Carracosta (QC 3/3)

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Carracosta

QC:
GE:

[Overview]

  • Solid attack stat and nice offensive typing
  • Cool offensive move pool with Waterfall, Fail Edge, Hydro Pump, and Ice Beam
  • Access to Curse + Aqua Jet and Shell Smash
  • Slow as balls, even after a boost
  • Gorebyss smashes better, but Sturdy is cool
[SET]
name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Aqua Jet / Ice Beam / Earthquake
Item: White Herb / Life Orb
Ability: Sturdy / Solid Rock
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

  • Takes full advantage of Carracosta's base 108 attack
  • Smashing all day err day
  • Waterfall and Stone Edge are STAB
  • Aqua Jet picks off faster Pokemon.
  • Ice Beam hits Grass Pokemon (Torterra / Exeggutor)
  • Earthquake can be used for Edge-Quake
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Max Attack and an Adamant Nature for the most damage
  • Jolly can be used, but Carracosta is still slow with it. EV spread 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
  • For Ice Beam, use a Naughty nature
  • Can run HP Grass for Quagsire. 168 EVs are needed to guarantee a 2HKO on Specially Defensive Quagsire after Stealth Rock, while you don't need any investment at all and can retain a Jolly nature to 2HKO Physically Defensive Quagsire after SR.
  • After Smash, Carracosta out speeds Absol and Skuntank, allowing Aqua Jet to negate Sucker Punch
  • White Herb prevents Carracosta from being revenged, while Life Orb helps for that extra power boost
  • Both Abilities are useful. Sturdy guarantees a Smash, Solid Rock makes it harder to kill.
  • Needs help beating Quagsire and Grass Pokemon. Magmortar can handle Grass Pokemon, while Quagsire is dealt with by most grass types.
  • Cacturne is a great partner (Spikes and beats Quagsire)
[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Aqua Jet
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Solid Rock
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

  • Takes advantage of Carracosta's underrated bulk
  • Waterfall and Stone Edge are obligatory STAB moves
  • Aqua Jet picks off weak Pokemon and fixes horrid Speed
  • Toxic lets it cripple walls it can't handle
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Great switchin to Swellow
  • Max Attack Adamant means it's going to hit hard
  • Solid Rock is a great ability for a wall
  • Appreciates teammates who dislike the bird Pokemon or even Absol to an extent
  • Can use a bulkier spread if wanting to tank more hits.
[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Aqua Jet
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Solid Rock
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

  • Slow Pokemon + Curse + Priority = cool
  • Curse boosts attack and defense while lowering useless speed
  • Aqua Jet is priority
  • Waterfall and Stone Edge necessary STAB
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Max Attack Adamant lets it start dishing out damage after a single boost.
  • Max HP increases bulk, which is necessary on a curser
  • Can use a Specially Defensive spread if so choose (252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD)
  • Needs help with Grass Pokemon and would like the removal of Fighting types so it can set up.
  • Magmortar handles Grass types. Misdreavus is a good choice for the fighters.
  • Cacturne gets special mention for Electric types and can set up Spikes
[Other Options]

  • Rock Slide
  • Rock Polish
  • Special Shell Smash
[Checks and Counters]

  • Quagsire
  • Pokemon that are faster (not hard)
  • Rotom-S
  • Misdreavus
  • Alomomola
  • Tangela (non-Ice Beam variants)
[Dream World]

  • Gets Swift Swim, which can be kind of cool in rain since Swift Swim + Shell Smash means its speed actually wont suck
 
I've already said I'd prefer EQ to be slashed over both water moves. Because it is very dependent on your team which one you want. Carracosta is still quite slow even with the +2 boost.
 
What exactly do you need EQ for? The only thing you hit harder are Steel-types and Probopass (and I guess Poison types but after a smash who cares), and Probopass loses anyway to Waterfall. Also I know you are still working on this but god damn a utility/tank set with solid rock is damn amazing especially because you survive a whole lot of random shit like ebelt magmortar tbolt etc. Also Aqua Jet is really good because it tells Absol and Skuntank to fuck off after a Smash (you outspeed and Sucker Punch fails).
 
The only thing that EQ is good for I've found is Bastiodon, that's why I chose not to slash it in with Waterfall.

As for the tank set, thoughts on EV spreads would be appreciated.
 
blarajan said:
Why does the Shell Smash set need max speed? Isn't enough to outspeed Swellow enough?
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Brammi said:
No because alot of things run enough outspeed swellow. It bodes much better to go for more threats.
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+2 Adamant Carracosta misses out on +Spe base 100s, let alone Swellow. Jolly still comes nowhere near Swellow (though it's not like Swellow is doing anything back.....). The most that Adamant Carracosta can consider investing in bulk is 20 HP EVs so it can still outrun Timid Jynx at +2, which actually should be the main spread for the +Atk variants because there's nothing important in that 95-99 range except other 252 Speed Carracosta at +2 and a neutral nature. +Spe variants can afford to run 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe because you miss out on Tauros etc by two points so you can drop down to base 105s.
 
