My first RMT (Sun Based)

Afew weeks back I decided I wanted to try out competitive pokemon battling. I'm not really sure what exactly brought me to this idea, but nevertheless I ran with it. I came across smogon and was shocked at the seemingly impenetrable complexity of it all.

"Tiers?", I said, "You don't just show up and battle?"
"EV taining does what?"
"Sweeper? I hardly know her!"

At first I was intimidated, feeling that I would never be able to break into competitve battling if I couldn't figure out all these terms and rules. However I was able to, in time, get a basic grasp of how battling worked, what strategies pay dividends, and how to go about preparing for battle. Then came the hardest question of all, what kind of team do I build? Do I go with an all out offensive barrage or play it defensive? It was during this brainstorm that I came across a few weather based RMTs. Weather was the answer, now which one? Sand and rain seemed to mainstream (I feel like a hipster loser just typing that...). That was when I made the decision to go with a sun based weather team for my first ever competitive battling team. And so the team building process began...

Edit #1: Ev spread and moveset changes only. Listed in RED

Edit #2: New team member and additional thoughts on current team added. Listed in BLUE

A warning to experienced players, uncontrollable laughter may grip your very soul as you read about some of the more... unfortunate iterations of the team, and my thinking behind them. You have been warned...
EDIT: Now also includes list of retired team members






Doppler (Ninetales) @ Leftovers | Drought
Calm | 248 hp / 252 SpDef / 10 SpAtk
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar
- Sunny Day

My faithful sun-bringer. Mr. Doppler Radar is pure special defense to capitalize on one of his's better base stats and increase survivability, as the offensive parts of the team perform much better under the sun. Will-O-Wisp at least hinders, if not cripples whatever sweeper/revenge killer wants to switch into him. Flamethrower is here for reliable STAB and hits plenty hard under the sun and I'd rather not risk a Fire Blast miss in a critical moment. Energy ball is here for coverage and hits other inducers for some decent damage. I originally had Solarbeam, but it seemed to predictable and obvious so It was replaced with Will-O-Wisp. Also, getting forced into that charge turn is no fun at all. Sunny day is in to fill a moveslot until I think of something better.The changes to my Ninetales come as a combination of suggestions given to me in this thread. I went with BlackLight's suggested move set and kept Sunny Day in it because that seems like the cool thing to do. Letting go of Energy Ball has been tough but his set is really working so far. EV spread courtesy of undisputed (mostly). As he currently sits Doppler does exactly what he's supposed to do, set up sun, status and damage what he can, and above all SURVIVE.This Ninetales setup is actually really good at countering water types, especially special attackers. Sun halves the damage of their water moves, and the max SpDef investment means he loses very little HP. A fire type that sort of checks water types.... interesting.


Retired: 45-RPM (Hitmontop)
While hitmontop is a decent rapid spinner he just wasn't getting the job done. Therefore, he has been retired and Mud Tire (Donphan) has taken over rapid spinning duties.


NEW TEAM MEMBER!

Mud Tire (Donphan) @ Leftovers | Sturdy
Impish | 252 hp / 252 Def / 4 Speed
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Ice shard
- Stealth Rock

Hitmontop was an average at best rapid spinner. Donphan is better, WAY better. While Donphan's special bulk is close to nonexistant, his massive defensive stat, and counterattacking potential more than makes up for it. Rapid spin and stealth rock are obvious choices, keep rocks on my opponent's side, not mine. Since my team has at least two members with a weakness to Stealth Rock (one at x4) keeping rocks off my side is beneficial, but not an absolute necessity. Earthquake is, of course the stab move of choice, and will deter anything weak to ground type moves from staying in. Ice Shard is absolutely fantastic to have on a slow pokemon like Donphan. It gives him the ability to check not just dragons, but alot of other things simply by packing a priority move. Earthquake + Ice Shard has great overall coverage as well, meaning that a taunted Mud Tire is not a flat Mud Tire.


