Crazy Sunshine

[youtube]xzTRd3NoZ0A[/youtube]

Tobes making a sun team without Weather Trapper Heatran, shocker right? :0

So yeah I've never really gotten around to making an RMT before (the only candidate I had, my Specs Rotom-W + Tailwind Tornadus team [which was novel at the time I swear] from last year's WCOP that went 3-1, named "Velonica", became obsolete by the time I felt I could RMT it), but I've suddenly been struck by the mood, so why the hell not. Anyway, on to the team itself: This isn't an accomplished team or anything like that. It's simply a team I built and enjoy playing with, and I thought it was a bit of departure from the standard sun archetypes. So I felt like putting it on display since I don't really see myself using this too often in Tour or whatever, though I will probably continue to use it recreationally. It's not really a defensive team. It needs to be the team that keeps up momentum in order to win, so I try to avoid having to deal with any defensive issues by keeping myself on the offensive. I am open to suggestions; just know that I am aware of most of my offensive weakness and have figured out ways to deal with them.

Team at a Glance​

Ninetales @ Air Balloon
Drought
Calm 248/0/8/0/252/0
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar

I've used Roar Ninetales successfully for a while now. It's a great anti-sun measure and can rack up hazard damage quickly after Deoxys-D does its work. It also works as an emergency answer to Volcarona, especially if the Air Balloon is still intact. Air Balloon of course is useful for avoiding getting screwed by Dugtrio, and I even have the nice advantage of not having to risk Genesect's U-turn since Chandelure quad-resists it. Flamethrower is for consistency; with no Special Attack investment I'm only interested in making sure my attacks against Bug/Steel-types hit their mark. Similarly, Toxic and Will-O-Wisp cripple things that should be respectively obvious. I'd like to fit in something to break Heatran's Air Balloon (probably over Toxic), but I'm not fond of the variations I've tried.


Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
Pressure
Timid 252/0/4/0/0/252
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Night Shade

Deoxys-D really shouldn't need any explaining. It does its job, and it does it efficiently. Entry hazards really make the team work. They give Ninetales's Roar some bite, make Genesect all the more deadly, make Tornadus-T, Volcarona, and Dragonite easier to handle, and pave the way for endgame sweeps by Chandelure or Lilligant. I opted for Taunt and Night Shade over Magic Coat and Thunder Wave, with my reasoning being that I'd rather dispose of opposing Deoxys-D via Genesect + Chandelure than run the risk of a Speed tie or opposing Magic Coat. Night Shade becomes even more important when using this team in Suspect, since Thunder Wave is just asking SubSD Garchomp to set up. Taunt is usually reserved for blocking set-up sweepers, or against things that it would be incovenient to try to stack against, such as Forretress. Generally I want to get my hazards up as quickly as possible if I can, so that I can get the best use out of them. I've considered Tanga Berry so I don't get one-shotted by Genesect's Bug Buzz. (Genesect is why I put the 4 EVs in defense of course, since many more Genesect run U-turn than they do Bug Buzz.)


Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Arena Trap
Jolly 0/252/0/0/4/252 (21 HP IV)
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stone Edge
- Substitute

Dugtrio does here what it normally does for a sun team: kill Tyranitar, Heatran, etc. It can also dispose of Tentacruel and in some cases Blissey, making it easier for me to deal with stall. Earthquake, Reversal, and Substitute are a standard package which I helped pioneer, and while I normally use Stealth Rock as my fourth move, I decided to opt for Stone Edge here to help deal with Volcarona. I'm still considering running Stealth Rock to take a bit of pressure off Deoxys-D, but I feel that would overload Dugtrio. Sucker Punch was another option I considered. 21 HP IV lets you switch into Seismic Toss and not lose your Reversal number.


Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Flash Fire
Modest 0/0/0/252/4/252
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Energy Ball

The reason for the team. Scarf Chandelure is what made this sun HO-ish team possible, maintaining offensive pressure against teams, blocking Rapid Spin, and serving as a potent endgame sweeper. Fire Blast in the sun is scary strong, and even resists can be 2HKOed. Shadow Ball is more consistent, and also smashes Starmie. If the opponent isn't expecting Choice Scarf, Chandelure will only have to spinblock once in a game, outspeeding and OHKOing Starmie with Shadow Ball. It doesn't hurt that sun takes away Chandelure's Water-type weakness. Shadow Ball is also your most consistent option against Tentacruel (though Fire Blast is actually stronger in sun even with the resistance). Chandelure partnered with Dugtrio can actually spin-block Tentacruel when played correctly. Chandelure will do some damage with Shadow Ball, then die to Tentacruel's Scald or whatever, allowing Dugtrio to come in and revenge kill Tentacruel with Earthquake before it can take advantage of Chandelure's death to spin. Opportune switches to Ninetales on Scalds or Protects, then switches back to Chandelure on the Rapid Spin may be necessary. Hidden Power Ice picks off Dragon-types and Energy Ball hits things like Politoed and Gastrodon.


Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Download
Naive 0/8/0/248/0/252
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt

A monster. Maintains offensive pressure, racks up hazard damage, and revenge kills troublesome threats. It's also my only Steel-type, which occasionally means I have to switch it in to Dragon-type attacks; usually I'll try to avoid that if I can though. I've considered Bug Buzz over Thunderbolt, but I'm wary of giving Gyarados too much leeway to do what it wants, and the damage on Politoed is useful anyway. Bug Buzz's utility would mostly come from one-shotting Deoxys-D, which admittedly makes it worth considering all by itself. I've also considered making the switch to Hasty since Chandelure handles most priority users, but since Chandelure is still Pursuit-bait it might be more prudent to keep the Naive nature and not expose myself to Breloom Mach Punches or whatever.


Lilligant @ Leftovers
Chlorophyll
Modest 52/0/0/252/12/192
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Rock
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance

Lilligant is still an incredibly underrated sweeper (even after Stone and Alice's RMT's success....). It can steamroll whole teams on its own if given a set-up chance, and it can even make an opportunity of its own (though I'll try not to waste Sleep Powder on that since Lilligant is at its most deadly when it's at +2/+2/+2 or higher). Giga Drain is the obligatory STAB, keeps you alive, and makes switching into Politoed a bit less daunting. Hidden Power Rock is yet another emergency answer to Volcarona, though it needs some prior damage to work. Hidden Power Ice or Fire could be more useful overall, but I've made the more anti-Volc changes to my team only recently so I'm a bit hesistant to drop HP Rock until after a bit more playtesting. It still does the job at +2 SpA against Flying-types anyway. Sleep Powder is of course an excellent panic button, but if I have ways to handle a threat that don't rely on a 3/4 chance I'll usually take them unless I think those options are so crippling that they'll lose me the game. Using Sleep Powder early also deprives me of the opportunity to get two boosts should I find an initial opening for Lilligant to get the first Quiver Dance off. Speed EVs to outpace +2 Smeargle in the sun, maximum Special Attack, rest for a bit of bulk.

So, there we go. Rate, comment, go nuts.

Nice team, I notice of course it's rather weak to Volcarona with HP Ground, if Duggy's SE misses or if Chandelure misses FB this team is set for a sweep. I'd Suggest running Flamethrower over Fire Blast. Still does nice damage and will relieve your shaky accuracy.

Flamethrower>Fire Blast
Sleep powder can also miss which helps.

Hi tobes. From watching you play I know this is a solid team for sure, At a first look I don't notice to many things about it, except for one. A jolly DD Mence could give you're team a major headache. The only Pokemon you have to out speed a jolly +1 mence is Lilligant, which only does 54% - 64% with hidden power rock. Mence could also easily set up on the likes of a flamethrower locked Genesect, or a Energy ball locked Chandeulure. The suggestion I have to make this a little easier to deal with is to Switch HP rock for HP Ice on lilligant. it's not a major change, but in today's metagame it seems like it's well worth it, With all the 4x weaknesses to ice, such as mence, dragonite, Landorus-t, regular landorus, all of which lilligant will be able to outrun in the sun. I will take a bigger look into this team later on tonight and see what else I can find. Until then goodluck :)

Tobes, this is a pretty cool team, thanks for sharing it. I don't see anything really wrong with it, but I think you could probably make a few changes that would make it run a bit better. I'd try out Hidden Power Fighting on Ninetales instead of Toxic, which as you said, you wouldn't care to keep. Hidden Power Fighting gives you a few things that are pretty helpful in my opinion. First, you get a way to break Heatran's Air Balloon, which helps a lot because then Dugtrio can trap effectively. You also get a way to break Hydreigon Substitutes (27.13 - 32.44%, just enough actually) which is definitely appreciated. Finally, after you burn Tyranitar, you can always hit it for some consistent damage when it repeatedly comes in on Ninetales, until you can successfully trap it with Dugtrio.

