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Breloom (SubDrain)

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Breloom

[SET]
name: Offensive SubDrain
move 1: Spore
move 2: Drain Punch
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Stone Edge / Seed Bomb
item: Toxic Orb
nature: Adamant
ability: Poison Heal
evs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:


  • This set combines the disruptiveness of the Sporepuncher with the reliability of Drain Punch. The main draw is a powerful Fighting-type move that doesn't require a free turn like Focus Punch does, affording a higher level of flexibility.
  • Drain Punch backed by 394 Attack is still extremely powerful, and the second attack provides coverage against foes that don't care about Drain Punch.
  • Drain Punch alongside Poison Heal recovers extremely high amounts of HP, moreso than Leech Seed. This easily accommodates multiple uses of Substitute.
  • More difficult to play around than the Sporepuncher, as poking through Brelooms Substitutes with multi-hit moves will not disrupt Drain Punch, and a Substitute is not needed to throw a punch.
Additional comments:

The EVs are identical to those of the Offensive SubPunch set. Adamant and max Attack investment to power Drain Punch, and 244 Speed EVs allow Breloom to outpace minimum Speed base 100 foes. The rest is invested in HP for a slight increase to bulk.

Stone Edge is the primary option for the last slot, as it provides near-perfect neutral coverage, and scores a super effective hit on the Flying and Fire-types that may resist Drain Punch and threaten Breloom. Seed Bomb is more powerful against neutral targets than Stone Edge, has higher accuracy, and is more effective against foes such as Jellicent, Gastrodon and Rotom-W.

SubDrain is quite a disruptive strategy, operating in a manner similar to SubRoost or SubSplit. Breloom has no trouble subbing multiple times, as almost all of it's HP will be restored by Drain Punch. If you can abstain from using up Spore until absolutely necessary, Breloom can switch in and out repeatedly, restoring health as it goes with no penalty much in the same way that Mienshao does. It also requires less legroom than the Sporepuncher, "setting up" in fewer turns as it does not have to use Leech Seed.

If I need to include anything else, just say the word.
 
This is essentially the Offensive SubPunch set with Drain Punch in place of Focus Punch. If this set were to be included, it would merely be by mentioning Drain Punch in AC.

Even so, I don't think this deserves a mention. Minus Spore, it is due to Focus Punch's immense power behind a Sub that Breloom is so hard to switch into. Removing it for Drain Punch effectively removes this immense power threat, enabling many more foes to safely switch into Breloom. Extra HP from Drain Punch, so what? Toxic Orb + Poison Heal will already recover the damage taken from Substitute; (one turn to set it up on the switch, another for your opponent to break the sub and swallow a Focus Punch). Any extra HP is for entry hazards, but it's just a luxury; Breloom resists SR and doesn't fear Toxic Spikes. Once Breloom's Sub is broken, it is prone to being KOed by a variety of attacks due to its bad defenses and defensive typing, so any (little) extra HP means nothing; you'll gain much more by severely denting the threat with Focus Punch, dealing twice as much damage as Drain Punch would.

In short, power > unnecessary HP gain.
 
Actually, Drain Punch is a pretty useful option, because the healing it gives + Poison Heal is awesome, and it can attack even on situations where you need to attack, but can't keep a Substitute up, such as Breloom vs Ferrothorn or Breloom vs Excadrill. Still, I don't think it deserves its own set, only a mention on the AC.
 
At first I thought this set used Giga Drain...

Anyway, when you write this up be sure to mention that it's great on weather teams as it is one of the best counters to Excadrill and friends. I also think that Stun Spore is a good option also slashed with Stone Edge and Seed Bomb, also mention that if you use Stun Spore it pretty much becomes a Status platform when up against Ghost types. Also mention that even with Drain Punch, Brelooms decent bulk loses to some of the hard hitting Pokemon in the tier. Anyway, great set, I like it alot, I'll test it later.
 
Darkmalice said:
This is essentially the Offensive SubPunch set with Drain Punch in place of Focus Punch. If this set were to be included, it would merely be by mentioning Drain Punch in AC.

