Snover and Hippopotas

Nothing big or controversial this time.

I was looking through the tiering lists and noticed Snover is now classified as UU. This happened because a while back (like, before I was even involved), the UU Senate decided to ban Abomasnow and Snover on the UU ladder instead of Snow Warning. This was okay because, at the time, Soundproof wasn't released, so the result was the same and the ladder-implementation issues were mitigated. However, now that Soundproof is released, Antar and I decided to switch the ban to Snow Warning instead.

Snover's placement still strikes me as odd, however, because it was actually RU at the time of it's ban from UU.

So basically, the proposition is the following:

Seeing as how Snover is completely useless in UU and probably every tier below that too... could we just drop it to PU?

At the very least, let's let Snover drop down to RU (where it was banned from), so that it takes 3 months less for it to get down to PU/NU, where it could actually be somewhat useful.

In the end, this is more of a "lets make the tiers look nice" kind of thing, since it's unlikely it'll be used anywhere, so I don't see any negatives to this. So, under that premise, Hippopotas could be dropped down too, as no one is going to use it without Sand Stream.

I'd argue this should be considered for Hippopotas as well.

Edit: Also, when I finally got the Drought check working on PO back in March, I removed Vulpix from the UU banlist. However, I never added it to any other banlists, so it fell straight to PU. This was an accident, but it appears not to have had any unfortunate consequences.

Bottom line: you can consider the case of Vulpix to be "precedent" here.

I wouldn't have a problem with either. I highly doubt Scarf or Eviolite Snover will see any use without Snow Warning, and the only real reason to use Eviolite Hippopotas was for Sand Stream. Dropping them into RU first is a good idea too for the "just in case" factor.

Yeah, I meant to include Hippopotas in this too. I'll add it to the OP now.

kokoloko said:

Snover's placement still strikes me as odd, however, because it was actually RU at the time of it's ban from UU.

So basically, the proposition is the following:

Seeing as how Snover is completely useless in UU and probably every tier below that too... could we just drop it to PU?

At the very least, let's let Snover drop down to RU (where it was banned from), so that it takes 3 months less for it to get down to PU/NU, where it could actually be somewhat useful.

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I'm fairly sure Snover was actually NU at the time since I remember playing obnoxious hail spam teams back then, like this one (although I don't exactly remember if NU was considered an official tier pre-January). I don't think any harm would be done in dropping them all the way to NU/PU since they'll have very little impact on any of the tiers in general.

They should be in the NFE tier, which as far as I know defaults to PU until you're used enough to be promoted, like Metang/Munchlax/Ferroseed/Roselia etc. I think a complete reset would be the most fair option for these two mons.

jrrrrrrr said:

They should be in the NFE tier, which as far as I know defaults to PU until you're used enough to be promoted, like Metang/Munchlax/Ferroseed/Roselia etc. I think a complete reset would be the most fair option for these two mons.

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NFE is not a tier. Chansey is NFE but is UU. Muchlax is NFE but is RU.

It's one of my biggest pet peeves that we list pokemon as "NFE" on the site as if it's an actual tier.

Although I can understand a bit why we do it, as *I* did it in my own tier list (the idea was to filter out pokes like Bulbasaur, but really, I think it did more harm than good, since there's real gems on that list, like Zweilous and Duosion).

Can we make a decision on this before the 8th so we know which tier to write their analyses for over at C&C?

(We re-open reservations and stuff on the 8th)

Even if they're dropped into NU they won't get an analysis unless they're actually good enough to warrant one (as is what's happening to Metang in RU).

So that doesn't matter really.

I can agree with just throwing them into NU. I don't see them even mattering.

They should be assigned to LC, like Bulbasaur, Charmander, and other first-stage Pokemon that are not good enough to reach NU.

Great Sage said:

They should be assigned to LC, like Bulbasaur, Charmander, and other first-stage Pokemon that are not good enough to reach NU.

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I have done this for the Dex.

Antar if you could put Hippopotas and Snover into NU or w/e that'd be good.

It's done on PO, and I've made a pull request for PS.