Cacturne

breh

強いだね

[Overview]

<p>Cacturne is an odd pokemon, to say the least. While its Attack and Special Attack stand out, all of its other stats are rather poor. However, Cacturne is still able to make good use of those offenses with the combination of Swords Dance and Sucker Punch, which allow it to hit hard and fast. In addition, Cacturne has a movepool filled with odd options, meaning that each set has a degree of unpredictability. Sand Veil, Cacturne's ability, drops the accuracy of most of the opponent's moves to 80% of their original value, giving Cacturne a chance to win in situations wherein it would normally lose. Cacturne's typing is a mixed blessing; while it offers a resistance to Water-type moves, which is especially useful on a sandstorm team, it has a large number of weaknesses, making it difficult to switch in on occasion. In addition, when Cacturne is up against an opponent that can avoid Sucker Punch by using status moves and resists its other moves, Cacturne loses a lot of its shine. In these situations, its weaknesses - its low Speed, lack of bulk, and awkward typing - begin to show. However, Cacturne is still a very good Pokemon overall and can be especially dangerous if left to set up.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Substitute / Spikes
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Cacturne's best shot in UU is a simple Swords Dance set that aims to utilize Cacturne's high Attack and Sucker Punch. Swords Dance is the set's main move and sharply boosts Cacturne's Attack. This turns Sucker Punch, an already strong priority move, into a wrecking ball that can destroy unprepared teams. Seed Bomb is Cacturne's second STAB move and allows it to hit hard against bulky Water-types if Cacturne can avoid a burn. The final two moves are a toss up. Substitute allows Cacturne to take advantage of Sand Veil and can potentially buy it free Swords Dances, enough of which can destroy a team. Spikes may seem out of place on such an offensive Pokemon, but is a great move to use when Cacturne is disabled by status or too weak to do much else. It also adds to the damage that the opposing team takes, which can ease Cacturne's job, especially combined with sandstorm. Leftovers gives Cacturne a bit of HP back each turn and allows it to shrug off weak hits. The EVs and nature maximize Cacturne's Attack; those remaining are spread around slightly to optimize Cacturne's bulk.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A variety of other moves can be run in the last slot: Leech Seed allows Cacturne to steal away some health each turn, Encore can potentially force the opponent into using a weak move, Low Kick hits Registeel and Cobalion hard, and Hidden Power Fire does serious damage to Escavalier. Some EVs can be taken out of bulk and put into Speed, but even relatively slow foes, such as minimum Speed Suicune, require a great deal of investment if Cacturne wishes to outspeed.</p>

<p>Cacturne works best in a sandstorm, where it can soak up Water-type moves for the team and make use of its ability, meaning that Hippopotas is a required teammate. Venomoth gives Cacturne big issues because the moth can set up to its heart's content; thus, a Pokemon with Sleep Talk, such as Regirock or Roar Suicune, is important to absorb Sleep Powder and get rid of Venomoth before it does much damage. Stoutland can also deal with Venomoth, as Stoutland outspeeds even after a Quiver Dance thanks to Sand Rush and OHKOes it. If using Spikes in the last slot, Golurk is useful to ensure that all of Cacturne's precious entry hazards are not easily removed with Rapid Spin. Aromatherapy from Pokemon such as Roserade is nice for Cacturne, allowing it to have a second chance at sweeping if it accidentally acquires a burn or is poisoned.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Cacturne possesses a rather wide movepool with many odd options. Switcheroo can be used in tandem with Choice Band or Choice Specs to make for a very hard hitting sweeper, but causes Cacturne to lose its ability to switch moves, which is crucial to its success. A Nasty Plot set is viable and definitely strong, but does not have the same oomph that Swords Dance has due to a lack of priority. Teeter Dance lowers the chance that an opponent will hit Cacturne to a measly 40%, but is not overwhelmingly reliable. A set with Substitute and Focus Punch is an option, but forces Cacturne to abandon either Seed Bomb, its only reliable STAB move, or Swords Dance, both of which are crucial. Bullet Seed has a variable base power, but breaks through Substitutes and hits Rhyperior hard. Drain Punch gives Cacturne healing, but is rather weak. Magic Coat is an odd move that allows you to reflect attempts at set up, giving Cacturne a free turn to set up, potentially netting a sweep.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>When dealing with Cacturne, it is essential to note that many of its counters are not always reliable due to Sand Veil lowering the accuracy of their moves. This means that even a would-be counter can be KOed by Cacturne if the scales are in its favor. Of its counters, Venomoth is the most dangerous one, as it can OHKO Cacturne or set up on it. However, the moth must be wary in attacking, as Cacturne's Sucker Punch deals heavy damage. Similarly, Pokemon that have setup moves and resist Grass - for example, Roserade - also cause problems for Cacturne. Pokemon that resist Sucker Punch and are faster than Cacturne, such as Hitmontop and Honchkrow, can outright OHKO it. Without a specific coverage move, Steel-types such as Cobalion, Registeel, and Escavalier give Cacturne trouble. Toxic Spikes also cause issues for Cacturne; they ensure that it will eventually die, meaning that it can be stalled out of health with relative ease.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Cacturne's Dream World ability is Water Absorb, which is not a terrible ability. However, Pokemon that use Water-type moves usually have Ice-type moves to round out their coverage, meaning that one good prediction can make Cacturne useless for the rest of the match.</p>
 
