#strong Defense

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SDef / 4 HP
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Wish / Thunder Wave

This handles everything you would expect it to. Blissey usually splits the job with Celebi, as they handle each other's weaknesses pretty well. Wish + Softboiled is because well, Wish is busted on Blissey, and it also ensures safety against Critical hits. I've considered Thunder Wave over Wish for more offensive teams. I don't really like anything over Stoss here. Even with Perish Song for CMers like Jirachi or Raikou, Seismic Toss allows me to hit Lucario, Infernape, TTar, Hippowdon switching in instead of something weird. I suppose Fire Blast wouldn't be a terrible move to consider though.


Skarmory @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 232 Def / 252 HP / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Toxic

Skarmory handles most physical crap with Toxic + Whirlwind. Losing to Taunt sucks but it happens. This Skarmory can immediately make Hippowdon + Abomasnow almost none-factors for the rest of the duel with its Toxic, and it can outstall threats that I don't want to Brave Bird, such as CB TTar, Landorus-T, etc. The Bold nature is intentional guys, gives me less confusion damage.


Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 68 Spd / 248 HP / 192 SDef
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Toxic
- Protect

Toxic allows this to take on Jellicent who can annoy me with Taunt. I mean, this has always been the best Pokemon in B/W in my opinion so I dunno what would compel me to change it. It just handles too many variables like Ferrothorn and Sun sweepers. The Speed is for Scizors or weird CM shit like Cresselia. Opposing Heatran do worry me though, I wouldn't be opposed to Earth Power, but it is really hard to fit it in over anything. Toxic Spikes would certainly help here if I had them.


Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 216 HP / 176 Def / 116 SDef
Careful Nature
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Waterfall

Is basically how I handle Baton Pass w/ Vaporeon. Vaporeon seems to be the goto switch on this Mon when I Waterfall. Roar then takes it out. Other than that, it's main purpose is to serve with Landorus as the Physical Breaker. Gyarados usually can handle Lucario, other Gyarados, Gliscor, Infernape, etc. while Landorus takes on Terrakion and Tyranitar. With them both having Intimidate, nothing is really safe. Actually prefer to have this thing sleeping at all times. Sleep Talk Roar is usually my best bet when it comes to opposing stall.


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- U-turn

It seems like crappy Water-types want to switch in on Landorus a lot. Stone Edge proved to be useless while Toxic just gave me 4 mons with Toxic as status, basically guaranteeing I don't lose to bullshit sweepers. U-Turn and Earthquake keep up a physical presence and I heard Stealth Rock was pretty good so yeah. This kind of glues up the physical weakness this team has pretty well, and allows me to keep momentum with U-Turn. I also like that it forces out Tentacruels just as a presence. They fear it's faster and take even more hazard damage. Fine by me.


Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Perish Song
- Recover
- Psychic

Finally, the last resort to Gengar, Keldeo, Baton Pass, Thundurus, and who knows what else. Scizor has a tough time vs this team, so it'll have to hope to get advantage from switching into predicted Celebis. The truth is, that is usually just really easy to read and gets Skarmory in there to Spike. The real issue is Tornadus-T or just fast sweepers I can't abuse, but with Heatran + Blissey, they aren't a huge threat. This is my counter to Breloom and Amoongus, who are also very annoying to most stall-teams.

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Flaws: I don't have a Ghost-type or Rapid Spin. I don't see any way I lose to Rain, Sun, Sand, or Baton Pass, but I lose to good people using stall pretty easily. Obviously explosive OU teams just kill me, but I find I can Intimidate + SDef block for a while that I actually gain advantage. It's hard to replace anything here though because it all serves very specific purposes.

This team is definitely not for everyone though. I have to double switch a lot to get value out of my Intimidates + Hazards. I'm sure there's a 100 players who could run it better than me, but please keep in mind that this team isn't as cut and dry as switch in and switch out. I have to play it very aggressively because I can't rely on a Spinner or a Ghost to clear hazards or protect my own, so just keep that in mind as you rate. And I would love to add them, it's just hard to replace like I said.

Hi,

This is an interesting, and pretty stall oriented team to say the least !
As nobody dares give you a rate, I'll give it a try because I see some changes that you could apply to improve the team.


Here are the weaknesses :

- You're stall oriented but you lack a way to spin, and to block spin. This seems to be a stupid go-to-go advice, but all you efforts can be ruined in a single turn. Moreover you have no taunt, hence, nothing to prevent an opposing Deoxys-D to set-up hazards. Looking at Deoxys-D, what can you do against it? He can outspeed and taunt your whole team pretty freely, this is not something that you want, because your team can't damage him at all.

