U-Turn helps against opposing Reinuclus.

Doesn anyone know any damage calc facts that would help me decide?

safariblade · Oct 22nd, 2011, 12:03:10 PM

Updated with a Physical Infernape to replace Arcanine.
Please help me out, guys.

Reiko · Oct 22nd, 2011, 12:27:32 PM

Hey there friend

One thing I reccomend is Volcarona over Infernape/Arcanine it works really well and in the sun its unstoppable
Also I'd reccomend Forretress goes somewhere to rapid spin and all in all make your team a hell of a lot easier to use
Hope I Helped :]

mazzulmaz · Oct 22nd, 2011, 1:26:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Kobra

Hey there friend

One thing I reccomend is Volcarona over Infernape/Arcanine it works really well and in the sun its unstoppable
Also I'd reccomend Forretress goes somewhere to rapid spin and all in all make your team a hell of a lot easier to use
Hope I Helped :]

I do not agree with the post made here above. While Volcarona is indeed incredible in the sun, replacing it with Infernape will take away your only physical sweeper. Al of your other pokemon are special attacking, so Blissey or Chansey could basically wall your entire team.

You choose Victini because it could hit incredibly hard in the sun, right? Well, there is one thing that hits even harder in the sun: Darmanitan. It is a personal choice, but if you want to go for raw power, then I suggest replacing Infernape with Choice Scarf Darmanitan. It doesn't get priority, but that doesn't bother since you use a scarf. It hits crazy hard with it's Sheer Force Flare Blitz in the sun, harder than Victini does with V-Create. Here is the set:

...

Good luck with your team!