Even so, I don't think this deserves a mention. Minus Spore, it is due to Focus Punch's immense power behind a Sub that Breloom is so hard to switch into. Removing it for Drain Punch effectively removes this immense power threat, enabling many more foes to safely switch into Breloom. Extra HP from Drain Punch, so what? Toxic Orb + Poison Heal will already recover the damage taken from Substitute; (one turn to set it up on the switch, another for your opponent to break the sub and swallow a Focus Punch). Any extra HP is for entry hazards, but it's just a luxury; Breloom resists SR and doesn't fear Toxic Spikes. Once Breloom's Sub is broken, it is prone to being KOed by a variety of attacks due to its bad defenses and defensive typing, so any (little) extra HP means nothing; you'll gain much more by severely denting the threat with Focus Punch, dealing twice as much damage as Drain Punch would.

In short, power > unnecessary HP gain.
Click to expand...

This post sums up my thoughts perfectly. Drain Punch is also half the base power of Focus Punch, meaning a substantial loss in power. As for the AC mention, I'm kinda on the fence about that one, but I'll let the other QC members decide. However, I'm going to have to reject this, as Drain Punch doesn't need a whole set devoted to it, considering the SubPuncher plays almost identically to it. Sorry.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
Wilson, did you test the set at all?

I disagree with the "this is just the Sporepuncher with a much weaker Fighting type move" opinion. I had originally created this set by taking the SubSeeder, and replacing Focus Punch. I felt it needed a little more "kick," so I replaced Leech Seed with Stone Edge / Seed Bomb (i.e. switching to the offensive Sporepuncher.) Leech Seed healing became redundant, and I found it to be too "slow."

I understand how the SubSeeder works. I've used it, and been extremely successful, but this set is completely different. The SubSeeder sets up and becomes an impenetrable fortress, Focus Punching on free turns. It plays slowly, "camping."

SubDrain is much faster, aggressive, and versatile. You switch in, Sub to scout, then act accordingly. Drain Punch allows you to Substall opponents, say, for a miss against Fire Blast Infernape, and hit back with Drain Punch, restoring all of your health. This allows you to switch out with little to no penalty. The higher health regain also accommodates taking hits where possible.

You might be able to do something similar with the Offensive Sporepuncher, but you can't attack on the fly with Focus Punch.

The sets might look similar, but to me, they handle in a totally different way. I'd appreciate if someone tested it.

Honestly, I feel a little insulted that you gave sammaos Deoxys-S set consideration, but brushed mine off without a second thought. I wouldn't be posting this if I didn't feel that it was worth adding.
 
I really wish you would watch your tone. You're free to defend your set, but attacking QC members who disagree with you is a bad decision. Not everyone agrees with you, and saying "i tested it, it must be good, how dare you think differently" isn't okay.

That last paragraph is especially out of line. That assumption that "he gave some other set I think is bad more than 1 post and not mine, he must not have tested it and he must be biased and a jerk etc etc etc" is ridiculous and insulting, and it's a slap in the face to people who put their time in for QC.

I'm not rejecting this quite yet, but I'm not exactly enamored of the set anyway.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
I really wish you would watch your tone. You're free to defend your set, but attacking QC members who disagree with you is a bad decision. Not everyone agrees with you, and saying "i tested it, it must be good, how dare you think differently" isn't okay.

That last paragraph is especially out of line. That assumption that "he gave some other set I think is bad more than 1 post and not mine, he must not have tested it and he must be biased and a jerk etc etc etc" is ridiculous and insulting, and it's a slap in the face to people who put their time in for QC.

I'm not rejecting this quite yet, but I'm not exactly enamored of the set anyway.
Click to expand...


Defend? Attack? Freud would have a field day with you sins.

I'm not attacking Wilson. I don't know what gave you that idea.

wilson46 said:
This post sums up my thoughts perfectly. Drain Punch is also half the base power of Focus Punch, meaning a substantial loss in power.
Click to expand...

Wilson, I don't know what you're thinking, so I have to assume something. Reading your post, it seems to me that you didn't test the set at all.

I have tested the set, and it's not a case of "i tested it, it must be good, how dare you think differently." It's a case of "I tested the set and I wasn't expecting it to play so differently.

The set isn't a Subpuncher, it's a Sub + 3 attacks/Spore. Even if you do compare Focus Punch to Drain Punch, the latter has distinct advantages.

The goal of the set is not to set up a SubSeed, threatening with Focus Punch. It's to pop in and out, scouting and attacking from behind the Sub. Drain Punch is perfect for the style. It's reliable, keeps Breloom healthy, and doesn't need a free turn. If you need to punch, but can't get a sub up, that's okay.
 
Seeing as how the OP is now infracti-banned and will be for ~2 weeks, I'm locking and moving this. Anyone who wants to take up the banner of this set can feel free to do so in the actual analysis thread.
 
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