I think Stoutland should be mentioned as a partner. Stoutland is a great offensive partner to Cacturne, as it demolishes most Bug/Fire Types that give it trouble. (You'd be surprised how powerful a Stoutland Frustration is) and with also benfitting from Sand Storm, makes a great team mate. (Although Golurk is probably better if you want a 2-man offensive core))

Other then that this is perfect
 
I feel like a designated Spiker set is viable seeing as Cacturne is literally the Froslass of Sandstorm. The only difference is Cacturne's lack of TWave but that can be remedied with team support.
 

breh

強いだね
@Reliking: yeah I added mention of stoutland; it's a member of sandstorm teams anyway so I didn't give it that great a mention.

@Foxy Grandpa: although I'm not entirely against it, I don't expect Cacturne to be as effective as Froslass at setting Spikes for two main reasons - speed (which cacturne has far less of) and typing (froslass is a natural spinblocker). I'll include it if enough people want it in, though.

EDIT:

@murderface: derp forgot DW >_<

the bug weakness is not so bad since the only pokemon that use it are generally not resistant to sucker punch; venomoth is the sole exception and it doesn't take fire types to solve that problem.

EDIT2: I'm not a big fan of UU trick room (or trick room at all for that matter) but cacturne in general is a bad idea in trick room since it's not strong enough tbh. I'd argue exeggutor or something like that would be more fitting as a grass-type trickroom pokemon.
 
I think Stoutland should be mentioned as a partner. Stoutland is a great offensive partner to Cacturne, as it demolishes most Bug/Fire Types that give it trouble. (You'd be surprised how powerful a Stoutland Frustration is) and with also benfitting from Sand Storm, makes a great team mate. (Although Golurk is probably better if you want a 2-man offensive core))

Other then that this is perfect
I would say that Golurk is a better option for a teammate because Cacturne is weak to Fighting types and Golurk is immune. Having Stoutland as teammate would only add to the threat of a Fighting type. Also, a good Fire type to take care of that 4x weakness to Bug types.

Also I noticed that Cacturne has a decent Special Attack stat. Is it possible to run a mixed set or a Special set?
EDIT: I read further and you did mention a Special set. I need to read more :P. I noticed that the Special set could have speed issues? Would a Timid nature help any? Also, any mention on the usefulness of its Dream World ability?
 
EDIT:

@murderface: derp forgot DW >_<

the bug weakness is not so bad since the only pokemon that use it are generally not resistant to sucker punch; venomoth is the sole exception and it doesn't take fire types to solve that problem.
So HP Fire would do the trick if you run a special set right?

I looked in on a Special set using the moves you listed and with a Timid nature Cacturne reaches 229 Speed, unless you run HP Fire which leaves you at 228 Speed. Would good Trick Room support be worth a mention? Probably from Bronzong because it would fit well in a Sandstorm team.
EDIT: Sorry for the double post.
 
So HP Fire would do the trick if you run a special set right?

I looked in on a Special set using the moves you listed and with a Timid nature Cacturne reaches 229 Speed, unless you run HP Fire which leaves you at 228 Speed. Would good Trick Room support be worth a mention? Probably from Bronzong because it would fit well in a Sandstorm team.
EDIT: Sorry for the double post.
Zong is OU Dude, this is a UU analysis. I would guess Dusclops would be the best TR setter if you do decide to look into this. Seeing as its immune to Fighting and Resists Bug.
 

Lemonade

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You mention in the overview counters have 80% chance to fail, but I'm assuming you mean 20%? Because it would be 80% to actually hit wth a 100% move.

