VGC '012 RMT- Trick Room Team

Hey, so this is my first RMT, I'm new around here. I've tried the vgc's a couple times before, but this is the first time that I've made a serious attempt, instead of just screwing around on PO. So, I'll get to the teambuilding.

Trick Room has always been my favorite environment, and its just sooo good in doubles. Negating things like Tailwind and Swift Swimmers is awesome. I had to use it. Plus, there is no need to invest in speed, so slow, bulky pokemon are able to shine. So to start off, I chose one of the best TR setters:

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Cresselia is perfect for setting up my beloved Trick Room. It's able to take pretty much any hit, shrugging off most, and still be able to set up. Although it doesn't have the best defensive typing, and pretty much no offense, the bulk and support it provides gives it the spot.



Next, I focused on a lead that could help set up TR. Users of Fake Out came to mind, as it eliminates a threat for a turn and contributes to set-up. So I thought back to the days of VGC '10, and what was one of the most popular leads:

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Hitmontop is a great Fake Out lead. Decent bulk, excellent STAB, and a good support movepool. I knew he would complement Cresselia well as a lead combo.



I wanted to use a 'mon that was pretty anti-metagame, had good bulk, good STAB's, and could take advantage of Trick Room. So my first thought was to go with Tyranitar.

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My biggest draw towards Ttar was to shut down other weather teams, while setting up weather that was more friendly to me. Also just looking at all those good stats is so satisfying, only increased by sandstorm's boost to sp. defense. Ttar is able to take most hits and attack back with incredibly powerful Crunches or Rock Slides. Just forget about the 6 weaknesses.



Another solid abuser of TR was next. Something that had staggering power and good coverage. So I went with Rhyperior.

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Rhyperior has AMAZING offensive potential, receiving stab on both EQ and Rock Slide. The concept of hitting both opponents at the same time with an attack stat that high was appealing.



I felt I needed to fill some holes up in my team now. First off, I knew that rain teams would be a big threat, so I needed something that could counter common rain abusers by doing some serious damage to them. Also, both my physical sweepers were weak to grass. And with monsters like Abomosnow and Ludicolo running rampant, this was bad:

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Rotom-W was a first impulse of mine. Good against pretty much any type of weather, I figured it would be a good choice to wash away the competition (pun intended). It resists water attacks and can hit back with STAB Thunderbolt or Discharge. Not to mention that it had great defensive typing. Scizor was the perfect counter to the previously mentioned grass-types, not to mention coverage on the many psychic-types out there, such as opposing Cresselia. Also, having 1 weakness which none of my other mons shared was great.



So I had a team here, and I tested out on the Pokemon Online VGC '012 server, and it did ok. However, there were some flaws that needed to be fixed:



I realized that having two rock types seemed pretty redundant, and there were too many attacks I was weak to. So I forego what I thought the lesser of my rock types was, Rhyperior, for something better:

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Marowak, you may ask? Better than Rhyperior? In my situation, I think yes. Having half the weaknesses that Rhyperior does, and none of them 4x, gives Marowak more survivability despite Rhyperior's greater bulk. And Marowak hits hard. Like, REALLY hard. With Thick Club, Marowak has an attack stat of 289. To put that in perspective, Deoxys Attack Forme has only 255. This is enough to tip the scales in the bone keeper pokemon's favor.



Finally, I felt that Rotom-W just wasn't do its job well enough. Too many water types took neutral or no damage from it. I thought having a grass STAb instead would be more effective:

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Ludicolo is such a great rain counter. Having two abilities that benefit from rain (only one that is applicable to my Trick Room team, of course), a water STAB to take advantage of rain, and Giga Drain to destroy pokemon like Gastrodon and Politoed all add up to a awesome addition to my team.

So that's my team building, a little simplified. Now to get into more detail.





Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
252 HP, 152 Def, 104 Sp Def
Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
31/31/31/31/31/0
- Trick Room
- Helping Hand
- Psychic
- Safeguard

My method of setting up Trick Room, the key component of my team. Cresselia's ridiculous bulk means it just doesn't die, so it stays around after setting up TR to support. Helping Hand is a great option to boost my attacks, so even neutral attacks do serious damage. Psychic is an option if I get taunted after my Mental Herb is burned, and does decent damage to leads such as Hitmontop and Hariyama even with no investment in Sp. Attk. Finally, Safeguard protects my team from Spore and Will-o-Wisp, which was plaguing me early on in team building.
Mental Herb allows Cresselia to set up TR even when taunted, which is a huge plus. I invested slightly more in Def than Sp Def because I've seen more physical leads than special. However, I may change this EV spread. Levitate is Cresselia's only ability, and it's a good one. Being immune to my own Earthquakes means I can boost them with Helping Hand with no fear.





