Genesect(WIP)

One Down, two more to go, sorry for the long wait


Genesect

[Overview]

• Solid offensive stats along with decent speed, makes it a formidable mid game attacker or a late game sweeper.
• Wide Special movepool coupled with high Special Attack stat and Download, makes Genosect a fearsome Special Attacker.
• In the defensive department, it resists 11/17 types with only one weakness and has 71/95/95 defenses, which give it many opportunities to switch in and wreck havoc.
• Shallow Physical movepool means that great Attack stat goes to waste.
• U-turn makes up for this, as it is just as good an abuser of U-turn as Scizor is
• 99 Base Speed is unfortunate, as it misses out on the magic 100 base Speed tier, which contains many threats to this mecha bug.

[SET]
Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: U-turn
Move 2: Flamethrower
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Bug Buzz / Thunderbolt
Item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Hasty



[SET COMMENTS]

• Great Coverage with its Special Attacks
• Great Speed and good typing allows it many opportunities to switch-in and wreck havoc.
• Download boost can help both U-turn or its great Special Coverage even better
• Choice Scarf makes it a fast revenge killer, 99 Spe is pretty good for a revenge killer.
• However, Download boosts can compensate for the lack of power, when utilizing Choice Scarf

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• EVs and nature are used to outpace +1 Gyarados, Haxorus, and Dragonite with a Choice Scarf
• Modest can be used on the set for that boost in power, but you get outsped by the aforementioned dragons.
• There are many options for the last slot, U-turn makes Genosect a great scouting tool with the Scarf set, similar to Scizor. Hidden Power Ground handles Heatran, who walls this set. Thunderbolt wrecks Pokemon such as Gyarados and Jellicent

[SET]
Name: All-Out Attacker
Move 1: Flamethrower
Move 2: Ice Beam
Move 3: Thunderbolt
Move 4: Bug Buzz / U-turn
Item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

[SET COMMENTS]

• Works as a great mid-game attacker, with a wide coverage moves, and U-turn which allows it to pull out it's counters and revenge killers and land a strong hit with U-turn.
• Can work as a scout like Choice Band Scizor, since its U-turn is almost as strong, although fares much better than Scizor against the common U-turn switch-ins (Skarmory, Salamence, Gyarados).
• Can be used as a Blissey lure with Explosion for Specially based teams, although Blissey is stripped off 50% of its health with U-turn.
• Thunderbolt is for bulky-waters, specifically Jelliceny.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• U-Turn can be used in the last slot to escape checks and counters
• 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spe can be used if using Thunderbolt or any other Special Attack in the last slot (with a Timid nature).
• Explosion can also be used in the last slot, as a lucky +1 boost and Life Orb Explosion hurts alot of Pokemon

[SET]
Name: Rock Polish
Move 1: Rock Polish
Move 2: Flamethrower
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Bug Buzz / Thunderbolt
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

[SET COMMENTS]

• Works best as a late game cleaner, best used if sent on a Physically bulky opponent, that will likely switch out (Download boost).
• Download boost Genesect's Special Attack to 508 and Rock Polish boost's its Speed to 606, making it hard to wall as well as to fast to revenge kill
• Ice Beam is used to nail Dragon-type Pokemon such as Salamence, and generally has better coverage than Bug Buzz
• Bug Buzz is still good however, as Life Orb+STAB+Download greaten its power, even Bug-type resists will lose out on a chunk just by trying to absorb Bug Buzz.
• Bug / Steel typing protects it from common priority such as Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Sucker Punch and ExtreemSpeed.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• EVs outpace Jolly Excadrill in the sand after a Rock Polish
• If worried about other Rock Polish Genesects, Max Speed can be used to at least Speed tie with other max Rock Polish Genesects

[Other Options]

- Choice Specs
- Hidden Power Ground
- Explosion
- Quick Attack provides priority
- Flame Charge looks good, though it's only +1 Speed, really weak, and Rock Polish works better anyays
- Dual Screens
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Charge Beam
- Substitute
- A Physical Set, but poor movepool is poor

[Checks and Counters]

- With U-turn, actually countering this is like countering Scizor, checking it is more like it
- Chansey does a decent job of tanking any attack, and it can use Thunder Wave to cripple it, though if Genesect uses U-turn, Chansey is in trouble
- Specially Defensive Jellicent is also a decent check because it won't get the Special Attack boost and won't be nearly as powerful without that boost. Jellicent can also use Scald or Will-O-Wisp to get a burn on Genesect
- Same thing however, U-turn makes it escape
- Specially Defensive Heatran makes another good check, especially varients with Protect so it can scout for Hidden Power Ground.
- U-turn is very annoying for this as well
- Magnezone can switch in on any attack except Flamethrower and wall it, especially Choice Sets as they can't switch

