Team: Old School

This is my first attempt at the UU ladder, and 5th Gen as a whole. This team is based off an older DPPt OU core that got a team into the top 25 on Shoddy Battle; thus Old School was born. After the generation conversion and the tier change, it performed quite a bit better than I expected, peaking at #11 on the PS ladder. A few tweaks might make it better, so I’m happy to post it and get some feedback.

As a warning, many of the sets are non-standard in some way, but have been undoubtedly effective.

If I had to describe the play style, it would be Balance. It has three Lefties users and three Choice users. No individual member is set up bait, and all can make game-changing KOs. It destroys most offensive teams, and has a bit more trouble with well-played stall teams, although it can dismantle them if played well. Playing with this team forced me to anticipate my opponent’s predictions, and required quite a bit of mind-gaming.

Team Building Process
Breakdown

Shaymin has proven vital to my team’s overall health. I can’t count how many time Aromatherapy has saved me from a certain sweep, to the point that it is even worth sacrificing Shaymin to use it if need be. Many times, however, Shaymin can heal the team from behind the safety of its 101HP subs, which make Seismic Toss users set-up bate for Leech Seed abuse. Substitute allows it to get in a crucial Seed Flare or Aromatherapy if a counter switches in. It is great at wearing down certain walls or bulky opponents that rely on Leftovers for recovery before finishing them off with Seed Flare.

Its biggest problems are Roserade, who sets up entry hazards with impunity, and Virizion, who uses Shaymin to set up a wide variety of stat boosts once it realizes that I don’t carry Psychic or Airslash. I would almost consider Airslash over Seed Flare just for these two, but the temptations of STAB and the SpD drops against neutral opponents have kept me favoring the latter.

Physically defensive Zapdos seems pretty rare in 5th Gen UU, and I have no idea why. The investment in HP and defense makes him great to switch into U-Turns, and he still has enough raw firepower to hit hard off that sexy Base 125 SpA stat. Discharge was selected over Thunderbolt for the Paralysis chance, which my team often needs to cripple opposing sweepers. It can be a big deterrent for Heracross sweeps, since if it gets locked into anything but Stone Edge Zapdos can stop it cold. It does have problems switching into Heracross and Meinshao due to Stone Edge, which impedes its original purpose as a fighting resist, but it is often a valuable team member, stalling and statusing whatever it needs to until I can regain momentum.

HP [Ice] is specifically for Gliscor and Flygon, common switch-ins to this set. 240 HP EVs gives it 381 health, allowing 4 stealth rock switch-ins without dying.

Because of its typing, it is often my best switch in for Virizion and Suicune, although with enough CMs they can be dangerous. I have considered running Whirlwind over Heat Wave to remedy this problem. My team generally doesn’t have too much trouble with Baton Pass teams, but I think some form of phazing would probably be good.

Snorlax is the second in my defensive core, and quite literally the core of the entire team. Snorlax has the unique ability to completely destroy almost any special threat it faces, and it can out-stall most of the common walls. Body Slam hits many offensive switch-ins such as Heracross, Meinshao, Honchkrow, and Darmanitan hard enough to KO after SR damage, and can provide additional Paralysis support if the opponent has a bit more bulk. It also does a fantastic job of out-stalling just about every wall in UU, including Cofagrigus if it gets a Defense drop from Crunch. Rest provides much needed HP and status recovery, often important in stall wars. Sleep talk prevents him from being a sitting duck, and allows me to absorb Sleep moves with almost no drawback. I have to play very conservatively with Snorlax since he is such a key member in the team, but more often than not he is the MVP, and has brought me back from 4-1 defeats to victory.

The EV spread should be obvious. I have considered 0 Spd IVs and a –Spd nature, but he is already slower than most Trick Room users, and can generally take the ones who are faster after TR anyway.

Rest and Sleep Talk remove Slowbro as a threat, and Choice Band Snorlax has rarely been an issue. His biggest issue is Foul Play Umbreon, which completely wrecks Snorlax. Even Wish/Heal Bell Umbreon can be an issue, since the Paralysis from Body Slam is rendered ineffective. Contrary to popular belief, he is NOT set-up bate, regularly killing opposing Frosslass and Roserade trying to stay in and Spike.

Machamp is my primary stall breaker. After the obligatory Ghost has been removed, Dynamic Punch does a nice job of cleaning up opponents. Ice Punch is great for the surprise KO on enemy Gligar and occasionally Golurk that try to switch in to take the DP.

Choice Band allows it to hit as hard as possible as often as possible, since many times there wouldn’t be time to get a Bulk Up in. 48 Spd EVs allows it to outrun most Swampert, Porygon2, and other Machamp trying to beat these threats. Considering the danger posed to most teams by this set, I’m surprised I don’t see it more often.


Azelf is the team member I was least sure about starting out, and the one I am most open to changing, even though he has been great in the lead position. Many leads that are weak to Psyshock stay in on Azelf, either expecting to out-speed, KO, or set up. Because of this, Azelf will typically net an early game kill against Meinshao, Heracross, and Roserade, making the rest of the team’s jobs a lot easier.

Azelf’s wonderful Base 115 Spd stat allows it to out-speed many common threats even when the Scarf is gone. His even higher attacking stats make sure whatever takes the hit is hurt.