Jul 24th, 2011, 1:22:18 PM	#1
safariblade Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 10 Louisiana, United States	[BW OU] Sun Over The Beach - Very Successful Sun Team A 5th Gen OU RMT By: safariblade Illustrations by Arkeis ✖ Introduction ✖ Back in 2009 when I joined PokeBeach, I never really got into battling much at all, especially not competitive battling online. But with the peak of ShoddyBattle and the 4th Generation, I started battling a little bit just to try it out. I was instantly overwhelmed, a feeling that I still get today when I log onto a Pokemon Online server. But by the time that Black & White came out, I had pretty much given up on battling simply because it seemed like something too hard to just jump into. I had no idea what I was doing, and there seemed like no easy way to learn. But when Black & White finally came out, the new generation was a great opportunity to relearn everything with a fresh start. Although I was not accepted into tutoring in the Spring PokeBeach Tutor program, I still was able to learn by myself. I quickly learned, like everyone else, that Sandstorm teams were dominating. Today, weather is the way you go. But me, liking to be unique, didn't like the idea of using a cookie-cutter Sand or Rain team. So from then on, I liked the ideas of Sun teams and Hail teams. Luckily, while I was messing around some, TheDarkLucario decided to "Take me under his wing" and tutor me a bit. With his good bit of help, I learned a lot about the metagame and how I could best make a successful sun team that would not get destroyed so easily. I owe a large portion of this team to him. Thanks for the help! This team has no problem defeating non-weather teams. While laddering, I discovered that it can take Hail teams easily, and can beat poorly built Rain and Sand teams, while struggling with the better ones. I hope you enjoy reading about this team as much as I enjoy writing about it and battling with it. Please provide feedback, and thanks for reading! Edit [9/11/11] It has now been over two months since I started this team. Overall it has been pretty good, and is actually doing better than it ever has. It peaked #7 on The Battle Tower, and got decent ranks on both Pokemon Online and Smogon. Every common threat in the metagame is covered in some way by this team. Although I believe this team is now is in its best shape possible, I am always open to suggestions. Thanks for the support! ✖ Team Building ✖ Ninetales is of course a staple to any current sun team. Without it, there would be no automatic sun. Although it may just simply be a weather lead, Ninetales has won many battles for me. Often, Ninetales must be used to switch back in several times in order to bring back sun. For this reason I made Ninetales a bit bulky and with substitute for an extra layer of defense if needed. The whole basis of my sun team is to use the sun to hit strong. Victini was the first choice for strong attackers. Although normally coupled with a Choice Scarf, I find that with the right prediction, Victini can do some major damage, especially in the sun. The reason why I chose him so fast was because of the raw damage that V-Create can cause in the sun. With a Fire lead and a main Fire attacker, Politoed is a big threat, especially SpecsToed. Other bulky waters like Swampert and Jellicent could be problems too. Venusaur is a quick fix that, while having Chlorophyll, fits perfectly into a sun team, and has quite often swept entire teams because of its speed and Growth + STAB. I knew that there would be about three major Pokemon that could wall this team. Blissey, Gliscor, & Reuniclus. At this point, I had battled many, and I knew that I needed either a Bulky counter staller, or a hard hitting sweeper to knock them down. Reuniclus is able to do do both while also fitting well in the team. BallonTran is an obvious force in the metagame. When you add the sun, things only get better. BalloonTran was an obvious pick because of his ability to switch into Earthquakes if played right. He can really pack a punch to anything that he can outspeed. He often cleans up nicely towards the end of matches. I figured that if I was using sun, my opponent might use it against me. Slowbro is there to take fire damage and the Slack Off it away. Currently, I also use Yawn and Flamethrower, but they could be changed. Slowbro is a great Dragon counter, killing what Heatran couldn't with Ice Beam. Edit [7/10/11] Slowbro was working fine, but he wasn't perfect. His purpose was to take water and fire damage and kill dragons, a niche that Starmie fits a lot better in this team. Starmie not only does more damage to Tornadus and Thundurus, but it works as a spin blocker on the team, which works well because entry hazards can tear up the team if I am not careful. Victini was a really good teammate. He was the reason I made this team. But my problem with T-Tar was just too great. Victini shares typings with Reuniclus & Starmie, making him hard to switch in from them without being hurt bad. V-Create was strong, but on such a frail Pokemon, Arcanine is a better choice. It can