U-turn is very annoying for this as well

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- Choice Scarf Terrakion can revenge kill it once it's HP is low
- Chandelure fears no attack, and it can trap it and KO it

For the Choice set, I would just run max Speed for the Speed tie on other Genesect. Afaik I haven't found any notable extra KO or KO chances that 16 Atk gives: at +0 or +1 the 16 EVs don't appear to push 3HKOes to 2HKOes to OHKOes. In the chance that it's Genesect vs. Genesect, you want the chance to win. In other words, the small benefit of max Speed outweighs the 16 EVs. I would also put (as a nifty little bit) that Genesect basically forces Pokemon with even defenses actually invest the leftover 4 EVs into Special Defense to make sure Genesect doesn't get the boost (though the Overview may be a better place).

For the all out attacker, it seems that the 80 EVs do have a purpose; I would more explicitly state what KOes it gets. Also, since Chandelure does much better against said set, I would mention partners to get rid of it--Tyranitar comes to mind, and can also set up Stealth Rock for KO help. Mention that without HP Ground you need Pokemon for Heatran. Furthermore, rain support could be mentioned in some ACs, seeing as Genesect has pretty good defenses and typing, and it can get a stronger Bolt in the BoltBeam combo (ditching Flamethrower and using Thunder).

Rock Polish is pretty solid. I would provide a calc as to how much Breloom's Mach Punch does so that users can determine if they should bail or if Genesect can survive and continue dancing. Checks and Counters is good too. U-turn is awfully bothersome lol. Can't think of anything else atm, nice detail!!

thanks V0x, great help as always, so of course i'll add once i get the chance

Name: Choice
Move 1: Thunderbolt / Bug Buzz
Move 2: Flamethrower
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: U-turn / Thunderbolt / Bug Buzz / Hidden Power Ground
Item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive / Hasty

I think the Choice set should look like that tbh. 80 Atk allows U-Turn to OHKO Serperior at +1, and Thunderbolt provides superior coverage over Bug Buzz, allowing you to touch the likes of Keldeo and Jellicent. Naive is the preferred nature so that you can take Physical priority better, such as Breloom and Conkeldurr's Mach Punches. Max speed for 1v1 Genesect situations.

Minimum Attack Scarf Genesect's U-turn is really weak, IMO. I do suggest chucking in a bunch of Attack just so it hurts a bit more. Remember for every point you put in you get the equivalent of 1.5 if you get a boost. I've been using 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe Hasty so far. That yields 308 Atk / 308 SpA each, which is pretty much the equivalent of Infernape's attacking stats, and that's pretty reasonable. I reckon a Hasty nature is preferred since it lets you switch into Latios more easily, but that's just me, I guess.

I run enough Speed for Scarf Rotom-W, and just pump those offensive stats evenly. Basically the only major speed tie you lose is vs. other Genesect, and you get to hit things way harder with the move you use the most. Also, U-turn is a must on Choiced Gene, no slashes should be there.

Princess Bri said:

Name: Choice
Move 1: Thunderbolt / Bug Buzz
Move 2: Flamethrower
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: U-turn / Thunderbolt / Bug Buzz / Hidden Power Ground
Item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive / Hasty

I think the Choice set should look like that tbh. 80 Atk allows U-Turn to OHKO Serperior at +1, and Thunderbolt provides superior coverage over Bug Buzz, allowing you to touch the likes of Keldeo and Jellicent. Naive is the A preferred nature so that you can take Physical priority better, such as Breloom and Conkeldurr's Mach Punches. Max speed for 1v1 Genesect situations.

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I am going to nitpick this set a bit.
First of all, U-turn is basically a requirement. No slashes, maybe an AC mention for HP Ground in the first slot. A Hasty nature is better because switching in on Draco Meteors and stuff is a lot easier. The EV spread looks ok, but TBH I would much rather have more Special Attack and hit hard with FlameBeamBolt. Naive can get the second slash though because of the aforementioned physical priority. A good EV spread is just 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe like V0x said because Genesect vs. Genesect. Also, spell the Choice in Choice Specs correctly, please.
Besides this set, I have something to say about the All Out Attacker.

