The Great Southern Trendkill

Funkasaurus · May 27th, 2012, 6:42:11 PM

Hello Smogon, my name is Funkasaurus, presenting a joint RMT of a team I made with my tutor, BKC. I've had a good amount of success with this team, peaking 7th on the ladder with 1561 points. I also used this team to reach semi-finals of No Johns II, where I lost in an extremely close game against K-12 The Madchine. Lastly, I used this team to win the last BW OU tour of season thirteen. On both the ladder and in the tournaments, I defeated some top players, proving that this team can hang with the best. BKC's used the team as well, reaching 6th on the ladder with 1568 points. This team has spread around the ladder a fair bit; someone recently asked me if I was using "Princess Bri's team", since she used the team after BKC lent it to her. That pretty much spurred us to make this RMT, since the team has pretty much peaked in effectiveness and I can't stand the thought of it being known as someone else's, so it's time
to showcase it and get advice for fixing some of its weaknesses. Enjoy.

Team Building

Hippowdon -- Underground In America
Sand Stream | Careful | Leftovers
252 HP | 16 Def | 240 SDef
Stealth Rock | Slack Off | Earthquake | Ice Fang

Most people opt for Tyranitar as their Sandstreamer and Stealth Rocker, but in my opinion, that's a waste of Tyranitar's potential. That, and Hippowdon is just so much better. He is bulky as all hell, and has recovery, which lets him stick around a very long time -- excellent for winning weather wars. Hippo is also not Dugtrio prone, making him much more effective against Drought teams than Tyranitar. Special Defense EVs seem like a waste on a 'mon with such great physical Defense, but they work, since Hippo's high HP balances out his rather poor SpD. With this EV spread, he's able to check SubSplit Gengar rather reliably, and he cannot be OHKO'd by Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor. Everyone's favorite SpD MixTar can barely scratch it with super-effective Ice Beams. However, Hippo is no slacker on the physical side, either; he's able to avoid a 2HKO from Landorus's Earthquake, while Expert Belt-boosted Hidden Power Ice can't 2HKO either, thanks to the SpD investment.

Forretress -- 13 Steps to Nowhere
Sturdy | Bold | Leftovers
240 HP | 216 Def | 52 SAtk
Spikes | Rapid Spin | Volt Switch | Hidden Power Ice

This set was recently featured in the twentieth edition of The Smog, but it's has been around for a long time, and it's very effective. Just like 99.99% of teams, this team needed a rapid spinner. Forretress, unlike most rapid spinners, has access to Spikes, which is perfect for this team. On top of that, Forretress has an excellent Defense stat. Volt Switch and Hidden Power Ice help give Forre a "BoltBeam" attacking combination. Volt Switch helps gain offensive momentum and escaping Magnezone's Magnet trapping abilities. And Hidden Power Ice helps against Dragon types, like Salamence and Dragonite, and Ground types like Gliscor and Landorus. The investment of 52 special attack EVs help Forretress do some "serious damage." No, not really. It helps score 2HKOs on the aforementioned Landorus and Gliscor with Hidden Power Ice. Not only that, it takes a nice chunk out of Gyarados with Volt Switch. Forretress is a great utility mon who has shown surprising offensive capabilities, so BKC and I refer to this guy as "THE BIG SWEEPER."

Jellicent -- Floods
Cursed Body | Bold | Leftovers
248 HP | 252 Def | 8 SDef
Shadow Ball | Taunt | Will-o-Wisp | Recover

This is the premier spin-blocker of BW OU. There are other Ghost-types, of course, but none are as solid as Jellicent at preserving hazards. Gengar is fast and strong, but too frail and is 2HKO'd by pretty much every spinner. Dusclops has a ton of bulk, but it has no recovery and is set-up fodder. Jellicent isn't exactly an offensive force, and it isn't quite as bulky as Dusclops, but it has instant recovery and is a lot harder to set-up on, thanks to Taunt, which also makes a fine stallbreaker in conjunction with Will-o-Wisp. Shadow Ball is used over Scald to actually do something back to Starmie, who Jelli is used to spin-block against. It also helps against stallbreaker Mew. Cursed Body is used over Water Absorb because disabling an opponent's move while Recover stalling has been a life-saver many times. While we initially ran a lot of Speed EVs, we eventually shifted over to max Defense so Tyranitar has a harder time trapping.

Roserade -- 10's
Natural Cure | Modest | Black Sludge
208 HP | 124 Def | 60 SAtk | 116 SDef
Sleep Powder | Giga Drain | Hidden Power Fire | Rest

A defensive sandstorm team needs a reliable switch to Rotom-W, preferably one who can also handle its omnipresent partner, Scizor. Roserade performs this task admirably. Burns are shrugged off by Natural Cure, Volt Switch/Hydro Pump barely scratch it, and HP Fire/Ice don't do too much either, thanks to Rossy's high Special Defense. Not to mention, Rossy absorbs Toxic Spikes, which helps Hippowdon and Jellicent's survivability. Thanks to the defense investment, Scizor's Bullet Punch will not KO and HP Fire will often OHKO after Stealth Rock. Most defensive Roserade run a Spiking set of some sort, but since we already had Forretress for Spikes, and T-Spikes aren't always that effective, we figured sticking with this set would be beneficial, and it has yet to let us down. Rest is great recovery since Natural Cure will remove the sleep condition upon switching out. We've used Leaf Storm over Giga Drain for extra power before, but the low PP was off-putting in longer battles.

Jirachi -- War Nerve
Serene Grace | Adamant | Choice Scarf
16 HP | 216 Atk | 36 SDef | 240 Spe
U-turn | Iron Head | Ice Punch | Trick

We needed a second Steel-type, and we needed some speed, as our team was slow as dirt. Enter Jirachi, whose revenge-killing capabilities are top-notch. We're running Adamant as the nature because Jirachi's Attack stat leaves something to be desired, and since even with a Jolly nature we can't outspeed Scarf Landorus / Terrakion, Adamant is the way to go. We dropped the Speed EVs low enough to beat Scarf Hydreigon / Haxorus, then added a bit of bulk since this is our main switch to Latios. U-turn is great for gaining switch advantage, and it's excellent at warding off Celebi. Iron Head is Jirachi's signature move that causes ragequits galore. Ice Punch is used because this is our check to Dragon Dance Dragons, such as Dragonite and Haxorus. It also destroys Expert Belt Landorus and opposing AcroBats.