Hitmontop @ Eject Button
Ability: Intimidate
244 HP, 252 Attk, 12 Spe
Adamant (+Attk, -Sp Attk)
31/31/31/31/31/31
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Wide Guard

Typical Intimidate Hitmontop set. Fake Out is a given, to help set up my Trick Room. Close Combat lets me deal a huge amount of damage to take care of threats such as Scrafty and Tyranitar. I use Sucker Punch to surprise Latios or Cresselia, but it is somewhat unreliable, as if the target uses a support move, highly likely in Cresselia's case, it fails. Wide Guard allows me to protect my team from spread moves, which in some cases has been a game-saver against Hail Blizzard spammers and DisQuake.
I know it may seem really odd to invest in Speed on a Trick Room team, but those 12 Speed EV's allow me to outspeed opposing Hitmontop. My Fake Out will be faster than theirs, so I can Fake Out their Top before they can Fake Out my Cresselia. I chose Intimidate to soften up attacks from power hitters like Hariyama and Garchomp. Eject Button means Top gets a free switch when hit, can come back in, Intimidate again, and use Fake Out.




Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
252 HP, 252 Attk, 4 Def
Brave (+Attk, -Spe)
31/31/31/31/31/0
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Counter
- Protect

Pretty standard Tyranitar. Standard EV spread and nature, and of course Sand Stream. Rock Slide and Crunch are great STAB's, and have coverage on common threats like Zapdos, the genies, Latios, and Cresselia. Protect is obvious for doubles, as it allows me to scout, stall, or block incoming damage.
Counter is an interesting move on Tyranitar. I took a page out of MikeDecIsHere's Sands of Time team by using it. Physical attackers never see it coming, and I can take out menaces like Hitmontop easily, as its Close Combat never OHKO's.





Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightningrod
252 HP, 252 Attk, 4 Def
Brave (+Attk, -Spe)
31/31/31/31/31/0
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Detect

My hard-hitting sweeper. Anything that doesn't resist Earthquake is pretty much dead. And with a boost from Helping Hand, Marowak is unstoppable. Rock Slide is always a good move, and Fire Punch gives me coverage on Scizor and Breloom. Detect is better than protect in case of the rare Imprison. Lightningrod is somewhat useful to shut down Zapdos, but seeing as none of my team is weak to electric anyways, it's not that helpful.






Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
252 HP, 252 Sp Attk, 4 Sp Def
Quiet (+Sp Attk, -Spe)
31/31/31/31/31/0
- Scald
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Protect

A great rain counter. I usually choose Ludicolo when the opponent has a rain team, or Ludicolo is able to wall and take down a large amount of enemy threats. Ludicolo is pretty bulky with recovery from Rain Dish and Leftovers, gaining back 1/8th of its HP each turn. And Giga Drain only adds to this. I chose Scald because of its reliability; too much of my team is weak to water to use Surf, and Hydro Pump's accuracy is shaky. Plus, the chance of a burn helps. Ice Beam gives me coverage against all dragons, seeing as I don't have a dragon of my own to take them down. And of course, Protect.





Scizor @ Flight Gem
Ability: Technician
252 HP, 252 Attk, 4 Sp Def
Brave (+Attk, -Spe)
31/31/31/31/31/0
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Acrobatics
- Protect

Ah, Scizor. Always been one of my favorite pokemon. With perhaps the best defensive typing in the game, Scizor has a slew of resistances. STAB Bug Bite, boosted by Technician, puts a hurt on Ludicolo and psychic-types. Bullet Punch is a great priority move that does a huge amount of damage. Acrobatics, boosted by Flight Gem, OHKO's most fighting-types. Protect allows me to surpass damage for a turn while my partner takes out a threat.
I used Occa Berry for a while, but most of the fire pokemon common in VGC, like Chandelure, Heatran, and Ninetales, OHKO Scizor even through the Occa Berry. The boost to Acrobatics seemed more useful.