- You'll have issues against the classic Volt-Turn combo : Scizor and Rotom-W. Prediction or not, they can go around freely. Your only Electric resistance being Landorus-T, who can't stay against Rotom-W in the fear of a HPump. Your attempt to Toxic the Rotom-W will be useless, because a Scizor will come right after to sponge it.

- Your pokemons are really slow, and you lack firepower. This shouldn't be an issue in a stall, but I'm afraid that you let too many holes for your enemy to play with. Moreover you can't control the weather and you benefit from none.
All in all, powerhouses like Nasty Plot Thundurus-T are pretty free to cast doom on the team.


Stall teams need to share a strong synergy between the members. Thus, I'll propose you several changes, it may be heavy, but it won't change so much the team and how it works.

The first change is :

Jellicent > Celebi



This is the most "efficient" change you could do. I'm pretty sure that it does work on its own and improve the team straight off.

What do you win ?

Pretty simply, Jellicent is a better Special Tank, his typing is far better, resisting U-Turn that can ruin any Stall Team, and Sponging Water Moves (even Volt-Switch from Rotom-W Specs can't 2HKO this version).
You gain a way to spread Statuts, I prefer WillOWisp on this version simply because you will be more likely to need a reliable way to burn someone that to Toxic.
You gain a way to beat Pranksters and Deoxys-D ! Magic Coat is fairly unpredicted on Jellicent, and I believe will help you a lot. Moreover, people usually try to Toxic you.
Overrall, now you can block any spinner (not even 2HKO by LO Starmie Thunder factoring Leftovers...).
Finally, Jellicent and Landorus-T have a better synergy (no Ice weakness), so you gain here a really solid defensive core.

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What do you lose ?

You lose Perish Song, to me this is the only thing that you really lose. However, Baton Pass is a marginal style of playing, and even if you Roar stuff, you can't beat it with Stall. Anyway, Mr.Mime who is a stample on any Baton Pass team, ruins any attempt of breaking the chain from Celebi.
You lose a status absorber.

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Now the others changes are more tough, it may not be to your liking, and fix some minor stuff :

Tentacruel > Gyarados



What do you win ?

The matchup against Rain teams is really better now, while Tentacruel may not be as "bulky" as a Intimidate Gyarados, you got a reliable recovery now in Rain Dish. Basically you don't have to waste two move slot in Rest and Sleep Talk (and you don't randomize your attacks).
You also get a Rapid Spinner, that's pretty valuable in any Stall team, and while Gyarados was weak to SR, Tentacruel isn't.
You can spread more status in Scald and TSpikes. This will free you some moveslots.
You also lose a *4 Electric weakness, and once again Tentacruel works pretty well along with Landorus-T.
Landorus-T will really shine now.

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What do you lose ?

You lose some Bulkyness maybe, with the loss of Intimidate. You lose a phazing move. You lose a Status absorber. You get a new Ground weakness.

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Other options ?

I think a Latias could work in lieu of Gyarados, giving you a possible Wish passer and a Roar user with a reliable recovery move. The loss of Intimidate could be mitigated by Reflect. He takes Thundurus-T decently aswell.
However I really prefer getting a spinner.

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The last change, is just the chain reaction with the previous changes. They leave you weak to Electric moves.

That's why, here is my last change :

Ferrothorn > Skarmory



This pokemon can be a lot more tricky, deal some nice damages and a fine typing.

What do you win ?

Basically, you win a Electric resistance and that's all you need. Ferrothorn works also better as Mixed Tank, and can deal damages.
People can't set-up on him as easily, Leech Seed working like a pseudo phazing move.
You also get an useful Rock Resistance.
As you probably realise, I chosed Sand Storm. This could be game changing, Protect is too obvious and people usually play around it easily. Sand Storm can help you a lot, since enemies will assume that there weather is granted. Sand Storm can "clear" it and make some big powerhouses look less threatening all of a sudden.

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What do you lose ?

A pokemon neutral to Fighting. A reliable healing and phazing move.

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And now, some changes on the movesets :

I'd do :

- Blissey Arometherapy > Toxik (especially if you get Tentacruel and Jellicent, it mitigates the loss of two Status Absorbers, but anyway it is still superior in my opinion, you got too many Toxik users).

- EarthPower > Toxik on Heatran, I really think that you lose some valuable move slots by putting Toxik on everything.




Thats all I got, I hope I helped.


TL;DR




EDIT : If you're afraid of Breloom, you can always go Forretress and Latias over Tentacruel and Ferrothorn. But well, with SR Spikes/TSpikes up, intimidate, and Tentacruel who can take decently the hits at-1, it shouldn't be that hard to deal with him just with the recoil of LO and Toxic.