Gliscor -- Sandblasted Skin
Sand Veil | Jolly | Flying Gem
16 HP | 252 Atk | 64 Def | 176 Spe
Substitute | Swords Dance | Earthquake | Acrobatics

Ah, the star of the show. The very thing this team was built around. The reason for the team's very existence. With a Jolly nature and 176 speed EVs, Gliscor can outspeed Pokemon such as Modest Hydreigon and Adamant Haxorus, reaching a 297 speed stat. Acrobatics does indeed OHKO common Grass-type threats such as Nasty Plot Celebi, Venusaur, and Breloom without any attack boosts. The biggest threat to this set is, of course, Skarmory; great bulk lets it shrug off even Swords Danced attacks and it can either Whirlwind to get rid of the boost[s] and rack up damage from the Spikes it lays, or simply chip away at Gliscor's health with Brave Bird, Roosting to recover health when necessary. However, Skarm is taken care of by Forretress, Roserade, and Jellicent; even Jirachi can Trick a Scarf onto it in a pinch, so it's sufficient to say that the rest of the team handles the metal bird well. Sand Veil is a valuable ability to Gliscor as Garchomp-esque miss-fishing can be greatly helpful in pulling off a sweep. For those of you who played during the Garchomp era, you will notice the similarities between Chomp's trademark SubSD set and this Gliscor; their playstyle is very similar. Early game, fire off attacks to check threats or weaken counters; late-game, set up and cleave through weakened teams.

Conclusion
I've enjoyed using this team. Since making it, it's been my "go to" team. So I figured it's best to retire it after it's helped me achieve so much. Please post if you have any suggestions on how to better this team. Thanks for reading.

BKC · May 27th, 2012, 6:43:43 PM

export

PenguinX · May 27th, 2012, 7:14:32 PM

You can pretty much tell BKC was involved in making this team purely from the random, unspecific EV spreads haha.

I'd really like to see you go back to a faster variant of Jellicent, purely because with such a slow spread you aren't outspeeding Skarmory who gets easy set-up against a lot of Pokemon on your team already. I personally love the 140-odd Spd EVs set for slower SDef Heatran and practically every Politoed out there, but as you said you want to keep as much bulk as possible to make Pursuit Ttar more handleable, so I think something like the standard 44 / 48 / 52 Spd EVs would be a decent change. This also means you are outspeeding most Tyranitar outside of Choice Scarf, which still isn't particularly common anyway, and just cripple them with Will-o-Wisp. This generally looks like it will help against opposing stall too, considering your lack of Toxic Spikes on Roserade makes Stall vs Stall battles (particularly where your opp has Skarmory) seem pretty tough.

Overall you look pretty weak to Venusaur and some of the other sun sweepers, but I guess you can play around it with clever switching between Hippowdon and your faster Pokemon. More-or-less a paper weakness.

I don't really have anything else to say. I've played this team a couple of times in the past and it is incredibly solid. DragMag is obviously a bit of an issue considering how much you need to rely on Jirachi and Forretress to revenge boosted dragons, but what stall team isn't DragMag weak? Mixed Dragons, too, can be annoying, but thats more of a fault that lies with the overall playstyle, not this specific team.

Cool team guys, gl.

Smith · May 27th, 2012, 7:30:08 PM

BKC forced me to rate this so here I am! Firstly, like most teams that use Jellicent as the bulky water, you have some spdef heatran troubles, especially ones with toxic since nothing on this team enjoys toxic or lava plume. Gliscor can set up on Heatran but oddly enough, can't switch in at risk of being burned. Taunt Gyarados also seems like it could be tricky- Volt Switch isn't quite strong enough to drop him even after SR, and with Taunt + DD he can muscle through your team with relative ease. Also, and this is pretty picky I'll admit, you don't really have a way of dealing with Sableye short of setting up a sub on him with Gliscor and hoping Wow misses.

First of all, you might consider Scald on Jellicent over Shadow Ball. Taunt + Shadow ball helps you beat cm reuniclus, but Jirachi already does that, as well as Mew, who I'll address in a minute. With Scald, you prevent Gyara from setting up on you at his leisure, and give yourself a shot at beating spdef heatran one-on-one thanks to Taunt. I'd also run tspikes on Roserade over hp fire- you don't have to set them up every game, but this gives you a way of dealing with common stallbreakers, such as Mew, Sableye, or even deoxys-d, and also weakens spinners like starmie so they get less opportunities to spin. I don't see the point in HP Fire anyway, since Scizor is more than covered by this team. That's really all I can suggest, this is a fine team and all BKC does is brag about it and you as a tutee! gl

Nubagator · May 27th, 2012, 7:58:41 PM

I was very surprised to see the title, and then realize BKC was not the poster. This team is obviously pretty damn solid, but I've got a few small changes I'd like to suggest. At the moment you guys have a pretty large volc weakness, the easiest patch to this I can see without switching up large amounts of the team is to give Jelli Toxic over Willo. Minimal change but I think it's one worth making. you'll lose the ability to burn troublesome stuff like Tentacruel if you make this change, so you may want to switch scald back over Shadow ball. Aside from that CM latias looks like a real pain, but I'm sure you can play around it, and it's BW so it's pretty damn hard to check everything. Really nice team guys!

MikeDecIsHere · May 27th, 2012, 8:56:18 PM

Princess Bri is a guy

Echoing PenguinX's EV spread change, but really solid team. Kudos

CrackinSkulls · May 28th, 2012, 3:08:18 AM

Just a small suggestion, i have been using roserade and i think you should change her speed ev's to 60 so you can outspeed max speed adamant scizor and run Life Orb because rest means you can heal off any damage and score the OHKO on Scizor with hidden power. It makes a great counter to Volt-Switch.

~~bubbly~~ · May 28th, 2012, 5:51:16 AM

Standard awesome Hippo stall build. I've used a pretty similar team to this before, Hippo / Tenta / Skarm / Jirachi / Tangrowth / Stoutland iirc (okay so not that similar). You do look kind of Reuniclus and SB Mew weak but Mew in particular is almost impossible to reliably beat on these kinds of teams without running SpDef Tran. The only thing I can say is that it could be worthwhile to focus more on paralysis, since the team is dirt slow generally, and obviously it helps Gliscor hax its way to victory. I'd honestly just run SpDef Jirachi with a bit of an investment in attack to beat CM Reun more reliably, and maybe even Stun Spore > Sleep Powder on Roserade. You don't break VoltTurn so easily but it stops you being setup fodder for absolutely everything once Sleep Clause is activated.

Hope this helps. Again, really cool team, well done Funk and BKC :)

IWonderWhy · May 28th, 2012, 10:51:18 AM

Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Roserade are all weak to ice moves. Almost ever team has a pokemon with ice (obviously). You might want to watch out for that.

Funkasaurus · May 28th, 2012, 8:39:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PenguinX

You can pretty much tell BKC was involved in making this team purely from the random, unspecific EV spreads haha.

I'd really like to see you go back to a faster variant of Jellicent, purely because with such a slow spread you aren't outspeeding Skarmory who gets easy set-up against a lot of Pokemon on your team already. I personally love the 140-odd Spd EVs set for slower SDef Heatran and practically every Politoed out there, but as you said you want to keep as much bulk as possible to make Pursuit Ttar more handleable, so I think something like the standard 44 / 48 / 52 Spd EVs would be a decent change. This also means you are outspeeding most Tyranitar outside of Choice Scarf, which still isn't particularly common anyway, and just cripple them with Will-o-Wisp. This generally looks like it will help against opposing stall too, considering your lack of Toxic Spikes on Roserade makes Stall vs Stall battles (particularly where your opp has Skarmory) seem pretty tough.