I have previously tried Focus Sash, but I was tired of being beaten by standard lead Meinshao. I had also tried Fire Blast and Fire Punch with max attack, but neither were effective at taking out lead Roserade. I tried Psychic, but still couldn’t OHKO SpD invested Roserade, so I changed it to Psyshock, which picked up that kill without compromising any of the other important ones.

Chandelure serves two main purposes on my team: Normal/Fighting immunity and revenge killer. While spin blocking isn’t vital, it can really annoy opposing teams. It is more often used to switch into predicted High Jump Kicks to give recoil damage, or to take superpowers for Snorlax if Zapdos is otherwise indisposed. When I had run Choice Specs, I was almost never able to use Chandelure more than once a match due to him being quickly revenge killed. After a truly frustrating loss, I switched to Choice Scarf, and never looked back. I changed HP [Fighting] to Trick because is better at dealing with Snorlax and Porygon2, while it only losing coverage to Houndoom, which is rarely a threat to my other team mates.

I am not entirely sure about the bulk, but it has useful when using Chandlure to revenge kill threats by allowing it to survive the crucial switch in turn and then outspeed. 240 HP EVs is a Stealth Rock number, allowing Chandelure to switch in up to five times with SR on the field. Maximum speed nets me almost complete coverage against Heracross (Jolly + Choice Scarf still out-speeds, but is almost never run), and minimum attack prevents Foul Play from being a 1HKO and minimizes confusion damage. I am considering reducing the HP investment for max SpA, but I haven’t found any convincing calculations to show it would be a better set.


Problem List

The main issues this team has are the fast physical Fighting and Fire types, such as Heracross, Meinshao, Victini, and Darmanitan, especially if they are running Life Orb sets. Taking them out relies on prediction and status, and I have no reliable switches if the other player is competent.


Flygon can be a pain to deal with if I don’t nail it on a switch, or if it is holding Choice Scarf, since Zapdos needs to be almost at full health to take an Outrage. No other member of my team can even come close. Kingdra can also be a problem, especially mixed sets that run Draco Meteor and Outrage. I usually let those wear down their life orb and revenge kill with Azelf.


The team also has some trouble with stall in general, specifically if they get more than one layer of Spikes or Toxic Spikes up. When I notice a team is built for stall, I try to take out the Roserade as fast as possible, but good players only let Roserade set up against Shaymin, where they always get a free turn. Wish passing Umbreon has also given me headaches if Machamp is down, or it is partnered with a Ghost.


Conclusion

This has been a great team, and I hope to see some good constructive criticism! Since I’ve started laddering with it, I’ve noticed a couple other people beginning to run Tricky Chandelure and Stall-Lax, so clearly some of these sets have merit. Tell me what you think!

Hey there. I'm pretty sure I played this team before(and won, woot!), so I know some of the issues already(fighting types).

Because you have no rapid spinner, and you're counter to fighting types, Zapdos, is weak to them. This means that if you switch Zappy in to Mienshao's HJK, then it takes a ton of damage from the Stone Edge afterwards. SD Heracross can demolish this team with ease too-and you have to rely on Azelf or Chandelure to revenge kill him, and then Hera can switch out, and do it again later in the match. You have absolutely nothing to take on Scarf Darmanitan or Victini, as Snorlax is 2HKO'd by both, and Chandelure is a very obvious switch-in, and take 25% of it's health every turn. Choice Band Flygon is pretty much un-wallable unless you're carrying a Bronzong, but even Choice Scarf Flygon does a significant number on your team. Azelf should be able to revenge kill this, but it only does 60% max, so Choice Scarf Flygon shreds your team as after Azelf switches into Stealth Rock's twice, Flygon can 1HKO with Outrage. Snorlax can beat the majority of special Kingdra, but DD Kingdra can set-up on Fire Blast locked Chandy or Machamp locked into Payback, and then finish your team off.

First off, I recommend running Nidoqueen over Azelf. Nidoqueen does much of the same that Azelf does, such as taking out leads early game and setting up SR. Nidoqueen 2HKO's both Rade and Bronzong with Fire Blast, and Mienshao and Ambipom both get 1HKO'd by the Earth Power. Although you lose out on a lot of speed, Azelf is the lead first and foremost, and secondly it carries only one offensive move that really doesn't hit anything that hard like Flygon. Nidoqueen can survive the Outrage, and KO with Ice Beam as well, so that's not as much of an issue as long as Queen is healthy. Nidoqueen also really helps in countering the myriad of fighting types courtesy of its typing and bulk.

However, Nidoqueen isn't a full-proof counter to these fighting types, but alongside Zapdos, I think you pretty much have them covered. However, now you need a way to beat down offensive fires. Enter Blastoise. Blastoise, although not a full-proof counter to these fire's since he has no reliable recovery, does to well against the scarfed variants of Darmanitan and Victini, and has Roar to help vs. Baton Pass teams. I think putting him over Machamp would be your best option, as Machamp certainly isn't going to be breaking stall apart(Cofagrigus says hi as stall's number one spin-blocker, as does Slowbro and Zapdos). Blastoise can at least spin away stall's hazards, and with Chandelure to Trick Snorlax, Nidoqueen is able to dish out damage to stall teams with huge success. When I battled this team, I was able to wear it down with rocks and spikes, and you had nothing to do back to it. If you had a spinner, then you wouldn't have been worn down quite as easily. Blastoise also helps vs. DD Kingdra, as he can take an +1 Outrage and Roar him out.

Here are the sets:

GL and I hope I helped.