Back to the metagame

This is my first post here, but I'm used to play since the advanced era. And during the whole 4th gen. I only build monotypes teams, but in 5th gen. it is kinda hard to accomplish it, so I decided to build a mixed team.

Timeline:

The team:

Deoxys-D @ Rocky Helmet Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Toxic
Even leaving Magic Coat away, Deoxys-D is quite fast for a Spiker, making it a great pokemon to Taunt almost anything except for Prankster, Magic Bounce and Aerodactyl. Toxic and Rocky Helmet serves as a way to slowly damage the opponent since Deoxys-D don't need to end the match alive, this way making the work easier to Infernape and Landorus. Even it still not hitting Espeon, Toxic made this Deoxys-D less passive than the older one. Also, I'm running Toxic instead of Seismic Toss because only against stell-type and Prankster owners it is more useful, being the first one easily trappe by Magnezone and the least one being the uncommon Whimsicott, the Seismic Toss immune Sableye and Tornadus, which I can handle with Landorus or Magnezone.

Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Overheat
- Mach Punch
- Close Combat
- U-turn
I tried to run a team without it but with Tyranitar, but being a mixed swepper can get a few plays unaware. With proper setup from Deoxys-D, U-Turn'ing and Volt Switch'ing with Landorus and Magnezone can get some switches and HP from the opponent. Close Combat can hit hard many pokemon, specially the pesky Chansey and Blissey my team can't handle well. After a few Life Orb recoil Blaze activates, and Overheat can hit really hard any non-SDef pokemon, unfortunatelly it is most of the times a single hit. And the Close Combat + Overheat can wrecks most combinations of physical and special walls.





Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Magnezone is a great stell killer. With this EVs in speed it can be faster than most common Metagross and Scizor, easily 2HKO the first and OHKO the last, and luckly EQ Metagross isn't quite common. Since most of you know, Ferrothorn and Skarmory are the main prey of it. The only stells it can't handle is Heatran, sice it usually outspeed and kill Magnezone before it can do anything, and special attacker Jirachi, which will hit harder Magnezone than the physical one. Being a Choice Specs make it hit a little harder in some special walls, making it a strong guy to have late game.


Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
My new Choice Scarfer. Even being weaker than Medicham, it is faster, making a good revenge killer. And become a great weapon in opponent's Sandstorm thanks to Sand Force. Ice HP, even being common, can get some by surprise and hit hard any of the many x4 weakness so common since forever in the meta. Scouting with U-Turn with him is better than with Inferape since it doesn't have the recoil from Life Orb and better than Magnezone for being faster than the magnetic pokemon.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Ice]
I never was a huge fan of this washing machine, I never had the timing of a Trick or Volt Switch. But after using him for few times I could learn how to run it properly. Trick can wreck any wall, specially Blissey and Chansey I always have hard time to defeat. Hydro Pump is great to kill Heatran people love to use to revenge kill my Magnezone, and in the common rain it can give a good amount of damage, even if the opponent has resistence to it. With two others U-Turners and another Volt Switcher a second VSer can be really annoyng to some opponents, specially the teams that don't run entry hazards. HP ice is simply to get rid of dragons, a type my previous team had some hard time to kill.

Virizion @ Leftovers Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Virizion typing is like a improved Poison/Grass: even keeping the psychic weakness it keeps the ground resistance so useful for grass pokemon. Also, like the other members of the Musketeer trio it has awesome speed, being able of even outspeeding some +1 pokemon, and being the opposite of Terrakion it has good special status, being able to take even a non-STAB Ice attack, like the common HP ice, a few times enough to use some Calm Minds and starting to sweep. Giga Drain is the main move here: has STAB, nice base power and a recovery bonus, and get rid of the pesky bulk water pokemon I always have problems to deal with. Focus Blast is the second, less reliable and more powerful STAB move; after some CMs even Chansey must think twice switching into Virizion, the only problem with Focus Blast is the accuracy, but it is a high risk high return move. HP ice is to counter both dragons and plants, also common counters to Virizion, specially Celebi which can counter a STAB Psychic to it.


This far this team is the best one I found. I still didn't face a pokemon that could counter them. Entry hazards don't it really hard this team, making Rapid Spin unnecessary here. But maybe you still can find some problem here, but testing till now are going really well.