Also, yeah, Cacturne isn't the best in Trick Room UU, even mixed because it doesn't have good stuff to feast on. The only reason it almost works in OU is that it can eat Tar, Ferro, and Politoed all day long, and they are all common up there. It's also frailish, and I'd use Eel (even though it doesn't have priority) over it.
 

breh

強いだね
@vox: fixed (things miss against it enough that I think it's 80% :P)
@clefable: it's not so much vulnerable to priority; it's just vulnerable to things that resist sucker punch. most fighting types outspeed it anyway.

as for ice shard, it usually comes from mamoswine (which I don't think will KO without CB; still, a bad idea to stay in on) and Weavile (which would rather ice punch you; if you've gotten a few SDs, you can outright KO with sucker punch assuming it doesn't predict that and ice shard)
 
Zong is OU Dude, this is a UU analysis. I would guess Dusclops would be the best TR setter if you do decide to look into this. Seeing as its immune to Fighting and Resists Bug.
I see no reason that Cacturne wouldn't be able to fit in with an OU team with proper support. Why I said Bronzong is because its a Steel type, and since you would run Cacturne with a Sandstorm team, Bronzong doesn't receive Sandstorm damage and can set up Trick Room. But you do make a good point with Dusclops.
 
I see no reason that Cacturne wouldn't be able to fit in with an OU team with proper support. Why I said Bronzong is because its a Steel type, and since you would run Cacturne with a Sandstorm team, Bronzong doesn't receive Sandstorm damage and can set up Trick Room.

Yeah, this is an UU analysis. Ergo, we don't mention OU Pokes in the analysis.
 

breh

強いだね
bump for QC? hope it's not too soon :/

also, I'd like to know people's opinion on choice sets. cacturne gets the lesser-known switcheroo, meaning that it could be a potent choice pokemon. for specs I'd see something like giga drain/dark pulse/focus blast/hp fire (with switcheroo being over one of those moves) and for band I'd see something like seed bomb/sucker punch/low kick/switcheroo. the latter seems particularly usable.

not sure if scarf would be a good idea, though.
 
I would move Leech Seed to AC - either use Leech Seed with Substitute, or not at all, imo.

EDIT: Also, mention a full on SubSeed set in the OO as well as Life Orb and Brightpowder.

Edit 2: forgot about Brightpowder being banned... mb
 

Oglemi

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I don't quite get the EV spread. Usually straight 252 spreads are better unless those EVs in SpD and Def actually accomplish something. If the 200 HP EVs are for a Leftovers or Substitute number, then move the extra ones into either Speed (if it allows Cacturne to outspeed something) or just to SpD. Don't split the EVs unnecessarily.

Also, don't mention BrightPowder anywhere since it was banned in OU, hence it was banned in UU and below as well.



QC 1/3
 

breh

強いだね
the evs are just more efficient than 252 HP, which is what I originally had. should I change them or not?

and also no mentions of brightpowder ever existed in the analysis :)
 

Ray Jay

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One thing I might suggest for OO is Needle Arm: 30% chance of flinching is a great annoyance, especially with Cacturne's evasion. Obviously, the tradeoff is power.
 

breh

強いだね
30% flinchrate doesn't seem too great when you realize that cacturne is idiotically slow, even with significant speed investment. however, if other people want me to mention it, I'll mention it.
 

Lemonade

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add
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either it's too late or this was really good. (hinging on the latter)
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^new pic

[Overview]