So this is what my team looks like at the moment. In the view of fellow TR users, I'm sure this team looks, well, off. For one thing, I have only one 'mon that can set up TR. Also, my base speed stats are all middling, few are actually very slow. So what was I thinking?
Well, I seriously think having at least two pokemon with Trick Room is overrated. In VGC, you got 4 pokemon to send out. I don't really want half of my team to be carrying Trick Room; if you're on my team, you've got better things to do than have the same purpose as another mon.
TR users typically have multiple TR setters in order to have multiple options at the beginning of battle. I am comfortable enough with Cress to lead with her in almost all situations. Plus, there is an almost gurantee that I set up Trick Room within the first two turns. Seeing as Hitmontop has Fake Out, it can usually take one opponent out for the moment. Even if the other taunts Cresselia, the Mental Herb shrugs it off. If the opponent has a faster Fake Out user, who fakes out Cress, I can just wait until turn 2. Pretty much the only situations where Cress can't set up TR is when she is Fake out'd AND taunted, put to sleep first turn, or takes two incredibly powerful super-effective hits. However, none of these situations are particularly common.
Another reason why I "should" use two TR setters is to have a back-up when Trick Room runs out. Seeing as VGC is so fast-paced, having 4 turns of Trick Room is a really long time. Most of my battles take place during those 4 turns. By the time Trick Room runs out, I can usually finish off weakened pokemon with my increased priority moves, such as Scizor's Bullet Punch. And half the time, Cresselia is still alive to set it up again!

Another issue with my team that I need to explain is why it's not so slow. I found a speed niche with my team; slow enough to outslow most opponent's in TR, so I set it up, and fast enough to out-pace enemy Trick Room teams outside of TR. In this case, I counter their Trick Room with my own, returning the dimensions to normal. Either way, I have the upper hand.

I have been testing this team out on the PO VGC '012 server for a while, and it has been winning about 2/3rds of its battles. However, it's not invincible, and still could use some work. Any comments or suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

Cresselia should put more Ev's into SpDef if that and HTop is one of your favorite leads, Hiitmontop's Intimidate will help keep physical attackers from OHKOing it. Htop and Ttar both look fine. I think Rhyperior might be better then Marowak, the SpDef boost it picks up from being it a Sandstorm can make it incredibly bulky. The terrible defensive typing is an issue though, as it shares many weaknesses with TTar. Ludicolo should have Fake Out over something else, it can help Cress set up TR if the opponent has pokemon Htop doesn't do well against. Scizor looks decent.

A few notes on the team as a whole:

You should have another Poke to set up TR. Just having one tends to be a bad idea, in case it gets KOed and you need to set up TR again. Reuniclus or Chandelure could be good, as the team has no really powerful Special Attackers.

A fast Poke somehwere could also help. If you are playing against Goodstuff, having something pretty fast for backup like maybe Terrakion will help if TR goes down and your set up users of it have been KO'ed

I see your point with Cress's EV spread, I'll change that. The problem with Rhyperior is for it to be that bulky, i need to have sandstorm, and I don't always choose Ttar for my 4 pokes. I'll try out Fake Out on Ludicolo, it's just hard to find a slot on it.

Chandelure seems like a good idea, but it does share 4 weaknesses with other members of my team. What should I get rid of if I use it? I feel like there is no obvious weak member of my team. The same goes for using Terrakion.

Sanchezasaurus said:

I see your point with Cress's EV spread, I'll change that. The problem with Rhyperior is for it to be that bulky, i need to have sandstorm, and I don't always choose Ttar for my 4 pokes. I'll try out Fake Out on Ludicolo, it's just hard to find a slot on it.

Chandelure seems like a good idea, but it does share 4 weaknesses with other members of my team. What should I get rid of if I use it? I feel like there is no obvious weak member of my team. The same goes for using Terrakion.

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Chandelure could have a Focus Sash to avoid getting OHKO'd, and you would just not have TTar on your selection of 4. You could utilize a fast Ludicolo with Swift Swim to counter Rain teams, and use Timid instead of Modest to outrun other Ludicolos. I guess I wouldn't know the weak member of your team unless I was the one using it, so that ist up to you

Don't really see Counter coming into usage, even though Hitmontop can't OKHO your Ttar, nearly every other Fighting-type can.

Garchomp and other Dragons will give your team hell if Ludicolo is KO'd, maybe invest an Ice attack onto another member of your team.

Intimidate users will also have loads of fun with your team, maybe adding a slow Special Attacker would be another grand idea.