Mothra (Volcarona) @ Life Orb | Flame Body
Timid | 4 SpDef / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain

I should have named this guy Mothra....
Quiver Dance Volcarona is Quiver Dance Volcarona. Volc's huge base SpAtk stat means that one boost can ruin your day, and 2 can ruin your whole week. The extra HP investment is here to help ensure that Luna survives long enough to get a quiver dance off, but if the sun is up it really isn't necessary. EDIT: HP EV's removed Sun-boost+STAB Fiery Dance absolutely destroys and has a chance for a boost to SpAtk, which I love. Bug buzz is a must have because it just is. Giga Drain is the wild card move here. It helps Volcarona function in the other weathers and hit unsuspecting water/rock/ground etc. types for huge damage AND recover back hp lost from the life orb. Name now officially changed to Mothra :) EV and nature changes courtesy of Dr. Ciel. This new spread lets me out speed alot, and the investment in speed over spatk is paying dividends. "You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different." -Magneto


Reginald (Infernape) @ Choice Scarf/Band | Blaze
Jolly/Adamant | 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 SpAtk
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-Turn
- Stone Edge/Mach Punch

Reginald the monkey actually has 2 builds depending on how I'm feeling before battle. One set runs a scaf and jolly nature, the other banded with adamant nature. The scarfed version gets stone edge for coverage, and the banded variant gets Mach punch for priority. Both essentially fill the same role that Sawsbuck used to, kinda. U-turn allows for scouting, Close Combat gives me a very powerful fighting type stab for dealing with rock, steel, and ice types, andFlare Blitz destroys everything that doesn't resist it, especially with the sun boost. Reginald is currently facing very stiff competition for his team spot from scarfed heatran, courtesy of undisputed. This infernape is holding onto his spot a lot tighter than hitmontop is, so his spot on the team is, for now, secure.As of edit #2 I am seriously testing replacements for Reginald. He is good, but not exactly versitile. Currently the leading candidates for the position are Heatran and Landorus-T, both packing a choice scarf.


Orchid (Lilligant) @ Life Orb | Clorophyll
Modest | 60 Def / 252 SpAtk / 196 Speed
- Healing Wish
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power {Rock}
- Sleep Powder

Lilligant is my swiss army knife. She has enough speed and SpAtk under the sun to out speed and damage, if not KO what she needs to with leaf storm or HP Rock. She can also play defense/stall with sleep powder and lefty's. And she can make the ultimate sacrifice and bring one of her teammates back from the brink. Nature and EV changes courtesy of Dr. Ciel. With the current setup she's fast enough to get off the sleep powder on something that leaf storm doesn't hurt, or take a hit if she really has to. Also, just an FYI for people who don't know, Lilligant's life orb + STAB Leaf Storm destroys EVERYTHING that doesn't resist it, it's incredible. I am so glad to have found a setup that makes Lilligant more viable on the team. I mean look at her, she's adorable! Who wouldn't want a Lilligant on their team? Also, I see that alot of people are concerned about this team's ability to counter dragons. While I don't possess hard counters to the likes of dragonite, salamence etc. Lilligant gives me something of a check. With the chlorophyll boost she outspeeds positive natured everything, and even certain scarfers (EDIT: In the sunlight Lilligant outspeeds anything that isn't boosted, and all positive natured choice scarfers of base speed 110 or under.). With the speed advantage she can crush them with an HP rock, or put them to sleep and then crush them with an HP rock. I know this only works for the part flying types, but if they are asleep I get a (sort of) safe switch into Mothra (Volcarona) or Ghidorah (Hydreigon) who can hit hard with Bug Buzz, Draco-Meteor etc. Lilligant is proving to be more and more valuable with every battle. Words cannot express how great she has been with this Modest + Life orb build.


Ghidorah (Hydreigon) @ Life Orb | Levitate
Modest | 4 hp / 252 Speed / 252 SpAtk
- Draco Metor
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Roost

There's a reason Godzilla needed backup every time he battled with King Ghidorah. He's one bad dude. Wtih a SpAtk stat that most pokes would publicly humiliate themselves for and a movepool as deep as an ocean trench, there is nothing Hydreigon can't do. Decent natural bulk allows him to take a hit if he needs to, but he usually won't need to since his 98 base speed is pretty freaking sweet. Draco meteor hits everything for massive damage, even after the stat drop the first one brings. The sun boost essentially negates the -2 drop from Draco and lets this three headed monster keep dishing out the pain. Focus blast is primarily in for coverage and helping make sure that anything and everything thinks twice before switching in. He has also been known to run choice scarf or specs sets with u-turn instead of roost, but I think those days are behind him as this life orb+roost set crushes EVERYTHING. As of edit #1: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.Edit #2: Still ain't broke. still not fixing it.


Well, there's my team (for now). Rate away smogon! Feel free to list off:

Any threats that you can think of that I haven't accounted for somehwere.