Overall you look pretty weak to Venusaur and some of the other sun sweepers, but I guess you can play around it with clever switching between Hippowdon and your faster Pokemon. More-or-less a paper weakness.

I don't really have anything else to say. I've played this team a couple of times in the past and it is incredibly solid. DragMag is obviously a bit of an issue considering how much you need to rely on Jirachi and Forretress to revenge boosted dragons, but what stall team isn't DragMag weak? Mixed Dragons, too, can be annoying, but thats more of a fault that lies with the overall playstyle, not this specific team.

Cool team guys, gl.

Thanks for the rate. A little speed investment would help against opposing stall teams. (I actually have a version of the team with 124 EVs in Speed, specifically, for rain stall.) As you said, Venusaur is a threat when the sun is up, so I would have to get sand up, then go to Gliscor / Jirachi to kill it / force it out. However, I find Volcarona to be a bigger threat as it can do massive damage with +1 and it sets up on half of my team. And DragMag is kinda annoying to face, as I have to predict Magnezone coming in and deal with that. However, I don't see those teams very often, so I guess that's a good thing. Thanks again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Smith

BKC forced me to rate this so here I am! Firstly, like most teams that use Jellicent as the bulky water, you have some spdef heatran troubles, especially ones with toxic since nothing on this team enjoys toxic or lava plume. Gliscor can set up on Heatran but oddly enough, can't switch in at risk of being burned. Taunt Gyarados also seems like it could be tricky- Volt Switch isn't quite strong enough to drop him even after SR, and with Taunt + DD he can muscle through your team with relative ease. Also, and this is pretty picky I'll admit, you don't really have a way of dealing with Sableye short of setting up a sub on him with Gliscor and hoping Wow misses.

First of all, you might consider Scald on Jellicent over Shadow Ball. Taunt + Shadow ball helps you beat cm reuniclus, but Jirachi already does that, as well as Mew, who I'll address in a minute. With Scald, you prevent Gyara from setting up on you at his leisure, and give yourself a shot at beating spdef heatran one-on-one thanks to Taunt. I'd also run tspikes on Roserade over hp fire- you don't have to set them up every game, but this gives you a way of dealing with common stallbreakers, such as Mew, Sableye, or even deoxys-d, and also weakens spinners like starmie so they get less opportunities to spin. I don't see the point in HP Fire anyway, since Scizor is more than covered by this team. That's really all I can suggest, this is a fine team and all BKC does is brag about it and you as a tutee! gl

Thanks for the rate. In a previous version of the team, I ran Scald > Shadow Ball. However, relying on burn hax really didn't help me in the long run. But I will retest it. Although Toxic Spikes can help against things like Mew or Sableye, HP Fire is necessary in finishing off a weakened Skarmory or a Ferrothorn. I will try your changes. Thanks again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Nubagator

I was very surprised to see the title, and then realize BKC was not the poster. This team is obviously pretty damn solid, but I've got a few small changes I'd like to suggest. At the moment you guys have a pretty large volc weakness, the easiest patch to this I can see without switching up large amounts of the team is to give Jelli Toxic over Willo. Minimal change but I think it's one worth making. you'll lose the ability to burn troublesome stuff like Tentacruel if you make this change, so you may want to switch scald back over Shadow ball. Aside from that CM latias looks like a real pain, but I'm sure you can play around it, and it's BW so it's pretty damn hard to check everything. Really nice team guys!

Scald + Toxic would be a great way to help against Volcarona. As you said, Tentacruel would have an easy time against me. On top of that, I'd need to rely on Scald's 30% burn rate (which I never get when I need it) to burn Tyranitar, which easily can trap Jellicent. And indeed, CM Latias is a REAL pain to face. Pretty much, I have to keep Jirachi's scarf and just flinch it to death. I'll try your changes. Thanks for the rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MikeDecIsHere

Princess Bri is a guy

Echoing PenguinX's EV spread change, but really solid team. Kudos

I lol'd. I blame BKC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat CrackinSkulls

Just a small suggestion, i have been using roserade and i think you should change her speed ev's to 60 so you can outspeed max speed adamant scizor and run Life Orb because rest means you can heal off any damage and score the OHKO on Scizor with hidden power. It makes a great counter to Volt-Switch.

Although, I've never seen a fast Adamant Scizor. I'll give your suggestion a shot. Thanks for the rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bubbly

Standard awesome Hippo stall build. I've used a pretty similar team to this before, Hippo / Tenta / Skarm / Jirachi / Tangrowth / Stoutland iirc (okay so not that similar). You do look kind of Reuniclus and SB Mew weak but Mew in particular is almost impossible to reliably beat on these kinds of teams without running SpDef Tran. The only thing I can say is that it could be worthwhile to focus more on paralysis, since the team is dirt slow generally, and obviously it helps Gliscor hax its way to victory. I'd honestly just run SpDef Jirachi with a bit of an investment in attack to beat CM Reun more reliably, and maybe even Stun Spore > Sleep Powder on Roserade. You don't break VoltTurn so easily but it stops you being setup fodder for absolutely everything once Sleep Clause is activated.

Hope this helps. Again, really cool team, well done Funk and BKC :)

Thanks for the rate. Focusing on paralysis could help lead to Gliscor sweeping. An interesting idea, indeed. Stun Spore is an interesting move to put on Roserade as if it can catch the opponent by surprise. I'd agree with your Jirachi recommendation, however, if I were to make it Special Defensive, I'd lose my revenge killer. Which, without Choice Scarf, can lead to threats like Expert Belt Landorus coming in and wreaking havoc. But I will try your changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat IWonderWhy

Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Roserade are all weak to ice moves. Almost ever team has a pokemon with ice (obviously). You might want to watch out for that.

Jellicent and Jirachi? Hello?

Sunflora · May 29th, 2012, 5:23:38 AM

Hi BKC .. i think your team is so good but i would can change Forretress with Skarmory. This is becouse you can stop however a dragon Type and with it can use spikes with more serenity. Why this ? .. Easy, if you can use a "shed shell", so can "abuse'' it becouse have a pretty good core how Hippodown. Anyway this is :

Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Brave Bird

Now i thinking that you could change for Hippodown a Roar > Ice Fang .. What do you think ?

Grimm70 · May 29th, 2012, 6:10:40 AM

fveiavbgirhbghbtrehtbitehitbjtbibvgirjr. What the hell is that? I am going to bring the best change for the team. Get ready !

188 Evs in speed for Gliscor !

How didn't you think about it? You said you wanted to reach 297 to outspeed X and X and you didn't remerber about the many dangerous ones with 299? OMG, this is a great fail :d

You are extremly weak to sun and Gliscor is your only chance since Jellicent has not Toxic and Hippowdon is not a phazer. Then it means a Big Volcarona weaknesses. This + Venusaur and Heatran and you can't win.

With those fucking 12 Evs Gliscor is now able to outspeed Volcarona modest full speed which is extremly important. You are now also able to outspeed offensive Ninetailes !