What Base 105s exist in NU that are important to outrun anyway? Besides... Cryogonal that never runs max Speed, and can't do jack shit to Carracosta. I think outspeeding base 95's is fine.
 
Omicron said:
What Base 105s exist in NU that are important to outrun anyway? Besides... Cryogonal that never runs max Speed, and can't do jack shit to Carracosta. I think outspeeding base 95's is fine.
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Adamant (or whatever neutral nature) outspeeds base 95s. I think it's worth mentioning that the +Spe natures outspeed up to 105s (which includes some threatening stuff like Raichu, Simisage/sear/pour, and Electabuzz) but Attack-boosting natures should be the primary option on all sets.
 
Bearing in mind that Adamant 252 Atk Stone Edge is significantly more powerful than Naughty 4 SpA Ice Beam, I think the physical set should be the main one. Ice Beam only really hits Torterra.
 
Zebraiken said:
Adamant (or whatever neutral nature) outspeeds base 95s. I think it's worth mentioning that the +Spe natures outspeed up to 105s (which includes some threatening stuff like Raichu, Simisage/sear/pour, and Electabuzz) but Attack-boosting natures should be the primary option on all sets.
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Ok, so then should I use the Nature that's + Atk - SpD for the mixed set? (don't remember what it is off the top of my head)

Edit: Missed Ice Eyes's comment. I've seen a lot more mixed than I have pure physical. If the order is based on usage, then i think that the order should stay. If not, I'd be happy to switch it if that's the general consensus.
 
MikeDecIsHere said:
Ok, so then should I use the Nature that's + Atk - SpD for the mixed set? (don't remember what it is off the top of my head)
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Naughty, yup. And I agree with Ice-eyes in saying that the physical set should be first (although Ice Beam hits Leafeon as well).

edit: did calcs, leafeon is ohko'd by +2 stone edge anyway so yeah physical set definitely first
 
edited and order swapped.
Testing out some things, but some imput for Tank set would be cool.

Assuming Physically Defensive with Solid Rock is the way to go, since Carracosta can actually tank Swellow's hits pretty well
 
The set I use is 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def with Aqua Jet / Waterfall / Stone Edge / Toxic and Solid Rock, but thats because I have SR on my team elsewhere. SR should probably be slashed over Toxic.

Edit: fuck ahahahaha i knew there was a reason I didn't use SR Carracosta
 
tennisace said:
The set I use is 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def with Aqua Jet / Waterfall / Stone Edge / Toxic and Solid Rock, but thats because I have SR on my team elsewhere. SR should probably be slashed over Toxic.
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Carracosta actually does not learn Stealth Rock (gj Game Freak). But I think that set looks good to me. I'll put a bulkier spread in AC
 
ok, honestly, 3 Shell smash sets? They could be merged into two or even a single set, considering the only one I have ever seen is Physical Shell Smash. I could see Mixed working, Special not so much. What it should be is:

[SET]
name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Aqua Jet / Ice Beam / Earthquake
item: White Herb / Life Orb
ability: Sturdy / Solid Rock
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe

HP Grass should go in AC, and full special shell smash goes in OO as per the QC team's discussion
 
Really? Full Special completely eliminates all of the physical ones counters, but if it's QC's decision, I won't object. Will merge and move everything
 
Full special seems pretty good until you realise that you're trying to sweep with base 83 SpA and 32 Spe when you could be using Gorebyss. It's okay, but physical is so much better and this analysis really needed simplification.

The 'Physical Shell Smash' set still has Ice Beam on it, it should just be 'Shell Smash'.
 
Are we removing all mentions of Ice Beam? According to Nat Geo, I thought we were leaving it in.

Anyway, removing Ice Beam. Will mention in AC
 
I would keep Ice Beam where it is right now tbh, since you kinda need to hit some of the more prominent physical walls in the tier like Tangela. Hitting Exeggutor is also a perk! That said, make sure to mention in the AC regarding HP Grass - 168 EVs are needed to guarantee a 2HKO on Specially Defensive Quagsire after Stealth Rock (Jesus Christ he's bulky lol), while you don't need any investment at all and can retain a Jolly nature to 2HKO Physically Defensive Quagsire after SR.
 
I meant that the set shouldn't be called 'Physical Shell Smash' when it has Ice Beam slashed on.

I wouldn't invest just for the sake of HP Grass 2HKOing SpD Quagsire (bearing in mind that Adamant LO Waterfall also 2HKOs it).
 
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