New builds for current team members.

New team members.


And now I have to go try and be productive because I just spent an hour on this thing...



New Team Member Tryouts:

Scarfed Heatran per undisputed's recommendation

Scarfed Jirachi per honus's recommendation

Sacrfed Landorus-T per Darth Missigno's recommendation

Concerning the tryouts:

Heatran and Landorus-T are neck and neck as of post time for taking over Rginald's place as choice scarf user.

Scarfed Jirachi (aka MakeAWish) has been good, but not great in testing. He is still in the running but will most likely be delegated to the PC box and used on other teams.


Edits to movesets and EV spreads will be listed in colored text. If a member of the team is removed/replaced they will be put in a spoiler thingy, like so:



Importable


Threats

Hey man, nice team.

Thanks for the rate Dr Ciel!

I like the idea of putting roar on Ninetales but Im going to put it over sunny day rather than energy ball, as it has saved me on more than one occasion. The EV spread you suggested for him looks cool, Im definitely going to play around with that.

Same thing with volcarona's EV spread suggestion. Im kind of hesitant to go with no hp EVs as they have saved me in the past, but I can also think of several instances where timid nature and max speed would have been more helpful, so that will also be given a test drive.

As for lilligant, my results with the ev spread above have been.... lackluster. So much so that her spot on the team may actually be up for grabs but I really like her move set and I want her to work so your suggested spread will be implemented IMMEDIATELY and closely observed.


Also: does enyone have suggestions for new team members?

Hey Tombst0ne, nice sun team you have here!

I think this team is pretty solid for the most part but there is one suggestion I would like to make that I think could really improve your team. That switch would be to use xatu over your current hitmontop. This will help in a few ways. First, unlike hitmontop or espeon, xatu gets reliable recovery in the form of roost. This allows him to stay around longer and keep rocks off of the field. This also kind of gives you a way to put hazards on the opposing side of the field and protects your sweepers from status. Also, xatu gets access to heat wave which, under the sun, can do massive damage against threats such as scizor ferrothorn, basically anything weak to fire. He is extremely fun and effective to use under the sun and you should really try him out.

Anyways hope I helped and good luck with the team! Here is the set:


Didn't see your above post while typing this initially and i would advise against your idea of taking away sunny day on ninetales. This is arguably ninetales' most important move because it prevents ninetales from having to constantly switch in and out making it much easier to keep sun up and rain off of the field.

Hey!

I like your creativity with this Sun team. I think you've done a good job getting away from the "standard," and I like your choices on Lilligant and Hydreigon. Not commonly seen, nor using common sets. The biggest thing that pops out at me is that you still lose to a lot of common Sun counters. Pokemon like Latios or Heatran, which Sun teams tend to struggle against, will prove to be a major pain. Latios just KOes whatever it wants, and you have no way to KO Heatran before it does significant damage.

My first suggestion for you is to change Infernape to Scarf Heatran. Although Scarf Infernape is kind of a cool set (similar to Darmanitan), I think Heatran is a better choice for your team. Heatran is much more powerful, and it retains that excellent Fire STAB. Additionally, Heatran has a great utility Steel typing, which is convenient if you need a pivot Pokemon. Otherwise, Heatran will be a great revenge killer for you as well as a psuedo-sweeper with Scarf Fire Blast. I can count on one hand the number of Pokemon that can take a Heatran Fire Blast in the Sun. Sun Teams have a lot of difficulty beating Scarf Heatran because they can't trap it with Dugtrio and it's just so powerful. For moves, go for Fire Blast / Earth Power / Dragon Pulse / Filler. For the Filler, you can choose whatever you think is best. Options include HP Grass, Stealth Rock, Overheat, Flamethrower, and Hidden Power Ice off the top of my head.

Next, I think Lilligant is an excellent stroke of creativity, but I think you need to get something different out of that slot. I suggest you try out LO Mamoswine instead. It's a very good Dragon check, and Dragons give Sun teams a lot of grief. It also threatens Sand teams, which are the biggest force in the metagame right now. Additionally, Mamoswine gives you a great Pokemon to set up Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is almost imperative these days to limit the number of switch-ins for the other team. I think you will be playing "behind" in a lot of matches without it. You'll be doing all the predicting while your opponent has a lot of lee-way to just switch out and try again later.