The hugest problem seems to be Heatran. And not only one version. I'm forced to think about my RMT version with taunt and Magma Storm. When you said Hippoddon is kinda better than Tyranitar in this role, it's not totally true. Jellicent can't hit Heatran, Jirachi too, Roserade too, Foretress too, you can't switch on Gliscor and Hippowdon will notice that Heatran is not a Friend with magma storm and ballon... Then and if Gliscor has not those 12 more Evs in speed, you definitly have lost whereas now with this investment if your opponent think about a toxic orb version, you can sub on the switch and fuck an entire standard Sun team.

Congrats for your Smogon Tour, for your team and congrats BKC who probably take of his time with you :)
GG guys.

Lavos Spawn · May 29th, 2012, 2:51:41 PM

okay so um, dice gave me this team a while back telling me it was his etc. and I used it and it was good but that's not the point, why the hell did dice have the team and is it his or not? .-.

i feel like he stole it but not sure

Dk Law · May 29th, 2012, 3:10:57 PM

The ev spread on a few pokes are bizzare, but you explained them really well.

One thing I would use with combo of Sand Veil is paralyzing some opponent pokes. Not sure how you feel about it but I would replace Sleep Powder with Stun Spore on Roserade. I should warn you that it does make your opponents rage more so if you don't want that, then you can forget it, just a suggestion.

Cool semi stall sand team you have and grats on the success.

Edit: 69th post, giggity.

Funkasaurus · May 29th, 2012, 6:49:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sunflora

Hi BKC .. i think your team is so good but i would can change Forretress with Skarmory. This is becouse you can stop however a dragon Type and with it can use spikes with more serenity. Why this ? .. Easy, if you can use a "shed shell", so can "abuse'' it becouse have a pretty good core how Hippodown. Anyway this is :

Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Brave Bird

Now i thinking that you could change for Hippodown a Roar > Ice Fang .. What do you think ?

(And Funkasaurus). Replace Skarm > Forre would be interesting as it would help phaze out threats. However, without Forretress, I lack a spinner. And with no spinner, Gliscor cannot set up 4 Substitutes. Thanks for the rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Grimm70

fveiavbgirhbghbtrehtbitehitbjtbibvgirjr. What the hell is that? I am going to bring the best change for the team. Get ready !

188 Evs in speed for Gliscor !

How didn't you think about it? You said you wanted to reach 297 to outspeed X and X and you didn't remerber about the many dangerous ones with 299? OMG, this is a great fail :d

You are extremly weak to sun and Gliscor is your only chance since Jellicent has not Toxic and Hippowdon is not a phazer. Then it means a Big Volcarona weaknesses. This + Venusaur and Heatran and you can't win.

With those fucking 12 Evs Gliscor is now able to outspeed Volcarona modest full speed which is extremly important. You are now also able to outspeed offensive Ninetailes !

The hugest problem seems to be Heatran. And not only one version. I'm forced to think about my RMT version with taunt and Magma Storm. When you said Hippoddon is kinda better than Tyranitar in this role, it's not totally true. Jellicent can't hit Heatran, Jirachi too, Roserade too, Foretress too, you can't switch on Gliscor and Hippowdon will notice that Heatran is not a Friend with magma storm and ballon... Then and if Gliscor has not those 12 more Evs in speed, you definitly have lost whereas now with this investment if your opponent think about a toxic orb version, you can sub on the switch and fuck an entire standard Sun team.

Congrats for your Smogon Tour, for your team and congrats BKC who probably take of his time with you :)
GG guys.

Thanks for the rate. I will test out those extra 12 EVs in Speed. Tbh, most Heatran don't really pose a HUGE threat. But a minor one at best. Hippowdon takes hits better than one thinks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lavos Spawn

okay so um, dice gave me this team a while back telling me it was his etc. and I used it and it was good but that's not the point, why the hell did dice have the team and is it his or not? .-.

i feel like he stole it but not sure

I blame BKC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Dk Law

The ev spread on a few pokes are bizzare, but you explained them really well.

One thing I would use with combo of Sand Veil is paralyzing some opponent pokes. Not sure how you feel about it but I would replace Sleep Powder with Stun Spore on Roserade. I should warn you that it does make your opponents rage more so if you don't want that, then you can forget it, just a suggestion.

Cool semi stall sand team you have and grats on the success.

Edit: 69th post, giggity.

Thanks for the rate. Making my opponent "rage" isn't an issue. lol However, I will test Stun Spore.

BKC · Jun 1st, 2012, 9:20:11 AM

I do believe we are entitled to a bump.

I let Bri use the team awhile ago but it's not his/hers/its.

I like the idea of Stun Spore on Roserade. Maybe a dual status one would work well to para stuff on the switch after something's been slept. idk if it's worth losing hp fire or rest. I'll test.

Thanks for the rates and luvdiscs.

heinz25 · Jun 1st, 2012, 9:48:38 AM

As stated by someone earlier. Seems as tho a Venusaur backed by sunlight would pose a big threat to your team. Heck even a Victreebel backed by sun which has

- Growth/sleep powder
- Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]

would pretty much destroy your team.

DaveScottMustaine · Jun 1st, 2012, 10:12:05 AM

If Jellicent is dead, how tou deal with strongs Fire-Type moves? I mean, you lost the weather war against a Sun team and Jellicent is KO, you're out dude, isn't it? Venusaur under sun rays can rape you.

Mylo Xyloto · Jun 1st, 2012, 10:33:29 AM

Did not read everything but maybe this was mentioned so Fire Punch > Trick as your Jirachi is walled by steel types. Great team btw :)

BKC · Jun 1st, 2012, 10:34:07 AM

If we lose the weather war against a sun team, of course we lose to sun lol. The thing is, Hippowdon is an absolute monster, and keeps sand up easily; unlike Tyranitar, he isn't instantly ended by Dugtrio. With SR up, and Jellicent to block spin, Ninetales' longevity is extremely limited. Hippowdon also doesn't mind taking a burn if it means slashing off a high amount of Ninetales' health with Earthquake, which will still do a nice chunk even with the attack drop. Whenever Hippo gets low on health, he can instantly get 50% of his health back. If sun isn't active, Gliscor can easily revenge-kill Venusaur / Victreebel with Acrobatics.

All of Jirachi's moves have been really crucial, but Fire Punch is worth testing. I can remember wishing I had it against a few Lucarios. Thanks for the rate.