@Remedy:The team after your changes is extremely weak to Breloom.All the opponent needs is to take care of Landorus-T.But when Lando-t is in business of dealing with things like SD/CB terrakion and Tyranitar,that won't be a very hard job.Spore would also mess things up.

This is a really interesting team.Like Remedy pointed out first you have no spin blocker and more importantly a spinner.You said you play aggressively with it and double switch to deal with it.So I don't think a spin blocker is really that necessary for you.But you need a spinner.Deo-D in particular is a big threat since it can shut down your walls with taunt and spread hazrads easily.Moreover you have a SR weak pokemon.therefore i suggest you change Landorus-T to Donphan.Donphan acts almost exactly like Landorus-T and makes up for the fighting resist with a immense bulk.You lose out Intimidate but Rapid Spin is worth it imo.Donphan can do almost everything Lando-T can,acting as a nice physical wall dealing with Terrakion and Tyranitar and also adding Rapid Spin.I don't know what kind of set would fit this slightly unusual stall team so I leave that for you to decide if you take the suggestion.

Good Luck and I hope I helped.

Hi there! its nice to see some stall team, i really like them ;)

The first thing i noticed looking at your team is that you lack of the rapid spinner. You can not really have a stall team without a spinner or a magic bouncer, and the same is for this.

A quick fix that would not change the team much is to put Tentacruel instead of Gyarados. Gyarados is not that good as it was back in dp, rest is also now a very bad recovery move, once you have rested you will never find a chance to wake up since u have to stay in for 3 (or 2, i dont remember) turn.
tentacruel also checks the same things that gyarados checked, mainly Fighting and water types. Tentacruel also has an another importan role for stall teams, its the best toxic spikes user right now.

Moving on little fix, i think that you can try Chesto berry on Landorus-t. If you really think that toxic is needed to catch bulky water in predict, you can put rest instead of Stealth rock, and put them on Blissey. Chesto berry its like the best recovery move for pokemon that does not have roost or recover, its really good and underrated.
Blissey is also a way better to setup stealth rocks, because it has opportunity to set up them against any tipe of time, particularly against rain and sun team. You should run them instead of wish.
As for Skarmory, i know that you have Celebi to check breloom, but Brave bird still should be best choice to murder Virizion, Breloom or Heracross, you already have toxic on Blissey, Heatran, Landorus and toxic spikes on tentacruel so i think its a waste; brave bird can also help against Celebi, Keldeo and Volcarona thanks to sturdy, or just to get some random damages against Forretress or things like that.

other than that, i dont see any evident weakness, it should be solid now, gl with your stall team :x

Tentacruel set:


Landorus set:


Tl;dr
Brave Bird > toxic
Stealth rock > wish

you dont need a spinner and you don't need a ghost, but the problem with this team is that starmie can spin on you like 24/7 and this is simply because you have no way of killing it. you need a grass move on celebi to alleviate this. tenta can be forced out by landorus, starmie cannot be forced out by anything on this team.

You have an interesting and nice team here!

For suggestions, my first opposition is to your 4 Pokemon having Toxic. Why not StoneEdge/HP(Ice)>Toxic on Landorus-T? If it ever came down to your Landorus-T being your last Pokémon, what are you gonna do to an opposing Salamence? Or Gliscor? Or opposing Landorus? They could've already set up enough go sweep in the time it takes Toxic to KO. And Gliscor completely walls... This simple change helps not be comletely walled in these types of situations.

Mixed w/ HP(Ice):


I hope that this helps. Good luck w/ the team! :)

Not a bad team you have here, and kudos for giving stall a go in this offensive metagame. As others have mentioned, there's a few issues with the team and of those main issues is no spin-blocker and, from my experience with Stall, that's pretty essential.

Therefore I suggest running Specially Defensive Jellicent > Celebi. This will give you a spin-blocker and you'll still be able to check many of the threats Celebi did. However, you mentioned that Celebi was your main check to Amoonguss and Breloom, so, obviously, you'd lose that. Therefore, I'd suggest changing Gyarados to a Psychically Defensive SubDD Set. This should handle both of those Pokémon fairly well, and I guess you don't need to run DD if you don't want to. Finally, I'd suggest Taunt > Toxic on Skarmory since it gives you at least something to protect from hazards, even if it isn't great.

ToF said:

you dont need a spinner and you don't need a ghost, but the problem with this team is that starmie can spin on you like 24/7 and this is simply because you have no way of killing it. you need a grass move on celebi to alleviate this. tenta can be forced out by landorus, starmie cannot be forced out by anything on this team.