OHKO T-Tar while being able to recover HP with Morning Sun. It is a great addition. Edit [9/11/11] Arcanine was a member of the team for a long time. And honestly, there was no reason for him to be removed, but I just felt that he wasn't the best he could be. His main job was to get rid of Tyranitar, which he did beautifully, but after that, he was easily revenge-killed. Infernape gets Close Combat, and a priority like Arcanine, plus hard hitting physical Fire Stab, and U-Turn. ✖ The Team ✖ Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Drought EVs: 252 HP / 92 SDef / 164 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Flamethrower - Protect - Will-O-Wisp - Roar Ninetales is the cornerstone of the team. Without her, there would be no sun to fuel the power. So as a weather lead, she is perfect. I really did expect to struggle with her int he beginning of battles, but I was surprised. There is really not much to stop her. The most common lead that can often be a problem is Tyranitar. When he is sent out, the primary goal is to keep Ninetales alive so it can come back later and set up the sun. What I normally do is go ahead and Will-O-Whisp right there. Most Tyranitars will Stealth Rock, and unless they have an Aromotherapy Blissey, the burn is essential on Tyranitar right there. Some Tyranitars are smart enough to either Earthquake or Stone Edge on the first turn. Luckily, Ninetales is bulky enough to take either of them. If they Quake, that usually means they are Choiced, so I simply switch in Heatran, avoid the Quake with his Balloon, and then decide what to do from there. (Either Earth Power for the 2HKO or predict a switch to Gliscor or something) If the Tyranitar Stone Edges, by best bet is to absorb the next one with Reuniclus. Overally, Tyranitar is pesky, but can be played around. Swampert and Whimsicott are fairly common leads. Whimsicott dies from Flamethrower, and Swampert dies from a fairly unexpected Energy Ball. (often resulting in a ragequit haha) The reason I run Energy Ball over Confuse Ray is that Ninetales really is more important to switch and protect than to use to status. Energy Ball is a nice surprise for water types too. Speaking of which, Politoed is trouble. Although Victini's Wild Charge can kill them, the switch is often risky. The best bet is to get sun up and then Sleep Powder with Venu. Once asleep, Growth + Energy Ball can either take care of Toed or at least sweep a bit before Life Orb catches up to him. Another bad matchup is another Ninetales. Other Ninetales like to Confuse Ray A LOT. I've learned that my best bet is to just switch to Reuniclus and try to set up. I'm highly considering Protect over Substitute on Ninetales because not only do I rarely Substitute, but Protect can help to heal Ninetales, as well as scout out which attacks are coming. Edit [7/10/11] I switched Energy Ball and Substitute out for Protect and Roar. Energy Ball, while being a great surprise to some leads, ultimately was not used often. Ninetales is not made for attacking because it needs to be preserved for weather wars. It needs to be alive to restart the sun. Substitute is the same way, I rarely found myself using it, because I would often switch out anyways. There was no need to attack with Ninetales unless I can outspeed them, so Substitute is not the best option for this team's lead. The first change I did was to Protect. The original idea was to just get a bit of Leftovers healing if I get attacked. But the best use of Protect is of course to scope out the opponent. It lets me see if a T-Tar or Toed is choiced or not. It lets me decide who to switch in. Its an overall useful and versatile move. The second change was to add Roar. I tried this just to see if it would help with Heatran's Stealth Rock damage and help to get rid of slower but threatening leads. But the reason why I like Roar and like to keep it is to stop chains of boosts. When something Calm Minds or Swords Dances, I switch to Ninetales to Roar it away and then maybe burn it to hinder it later. It has worked successfully so far. Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Chlorophyll EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Seed Bomb - Earthquake - Growth - Sleep Powder Venusaur with sun up is such a troll. Seriously. Its EVs make it as fast as possible with Chlorophyll, and with its Nature, its Special STAB moves can pack a punch. After one Growth, this thing can OHKO Infernape, Skarmory, Excadrill, Thundurus, Jirachi, Tyranitar, and almost any water types. It can outspeed Deoxys-S and most Scarf users. Often times, if there is something that I just can't kill, I just switch over and Sleep Powder it. Then I either Growth or switch to Reuniclus to Calm Mind. Life Orb definitely helps, but it also slowly kills Venu of course. Many times, Venusaur just goes out once, kills 2 or 3 Pokemon, and then dies. It can definitely take one for the team. But another major role of Venusaur is the fact that he is Grass type. He can switch into Water moves that try to hit all of the fire types. With sun up, the Water damage is even lowered more. Blissey can