On Dugtrio, I'd run an IV spread of 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD with a Hasty nature, just because you always want to get down to your Focus Sash and wreak havoc from there. Dugtrio is honestly not surviving anything, so there aren't any real reprecussions from this change. You could try replacing Substitute or Stone Edge for Memento, but that's more of an optional thing.

Finally, I think there are two options you should test out in the final slot on Deoxys-D: Magic Coat and Hidden Power Fire. Your team has no spinner, so obviously you have to play against hazard-stacking teams really carefully with Ninetales and Choice Scarf Chandelure on your team. Magic Coat eases that a lot, and against opposing Deoxys-D teams, you can just use Magic Coat to bounce back either the entry hazards or Taunt. Hidden Power Fire has more attacking utility, and because you're in the sun, it'll KO Scizor and Genesect switch-ins and do major damage to Forretress and Ferrothorn. That's all I've got to say; once again, good team. I hope I helped.

Great team, have you ever considered Memento on Dugtrio over Stone Edge? It gives you a free switch-in for Lilligant to start setting up or allow you to take out something with Chandelure or Genesect as memento eases prediction (they probably won't be staying in).

What does Lilligant's ev spread accomplish?

Ah yes, forgot to explain that, my apologies. It's enough Speed to outpace +2 Smeargle in sun and the rest of the EVs are used for a little bulk.

Thanks for the rates so far, I'll respond to them later.

I think you should move those HP EVs to Defense EVs on Lilligant, simply because it will always be 2HKOed by Bullet Punch from Band Scizor and Ice Shard from LO Adamant Mamoswine, while with 52 HP EVs there's a higher chance to get OHKOed, and both Scizor and Mamoswine are very common in the current metagame. I also think you should try a Hasty Nature on Dugtrio, and also Stealth Rock > Substitute. Those are just minor changes i think you should give a try, since Dugtrio won't be surviving many hits (and you want Sash to activate) and Stealth Rock would leave Deoxys-D with a fourth slot that could work better, such as Recover, Thunder Wave, Magic Coat, etc.

Ricky Horror said:

Nice team, I notice of course it's rather weak to Volcarona with HP Ground, if Duggy's SE misses or if Chandelure misses FB this team is set for a sweep. I'd Suggest running Flamethrower over Fire Blast. Still does nice damage and will relieve your shaky accuracy.

Flamethrower>Fire Blast
Sleep powder can also miss which helps.

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Fire Blast is really far too powerful to go without. It's really something you have to play with to understand, but I have no intention of cutting Fire Blast. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Shuckle4ubers said:

Hi tobes. From watching you play I know this is a solid team for sure, At a first look I don't notice to many things about it, except for one. A jolly DD Mence could give you're team a major headache. The only Pokemon you have to out speed a jolly +1 mence is Lilligant, which only does 54% - 64% with hidden power rock. Mence could also easily set up on the likes of a flamethrower locked Genesect, or a Energy ball locked Chandeulure. The suggestion I have to make this a little easier to deal with is to Switch HP rock for HP Ice on lilligant. it's not a major change, but in today's metagame it seems like it's well worth it, With all the 4x weaknesses to ice, such as mence, dragonite, Landorus-t, regular landorus, all of which lilligant will be able to outrun in the sun. I will take a bigger look into this team later on tonight and see what else I can find. Until then goodluck :)

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This is definitely worth considering, and DD Mence was a weakness I had overlooked, so thanks for catching that. I have considered switching to HP Ice, but I'm still concerned about Volcarona. I'll probably test it at some point since it does sound beneficial. At present my current gameplan agaisnt DD Salamence (it's very uncommon so I haven't run into one yet) would be to hope that Ninetales still has its Air Balloon intact, sacrifice it to lock Mence into Outrage, then revenge with Genesect. Obviously not the best game plan but at least I'm not completely helpless against it haha.