Mylo Xyloto · Jun 1st, 2012, 10:40:34 AM

Fire Punch also has that nice BURN chance :p

DestinyUnknown · Jun 1st, 2012, 10:50:25 AM

Your team looks very weak to Dragon Dance Gyarados, as it can easily set up on Jellicent, Jirachi, Hippowdon (and even Roserade if Sleep Clause is active) and the only way I see you can deal with it is Forretress's Volt Switch (something a bit unreliable imo), especially if Gyarados manages to get it while Rain is up as it gets leftovers recovery each turn (and can 2HKO Forretress at +1 too). I'm not sure about how you have been playing around Gyarados, but I think you might give ThunderPunch on Jirachi a try, preferably over U-turn (tbh, I don't find myself using U-turn on Scarf Jirachi, but maybe it's just me)

Congratulations both BKC and Funkasaurus on making this great team :)

Princess Bri · Jun 2nd, 2012, 2:33:45 AM

I got 1600 with this team so it's obviously good. I prefer leaf storm on roserade with 44 SpA and Modest to OHKO Landorus and Terrakion in sand but thats just preference. I also ran Stone Edge Hippowdon to hit Volcarona and Gyarados and a faster Jellicent because I like it more. I also ran non bkcified ev's but thats besides the point. Grats

Marshall.Law · Jun 2nd, 2012, 2:59:14 AM

I know this team and it's very good.
I think you should play Gliscor with max spe to exceed for example pokemons with 299 spe or a little more (even if they are rare), speed tie with these others king of gliscor,...
As Princess Bri said it, my change would be to put leaf storm on Roserade.
I see that Venusaur and Volcarona, sun generally is really a pain for your team. How do you do against it ?
Congrats both, good job !

Funkasaurus · Jun 3rd, 2012, 7:19:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DestinyUnknown

Your team looks very weak to Dragon Dance Gyarados, as it can easily set up on Jellicent, Jirachi, Hippowdon (and even Roserade if Sleep Clause is active) and the only way I see you can deal with it is Forretress's Volt Switch (something a bit unreliable imo), especially if Gyarados manages to get it while Rain is up as it gets leftovers recovery each turn (and can 2HKO Forretress at +1 too). I'm not sure about how you have been playing around Gyarados, but I think you might give ThunderPunch on Jirachi a try, preferably over U-turn (tbh, I don't find myself using U-turn on Scarf Jirachi, but maybe it's just me)

Congratulations both BKC and Funkasaurus on making this great team :)

Thanks for the rate. Dragon Dance Gyarados isn't the worst thing in the world for the team, but it is an issue. Typically, they would come in on Forretress expecting a free set up. I'd Volt Switch do about 30-40% (unless it subs), then go to Jirachi and Trick it the Choice Scarf and go to the appropriate counter for the move it locks itself into. (Typically Waterfall.) But Thunder Punch could make that process easier and would let Jirachi keep its Choice Scarf. I'll try it. Thanks, again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Princess Bri

I got 1600 with this team so it's obviously good. I prefer leaf storm on roserade with 44 SpA and Modest to OHKO Landorus and Terrakion in sand but thats just preference. I also ran Stone Edge Hippowdon to hit Volcarona and Gyarados and a faster Jellicent because I like it more. I also ran non bkcified ev's but thats besides the point. Grats

Thanks for the rate. When the team originally ran Leaf Storm on Roserade, it worked well. However, the small amount of PP and Special Attack drop seemed inefficient, as it can leave Roserade as set up fodder. Typically, the only way a Landorus or Terrakion are going to take a Leaf Storm is if they switch into it, as Roserade cannot take a EQ from Landorus in the sand or a take a Stone Edge from Terrakion well. Stone Edge on Hippowdon could help against the threats you mentioned. However, I feel that Ice Fang is too costly to give up, as it helps deal with dragons like Salamence and Dragonite. I will test your changes. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Marshall.Law

I know this team and it's very good.
I think you should play Gliscor with max spe to exceed for example pokemons with 299 spe or a little more (even if they are rare), speed tie with these others king of gliscor,...
As Princess Bri said it, my change would be to put leaf storm on Roserade.
I see that Venusaur and Volcarona, sun generally is really a pain for your team. How do you do against it ?
Congrats both, good job !

Thanks for the rate. Yeah, sun is a bit of an issue. Dealing with it involves switching in Hippowdon often so Chlorophyll users like Venusaur don't receive their speed boost, then using Gliscor to use Acrobatics on something. Volcarona is probably the biggest threat to the team if Stealth Rock isn't up. Pretty much, Gliscor and Hippowdon are the best means of taking it out. As they can both take a +1 Fiery Dance / Flamethrower. Then attack back with an Earthquake or Acrobatics.