Have you ever thought of an Expert Belt as the second or even first slash after Life Orb? Genesect has downright amazing coverage, and Expert Belt abuses that to the fullest, surprising Pokemon that think it is Choice-locked. This is not just theorymon, I actually use the thing. It is amazing. And for the nature go Naive / Hasty / Timid, Hasty is still good for those Draco Meteors. I also think that what Princess said about the EV spread needs to be mentioned here, +1 U-turn with 80 Atk EVs OHKO's Serperior. Also agreeing with mention of rain support, Thunder is awesome. I again am going to argue about the necessity of U-turn, and to relegate Thunderbolt and HP Ground to OO, maybe slashing Thunderbolt with Bug Buzz.

I also think that, in general, the total effectiveness of Heatran as a Genesect counter needs to be mentioned. Yes, HP Ground can be used, but other coverage options like Thunderbolt and the useful U-turn often win the moveslot over HP Ground. To be completely honest, I have yet to see a Genesect with HP Ground, and I use Heatran to deal with Genesect. Also, Douse Drive makes Techno Blast Water-type, an option to hit Heatran. Give it an OO mention.

That's all, sorry if I came off like I'm trying to be mean, I just kind of wrote everything bluntly.

Cheers!

pokemon0078 said:

I am going to nitpick this set a bit.
First of all, U-turn is basically a requirement. No slashes, maybe an AC mention for HP Ground in the first slot. A Hasty nature is better because switching in on Draco Meteors and stuff is a lot easier. The EV spread looks ok, but TBH I would much rather have more Special Attack and hit hard with FlameBeamBolt. Naive can get the second slash though because of the aforementioned physical priority. A good EV spread is just 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe like V0x said because Genesect vs. Genesect. Also, spell the Choice in Choice Specs correctly, please.
Besides this set, I have something to say about the All Out Attacker.

Have you ever thought of an Expert Belt as the second or even first slash after Life Orb? Genesect has downright amazing coverage, and Expert Belt abuses that to the fullest, surprising Pokemon that think it is Choice-locked. This is not just theorymon, I actually use the thing. It is amazing. And for the nature go Naive / Hasty / Timid, Hasty is still good for those Draco Meteors. I also think that what Princess said about the EV spread needs to be mentioned here, +1 U-turn with 80 Atk EVs OHKO's Serperior. Also agreeing with mention of rain support, Thunder is awesome. I again am going to argue about the necessity of U-turn, and to relegate Thunderbolt and HP Ground to OO, maybe slashing Thunderbolt with Bug Buzz.

I also think that, in general, the total effectiveness of Heatran as a Genesect counter needs to be mentioned. Yes, HP Ground can be used, but other coverage options like Thunderbolt and the useful U-turn often win the moveslot over HP Ground. To be completely honest, I have yet to see a Genesect with HP Ground, and I use Heatran to deal with Genesect. Also, Douse Drive makes Techno Blast Water-type, an option to hit Heatran. Give it an OO mention.

That's all, sorry if I came off like I'm trying to be mean, I just kind of wrote everything bluntly.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

The vast majority of the time with Genesect, I find myself U-turning. Since you are using that move the most, why not pump it a bit? Plus, you lose the speed tie basically only to other Gene if you drop speed, and you hit harder off of Attack which is always useful. I normally find Naive a bit better but it's PP.

Alright, I have some calcs for U-turn

After Stealth Rock, Genesect needs 104 EVs to always OHKO Deo-S (no DL boost).

Genesect needs 0 Atk EVs to always OHKO Latios (DL boost considered since Latios has lower Defense). If you don't have +1 Attack, maximum Atk investment and Stealth Rock will attain the OHKO.

252 HP Latias: 112 Atk EVs (DL boost accounted since Laitas has lower Defense)

252 HP Tyranitar cannot be OHKOed period. 0 HP Tyranitar has a 25% to be OHKOed by +1 252 U-turn.

You can't always break 252 HP Keldeo's Subs unfortunately, nor Chandelure's.

Idk how relevant these are, but just some thought.

Oops I forgot Serp. Doing

You need 68 EVs for the sure OHKO if you get the +1 DL boost. Otherwise, there is no 100% OHKO, even after Stealth Rock.

After Stealth Rock, Genesect needs 104 EVs to always OHKO Deo-S (no DL boost).

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It probably won't happen though, since in the case of Pokemon with equal defenses, Download always raises Special Attack.

Genesect's first set should look like this:

Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: U-turn
Move 2: Flamethrower
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Bug Buzz / Thunderbolt

Click to expand...

This commonly reflects the Genesect you'll be playing against as well. All of them have U-turn, so don't slash that with anything. Bug Buzz and Thunderbolt both hit Water-tyes, but Bug Buzz, while being a better move for cleaning, misses coverage on Gyarados, Keldeo, and Jellicent. These two moves should be in competition for a slot. Hidden Power Ground should go to AC since it has no utility outside of hitting Heatran.