Harsha said:

Tobes, this is a pretty cool team, thanks for sharing it. I don't see anything really wrong with it, but I think you could probably make a few changes that would make it run a bit better. I'd try out Hidden Power Fighting on Ninetales instead of Toxic, which as you said, you wouldn't care to keep. Hidden Power Fighting gives you a few things that are pretty helpful in my opinion. First, you get a way to break Heatran's Air Balloon, which helps a lot because then Dugtrio can trap effectively. You also get a way to break Hydreigon Substitutes (27.13 - 32.44%, just enough actually) which is definitely appreciated. Finally, after you burn Tyranitar, you can always hit it for some consistent damage when it repeatedly comes in on Ninetales, until you can successfully trap it with Dugtrio.

On Dugtrio, I'd run an IV spread of 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD with a Hasty nature, just because you always want to get down to your Focus Sash and wreak havoc from there. Dugtrio is honestly not surviving anything, so there aren't any real reprecussions from this change. You could try replacing Substitute or Stone Edge for Memento, but that's more of an optional thing.

Finally, I think there are two options you should test out in the final slot on Deoxys-D: Magic Coat and Hidden Power Fire. Your team has no spinner, so obviously you have to play against hazard-stacking teams really carefully with Ninetales and Choice Scarf Chandelure on your team. Magic Coat eases that a lot, and against opposing Deoxys-D teams, you can just use Magic Coat to bounce back either the entry hazards or Taunt. Hidden Power Fire has more attacking utility, and because you're in the sun, it'll KO Scizor and Genesect switch-ins and do major damage to Forretress and Ferrothorn. That's all I've got to say; once again, good team. I hope I helped.

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Hidden Power Fighting is an option, but it's overall very weak, and I could always just Roar Sub Hydreigon. Furthermore I don't like to risk Ninetales vs Tar scenarios more than I have to. At the moment I'd find Toxic to be much more useful since I could do things like bring in Dugtrio on a poisoned Politoed and Sub against it until Toed is in Earthquake KO range. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Choice Scarf Terrakion Stone Edge vs 0 Def IV Hasty Dugtrio: 96.7% - 113.7%
Choice Scarf Terrakion Stone Edge vs 31 Def IV Jolly Dugtrio: 66.8% - 78.7%
Timid Magnezone Flash Cannon vs 0 SpD IV Dugtrio: 100.9% - 119.4%
Timid Magnezone Flash Cannon vs 31 SpD IV Dugtrio: 83.9% - 98.6%

I'm not a fan of lowering Dugtrio's IVs any more than necessary.

I tried Magic Coat, but ultimately I prefer the ability to shut down Dragon Dance Dragonite or Shell Smash Cloyster. Hidden Power Fire is an option, but generally I want to spend the turn it would take to Hidden Power to throw down an entry hazard. I am considering Tanga Berry to make taking Genesect and Scizor on a bit eaiser, as well as to make a neat little trap against Volcarona who thing they can Bug Buzz for an OHKO before I can get Rocks up, ehehehe.

Thanks for the rate.

Chimpakt said:

Great team, have you ever considered Memento on Dugtrio over Stone Edge? It gives you a free switch-in for Lilligant to start setting up or allow you to take out something with Chandelure or Genesect as memento eases prediction (they probably won't be staying in).

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Memento is neat, but I much prefer having another answer to Volcarona, especially since Lilligant can create set-up opportunities on its own. Thanks for the suggestion though.

papai noel said:

I think you should move those HP EVs to Defense EVs on Lilligant, simply because it will always be 2HKOed by Bullet Punch from Band Scizor and Ice Shard from LO Adamant Mamoswine, while with 52 HP EVs there's a higher chance to get OHKOed, and both Scizor and Mamoswine are very common in the current metagame. I also think you should try a Hasty Nature on Dugtrio, and also Stealth Rock > Substitute. Those are just minor changes i think you should give a try, since Dugtrio won't be surviving many hits (and you want Sash to activate) and Stealth Rock would leave Deoxys-D with a fourth slot that could work better, such as Recover, Thunder Wave, Magic Coat, etc.

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After running a few calcs I like the Lilligant EV idea quite a bit and will be going with it, thanks! I don't really want to overload Dugtrio's roles. It's most effective when it doesn't have to worry about being the one to set up Rocks, since it's not likely to be able to both trap something and set up Stealth Rock in the same game. I've already illustrated above why I don't like running Hasty on Dugtrio.