Hey, welcome to gen 5, congrats on the team.

You would probably need to expand your descriptions a bit, more on the roles, reasons for each move, and EV's etc but i'll try and help you out anyway.

The first thing i noticed is that you said magnezone is there to deal with ferrothorn, or course it also deals with skarmory scizor jirachi etc... But you already have infernape, t-tar and deoxys-d to counter and check both ferrothorn and skarmory. Then scizor and jirachi are both handled by gliscor. You aren't abusing magnezone with strong dragon types either. With that in mind, even though magnezone is a great poke, it stood out as the most replaceable. You mention bulky waters being a problem, namely gastrodon and quagsire, so Nasty plot celebi seems like a good solution.

Your second problem you say is scarfed pokemon namely landorus, and the second problem i notice (especially with celebi) is your weakness to entry hazards. For two birds with one stone, Deoxys-d could be replaced with physically defensive forretress. This way, you can still set up entry hazards, like deoxys-d, rapid spin away your own hazards, CAN hit Xatu and Espeon, and is a great counter for scarfers such as landorus with gyro ball. You may want to check this yourself because it seems a little off to me but choice scarfed landorus in the sands earthquake does only 35-41% damage to forretress. Toxic spikes support is also helpful against bulky waters, although don't bother setting them up if you see tentacruel/toxicroak/venusaur etc...

Here are your sets, hoped i helped.

coughing said:

Hey, welcome to gen 5, congrats on the team.

You would probably need to expand your descriptions a bit, more on the roles, reasons for each move, and EV's etc but i'll try and help you out anyway.

The first thing i noticed is that you said magnezone is there to deal with ferrothorn, or course it also deals with skarmory scizor jirachi etc... But you already have infernape, t-tar and deoxys-d to counter and check both ferrothorn and skarmory. Then scizor and jirachi are both handled by gliscor. You aren't abusing magnezone with strong dragon types either. With that in mind, even though magnezone is a great poke, it stood out as the most replaceable. You mention bulky waters being a problem, namely gastrodon and quagsire, so Nasty plot celebi seems like a good solution.

Your second problem you say is scarfed pokemon namely landorus, and the second problem i notice (especially with celebi) is your weakness to entry hazards. For two birds with one stone, Deoxys-d could be replaced with physically defensive forretress. This way, you can still set up entry hazards, like deoxys-d, rapid spin away your own hazards, CAN hit Xatu and Espeon, and is a great counter for scarfers such as landorus with gyro ball. You may want to check this yourself because it seems a little off to me but choice scarfed landorus in the sands earthquake does only 35-41% damage to forretress. Toxic spikes support is also helpful against bulky waters, although don't bother setting them up if you see tentacruel/toxicroak/venusaur etc...

Here are your sets, hoped i helped.

Hide

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ice]/[Fire]

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
-Spikes
-Toxic spikes
-Rapid spin
-Gyro ball

Click to expand...

hum... nice, really nice. I made some changes and will also test these two. later I'll show how my team became. thanks for this.

Howdy,

Welcome to Smogon. This is a pretty cool team, and I think I can help you make it better with some subtle changes. First off, I really think you should run Ice Beam > Stone Edge on Tyranitar. While you may object to losing a STAB move that is pretty reliable, Ice Beam will destroy any Gliscor that tries to come in on Tyranitar, and it is still a solid option against Dragonite and company. It also receives the benefit of not being affected by Salamence's Intimidate. Another change to Tyranitar that I can think of is removing Stealth Rock and replacing it with Superpower and moving Stealth Rock on to Deoxys-D in favor of Recover because Deoxys-D is already a viable hazard user; in fact, it can reliably get at least a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock down every game. Recover is fairly useless on Deoxys-D because you really won't need it again after you lay down hazards.

