Genies and Pokeball Simulation

***Wild Eep**** · Oct 4th, 2012, 11:35:34 AM

It has recently come to my attention that the genies and gen 4 mascots (this includes Ho-Oh and Lugia) you obtain via the Dream Radar only come in Dream Balls. Coupled with the fact these Pokemon are not catchable in Dream Balls otherwise, this means in wi-fi battles, a player can tell if the Tornadus/Thundurus/Landorus his or her opponent sends out came from the Dream Radar or not, and thus consequently whether it has its hidden ability or not (The gen 4 mascots are irrelevant since you know whether or not they have Pressure anyway).

The reason I bring this up is that in wi-fi, players can tell immediately after Landorus is sent out if it has Sheer Force (Dream Ball) or Sand Force (not Dream Ball), and this takes away a lot of the surprise factor present with Landorus in simulator battles.

I think that this may be the point at which it makes sense for the sim to implement Pokeball in some manner. I'm not sure what the best way would be, but it might be worthwhile to put a Pokeball icon to the left of the Pokemon's name (like what the game does with wild Pokemon when you've already caught the species).

I wonder what the community thinks is the best course of action.

**TheMantyke** · Oct 4th, 2012, 12:16:51 PM

I'm actually very glad that this subject was brought up. Pokeball restraints have been an important factor for cartridge battles since the crown beasts were released and no simulator I'm aware of includes Pokeballs. If we're striving towards the most accurate simulator possible, implementing Pokeballs would be a good step forward (though I realize our showdown developers have a lot on their plates at the moment so this is hardly a priority).

MikeDecIsHere · Oct 4th, 2012, 1:45:18 PM

If we're going to do this, there should be something with Shiny Pokemon as well. For example, a non-Shiny Raikou in cartridge cannot be suspected of having Aura Sphere, since the Raikou released with Aura Sphere is strictly Shiny. This goes for E-Speed Entei as well. Not sure if there are any other notable Pokemon in the game that follow this.

***Wild Eep**** · Oct 4th, 2012, 2:09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MikeDecIsHere

If we're going to do this, there should be something with Shiny Pokemon as well. For example, a non-Shiny Raikou in cartridge cannot be suspected of having Aura Sphere, since the Raikou released with Aura Sphere is strictly Shiny. This goes for E-Speed Entei as well. Not sure if there are any other notable Pokemon in the game that follow this.

On top of that, shiny legendary beasts can only have their special moves (and consequently the nature locks) when they're in a Cherish Ball. A shiny legendary beast in a non-Cherish ball can have any nature, but not the special moves.

The genies and the beasts are by far the two biggest deals in this situation.

Jirachi technically applies but isn't as important - Poke Ball Jirachi can have 3rd gen tutors like Body Slam, etc., while Cherish Ball Jirachi can have Draco Meteor (lol) but no Body Slam. Even less significant is Celebi (since everyone uses Cherish Ball Nasty Plot and no one uses 3rd gen tutor moves on it)

I thought Darkrai and Arceus would apply with their special moves (the dragon moves, and Shadow Force for Arceus) as well, but those events can do everything any event without the special moves can.

At some point, for the sake of thoroughness I'll look through all the godforsaken Pikachu events for ball inconsistencies too...

***mingot***** · Oct 6th, 2012, 11:39:51 AM

PS! often shows a "guessed ability" in addition to the possible abilities. Perhaps the rules could just be in place for the "guessed ability" to show for monsters when it can be determined based on ball/shiny/etc.

david stone · Oct 9th, 2012, 1:04:41 PM

The situation isn't that drastic for Raikou, since there is no reason not to use a Shiny Cherish Ball Raikou. Same goes for Basculin Blue (the possible Pokemon for Basculin Blue is everything Basculin Red has, plus one ability).

I guess I'm saying that Cherish Ball Shiny Raikou should probably be the default in the team builder.

***Great Sage***** · Oct 9th, 2012, 1:55:43 PM

Cherish Ball shiny Raikou is, as far as I know, restricted to having a Rash nature, so I don't think that works.

Oct 4th, 2012, 11:35:34 AM	#1
*Wild Eep Iron Bahbs Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,603 Vine Trip Mentor	Genies and Pokeball Simulation It has recently come to my attention that the genies and gen 4 mascots (this includes Ho-Oh and Lugia) you obtain via the Dream Radar only come in Dream Balls. Coupled with the fact these Pokemon are not catchable in Dream Balls otherwise, this means in wi-fi battles, a player can tell if the Tornadus/Thundurus/Landorus his or her opponent sends out came from the Dream Radar or not, and thus consequently whether it has its hidden ability or not (The gen 4 mascots are irrelevant since you know whether or not they have Pressure anyway). The reason I bring this up is that in wi-fi, players can tell immediately after Landorus is sent out if it has Sheer Force (Dream Ball) or Sand Force (not Dream Ball), and this takes away a lot of the surprise factor present with Landorus in simulator battles. I think that this may be the point at which it makes sense for the sim to implement Pokeball in some manner. I'm not sure what the best way would be, but it might be worthwhile to put a Pokeball icon to the left of the Pokemon's name (like what the game does with wild Pokemon when you've already caught the species). I wonder what the community thinks is the best course of action. __________________ Last edited by Wild Eep; Oct 6th, 2012 at 2:47:30 PM. Reason: clarifying

Oct 4th, 2012, 12:16:51 PM	#2
TheMantyke Relentless Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,165 Atlanta, GA	I'm actually very glad that this subject was brought up. Pokeball restraints have been an important factor for cartridge battles since the crown beasts were released and no simulator I'm aware of includes Pokeballs. If we're striving towards the most accurate simulator possible, implementing Pokeballs would be a good step forward (though I realize our showdown developers have a lot on their plates at the moment so this is hardly a priority). __________________

Oct 4th, 2012, 1:45:18 PM	#3
MikeDecIsHere Laying the Groundwork for the Pound Work Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,831 Staten Island Mentor	If we're going to do this, there should be something with Shiny Pokemon as well. For example, a non-Shiny Raikou in cartridge cannot be suspected of having Aura Sphere, since the Raikou released with Aura Sphere is strictly Shiny. This goes for E-Speed Entei as well. Not sure if there are any other notable Pokemon in the game that follow this. __________________

Oct 6th, 2012, 11:39:51 AM	#5
*mingot* free agent Administrator** Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,045	PS! often shows a "guessed ability" in addition to the possible abilities. Perhaps the rules could just be in place for the "guessed ability" to show for monsters when it can be determined based on ball/shiny/etc. __________________ Check out the new In-Game section! RNG Reporter/RNG Help Thread (Discuss) RNG Research Thread

Oct 9th, 2012, 1:04:41 PM	#6
david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,152	The situation isn't that drastic for Raikou, since there is no reason not to use a Shiny Cherish Ball Raikou. Same goes for Basculin Blue (the possible Pokemon for Basculin Blue is everything Basculin Red has, plus one ability). I guess I'm saying that Cherish Ball Shiny Raikou should probably be the default in the team builder. __________________ Previously obi. Technical Machine, a Pokemon AI. "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

Oct 9th, 2012, 1:55:43 PM	#7
*Great Sage* Administrator** Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,872 Boston, MA Mentor	Cherish Ball shiny Raikou is, as far as I know, restricted to having a Rash nature, so I don't think that works.