Third, just a small thing, but I think you should have Foresight on Hitmontop. Foresight is basically the reason to use Hitmontop because you can guarantee yourself some Rapid Spins. Stall and Defensively oriented teams are on the rise after Tornadus-t was banned and Deoxys-D likely to follow, so you need a way to beat Jellicent and Gengar. I would probably remove Toxic on Hitmontop because Sun is usually fast-paced and offensive, and you really don't have time to take full advantage of Toxic.

Minor nitpick: use 248 HP on Ninetales. Odd HP allows you to switch into Stealth Rock more times, and you need to get the most out of Ninetales in every match.

Before I go, I think you have some other avenues to explore with your team. Instead of Hitmontop, you could try Donphan with Stealth Rock. It depends mostly on how much you value that guaranteed Spin. Stealth Rock opens up other slots on your team too, so definitely try it out. Other than that, you could try Venusaur over Lilligant too. If you do, I would advocate a Mix sweeping set with Earthquake. You need some way to combat Heatran before it gets out of hand. EQ Venusaur will get a lot of surprise KOes for sure. Also, you can try Sub-Roost Hydreigon with Roost over Focus Blast and Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor. A little less powerful, but an underrated set nonetheless.

Good luck!

Tombst0ne said:

"Sweeper? I hardly know her!"

Click to expand...

pfffft, lol.

Anyhow, its good to see you've made such a decent team despite being so new. I'm actually really happy you're using Lilligant, its such a versitile poke. Anyhow, onto actual tips. First off, like MCBarrett said, Sunny Day is an incredibly important move for Ninetales. It completely removes any momentum your opponent might have gained by switching in a weather inducer on Ninetales, which is really important for Ninetales. I'm also going to suggest revamping Ninetales a bit. You've given it a very defensive role on your team, but it seems as though it could be using a more defensive moveset to match. I'll suggest making Ninetales change its moves to Lava Plume/Toxic/Roar/Sunny Day. Lava Plume isn't quite as powerful as Flamethrower, but it comes with a nasty %30 chance of burning an opponent. Toxic is Toxic, its incredibly useful for wearing down switch ins (cough use this on Politoed cough). Roar, like Dr. Ciel mentioned, is excellent at forcing random things out and blocking set up sweepers.
The next thing is Hitmontop. I'll back up what undisputed said, Hitmontop needs Foresight on its moveset, as that is what makes it usable. Otherwise, you beg Jellicent to burn you, or for Gengar to set up a Sub while you can't do much of anything.
One last thing, you are rather weak to Dragon types, as you don't have many Pokemon that can deal with them rather well. I could suggest a variety of things here, but I think a good way to deal with them is by changing Bug Buzz to HP Ice on Volcarona. Yes, you lose STAB, but you also get perfect coverage (barring Fire types), and most importantly you can hit Dragons very, very hard with it. Things that walled you before, like Dragonite and Salamence, take a truckload of damage from a +1 LO HP Ice coming off of base 135 Sp Attack. Just a thought, though, its not really that necessary, as the standard set works rather well.
Anyhow, good team. Thumbs up.

BlackLight said:

Ninetales change its moves to Lava Plume/Toxic/Roar/Sunny Day.

Click to expand...

OBJECTION! Flamethrower/Sunny Day/Willo'Wisp/Roar that is all the time I can do for a rate as of now, and that isn't even one, I will edit this when I have the time to give a sufficient rate.

But I think Venusaur would be more useful than lilligant, but that is more or less personal preference.

Some edits to the team have been made! Edits are in the first post in RED.

@Dr Ciel
@undisputed: The new pokes/sets you guys suggested have been hugely helpful so far.

@MCBarrett: That Xatu set is a monster when played correctly. The only issue is that I'm not quite good enough (yet) to always play him correctly. Nevertheless, he is in the running to take over Hitmontop's entry hazard getter-ridder-ofer spot.

@BlackLight: Your suggested moveset for my Ninetales is awesome in the testing that I have done to this point. Also, It' nice to know that people still appreciate a bad pun every now and then.

Just to let you know, Ninetales doesn't even learn Lava Plume. :s

First off: Ninetales can't learn Lava Plume. You're looking for Flamethrower if you want a defensive set.