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Yes because Deoxys-D and Forretress can't set up on most his team. If you're using a stall team you're going to switch out alot and without a spinner you can't do it too much with hazards out. Ferrothorn and Skarmory also set up on alot of his team. and Giga drain on celebi will not help the starmie case because starmie just has to spin and switch.

Masterclass said:

Yes because Deoxys-D and Forretress can't set up on most his team. If you're using a stall team you're going to switch out alot and without a spinner you can't do it too much with hazards out. Ferrothorn and Skarmory also set up on alot of his team. and Giga drain on celebi will not help the starmie case because starmie just has to spin and switch.

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ever heard of a thing called double switching? i used a very similar team to this and it does fine, you have to do this thing called use your brain and predict the spinner switch from the opposition.

oh you're defending him ''harsha''. He was the one claiming i had no brain. and haven't heard of a thing called double switching.

he thinks he can double switch 5 pokemon incase a starmie comes in(since it can come in on basically anything but celebi). The team has no spinner so with hazards out i wonder how many switch-ins he can get.

I just wish you didn't deleted bro, It just feels right to be right and sound like an ''ass'' at the same time. but there's no justice as to why his post wasn't deleted. I guess you two have a thing going on ;).. cute.

ToF said:

ever heard of a thing called double switching? i used a very similar team to this and it does fine, you have to do this thing called use your brain and predict the spinner switch from the opposition.

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Response to ToF


I'm going to give some suggestions for the team. Pick and choose what you like, as in the end, all of the changes you make are up to you! By the way, I really enjoy seeing stall teams in such an offensive metagame. :)

I suggest that you run the Toxic Spikes set on Tentacruel > Gyarados as so you have somebody to spin and lay down Toxic Spikes, as so four of your pokes no longer need to run Toxic, freeing up more offensive or support options. For example, you could then run Heal Bell > Toxic on Blissey, as status conditions, especially Toxic, murder the stalling capabilities of your team. Also, you could run Will-O-Wisp > Toxic on Heatran, and then easily stall out a crippled physical attacker with Skarmory.
Tentacruel set


Another suggestion would be to run Ferrothorn > Celebi, as I think he has better defensive synergy with the team, (draws out Fire moves to be sponged by Heatran, tanks Water moves aimed at Heatran/Landorus-T, etc., but isn't week to ice as Landorus-T is, and is neutral to the Ground moves that will inevitably be aimed at Heatran) The set I recommend is just the Standard set with Power Whip over Spikes, as Skarmory can already set up Spikes. Ferrothorn provides a little bit more of an offensive presence with its dual STABS and can stall out pokes with Leech Seed/Leftovers recovery and Leech Seed/Toxic Spikes/Iron Barbs damage.
Ferrothorn set


Lastly, though Jellicent could work on this team, I think that a Sub-Disable Gengar would work all right too, as it can take the Fighting moves aimed at Blissey, Heatran, and Ferrothorn as well as spinblock with its handy Ghost typing. Furthermore, SubDisable often forces switches, which you can easily take advantage of with multiple entry hazards.
Gengar set


All right then, hope I helped! Good luck!

Tof, you can not double switch into a deoxys-d to avoid stealth rocks and 2 or 3 layer of spikes. You just cant... And while its true that other spikes users are fucked by Heatran, for an offensive team Stealth rock are enough to win against this team. Volturn comes to mind for example, a simple combination of rotom-w+scizor will make you switch frequently; you can send celebi in or blissey to a rotom-w, then scizor come in and you have to switch again, its just a question of time that you will have you pokemon dead, only thanks to stealth rocks.

Just posting to say that this used to be basically the standard stall in late DPP. Instead replace landorus with rotom-heat. pretty good team i guess but i cant see you beating any time of rain stall team. Other than that feel like this team is outdated but could still work. You defintely need a ghost to make this a full stall team though. I would switch gyarados for jellicent. You get another defensive mon that is better in this metagame than gyarados and a spin blocker that can spin block anything.

Neliel Tu Oderschvank said:

Tof, you can not double switch into a deoxys-d to avoid stealth rocks and 2 or 3 layer of spikes. You just cant... And while its true that other spikes users are fucked by Heatran, for an offensive team Stealth rock are enough to win against this team. Volturn comes to mind for example, a simple combination of rotom-w+scizor will make you switch frequently; you can send celebi in or blissey to a rotom-w, then scizor come in and you have to switch again, its just a question of time that you will have you pokemon dead, only thanks to stealth rocks.

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Rotom-W + Scizor would destroy Celebi if it checks the Volt attack. All Scizor has to do is Pursuit. Against Chansey should have to switch out regardless. Changing Celebi for Ferrothorn could work.