<p>Cacturne is an odd pokemon, to say the least. While its Attack and Special Attack stand out, all of its other stats are rather poor. However, Cacturne is still able to make good use of those offenses with the combination of Swords Dance and Sucker Punch, which hits hard and fast. In addition, Cacturne has a movepool filled with odd options, meaning that each set has a bit of unpredictability to it. Sand Veil, Cacturne's ability, drops the accuracy of most moves to 80% of their original value, meaning that Cacturne can sometimes win in situations it would normally lose. Cacturne's typing is a mixed blessing; while it offers a resistance to Water-type moves that is especially useful on a sandstorm team, it has a large number of weaknesses, making it sometimes difficult to switch in. In addition, when Cacturne is up against an opponent that can avoid Sucker Punch by using status moves and resists its other moves, Cacturne loses a lot of its shine. In these situations, its weaknesses - its low Speed, lacking of bulk, and awkward typing - begin to show through. However, Cacturne is still a very good Pokemon overall and can be especially dangerous if left to set up.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Substitute / Spikes
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Cacturne's best shot in UU is a simple Swords Dance set that aims to utilize Cacturne's high Attack and Sucker Punch. Swords Dance is the set's main move and sharply boosts Cacturne's Attack. This turns Sucker Punch, an already strong priority move, into a wrecking ball that can destroy unprepared teams. Seed Bomb is Cacturne's second STAB move and allows it to hit hard against on bulky Water-types if Cacturne can avoid a burn. The moves in the last slot finish the set. The final two moves are a toss up. Substitute allows Cacturne to take advantage of Sand Veil and can potentially buy it free Swords Dances, enough of which can destroy a team. Spikes may seem out of place on such an offensive Pokemon, but is a great move to use when Cacturne is disabled by status or too weak to do much else. In addition, it also adds to the damage that teams take in the sandstorm. Leftovers gives Cacturne a bit of HP back each turn and allows it to shrug off weak hits. The EVs and nature maximize Cacturne's Attack; those remaining are spread around slightly to give Cacturne the most optimal bulk.</p> hmm. do they take specific hits? If they do, mention them. If not, just leave it.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>A variety of other moves can be run in the last slot: Leech Seed allows Cacturne to steal away some health each turn, Encore can potentially force the opponent into using a weak move, Low Kick hits Registeel and Cobalion that are switching in hard, and Hidden Power Fire does serious damage to Escavalier. Some EVs can be taken out of bulk and put into Speed, but even relatively slow foes, such as like minimum Speed Suicune, require very excessive investment in speed.</p>

<p>Cacturne works best in a Sandstorm, where it can soak Water-type moves for the team, meaning that Hippopotas is a required teammate. Venomoth gives Cacturne big issues because it can set up to its heart's content; thus, a Pokemon with Sleep Talk, like such as Regirock or Roar Suicune, can get rid of it before it does much damage. Stoutland can also deal with Venomoth, as it outspeeds Venomoth after a Quiver Dance and OHKOes it. If using Spikes in the last slot, Golurk is useful to ensure that all of Cacturne's precious entry hazards are not easily removed with Rapid Spin. Aromatherapy from Pokemon like such as Roserade is nice for Cacturne, allowing it to have a second chance at sweeping if it accidentally acquires a burn or is poisoned.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Cacturne possesses a rather wide movepool with many odd options to choose from. Switcheroo can be used in tandem with Choice Band or Choice Specs for a very hard hitting sweeper, but causes Cacturne to lose its ability to switch moves, which is crucial to its success. A Nasty Plot set is viable and definitely strong, but does not have the same oomph that Swords Dance has due to a lack of priority. Teeter Dance lowers the chance that an opponent will hit Cacturne to a measly 40%, but is not overwhelmingly reliable. A set with Substitute and Focus Punch is an option, but forces Cacturne to abandon either Seed Bomb, its only reliable STAB move, or Swords Dance, both of which are crucial. Bullet Seed has a variable base power, but breaks through Substitutes and hits Rhyperior hard. Drain Punch gives Cacturne healing, but is rather weak. Magic Coat is an odd move that allows you to reflect attempts at setspaceup, giving Cacturne a free turn to set up, potentially netting a sweep.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>When dealing with Cacturne, it is essential to note that many of its counters are not always reliable due to Sand Veil lowering the accuracy of their moves. This means that even a would-be counter can be KOed by Cacturne if this dark cactus it is lucky enough. Of its counters, Venomoth is the most dangerous one, which as it can simultaneously OHKO Cacturne and or set up on it. However, it the moth must be wary in attacking, as Cacturne's Sucker Punch deals heavy damage. Similarly, Pokemon that have setup moves and resist Grass - for example, Roserade - also cause problems for Cacturne. Pokemon that resist Sucker Punch and are faster than Cacturne, like such as Hitmontop and Honchkrow, can outright OHKO it. Without a specific coverage move, Steel-types such as like Cobalion, Registeel, and Escavalier give Cacturne trouble. Toxic Spikes also give Cacturne issues; they ensure that it will eventually die, meaning that it can be stalled out of health with relative ease.</p>

[Dream World]
<p>Cacturne's Dream World ability is Water Absorb, which is not a terrible ability. However, the Pokemon that normally use Water-type moves usually have Ice-type moves to round out their coverage, meaning that one good prediction can make Cacturne useless for the rest of the match.</p>
 

breh

強いだね
god damn sprites

sorry for the long time it took me to implement the check; school just started for me and is kicking my ass.
 

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