Anyway, this is an interesting team you have here. As a longtime sun user, I can attest to the usefulness of Lilligant; keep her where she is.
If you want a really good Scarfer, I'd recommend replacing Infernape with the following set:
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Naive Nature
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Your team currently has a pretty big weakness to Lati@s. Landorus can act as a makeshift check to non-Scarf sets, doing a fair chunk of damage with U-turn and being more powerful than Infernape overall. Intimidate makes him a nuisance for physically based enemies, including Tyranitar, Dragonite, and Salamence (all three of which are problematic for this team). Earthquake and Stone Edge have great offensive coverage, smashing several foes that plague sun teams (the big three from before, Volcarona, Heatran, etc.). Hidden Power [Ice] is used to hit Gliscor, who can otherwise wall Landorus to hell and back. The lack of Fighting coverage compared to Infernape is a non-issue if you keep Hitmontop, and Landorus mitigates your team's Ground weakness somewhat. As with Lilligant, I've used him to great success on my sun team; he may be the team's MVP.
tl;dr Landorus-T > Infernape

Good luck, man!

Ah neat, another based RMT.

Anyways this team looks like it might have a hard time with Salamence or Dragonite. It might come down to prediction, but Ninetales, Hitmontop, Volcarona and possibly even Lilligant are all very easy to get a DD up on. After that the +1 Dragon can pretty much plow through the team with Outrage which none of your Pokemon resist, Hitmontop, your most physically bulky member is gonna be taking 54.28% - 64.14% from Max Atk Nite at +0 [so after intimidate] and 54.61% - 64.47% [around the same amount] from +0 Max Atk Mence. Even if they carry Dragon Claw Hitmontop can't really do that much back. Some other threats I noticed are Latias and Hydreigon, as Undisputed mentioned, which can get free switches on stuff like Ninetales and spam unresisted Dragon pulses/Draco Meteors and severely weaken the team. These Pokemon are able to come in on Ninetales and something will take heavy damage every time they are able to come in. Trick Room Reuniclus also looks annoying; it hits Hydreigon, Infernape and Hitmontop supereffectively while doing 42.41% - 50.14% to Ninetales, 63.02% - 74.28% to Volc and 92.17% - 108.9% to Lilligant with Psychic. I think these problems can all be solved by trying out a Jirachi as a Scarfer over Infernape. Jirachi has a great speed tier for revenge killing and has Ice Punch to dispel any Dragons easily, Dnite and Mence more easily because of their 4x weakness. Jirachi also takes care of Latios for the most part, although it may have to be a bit more cautious with Hydreigon [although he can revenge ko it nonetheless]. Jirachi also provides an answer to Reuniclus for this team as well, thanks to Iron Head and its typing. As for some other objective changes I reccomend trying Will O' Wisp>Toxic on Ninetales. WoW is fantastic on Ninetales not because it ruins TTar and Hippowdon but also discourage them from switching in on Ninetales directly to come try and change the weather, making it easier to keep sun up and giving you the advantage. Finally I really think it might be better to try a Quiver Dancing Lilligant and also use HP Fire over HP Rock, because Scizor and Jirachi/other steels and grass completely the eat the set otherwise, which makes Lilligant a lot easier on the Opponent. Quiver Dancing Lilligant is actually pretty fanastic and proves much more threatening than your LO Version, especially because it uses Giga Drain over Leaf Storm and doesn't lose any SpA boost. Other than that it might be nice to try out Donphan, I'm not too sold on Hitmontop as a quality spinner but good luck nonetheless.

Change Summary:

Ninetales:
Toxic->Will-O'-Wisp

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SpAtk)
- Iron Head
- U-Turn
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch / Trick

Lilligant @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Clorophyll
EVS: 60 Def / 252 SpAtk / 196 Spd
Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power (Fire)
- Sleep Powder

ShellShocker said:

Just to let you know, Ninetales doesn't even learn Lava Plume. :s

Click to expand...

Darth Missingno. said:

First off: Ninetales can't learn Lava Plume. You're looking for Flamethrower if you want a defensive set.

Click to expand...

Words cannot describe how stupid I feel right now...

That'll teach me to not do my research before i go changing movesets.

As of this post Doppler's moveset is as follows:
-Flamethrower
-Will-O-Wisp
-Roar
-Sunny day

My use of an illegal move was completely unintentional. I just blindly made the change before doing any research beforehand. If I battled you using this setup then feel free to chalk it up as a win for you, or leave me a vm and we can rematch. Again this mistake was just that, a mistake, made by a rookie player.

A new member of the team has been added!

Donphan has replaced Hitmontop as the rapid spinner for the team, and replacements for Infernape are being more thoroughly tested.

Edit #2 appears in BLUE in the original post.