Now, I really do not see what Magnezone is doing for your team. Infernape and Tyranitar already deal with Ferrothorn and Skarmory very well, so I think you could replace it to add to your offensive side. Try out a Nasty Plot Celebi like another user suggested to ease your bulky Water-type problems. Since you already have a decent answer to Steel-types, there is literally no reason to use Magnezone. Celebi really effectively clears bulky Waters off the field. Now, you say that Choice Scarf users like Rotom-W and Terrakion are problems because they are faster than Medicham. I think a better alternative to Medicham to bring you more offense is a Choice Scarf Landorus which packs better Speed and power due to Sand Force. With Sand Force, its Attack stat is significantly larger and it does a ton of damage, while it also provides a ready check to Volcarona at +1 which will ruin this team. However, this will simply multiply your Ice-type weakness. After these changes are made, I feel as though the most replaceable member of the team would be Gliscor due to its second 4x Ice weakness and its similar role to other members on the team. Why don't you try out a Slowbro to help you patch up your physical defenses? It really works well, and it can dole out paralysis to ease your sweepers. While you may miss the useful Electric immunity and ability to set up, I believe Slowbro is a better alternative for this team.

Cool team, and good luck! I hope I helped!

Hi, Deoxys-D is a really great pokemon right now and it's nice to see others using it. Since you aren't running an attacking move on it, I would suggest getting rid of recover for stealth rocks. After it finishes setting up hazards, it can't be used for anything other than death fodder, so I think you would be better off without recover. This also allows you to have a free moveslot on tyranitar.

I don't see magnezone doing much for your team. Your team already deals very well with it, so having magnezone for it is somewhat overkill. I agree with coughing's suggestion of replacing it with Celebi. I think that your team may benefit more from paralysis support than nasty plot, however, so I would suggest a tinkerbell set.


The ev spread allows you to outspeed jolly breloom and 1hko it with HP fire after you have 2 layers of hazards down. Having the paralysis support would be of significant help to medicham, and may allow you to get rid of its scarf, making it a more effective late game cleaner.

both Lady_Alex and harsha2014, I really appreciated your tips. Some time ago I started to test Celebi and Slowbro, and they were doing really well, specially Slowbro. But I'm not sure about Magnezone, I've tested a team without Infernape because it wasn't really durable thanks to Sandstorm, making him really vulnerable to priority moves or any bulkier pokemon. For some odd reason Magnezone is starting to become one of my favorite pokemon because it can counter any Stell-type, except for Heatran and some Jirachi.

I'll be editing my team now counting with your advices and some testing I did.

bumping for the team update

.5K team rate oh yeah

Solid team however Forretress seems out of place to me. Deoxys-D does an excellent job of setting up hazards so having backup hazards is unessasary in my opinion. You team doesn't really need Forretress' spin suppot either as between Infernape an Magnezone, you will be able to put plenty of pressure on common hazard layers such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn. I recommend SubDisable Gengar over Forretress. With a spin blocker you will be able to keep your hazards up without killing offensive momentum like Forretress does. Gengar also provides you with a solid Swords Dance Lucario check which at +2, can do a fair amount of damage to your team as it stands. SudDisable Gengar gets the nod over SubSpit since it does a better job at forcing switches and racking up hazard damage. If Gengar can Disable the right moves, it can also enable your teammates to switch-in or set up more easily. Finally I recommend using Magic Coat over Toxic on Deoxys-D. Magic Coat provides your team with much more utility than Toxic such as beating Prankster leads and reflecting hazards or status. Your team doesn't even really care about a poisoned opponent as it hits so hard that Toxic's small initial damage won't matter. Furthermore, without Recover Deoxys-D isn't toxic stalling anything.

hope I helped and good luck with your team :)

BTzz said:

.5K team rate oh yeah

Solid team however Forretress seems out of place to me. Deoxys-D does an excellent job of setting up hazards so having backup hazards is unessasary in my opinion. You team doesn't really need Forretress' spin suppot either as between Infernape an Magnezone, you will be able to put plenty of pressure on common hazard layers such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn. I recommend SubDisable Gengar over Forretress. With a spin blocker you will be able to keep your hazards up without killing offensive momentum like Forretress does. Gengar also provides you with a solid Swords Dance Lucario check which at +2, can do a fair amount of damage to your team as it stands. SudDisable Gengar gets the nod over SubSpit since it does a better job at forcing switches and racking up hazard damage. If Gengar can Disable the right moves, it can also enable your teammates to switch-in or set up more easily. Finally I recommend using Magic Coat over Toxic on Deoxys-D. Magic Coat provides your team with much more utility than Toxic such as beating Prankster leads and reflecting hazards or status. Your team doesn't even really care about a poisoned opponent as it hits so hard that Toxic's small initial damage won't matter. Furthermore, without Recover Deoxys-D isn't toxic stalling anything.