May 27th, 2012, 6:42:11 PM	#1
Funkasaurus Doubts will try to break you Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 396	The Great Southern Trendkill Hello Smogon, my name is Funkasaurus, presenting a joint RMT of a team I made with my tutor, BKC. I've had a good amount of success with this team, peaking 7th on the ladder with 1561 points. I also used this team to reach semi-finals of No Johns II, where I lost in an extremely close game against K-12 The Madchine. Lastly, I used this team to win the last BW OU tour of season thirteen. On both the ladder and in the tournaments, I defeated some top players, proving that this team can hang with the best. BKC's used the team as well, reaching 6th on the ladder with 1568 points. This team has spread around the ladder a fair bit; someone recently asked me if I was using "Princess Bri's team", since she used the team after BKC lent it to her. That pretty much spurred us to make this RMT, since the team has pretty much peaked in effectiveness and I can't stand the thought of it being known as someone else's, so it's time to showcase it and get advice for fixing some of its weaknesses. Enjoy. Team Building The basis of this whole team, Gliscor. Not only an amazing defensive wall, but an amazing offensive sweeper as well. Here we decided to run a faster Sand Veil Acrobatics variant for sweeping late game. Being as Gliscor will have Sand Veil, Sandstorm support would benefit the team greatly. So we had to make a decision, Hippowdon or Tyranitar? And that question would help determine the offensive nature of the team. Plus this Pokemon will most likely be the one to set up Stealth Rock. Hippowdon was chosen because of it's excellent defenses and "immunity" to Dugtrio. Since Hippowdon and Gliscor dislike Water type moves, a Grass type was needed to absorb them. Roserade seemed like a good choice because of its good offensive and special defensive prowess. On top of that, it helps absorb Toxic Spikes and gets Sleep Powder, which would be very beneficial for the team. To assist Gliscor's sweeping, a spinner was needed so it would be able to take more hits and set up more Substitutes. Hitmontop was chosen because of good defenses and its Intimidate ability. We decided to scrap the idea of Hitmontop due our team's current weakness to Ice type moves. For this position, we had a choice. Tentacruel, Starmie, or Forretress. Forretress seemed to be the best fit for its ability to set up layers of Spikes as well as Volt Switch to help gain offensive momentum. BKC had wanted to try a custom Breloom set with Protect, Leech Seed, Drain Punch, and Substitute. It seemed pretty cool so we gave it a shot. At this point, the team would need assistance from a Pokemon that could deal with Rain, Stall, and Water types, in general. Jellicent fit the bill perfectly. Not only that, it helps serve as a spinblocker. We're almost done! We just needed a Pokemon to serve as a revenge killer. Not only that, but another Steel type. A Choice Scarf'd Jirachi, an excellent candidate for the job of revenge killer. This variation helped achieve a point total within the 1300s. Not too bad. However, it seemed as if this team needed something to help it go over the top. The final version of the team with Roserade > Breloom. Breloom just wasn't cutting it. Physically defensive walls were becoming a problem. So here's Roserade making her return to the team. Roserade was just what team needed to put it over the top, helping the team peak 1561 points and 7th rank for me and 1568 and 6th rank for BKC. Hippowdon -- Underground In America Sand Stream \| Careful \| Leftovers 252 HP \| 16 Def \| 240 SDef Stealth Rock \| Slack Off \| Earthquake \| Ice Fang Most people opt for Tyranitar as their Sandstreamer and Stealth Rocker, but in my opinion, that's a waste of Tyranitar's potential. That, and Hippowdon is just so much better. He is bulky as all hell, and has recovery, which lets him stick around a very long time -- excellent for winning weather wars. Hippo is also not Dugtrio prone, making him much more effective against Drought teams than Tyranitar. Special Defense EVs seem like a waste on a 'mon with such great physical Defense, but they work, since Hippo's high HP balances out his rather poor SpD. With this EV spread, he's able to check SubSplit Gengar rather reliably, and he cannot be OHKO'd by Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor. Everyone's favorite SpD MixTar can barely scratch it with super-effective Ice Beams. However, Hippo is no slacker on the physical side, either; he's able to avoid a 2HKO from Landorus's Earthquake, while Expert Belt-boosted Hidden Power Ice can't 2HKO either, thanks to the SpD investment. Forretress -- 13 Steps to Nowhere Sturdy \| Bold \| Leftovers 240 HP \| 216 Def \| 52 SAtk Spikes \| Rapid Spin \| Volt Switch \| Hidden Power Ice This set was recently featured in the twentieth edition of The Smog, but it's has been around for a long time, and it's very effective. Just like 99.99% of teams, this team needed a rapid spinner. Forretress, unlike most rapid spinners, has access to Spikes, which is perfect for this team. On top of that, Forretress has an excellent Defense stat. Volt Switch and Hidden Power Ice help give Forre a "BoltBeam" attacking combination. Volt Switch helps gain offensive momentum and escaping Magnezone's Magnet trapping abilities. And Hidden Power Ice helps against Dragon types, like Salamence and Dragonite, and Ground types like Gliscor and Landorus. The investment of 52 special attack EVs help Forretress do some "serious damage." No, not really. It helps score 2HKOs on the aforementioned Landorus and Gliscor with Hidden Power Ice. Not only that, it takes a nice chunk out of Gyarados with Volt Switch. Forretress is a great utility mon who has shown surprising offensive capabilities, so BKC and I refer to this guy as "THE BIG SWEEPER." Jellicent -- Floods Cursed Body \| Bold \| Leftovers 248 HP \| 252 Def \| 8 SDef Shadow Ball \| Taunt \| Will-o-Wisp \| Recover This is the premier spin-blocker of BW OU. There are other Ghost-types, of course, but none are as solid as Jellicent at preserving hazards. Gengar is fast and strong, but too frail and is 2HKO'd by pretty much every spinner. Dusclops has a ton of bulk, but it has no recovery and is set-up fodder. Jellicent isn't exactly an offensive force, and it isn't quite as bulky as Dusclops, but it has instant recovery and is a lot harder to set-up on, thanks to Taunt, which also makes a fine stallbreaker in conjunction with Will-o-Wisp. Shadow Ball is used over Scald to actually do something back to Starmie, who Jelli is used to spin-block against. It also helps against stallbreaker Mew. Cursed Body is used over Water Absorb because disabling an opponent's move while Recover stalling has been a life-saver many times. While we initially ran a lot of Speed EVs, we eventually shifted over to max Defense so Tyranitar has a harder time trapping. Roserade -- 10's Natural Cure \| Modest \| Black Sludge 208 HP \| 124 Def \| 60 SAtk \| 116 SDef Sleep Powder \| Giga Drain \| Hidden Power Fire \| Rest A defensive sandstorm team needs a reliable switch to Rotom-W, preferably one who can also handle its omnipresent partner, Scizor. Roserade performs this task admirably. Burns are shrugged off by Natural Cure, Volt Switch/Hydro Pump barely scratch it, and HP Fire/Ice don't do too much either, thanks to Rossy's high Special Defense. Not to mention, Rossy absorbs Toxic Spikes, which helps Hippowdon and Jellicent's survivability. Thanks to the defense investment, Scizor's Bullet Punch will not KO and HP Fire will often OHKO after Stealth Rock. Most defensive Roserade run a Spiking set of some sort, but since we already had Forretress for Spikes, and T-Spikes aren't always that effective, we figured sticking with this set would be beneficial, and it has yet to let us down. Rest is great recovery since Natural Cure will remove the sleep condition upon switching out. We've used Leaf Storm over Giga Drain for extra power before, but the low PP was off-putting in longer battles. Jirachi -- War Nerve Serene Grace \| Adamant \| Choice Scarf 16 HP \| 216 Atk \| 36 SDef \| 240 Spe U-turn \| Iron Head \| Ice Punch \| Trick We needed a second Steel-type, and we needed some speed, as our team was slow as dirt. Enter Jirachi, whose revenge-killing capabilities are top-notch. We're running Adamant as the nature because Jirachi's Attack stat leaves something to be desired, and since even with a Jolly nature we can't outspeed Scarf Landorus / Terrakion, Adamant is the way to go. We dropped the Speed EVs low enough to beat Scarf Hydreigon / Haxorus, then added a bit of bulk since this is our main switch to Latios. U-turn is great for gaining switch advantage, and it's excellent at warding off Celebi. Iron Head is Jirachi's signature move that causes ragequits galore. Ice Punch is used because this is our check to Dragon Dance Dragons, such as Dragonite and Haxorus. It also destroys Expert Belt Landorus and opposing AcroBats. Gliscor -- Sandblasted Skin Sand Veil \| Jolly \| Flying Gem 16 HP \| 252 Atk \| 64 Def \| 176 Spe Substitute \| Swords Dance \| Earthquake \| Acrobatics Ah, the star of the show. The very thing this team was built around. The reason for the team's very existence. With a Jolly nature and 176 speed EVs, Gliscor can outspeed Pokemon such as Modest Hydreigon and Adamant Haxorus, reaching a 297 speed stat. Acrobatics does indeed OHKO common Grass-type threats such as Nasty Plot Celebi, Venusaur, and Breloom without any attack boosts. The biggest threat to this set is, of course, Skarmory; great bulk lets it shrug off even Swords Danced attacks and it can either Whirlwind to get rid of the boost[s] and rack up damage from the Spikes it lays, or simply chip away at Gliscor's health with Brave Bird, Roosting to recover health when necessary. However, Skarm is taken care of by Forretress, Roserade, and Jellicent; even Jirachi can Trick a Scarf onto it in a pinch, so it's sufficient to say that the rest of the team handles the metal bird well. Sand Veil is a valuable ability to Gliscor as Garchomp-esque miss-fishing can be greatly helpful in pulling off a sweep. For those of you who played during the Garchomp era, you will notice the similarities between Chomp's trademark SubSD set and this Gliscor; their playstyle is very similar. Early game, fire off attacks to check threats or weaken counters; late-game, set up and cleave through weakened teams. Conclusion I've enjoyed using this team. Since making it, it's been my "go to" team. So I figured it's best to retire it after it's helped me achieve so much. Please post if you have any suggestions on how to better this team. Thanks for reading. __________________ Last edited by Funkasaurus; Mar 24th, 2013 at 12:22:23 PM.