Otherwise, looks good.

The Knights of Wario Land said:

Don't really see Counter coming into usage, even though Hitmontop can't OKHO your Ttar, nearly every other Fighting-type can.

Garchomp and other Dragons will give your team hell if Ludicolo is KO'd, maybe invest an Ice attack onto another member of your team.

Intimidate users will also have loads of fun with your team, maybe adding a slow Special Attacker would be another grand idea.

Otherwise, looks good.

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The considerably common 252 Atk Adamant Htop can Fight Gem Close Combat this Tyranitar for a guaranteed KO, actually. Or is it just me that always sees Fighting Gems.... Counter can be extremely good if you call the attacks correctly

wuts up garbage :P its austin from fb kid you met at the vgc last year anyway this is my smogon name and its easier than fb so here goes my helpful hints. first off marowak is definitely a powerhouse and a great mon except for gettin intimidated/tricked out of thick club. my advice is to use a hippowdon with sand force abusing ttars sand stream. a much better mon than wak in my opinion. may i also suggest low kick on ttar, very helpful seeing as you dont have much fighting (other than top). id also replace top for scrafty itd do much better in your team. scrafty has a lot more bulk and is better in troom with moxie. you could run intim on scrafty if you wanted to. i agree with drifblim in getting another troomer. its uncommon but cresselia may not always get off the troom or the troom might run out too quick. i wouldnt say chandelure but maybe a gallade or a jellicent. hope this helped.

The Knights of Wario Land said:

Don't really see Counter coming into usage, even though Hitmontop can't OKHO your Ttar, nearly every other Fighting-type can.

Garchomp and other Dragons will give your team hell if Ludicolo is KO'd, maybe invest an Ice attack onto another member of your team.

Intimidate users will also have loads of fun with your team, maybe adding a slow Special Attacker would be another grand idea.

Otherwise, looks good.

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Ttar gets OHKO'ed by the likes of Conkeldurr, Hariyama, and Life orb/Fight Gem Top, but manages to stay afloat against pretty much everything else. I see your point though, and I have been considering sashing Ttar anyways.

Ludicolo has become incredibly valuable against dragons, and sometimes gets like 2 kills just with Ice Beam. I considered putting Ice Beam on Cress before, but I just couldn't find a slot. I might get rid of Ttar altogether, or something, to use a bulky special attacker to solve both the dragon problem and intimidate problem.

Austin, there is no way I'm getting rid of Counter. Low Kick is way too mainstream lol. And actually Counter nets quite a few surprise KO's. Also, I would use Scrafty, but Intimidate isn't released yet, which is the biggest draw towards Top. If I get rid of Ttar I'll use Scrafty to have dark stab. I wouldn't want to depend on always having sandstorm up to make hippo worthwhile, and anyways, marowak is a fucking CANNON.

Sanchezasaurus said:

Ttar gets OHKO'ed by the likes of Conkeldurr, Hariyama, and Life orb/Fight Gem Top, but manages to stay afloat against pretty much everything else. I see your point though, and I have been considering sashing Ttar anyways.

Ludicolo has become incredibly valuable against dragons, and sometimes gets like 2 kills just with Ice Beam. I considered putting Ice Beam on Cress before, but I just couldn't find a slot. I might get rid of Ttar altogether, or something, to use a bulky special attacker to solve both the dragon problem and intimidate problem.

Austin, there is no way I'm getting rid of Counter. Low Kick is way too mainstream lol. And actually Counter nets quite a few surprise KO's. Also, I would use Scrafty, but Intimidate isn't released yet, which is the biggest
draw towards Top. If I get rid of Ttar I'll use Scrafty to have dark stab. I wouldn't want to depend on always having sandstorm up to make hippo worthwhile, and anyways, marowak is a fucking CANNON.

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lol ye i used to run him on my team i could take down entire team with his earthquakes. too mainstream wth is that :P im not a fan of top or ttar. sandstorm hurts your team half the time and ttar has too many weaknesses imo. some people love him i just dont know why :P scrafty's moxie is a great ability... he walls a ton with chople berry and he slowly turns into a powerhouse with moxie. ive had scrafty take down entire teams if youre looking for good dark stab

I'll try out Scrafty some, and I might test using something special in place of Ttar.

Trick room teams need at least a second trick roomer. If you're looking for pure bulk, you could try eviolite porygon2, which comes with the handy boltbeam coverage and recover.