Specs is pretty poor compared to All-out Attacker, since Genesect doesn't really have any scary moves to abuse it with; it really needs its coverage. OO material. Rock Polish should probably be second place, since the Download boost makes it a legitimately threatening sweeper.

Genesect always wants Hasty on mixed sets so opposing Genesect (you've noticed how there are a lot?) don't get a SpA boost, which is definitely more dangerous than Atk. If you're going Timid, just place the leftover EVs into Special Defense for that same reason.

Why isn't U-turn the main slash on the first set. It's the move that you're using the most, and is simply irreplaceable. If anything, slash Bug Buzz with Thunderbolt, as I rarely find the need to have a STAB special move when you can just kill the thing in front of you with Genesect's excellent coverage.

Sir said:

Why isn't U-turn the main slash on the first set. It's the move that you're using the most, and is simply irreplaceable. If anything, slash Bug Buzz with Thunderbolt, as I rarely find the need to have a STAB special move when you can just kill the thing in front of you with Genesect's excellent coverage.

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This. U-turn is the main thing that Genesect is used for, and though I personally think that Bug Buzz only deserves an AC mention, the order of the moves should be this.
move 1: U-turn
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Flamethrower
move 4: Thunderbolt
You get BeamThrower (my words), which is Genesect's main coverage, the main move in U-turn, great coverage like on Heatran in Thunderbolt, and Bug Buzz can be slashed if someone wants to use it, but there really is no reason to in lieu of coverage.

Bug Buzz should be slashed, given all the rain teams around, as well as the fact that it's reliable STAB. Maybe over Thunderbolt or Flamethrower?

No, Flamethrower needs to be on the set. I'd make the slash look like Thunderbolt / Bug Buzz. When using Genesect, I generally don't even have Bug Buzz on the set.

I don't think Bug Buzz should be standard since Genesect's main selling point is its excellent neutral and super effective coverage, and with a Bug-type move already on the set in U-turn, I don't think it was the moveslots needed to run it. It should be slashed into the set for sure, but it shouldn't be the standard.

I'm also doubting the Specs set. It's definitely packing power, especially with a Download boost, but now everything it could outspeed (Keldeo, Latios, Garchomp, everything with over 99 base Speed) with the Scarf now outspeeds Genesect. Garchomp has Fire Fang to OHKO it, Latios has HP Fire or a Specs Draco Meteor if Genesect is weakened, and tons of other nasty stuff. I think the Scarf set and the RP set are superior.

Agreeing with Hawkstar on Bug Buzz, it really isn't worth a slot. Also, Politoed needs a mention because it halves Genesect's Fire weakness and gives it a 100% accurate Thunder.

I come back here 6 days after my last post, and now they are so much posts to look at D:

@ everyone that wants U-turn unslashed, on the specs set i've had sucess using it without U-turn (Like Specs Hydregion in OU) So I'll just make the two sets seperate, as the scarf set should always run U-Turn

I'm not really sold on having a Specs set. Hydreigon is in the same boat as Genesect regarding Speed, but it has Draco Meteor and just-as-good coverage to make its Specs set dangerous. Genesect, even with Download and BoltBeam + Flamethrower coverage, just isn't that good since it can be walled easily so long as you predict correctly. The Choice Scarf set is much better as a momentum grabber with U-turn and late-game clean-up mon if it snags a SpA boost. Just mention Specs as an option in AC or OO.

For Scarf, what SJCrew mentioned is best -

Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: U-turn
Move 2: Flamethrower
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Bug Buzz / Thunderbolt

imo you need Bug Buzz as a solid special STAB late-game with a SpA boost. Flamethower is much more useful for OHKOing opposing Ferrothorn and Genesect, and Ice Beam is of course essential for Dragon-types. I think I will reiterate what SJCrew said here -

Bug Buzz and Thunderbolt both hit Water-tyes, but Bug Buzz, while being a better move for cleaning, misses coverage on Gyarados, Keldeo, and Jellicent. These two moves should be in competition for a slot. Hidden Power Ground should go to AC since it has no utility outside of hitting Heatran.

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Mention that Thunderbolt is better if your team has trouble with the mentioned Water-types.

On the All-Out Attacker set, you might want to slash in Expert Belt as it helps you bluff a Choice set, which can lure stuff like Ferrothorn in, only for you to OHKO with the appropriate move.

But i've had sucess using it D:<

Ok, moving Specs to OO, and all HP Ground mentions to OO as well but when Heatran walls you, don't come crying to me :D

moving on request