Thanks for the rates!

Hey Tobes, brilliant team, I'm really struggling to see a serious problem besides Magic Bounce users. Rain teams which don't auto lose to Lilligant could be troublesome, but you certainly have the ability to win if you can keep hazards down long enough. The last thing is that Toxic Spikes really look like an issue. All the major Toxic Spikers can set up against Deoxys; I get that Forretress could be predicted around with your Fire types, but Tentacruel isn't close to OHKO'd by Focus Sash Duggy so it can guarantee at least one layer (and since its also threatening Spin, most of the time it will be able to switch out for free).

There aren't any simple changes which will help with those threats, except Venusaur > Lilli for Toxic Spikes but I don't think you want to do that. Something you might like to try would be Froslass > Deoxys-D, freeing up space in the rest of the team. It isn't as reliable at setting up hazards, but in my experience of using it on Sun it's pretty valuable because it tends to Destiny Bond things like Tyranitar, Heatran and Rapid Spinners which can be difficult (and of course if the opponent can't afford to play around trying to avoid DBond because +++ Spikes). Just an idea for you to play with :)

Hope that helps, cool team again.

Hey there. Great team..looks like it could do some serious damage if played right. I've been working on a sun team myself. One of the problems I run into is Latias/Latios; they resist alot of the things sun teams bring to the table. One way I got around this (Other than Choice Scarf Chandelure) was to put Sucker Punch onto Dugtrio (in your case, in place of substitute). Chandelure doesn't always survive to take care of certain threats, so that's just an idea to help take care of those problems.

Also, I was wondering why you chose to use Lilligant over Venusaur? Obviously, Lilligant can get the job done, and it is a good choice; however, I feel that a Chlorophyll Venusaur using growth is somewhat superior, due to the two-stage boost on both attack stats, with an already Chlorophyll-doubled speed. So essentially instead of using Quiver Dance and getting +1 to -SpA, SpD, Spe, you're getting +2 to Spe, SpA, Atk. It can do everything lilligant can do, with superior bulk and offensive stats. Chlor. Venusaur can't use Giga Drain though (I think that's correct..), so reliable recovery is only in Synthesis, which really isn't worth a move slot and causes no damage like Giga Drain. I say all that to say this:

[pimg]3[/pimg]

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Modest (252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP)
-Growth
-Solar Beam / Energy Ball
-Hidden Power Fire
-Sleep Powder

Also, my sun team uses a 252/252 SpA/Spe Timid Ninetales, as more of a sweeper. I like your more bulky version of Ninetales. I may try that. Good luck

What can i say, not many sun teams have the guts to forgo a spinner for the ridicoulus offensive pressure your team has, however i can see some issues (caused just by what makes your team so scary, its offensive prowess). Since momentum is completely necessary for it to function i find substitute users very dangerous. Specially Sheer Force Landorus, which dances on your team if rocks are up/tales has its balloon broken.

To patch this weakness up ill reccomend u to switch your Lilligant for Life Orb Latias, since it completely walls this Landorus, as well being an excellent lure for TTar so dugtrio can win you the weather war and hitting extremely hard on most the rain archetype.


Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Timid Nature
EVs: 244 Spd, 172 SpA, 88 HP
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

I added Psyshock to the set because your team has no really safe counter for Keldeo, and this Latias provides that as well. The EVs are designed to outrun positive speed natured 108s, though you can go for a simpler 252 SpA/252 Spd/4 HP.

Hope i helped :]

Try running a rapid spinner in your team.
Helps dugtrio keeps its sash
Genesect doesnt like entry hazards one bit
ninetales would love entry hazards gone too

try run expert belt latios instead of life orb if you decide to run it.

Have you tried putting a rapid spinner somewhere? Let's say, the opponent brings in Tyranitar somewhere (he has a lot of opportunitys to do so), sets up rocks while you bring in Duggy, which can't OHKO Tyranitar while Tar brings Duggy down to it's sash. You win the weather war, sure, but your Duggy is useless now and your completly walled by Heatran, which is often paired with Tyranitar. The same goes for Terrakion. Once Duggy is useless, it can cleanly sweep your team with whatever set (worst is RP). So Duggy is a very cruical part of your team but without a spinner it's effectivnes is decreased. I don't really know where to put in a spinner, but I guess it'll really help a lot.