Set(s)

Gengar | Leftovers
Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Sub | Disable | Focus Blast | Shadow Ball

hope I helped and good luck with your team :)

Click to expand...

I really noticed the Forretress being kinda useless here. My new updated team got rid of it. My Deoxys-D isn't a stall one, only a hazard set upper, and Toxic is to punish an opposing set upper that could face Deoxys-D and enjoy the turns I use putting the layers of hazards. Even the team being really offensive, there are some tanks that can give me some hard times, and the tests with Toxic went better than the tests with Magic Coat, even the second one being an awesome option exactly by the reasons you said there. Deoxys-D is always the first pokemon to faint here, and after setting 2 layers of Spikes and Stealth Rock and even draining some HP with Rocky Helmet it can faint without giving me any disadvantage.

Gengar is a great pokemon, but after the changes I did I can't see it doing anything better than the ones I have here. Thankfully I never had problems with Lucario, unless it stacks 2 Swords Dance.

Hey

Cool team dude. At the moment I think your biggest threat is easily sun teams. Once Infernape is gone Growth Vensasaur sweeps you cold; Deoxys-D, Landorus and Rotom-W can't touch Venasaur as they're OHKO'd by boosted Solar Beam; as of Virizion Sludge Bomb is a clean OHKO; Magnezone practically can't do anything and is also OHKO'd by Hidden Power Fire. Since majority of the sun teams do pack Dugtrio getting rid of Infernape isn't a big issue. I also don't see Magnezone's role in the team, it's basically just sitting there and massively increasing your potential weaknesses. Infernape does an excellent job breaking through steel-type mons, so Magnezone isn't necessary in my opinion. I would highly recommend replacing Magnezone for Dragon Dance Dragonite. Multiscale is the main selling point of this set, increasing Dragonite's natural bulk and making it cinch to set-up on numerous mons. Outrage is extremely powerful, literally capable of 2HKOin Heatran after a boost; Fire Punch provides perfect coverage decimating the likes of Ferrothorn, and Scizor. For the last slot, Extremespeed is essential as it picks off faster pokemon, such as Choice Scarf Landorus and Venusaur in the sun. Lum Berry cures Dragonite's status and allows it to go on a rampage once again. This change stabilizes your offensive momentum compared to Magnezone and continues it throughout the match. Sun teams could be handled effortlessly after the replacement. Dragonite also gives you insurance again Reuniclus if your Multiscale isn't broken. It essentially eliminates counters for your other sweepers and increases your ice-type weakness at the same time which could be handled with predictions.

With Dragonite added Rapid Spin support becomes an obvious necessity. Since your team packs two unwanted Choice Scarf mons Landorus and Rotom-W, one of them clearly needs to be replaced. In my opinion Landorus does a further superior job revenge killing compared to Rotom-W. Thus, you should greatly consider switching Rotom-W for Rapid Spin Starmie. It provides a pretty similar role in contrast to Rotom-W. Starmie boasts great coverage with only three attacking moves; Thunderbolt and Ice Beam together are nearly unresisted alone, and Starmie has stab Hydro Pump to back up its offensive presence. This set utilizes it's assault to Rapid Spin the potential entry hazards on the field. Life Orb allows it to destroy many walls for your other sweepers yet capable of late-game sweeping due to its high special attack and speed. Starmie also covers your weakness to Gliscor and Skarmory which made him a perfect canditate over Rotom-W. For some other minor changes, I second harsha2014's suggestion to put Stealth Rock on Deoxys-D instead of Spikes. Stealth Rock maximizes your teams efficiency as it will not have to be added on to another Pokemon’s moveset. Since your team lack a ghost-type mon to secure the hazards from rapid spinning, Thunder Wave becomes a great alternative over Toxic. It cripples many switch-ins to Deoxys-D and allows your sweepers to take on faster mons with an ease. Overall brilliant team, Good Luck!

mostwanted said:

Hey

Cool team dude. At the moment I think your biggest threat is easily sun teams. Once Infernape is gone Growth Vensasaur sweeps you cold; Deoxys-D, Landorus and Rotom-W can't touch Venasaur as they're OHKO'd by boosted Solar Beam; as of Virizion Sludge Bomb is a clean OHKO; Magnezone practically can't do anything and is also OHKO'd by Hidden Power Fire. Since majority of the sun teams do pack Dugtrio getting rid of Infernape isn't a big issue. I also don't see Magnezone's role in the team, it's basically just sitting there and massively increasing your potential weaknesses. Infernape does an excellent job breaking through steel-type mons, so Magnezone isn't necessary in my opinion. I would highly recommend replacing Magnezone for Dragon Dance Dragonite. Multiscale is the main selling point of this set, increasing Dragonite's natural bulk and making it cinch to set-up on numerous mons. Outrage is extremely powerful, literally capable of 2HKOin Heatran after a boost; Fire Punch provides perfect coverage decimating the likes of Ferrothorn, and Scizor. For the last slot, Extremespeed is essential as it picks off faster pokemon, such as Choice Scarf Landorus and Venusaur in the sun. Lum Berry cures Dragonite's status and allows it to go on a rampage once again. This change stabilizes your offensive momentum compared to Magnezone and continues it throughout the match. Sun teams could be handled effortlessly after the replacement. Dragonite also gives you insurance again Reuniclus if your Multiscale isn't broken. It essentially eliminates counters for your other sweepers and increases your ice-type weakness at the same time which could be handled with predictions.

Dragon Dance Dragonite

Dragonite @ Lum Berry | Multiscale
Adamant | 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
~ Dragon Dance
~ Outrage
~ Fire Punch
~ Extremespeed

With Dragonite added Rapid Spin support becomes an obvious necessity. Since your team packs two unwanted Choice Scarf mons Landorus and Rotom-W, one of them clearly needs to be replaced. In my opinion Landorus does a further superior job revenge killing compared to Rotom-W. Thus, you should greatly consider switching Rotom-W for Rapid Spin Starmie. It provides a pretty similar role in contrast to Rotom-W. Starmie boasts great coverage with only three attacking moves; Thunderbolt and Ice Beam together are nearly unresisted alone, and Starmie has stab Hydro Pump to back up its offensive presence. This set utilizes it's assault to Rapid Spin the potential entry hazards on the field. Life Orb allows it to destroy many walls for your other sweepers yet capable of late-game sweeping due to its high special attack and speed. Starmie also covers your weakness to Gliscor and Skarmory which made him a perfect canditate over Rotom-W. For some other minor changes, I second harsha2014's suggestion to put Stealth Rock on Deoxys-D instead of Spikes. Stealth Rock maximizes your teams efficiency as it will not have to be added on to another Pokemon’s moveset. Since your team lack a ghost-type mon to secure the hazards from rapid spinning, Thunder Wave becomes a great alternative over Toxic. It cripples many switch-ins to Deoxys-D and allows your sweepers to take on faster mons with an ease. Overall brilliant team, Good Luck!

Rapid Spin Starmie

Starmie @ Life Orb | Natural Cure
Timid | 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
~ Rapid Spin
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Hydro Pump

Click to expand...

Indeed, some Chlorophyll sweppers can give me some problems, but I'm a huge fan of Magnezone right now. It can even switch in some Choice users thanks to his stell type and after this punish the next poke with STAB Thunderbolt or Flash Cannon, and stell types being so common thanks to his Magnetic Pull it is a free kill. Except for Heatran I got used to kill any stell type with him, so I'm kinda dependant in him, especially to get rid of Ferrothorn and Scizor. Thankfully Sun teams isn't so common as rain or sand one, but I may consider this, even Magnezone being a good killer in sun thanks to his HP being fire. And lastly about Magnezone is that after getting rid of the eletric immunity always present in rain teams it can become a real boss, taking at least another poke before fainting.

I like Rotom-W mainly because it is at the same time a good swepper, not as strong as Starmie for sure, and thanks to Trick I can make some walls quite easy to deal, especially Chansey. As you stated, if I decide to run Dragonite I'd really need a Spinner, but my actual team don't need a Spinner right now, and I am quite satisfied with this since I hate to lose a turn just to spin away the hazards.

And lastly, my Deoxys already runs both Spikes and Stealth Rock, and I don't care if these hazards are spinned away because for me the opponent gave me a free turn for this.

But thanks, and in further tests I will take this weakness to Chloro teams in account.

bumping for some more criticisms on the team