be a problem, especially if it can heal Sleep. Heatran can also wall Venu completely if something else is alseep. However, Reuniclus can take care of both. I often find my opponents switching Grass types like Whimsicott into Venu to take the Energy Balls. I think people forget just how much damage Sludge Bomb can do. Mostly, steels like Jirachi try to come in to absorb the Posion attack, but after a Growth, Energy Ball says hi. Unless there is already a Growth up, I usually switch out on Jirachi, as its flinch moves + Venu's Life Orb can kill him fast if I am unlucky. Edit [7/10/11] Switched the set from Special to Physical. The idea is still the same, Sleep Powder if I am lucky, do a Growth, try to sweep until Life Orb kills me. This Physical set was suggested by Hyperbeem, and Bippa helped me to test it a bit. Earthquake takes care of Jirachi, and after one Growth, Seed Bomb OHKOs Tyranitar, who Venu can outspeed even without having sun up. The Physical set is also handy when facing Blissey, unlike the Special set. Starmie @ Life Orb Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid (-Atk, +Spe) - Thunderbolt - Ice Beam - Recover - Rapid Spin Rapid Spin is crucial to this team. Ninetales dies from hazards so easily when there is a whether war. And now that Arcanine has been added, Stealth Rocks cannot be left up. This set was mentioned more than once, and for good reason. It can do everything Slowbro did but better. Thunderbolt can hit a weakened Politoed for an easy kill. It can also cripple Gyarados and other Flying types. Ice beam, like Slowbro, is used to kill Dragons like Dragonite and the Lati@s brothers. It can also be helpful against the Genies and Gliscor. Starmie can recover just like Slowbro, but with the addition of Rapid Spin, there is no Yawn that Slowbro had. But Yawn was rarely used because the Sleep Clause is usually activated by Venu pretty early into the battle. Overall, I was afraid to have Starmie not have a bulky set, but it works out very well without any Bulky EVs. It is a reliable teammate. [size=large]Infernape[/size] @ Leftovers Trait: Blaze EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - U-turn - Mach Punch - Flare Blitz - Close Combat Infernape is the Tyranitar killer. But unlike Victini and Arcanine, Infernape is able to become a reliable sweeper if needed. Mach Punch is to replace the Extremespeed from Arcanine, plus it gets a Stab boost. Infernape is a great addition to the team, able to call out rival Reuniclus, just to U-Turn into my own Reuniclus to take the damage. Before now, my team had nothing to really hurt Psychic-types. Flare Blitz is able to inflict a ton of damage. Although it doesn't match V-Create, it is strong enough to sweep with, especially with Stealth Rock support. I run Leftovers because the extra health back from the Flare Blitz recoil is so helpful, and the loss of power from the lack of Life Orb isn't really that noticeable. Especially since it would be sucking my health every turn. If you have another suggestion, feel free to post. Reuniclus (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Magic Guard EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Calm Mind - Recover - Psychic - Focus Blast Although Reuniclus is weak to Tyranitar, Chandelure, Gengar, and other Metagame moves like U-Turn and Pursuit, His bulk and movepool easily make up for his weaknesses and his low speed. Reuniclus is an amazing stall breaker with his Magic Guard ability, eating up not only Leech Seeds and Toxics, but also his Life Orb damage. Coupled with Recover and Calm Mind, this makes Reuniclus a very bulky, but very hard hitting Sweeper. Stall teams crumble at Reuiclus' very tiny feet, as he laughs in the face of Blissey and other walls like SubGliscor. Some Reuniclus run PsyShock, while most run Focus Blast. I run neither. while I might test out Focus Blast, I find that Shadow Ball is a nice surprise to other Reuniclus who try to out stall me with Psyshock. After some Calm Minds, a Psychic or two can take out Heatran, so there is really no need for Focus Blast, but it is always a vital option to try, especially when Tyranitar and Scizor try to troll. Another threat to Reuniclus is Roar, which is difficult to either predict or counter. I am also considering trying Conkeldurr as teammate because of their coverage of each other and also as an Anti-Tyranitar measure. Edit [7/10/11] Switched Shadow Ball for Focus Blast. Everyone suggested this, so I had to try it. The reason why I will stick to it is because fighting another Reuniclus in a Calm Mind battle isn't necessary anymore because of Ninetale's Roar. Focus Blast hits Tyranitar and Heatran, as well as Blissey as a last resort. Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Flamethrower - Stealth Rock - Earth Power - Dragon Pulse Heatran is pretty amazing. Now that Blissey can be covered by Reuniclus, Heatran is ready to troll, especially if he still has his little Balloon. Heatran is great for absorbing Fire moves either aimed at Venusaur, or just trying to abuse the sun. However if you predict wrong, it could mean the lose of your Ballon. Or worse, if you happen to switch into a Fighting move, it could spell trouble. Flamethrower is a accurate way to get sum damage. Earth Power is for other Heatrans, and sometimes Tryranitars. Dragon Pulse is to take care of dragons, especially Latios, whose Specd Surf can only do a 4HKO in the sun. Unlike most Heatrans who run HP Ice or Grass, I prefer Dark Pulse to hurt Reniculus who survive my own. However I haven't had too much luck, so I am open to suggestions. HP Ice isn't really needed because of Dragon Pulse, and HP Grass isn't needed for Water types, because the sun weakens them so much. Overall, the team is solid but could need improvements. Let me know what you think!! Edit [7/10/11] Switched Dark Pulse out for Stealth Rock Dark Pulse might have healed against Starmie or Slowbro, but there are better and less risky counters on the team. Anything else that Dark Pulse might hit was better off being killed by Flamethrower. Stealth Rock is very important, as it damages the opponent a lot, especially if I abuse Ninetales' Roar. I am currently debating Lava Plume vs. Flamethrower. Let me know, thanks!! ✖ Past Team Members ✖ ... Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Regenerator EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Flamethrower - Ice Beam - Slack Off - Yawn Slowbro's two purposes are simple. Absorb attacks, and kill Dragons. It does both fairly well. Although Fire moves are boosted by the sun, Slowbro can catch them and Slack them off pretty easily. He is helpful when facing another sun team, because Yawn can cripple sweepers when Venu would die if he misses his Powder. Slowbro is also very good at absorbing Water, not only because of his typing, but because of the sun weakening Water. Ice Beam or Flamethrower can take care of grass types trying to ruin Slowbro's fun, but Flamethrower does more damage in the sun. Ice Beam takes care of any Dragons that Heatran's Dragon Pulse could not. It also helps against Honchkrow. One problem with Slowbro is that with Flamethrower and Ice Beam, he is easily walled by Bulk Waters. If He is my last Pokemon, it is almost always Good Game. I am highly considering switching him for Starmie, able to Ice Beam, but also Thunderbolt and Rapid Spin. ... Victini @ Expert Belt Trait: Victory Star EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - V-create - U-turn - Brick Break - Wild Charge Victini is great for one reason: V-Create. In the sun with STAB, V-Create's Base Power is over 400. That means it can kill or take a chunk out of just about anything. With 100 Base Speed, Victini can outseed a decent amount of Pokemon, but its downfall is Earthquake. Luckily, with a little prediction, Balloontran can switch in to take it or a Shadow Ball. Although a Choice Scarf might seem like the best option, I have killed SO many water types with Wild Charge who think they are going to switch in on V-Create. I find that little bit of flexibility better than a speed or power boost. The bottom line is that Victini can be an amazing sweeper if played right, and in the sun, it becomes so much better for obvious reasons. ... Arcanine @ Life Orb Trait: Intimidate EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Flare Blitz - Morning Sun - Extremespeed - Close Combat Arcanine is a very appropriate replacement for Victini. It doesn't have its weakness to Dark or Ghost moves, so it can switch in at times when I predict a supereffective attack to Reuniclus or Starmie. Flare Blitz is powerful enough to kill anything that V-Create could. Wild Charge stays with Arcanine for coverage of Waters who try to switch in. Close Combat is the main reason that I switched. It can OHKO Tyranitar, a major team threat. Blissey dies too. It can also OHKO Heatran, who trys to switch in to absorb Flare Blitz. Originally, I ran Wild Charge to have more coverage over waters that like to switch in, like Politoed. I could've kept Wild Charge, but how could I resist Morning Sun, a move that heals 2/3s of health in the sun? It makes up for the Life Orb damage, but even still, I am contemplating over running Leftovers. Let me know which should be used and why. Intimidate is chosen over Flash Fire only because Heatran already has Flash Fire. Let me know your opinions on this as well. ✖ Threats ✖ Tyranitar: If I see a Ttar on the opponent's team, they will usually lead with it in order to stop sun. I lead with Arcanine instead, and kill it with Close Combat unless they switch. Two back-up options are Reuniclu's Focus Blast, a usual OHKO (unless it misses) and also Venu's Seed Bomb, which is a OHKO after one Growth. Politoed: The opponent acts similarly with Toed. Starmie's Thunderbolt can 2HKO and so can Seed Bomb. Reuniclus is a good option to set up and kill, but if they run Perish Song, its a bit more difficult. Toed is not too hard to play around. Reuniclus: I never had problems when my own ran Shadow Ball, but since I switched it out Focus Blast, its harder to kill it. The best bet is to just kill it over time, Roaring it out with Ninetales. Last edited by safariblade; Oct 22nd, 2011 at 12:04:23 PM. Reason: Update