Actually, one last thing, try running Red Card instead of Leftovers on Deoxys-D. It basically guarantees you'll get hazards up against a Magic Bounce user, and also makes it a little harder for the opponent to 2HKO you (e.g. no more Tyranitar 2HKO, no more Genesect U-turn -> anti-Deoxys mon). Also, it still has some minor benefits if you're playing against something like DDMence.

bubbly said:

Hey Tobes, brilliant team, I'm really struggling to see a serious problem besides Magic Bounce users. Rain teams which don't auto lose to Lilligant could be troublesome, but you certainly have the ability to win if you can keep hazards down long enough. The last thing is that Toxic Spikes really look like an issue. All the major Toxic Spikers can set up against Deoxys; I get that Forretress could be predicted around with your Fire types, but Tentacruel isn't close to OHKO'd by Focus Sash Duggy so it can guarantee at least one layer (and since its also threatening Spin, most of the time it will be able to switch out for free).

There aren't any simple changes which will help with those threats, except Venusaur > Lilli for Toxic Spikes but I don't think you want to do that. Something you might like to try would be Froslass > Deoxys-D, freeing up space in the rest of the team. It isn't as reliable at setting up hazards, but in my experience of using it on Sun it's pretty valuable because it tends to Destiny Bond things like Tyranitar, Heatran and Rapid Spinners which can be difficult (and of course if the opponent can't afford to play around trying to avoid DBond because +++ Spikes). Just an idea for you to play with :)

Hope that helps, cool team again.

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Thank you! Toxic Spikes are indeed annoying, but generally I can make do as long as they don't get 2 layers up, since that really cripples Lilligant. I am giving some thought to Venusaur, but I'll go into more detail as to why I prefer Lilligant below. Froslass is certainly an interesting option which I hadn't considered before. I'd probably go for it I didn't value Deoxys-D's ability to lay both Stealth Rock and Spikes so much. Thanks for the rate.

abhawk said:

Hey there. Great team..looks like it could do some serious damage if played right. I've been working on a sun team myself. One of the problems I run into is Latias/Latios; they resist alot of the things sun teams bring to the table. One way I got around this (Other than Choice Scarf Chandelure) was to put Sucker Punch onto Dugtrio (in your case, in place of substitute). Chandelure doesn't always survive to take care of certain threats, so that's just an idea to help take care of those problems.

Also, I was wondering why you chose to use Lilligant over Venusaur? Obviously, Lilligant can get the job done, and it is a good choice; however, I feel that a Chlorophyll Venusaur using growth is somewhat superior, due to the two-stage boost on both attack stats, with an already Chlorophyll-doubled speed. So essentially instead of using Quiver Dance and getting +1 to -SpA, SpD, Spe, you're getting +2 to Spe, SpA, Atk. It can do everything lilligant can do, with superior bulk and offensive stats. Chlor. Venusaur can't use Giga Drain though (I think that's correct..), so reliable recovery is only in Synthesis, which really isn't worth a move slot and causes no damage like Giga Drain. I say all that to say this:

[pimg]3[/pimg]

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Modest (252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP)
-Growth
-Solar Beam / Energy Ball
-Hidden Power Fire
-Sleep Powder

Also, my sun team uses a 252/252 SpA/Spe Timid Ninetales, as more of a sweeper. I like your more bulky version of Ninetales. I may try that. Good luck

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Thanks. Between Genesect, Chandelure, and Roar Ninetales, I rarely have too much difficulty in handling Lati@s. The primary reasons I chose Lilligant over Venusaur were that Lilligant is not nearly as weather-dependant as Venusuar, and Lilligant can afford to run Hidden Power Rock to act as a Volcarona check, while Venusaur doesn't really have that luxury. If I were to replace Lilligant it would probably be with Venusaur or Swasbuck, but to be honest I have very rarely been disappointed with Lilligant. Also Giga Drain is legal on Venusaur with Chlorophyll in BW2.

Stone RG said:

What can i say, not many sun teams have the guts to forgo a spinner for the ridicoulus offensive pressure your team has, however i can see some issues (caused just by what makes your team so scary, its offensive prowess). Since momentum is completely necessary for it to function i find substitute users very dangerous. Specially Sheer Force Landorus, which dances on your team if rocks are up/tales has its balloon broken.