May 27th, 2012, 6:43:43 PM	#2
BKC bringer of torture Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,235 Prague	export Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SDef Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - Slack Off - Ice Fang Forretress (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SAtk Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Spikes - Rapid Spin - Volt Switch - Hidden Power [Ice] Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Cursed Body EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Shadow Ball - Taunt - Will-O-Wisp - Recover Roserade (F) @ Black Sludge Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 240 HP / 132 Def / 20 SAtk / 116 SDef Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Sleep Powder - Giga Drain - Hidden Power [Fire] - Rest Jirachi @ Choice Scarf Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 12 SDef / 240 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - U-turn - Iron Head - Ice Punch - Trick Gliscor (M) @ Flying Gem Trait: Sand Veil EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Def / 176 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Substitute - Swords Dance - Earthquake - Acrobatics Last edited by BKC; Jul 9th, 2012 at 3:32:35 PM.

May 27th, 2012, 7:14:32 PM	#3
PenguinX slow loris ˁ(⦿ᴥ⦿)ˀ Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 419	You can pretty much tell BKC was involved in making this team purely from the random, unspecific EV spreads haha. I'd really like to see you go back to a faster variant of Jellicent, purely because with such a slow spread you aren't outspeeding Skarmory who gets easy set-up against a lot of Pokemon on your team already. I personally love the 140-odd Spd EVs set for slower SDef Heatran and practically every Politoed out there, but as you said you want to keep as much bulk as possible to make Pursuit Ttar more handleable, so I think something like the standard 44 / 48 / 52 Spd EVs would be a decent change. This also means you are outspeeding most Tyranitar outside of Choice Scarf, which still isn't particularly common anyway, and just cripple them with Will-o-Wisp. This generally looks like it will help against opposing stall too, considering your lack of Toxic Spikes on Roserade makes Stall vs Stall battles (particularly where your opp has Skarmory) seem pretty tough. Overall you look pretty weak to Venusaur and some of the other sun sweepers, but I guess you can play around it with clever switching between Hippowdon and your faster Pokemon. More-or-less a paper weakness. I don't really have anything else to say. I've played this team a couple of times in the past and it is incredibly solid. DragMag is obviously a bit of an issue considering how much you need to rely on Jirachi and Forretress to revenge boosted dragons, but what stall team isn't DragMag weak? Mixed Dragons, too, can be annoying, but thats more of a fault that lies with the overall playstyle, not this specific team. Cool team guys, gl. __________________ http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc...ho5ko1_400.gif

May 27th, 2012, 7:30:08 PM	#4
Smith ☆:.｡. o(≧▽≦)o .｡.:☆ Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,344 Denton, Texas, USA	BKC forced me to rate this so here I am! Firstly, like most teams that use Jellicent as the bulky water, you have some spdef heatran troubles, especially ones with toxic since nothing on this team enjoys toxic or lava plume. Gliscor can set up on Heatran but oddly enough, can't switch in at risk of being burned. Taunt Gyarados also seems like it could be tricky- Volt Switch isn't quite strong enough to drop him even after SR, and with Taunt + DD he can muscle through your team with relative ease. Also, and this is pretty picky I'll admit, you don't really have a way of dealing with Sableye short of setting up a sub on him with Gliscor and hoping Wow misses. First of all, you might consider Scald on Jellicent over Shadow Ball. Taunt + Shadow ball helps you beat cm reuniclus, but Jirachi already does that, as well as Mew, who I'll address in a minute. With Scald, you prevent Gyara from setting up on you at his leisure, and give yourself a shot at beating spdef heatran one-on-one thanks to Taunt. I'd also run tspikes on Roserade over hp fire- you don't have to set them up every game, but this gives you a way of dealing with common stallbreakers, such as Mew, Sableye, or even deoxys-d, and also weakens spinners like starmie so they get less opportunities to spin. I don't see the point in HP Fire anyway, since Scizor is more than covered by this team. That's really all I can suggest, this is a fine team and all BKC does is brag about it and you as a tutee! gl __________________ [20:44] <@DrFidget> Am I the only one who still uses the internet strictly for porn and videogames?

May 27th, 2012, 7:58:41 PM	#5
Nubagator Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 166 Far over the misty mountains cold	I was very surprised to see the title, and then realize BKC was not the poster. This team is obviously pretty damn solid, but I've got a few small changes I'd like to suggest. At the moment you guys have a pretty large volc weakness, the easiest patch to this I can see without switching up large amounts of the team is to give Jelli Toxic over Willo. Minimal change but I think it's one worth making. you'll lose the ability to burn troublesome stuff like Tentacruel if you make this change, so you may want to switch scald back over Shadow ball. Aside from that CM latias looks like a real pain, but I'm sure you can play around it, and it's BW so it's pretty damn hard to check everything. Really nice team guys! __________________ trollmonchan: my sister asked me to zip up her dress Ant of Ruin: troll is into incest Ant of Ruin: you would bang her right trollmonchan: ya

May 27th, 2012, 8:56:18 PM	#6
MikeDecIsHere Laying the Groundwork for the Pound Work Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,840 Staten Island Mentor	Princess Bri is a guy Echoing PenguinX's EV spread change, but really solid team. Kudos __________________

May 28th, 2012, 3:08:18 AM	#7
CrackinSkulls Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 208 Where the hax demons live	Just a small suggestion, i have been using roserade and i think you should change her speed ev's to 60 so you can outspeed max speed adamant scizor and run Life Orb because rest means you can heal off any damage and score the OHKO on Scizor with hidden power. It makes a great counter to Volt-Switch.

May 28th, 2012, 5:51:16 AM	#8
~~bubbly~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 884 Australia	Standard awesome Hippo stall build. I've used a pretty similar team to this before, Hippo / Tenta / Skarm / Jirachi / Tangrowth / Stoutland iirc (okay so not that similar). You do look kind of Reuniclus and SB Mew weak but Mew in particular is almost impossible to reliably beat on these kinds of teams without running SpDef Tran. The only thing I can say is that it could be worthwhile to focus more on paralysis, since the team is dirt slow generally, and obviously it helps Gliscor hax its way to victory. I'd honestly just run SpDef Jirachi with a bit of an investment in attack to beat CM Reun more reliably, and maybe even Stun Spore > Sleep Powder on Roserade. You don't break VoltTurn so easily but it stops you being setup fodder for absolutely everything once Sleep Clause is activated. Hope this helps. Again, really cool team, well done Funk and BKC :)

May 28th, 2012, 10:51:18 AM	#9
IWonderWhy Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1	Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Roserade are all weak to ice moves. Almost ever team has a pokemon with ice (obviously). You might want to watch out for that.