Jul 24th, 2011, 2:25:28 PM	#2
ShakeItUp Darkravenn12: Always and Forever Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,117 Mentor	hey there, cool team :p on starmie though, I would recommend running leftovers and hp fire over thunderbolt. HP fire can ko ferrothorn and forretress very easily and stop them from setting up entry hazards, primarily Stealth Rock, as a spin blocker would make starmie's job much harder. on reuniclus, I recommend leftovers over life orb, since it is a bulky calm mind set. I also really think you should run psyshock over psychic on reuniclus, as beating other calm minders is very important, and with psyshock, it is much easier to take out blissey/chansey. Last edited by ShakeItUp; Jul 24th, 2011 at 3:58:43 PM.

Jul 24th, 2011, 2:47:03 PM	#3
Milking the Tank Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 50 Too hard to remember, CA	On Reuniclus, why are you running 252 EVs on Def than on SpD? __________________ Official Blackjack and 2NE1 Fan. FC: 5457-9100-0435

Jul 24th, 2011, 2:47:39 PM	#4
fatsnorlax Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 436 Ravnica	The team looks good... Not much else to say. I also love the use of Arkeis drawings(: __________________ In due time, you will realize that this is the single most brilliant sig you have or ever will read.

Jul 24th, 2011, 8:17:36 PM	#6
gorangers Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 17	Idk how often you run into krookodiles, but he can mess up a good portion of your team, expecially with a scarf on and moxie. __________________ Black/White FC- 1291 7603 7300 I use legal hacks. Also I won't battle someone that has retarded rules in their sig ( like banning legal pokemon and strategies).

Jul 24th, 2011, 8:00:46 PM	#5
Iceman Hotty Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 15	I know you've retired Victini, but why would you ever run Wild Charge over Fusion Bolt? I realized the 8 PP can be off-putting, but the lack of recoil + higher base power would allow Victini to last longer.

Jul 24th, 2011, 9:02:48 PM	#7
Stunt Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 188	I suggest swords dance over growth on venusaur so you dont only get +1 on a weather change. Unless your trying to play mindgames and feign a special set. That works too.

Jul 25th, 2011, 9:28:13 AM	#9
Icey The King Of ice Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 55	Hi Safariblade hey i think this team is pretty good. As a fellow sun team user (: i know that dragons are a major problem. Dragonite can sweep your team after 2 DD ( it only needs 1 DD to sweep your team in the rain or sand). dragonite can easily come in on your venusuar and set up a dragon dance as long as one of his pokemon is already asleep. You can go into starmie but it would already be too late sense it could just out speed and outrage for the 1HKO. I would suggest to run a sp defensive version on your heatran so it can take care of latias and latios and also set up stealth rock to criple dragonite. Thats the main problem i see with your team so far butyour team is pretty good as long as you got the sun up so you can go into venusaur to sleeep powder it. Or also as a suggestion you can add a hidden power (ice) on your venusaur instead of sleep powder so you can kill those dragons. Hope i helped. (: sun teams FTW __________________ My Black fc is 0905 2961 4264

Jul 31st, 2011, 2:03:14 PM	#10
safariblade Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 10 Louisiana, United States	Thanks for all of the suggestions guys! @TheMasterOfOz: I'll test out your suggestions, thanks! @fallenskater: I haven't had too much trouble. Arcanine can Close Combat it. @Icey The King: I'll definitely try your suggestions!

Jul 31st, 2011, 5:00:58 PM	#11
Medioc Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Maryland	Great team! I think I learned quite a bit from your strategy discussion- having never run a Sun Team, I've been quite curious about how they would work. I might have to try something in the Sun vein sometime, but I love how the team works. Great Balance. My only suggestion that I can think of at the moment is that 4/6 of your team runs life orb. Meaning 4/6 of your team takes LO damage every turn. Now, I see Starmie and Reuniclus have Recover, but even so, aren't you eating a lot of damage per turn, leading to pressure being put back on you? In theory, how would you deal with with Cofagagrius or say, a dragon wall? Perhaps what might help some is running some alternate items that ease the pressure on you, even though they'll slow your damage. Just a thought! Choice items are quite handy, as is Focus Sash and Expert Belt.

Aug 15th, 2011, 8:13:38 PM	#12
safariblade Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 10 Louisiana, United States	I'm currently testing a Physical Infernape set to replace Arcanine. Arcanine is great, and is no problem, but I'm just trying it out. It can do everything Arcanine can (except heal) and U-Turn helps against opposing Reinuclus. Doesn anyone know any damage calc facts that would help me decide?

Oct 22nd, 2011, 12:03:10 PM	#13
safariblade Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 10 Louisiana, United States	Updated with a Physical Infernape to replace Arcanine. Please help me out, guys.

Oct 22nd, 2011, 12:27:32 PM	#14
Reiko Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 74 DreamVille	Hey there friend One thing I reccomend is Volcarona over Infernape/Arcanine it works really well and in the sun its unstoppable Also I'd reccomend Forretress goes somewhere to rapid spin and all in all make your team a hell of a lot easier to use Hope I Helped :]