To patch this weakness up ill reccomend u to switch your Lilligant for Life Orb Latias, since it completely walls this Landorus, as well being an excellent lure for TTar so dugtrio can win you the weather war and hitting extremely hard on most the rain archetype.


Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Timid Nature
EVs: 244 Spd, 172 SpA, 88 HP
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

I added Psyshock to the set because your team has no really safe counter for Keldeo, and this Latias provides that as well. The EVs are designed to outrun positive speed natured 108s, though you can go for a simpler 252 SpA/252 Spd/4 HP.

Hope i helped :]

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Lilligant actually handles Sheer Force Landorus pretty well, but it can indeed be quite a threat. It depends on the team, but my general plan against Keldeo is to use Dugtrio to weaken it and then finish it off with Lilligant, or just put it to sleep with Lilligant and start Giga Draining (assuming sun if up; if not I have to get a bit creative). Latias would definitely help against Keldeo, but in that slot I'd much rather use a Venusaur for its sheer offensive presence in sun. Additionally I already have Chandelure for Pursuit-bait. Thanks for the rate.

Jstan said:

Try running a rapid spinner in your team.
Helps dugtrio keeps its sash
Genesect doesnt like entry hazards one bit
ninetales would love entry hazards gone too

try run expert belt latios instead of life orb if you decide to run it.

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Lohgock said:

Have you tried putting a rapid spinner somewhere? Let's say, the opponent brings in Tyranitar somewhere (he has a lot of opportunitys to do so), sets up rocks while you bring in Duggy, which can't OHKO Tyranitar while Tar brings Duggy down to it's sash. You win the weather war, sure, but your Duggy is useless now and your completly walled by Heatran, which is often paired with Tyranitar. The same goes for Terrakion. Once Duggy is useless, it can cleanly sweep your team with whatever set (worst is RP). So Duggy is a very cruical part of your team but without a spinner it's effectivnes is decreased. I don't really know where to put in a spinner, but I guess it'll really help a lot.

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I fully intend to give Custap Berry lead Forretress a try when it's released in place of Deoxys-D. Hazards can indeed be a problem, since my only way to keep them off is with Deo-D's Taunt or sheer offensive pressure. This is why I tend to focus on my own entry hazards, so that I can outdamage them even if they do get hazards of their own. Also, against teams running both Tyranitar and Heatran, I usually put disposing of Heatran ahead of getting rid of Tyranitar. Tyranitar is generally much easier to wear down because of Genesect. There are of course instances where I'm going to go for the Tyranitar if I have the chance (say, against a Choice-locked Tyranitar that just killed Chandelure), but usually Heatran is more of an overall threat and therefore my primary target. Thanks for the rates.

bubbly said:

Actually, one last thing, try running Red Card instead of Leftovers on Deoxys-D. It basically guarantees you'll get hazards up against a Magic Bounce user, and also makes it a little harder for the opponent to 2HKO you (e.g. no more Tyranitar 2HKO, no more Genesect U-turn -> anti-Deoxys mon). Also, it still has some minor benefits if you're playing against something like DDMence.

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Red Card does sound interesting. I'll try that out sometime, thanks.

Solid team, Tobes, nothing glaring in terms of weakness, but I do have some suggestions:

Have you considered Shed Shell on Ninetales? If Air Balloon is mainly for Dugtrio, then Shed Shell is far more reliable. It's also nice to run away from Gothitelle that can just as easily ruin Ninetales.

Also Scarf Chandelure is better off with HP Fighting & Flamethrower over Energy Ball & HP Ice. You already have Genesect to revenge-kill dragons and therians, so there's no reason for Chandelure to carry HP Ice. Instead HP Fighting provides superior coverage, allowing Chandelure to 2HKO non-Chople TTars with hazards support provided by Deoxys-D. It can even pop Air Balloon and do hefty damage to Heatran, allowing you to save Dugtrio for something else. Finally, Flamethrower provides you with a reliable cleaning move when the power of Fire Blast is unneeded. With Sun up, there will be many scenarios where Flamethrower can clean up. Shadow Ball would dent Politoed anyways and Gastrodon is uncommon, so Energy Ball is really not worth it.