May 29th, 2012, 5:23:38 AM	#11
Sunflora Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 17 London	Hi BKC .. i think your team is so good but i would can change Forretress with Skarmory. This is becouse you can stop however a dragon Type and with it can use spikes with more serenity. Why this ? .. Easy, if you can use a "shed shell", so can "abuse'' it becouse have a pretty good core how Hippodown. Anyway this is : Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Spikes - Whirlwind - Roost - Brave Bird Now i thinking that you could change for Hippodown a Roar > Ice Fang .. What do you think ? __________________ Oh Yeah !

May 29th, 2012, 6:10:40 AM	#12
Grimm70 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 264 Near Paris	fveiavbgirhbghbtrehtbitehitbjtbibvgirjr. What the hell is that? I am going to bring the best change for the team. Get ready ! 188 Evs in speed for Gliscor ! How didn't you think about it? You said you wanted to reach 297 to outspeed X and X and you didn't remerber about the many dangerous ones with 299? OMG, this is a great fail :d You are extremly weak to sun and Gliscor is your only chance since Jellicent has not Toxic and Hippowdon is not a phazer. Then it means a Big Volcarona weaknesses. This + Venusaur and Heatran and you can't win. With those fucking 12 Evs Gliscor is now able to outspeed Volcarona modest full speed which is extremly important. You are now also able to outspeed offensive Ninetailes ! The hugest problem seems to be Heatran. And not only one version. I'm forced to think about my RMT version with taunt and Magma Storm. When you said Hippoddon is kinda better than Tyranitar in this role, it's not totally true. Jellicent can't hit Heatran, Jirachi too, Roserade too, Foretress too, you can't switch on Gliscor and Hippowdon will notice that Heatran is not a Friend with magma storm and ballon... Then and if Gliscor has not those 12 more Evs in speed, you definitly have lost whereas now with this investment if your opponent think about a toxic orb version, you can sub on the switch and fuck an entire standard Sun team. Congrats for your Smogon Tour, for your team and congrats BKC who probably take of his time with you :) GG guys.

May 29th, 2012, 2:51:41 PM	#13
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,188 Mentor	okay so um, dice gave me this team a while back telling me it was his etc. and I used it and it was good but that's not the point, why the hell did dice have the team and is it his or not? .-. i feel like he stole it but not sure

May 29th, 2012, 3:10:57 PM	#14
Dk Law Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 68 Queens, NY	The ev spread on a few pokes are bizzare, but you explained them really well. One thing I would use with combo of Sand Veil is paralyzing some opponent pokes. Not sure how you feel about it but I would replace Sleep Powder with Stun Spore on Roserade. I should warn you that it does make your opponents rage more so if you don't want that, then you can forget it, just a suggestion. Cool semi stall sand team you have and grats on the success. Edit: 69th post, giggity.

Jun 1st, 2012, 9:20:11 AM	#16
BKC bringer of torture Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,235 Prague	I do believe we are entitled to a bump. I let Bri use the team awhile ago but it's not his/hers/its. I like the idea of Stun Spore on Roserade. Maybe a dual status one would work well to para stuff on the switch after something's been slept. idk if it's worth losing hp fire or rest. I'll test. Thanks for the rates and luvdiscs.

Jun 1st, 2012, 9:48:38 AM	#17
heinz25 Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 40 Barbados	As stated by someone earlier. Seems as tho a Venusaur backed by sunlight would pose a big threat to your team. Heck even a Victreebel backed by sun which has - Growth/sleep powder - Giga Drain - Weather Ball - Hidden Power [Ice] would pretty much destroy your team. __________________ Smash brothers brawl is the best game ever made Pokemon Sprites. http://sprites.pokecheck.org/?gen=4& Pokemon Shadows. http://pldh.net/gallery/the493

Jun 1st, 2012, 10:12:05 AM	#18
DaveScottMustaine Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 65 Chile	If Jellicent is dead, how tou deal with strongs Fire-Type moves? I mean, you lost the weather war against a Sun team and Jellicent is KO, you're out dude, isn't it? Venusaur under sun rays can rape you. __________________ ~Long Live MEGADETH My teams: · Annoying Ex Girlfriend - OU BW2 · Beware of the Dragon v2.0 - Offensive OU BW2

Jun 1st, 2012, 10:33:29 AM	#19
Mylo Xyloto Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 423 RSA	Did not read everything but maybe this was mentioned so Fire Punch > Trick as your Jirachi is walled by steel types. Great team btw :) __________________ \| Like the ceiling can’t hold us \| ~

Jun 1st, 2012, 10:34:07 AM	#20
BKC bringer of torture Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,235 Prague	If we lose the weather war against a sun team, of course we lose to sun lol. The thing is, Hippowdon is an absolute monster, and keeps sand up easily; unlike Tyranitar, he isn't instantly ended by Dugtrio. With SR up, and Jellicent to block spin, Ninetales' longevity is extremely limited. Hippowdon also doesn't mind taking a burn if it means slashing off a high amount of Ninetales' health with Earthquake, which will still do a nice chunk even with the attack drop. Whenever Hippo gets low on health, he can instantly get 50% of his health back. If sun isn't active, Gliscor can easily revenge-kill Venusaur / Victreebel with Acrobatics. All of Jirachi's moves have been really crucial, but Fire Punch is worth testing. I can remember wishing I had it against a few Lucarios. Thanks for the rate.

Jun 1st, 2012, 10:40:34 AM	#21
Mylo Xyloto Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 423 RSA	Fire Punch also has that nice BURN chance :p __________________ \| Like the ceiling can’t hold us \| ~

Jun 1st, 2012, 10:50:25 AM	#22
DestinyUnknown Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,100 Spain	Your team looks very weak to Dragon Dance Gyarados, as it can easily set up on Jellicent, Jirachi, Hippowdon (and even Roserade if Sleep Clause is active) and the only way I see you can deal with it is Forretress's Volt Switch (something a bit unreliable imo), especially if Gyarados manages to get it while Rain is up as it gets leftovers recovery each turn (and can 2HKO Forretress at +1 too). I'm not sure about how you have been playing around Gyarados, but I think you might give ThunderPunch on Jirachi a try, preferably over U-turn (tbh, I don't find myself using U-turn on Scarf Jirachi, but maybe it's just me) Congratulations both BKC and Funkasaurus on making this great team :) __________________

Jun 2nd, 2012, 2:33:45 AM	#23
Princess Bri COME FORTH Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,073	I got 1600 with this team so it's obviously good. I prefer leaf storm on roserade with 44 SpA and Modest to OHKO Landorus and Terrakion in sand but thats just preference. I also ran Stone Edge Hippowdon to hit Volcarona and Gyarados and a faster Jellicent because I like it more. I also ran non bkcified ev's but thats besides the point. Grats

Jun 2nd, 2012, 2:59:14 AM	#24
Marshall.Law Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 326 We gotta power	I know this team and it's very good. I think you should play Gliscor with max spe to exceed for example pokemons with 299 spe or a little more (even if they are rare), speed tie with these others king of gliscor,... As Princess Bri said it, my change would be to put leaf storm on Roserade. I see that Venusaur and Volcarona, sun generally is really a pain for your team. How do you do against it ? Congrats both, good job !