I think Deoxys-LG and Deoxys-E should be allowed in OU.

footballfanatic

Deoxys-E is the fastest thing in the game, maxing at 504 speed, but has very mediocre attack/sp. attack(95/95). It has a great movepool, but with the low attack...even when scoring a SE hit it might not have enough power to OHKO stuff. It has very low HP, and decent defenses for a sweeper.

Deoxys-LG has base 160 defenses, 10 more than Registeel's base 150, while Registeel has base 80 HP which is way more than Deoxys' base 50. LG suffers from Shuckle syndrome...big defenses but small HP. When compared to Cresselia, which is allowed in OU, Cress can take hits better with its 120 base HP and 130/120 base sp. defense/defense respectively. LG has a good movepool and decent speed/attacks, especially for a wall, but I don't think its better than what's available in OU(Cress, most notably), and DEFINETELY isn't in the uber league with the likes of Lugia and Giratina.

What do you guys think?
 
I am by no means an uber or especially a deoxys expert...

But isn't a large movepool precisely why Mew is uber?
 
cresselia may be able to take hits better, but deoxys can actually do something, namely set up spikes/stealth rock and knock off, and maybe attempt a calm mind sweep with it's superior speed and taunt. Not to mention deoxys-LGs movepool just blows cresselia's out of the water. Cresselia just sits there and counters a few things. It does little to support a team.

saying registeel has "way more HP" is a bit of an overstatement. Remember HP is calculated differently. Registeel only has like 60 more HP than deoxys-LG. 304 vs 360 something. That 10 base defense in both stats goes a way to make up for that.
 
I think the big selling point of Deoxys-D is that it can Recover while Registeel can only Restalk. Calm Mind also doesn't hamper speed like Curse does.
 
Bogmire said:
cresselia may be able to take hits better, but deoxys can actually do something, namely set up spikes/stealth rock and knock off, and maybe attempt a calm mind sweep with it's superior speed and taunt. Cresselia just sits there and counters a few things. It does little to support a team.

saying registeel has "way more HP" is a bit of an overstatement. Remember HP is calculated differently. Registeel only has like 60 more HP than deoxys-LG. 304 vs 360 something, so that is something, but remember deoxys-LG still has 10 more base in both defences.
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Cress can set up Reflect, Toxic/Para, and Calm Mind sweep(which I have done on many occacions). Cresselia neutralizes so many things in the OU it's not even funny, I really think you're understating how good Cress is.

LG has 22 more defenses, and 60 less HP.

To the first poster, the reason Mew is banned is because it has 100 Base across the board and can pass Nasty Plots, Bulk Ups, Calm Minds, etc.
 
footballfanatic said:
Cress can set up Reflect, Toxic/Para, and Calm Mind sweep(which I have done on many occacions). Cresselia neutralizes so many things in the OU it's not even funny, I really think you're understating how good Cress is.

LG has 22 more defenses, and 60 less HP.

To the first poster, the reason Mew is banned is because it has 100 Base across the board and can pass Nasty Plots, Bulk Ups, Calm Minds, etc.
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I never understated how good cress is, deoxys-L does all those things cresselia does that you just posted btw. It can also cosmic power to become an annoying piece of shit with taunt so nothing can phaze it. Really outside of levitate deoxys-L just does everything cress does better plus more. similar to garchomp>flygon, the only thing flygon does better is levitate which is same in this case.
 
Deoxys-S is at the edge of being Uber or OU...

Deoxys-S an awesome revenge killer and attacker... it can run Choice Specs / Life Orb / Choice Band and still be able to outspeed things like Choice Scarf Heracross. Although it isn't anything gamebreaking due to its attacking power that massive Speed stat allows it to use Choice Band / Specs without gaving to worry about Scarfers as much and it gets a somewhat noteable Psycho Boost attack.
 
I think the main reason these forms of Deoxys are banned from Standard play, is that Deoxys-A is a standard uber. It would be weird and confusing to only let certain variants of a pokemon into OU
 
cornflake pk said:
Why on earth do we keep having these discussions?

Can't you see they don't get anywhere, and they get locked? =/
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Usually that only happens when a topic reached its conclusion and then it just goes in circles. There is still some debate on deoxys I suppose. My suggestion is to follow closely to the shoddy forums.
 
footballfanatic said:
Some Damage calcs: CB Jolly Weavile is a guaranteed 2HKO with Night Slash and Scarf Cross Megahorn is a guaranteed 2HKO.
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Well duh, one of them is boosted by choice band and one has 120 bp. And they're both supereffective. I fail to see what your point is, it's like you want an invincible wall or something.
 
And we give a damn what you think why...?

This has been debated to death. If you wish to discuss something, bring up something new that hasn't been thrown into a meat grinder already.
 
Bogmire said:
Well duh, one of them is boosted by choice band and one has 120 bp. And they're both supereffective. I fail to see what your point is, it's like you want an invincible wall or something.
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I'm making a case for LG being OU, and to do that, I'm showing it gets easily taken out by 2 common OU sweepers.

Cresselia, on the other hand will NEVER get 2HKO'd by a CB Weavile Night Slash.
 
504 speed allows it to outrun choice scarfers without using a choice scarf.

I don't think I need to say anything other than that...
 
footballfanatic said:
I'm making a case for LG being OU, and to do that, I'm showing it gets easily taken out by 2 common OU sweepers.

Cresselia, on the other hand will NEVER get 2HKO'd by a CB Weavile Night Slash.
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So what? Did you know Giratina gets 2HKOed by specsgar shadow ball? Impossible! Maybe it should be OU now =/
 
footballfanatic said:
Deoxys-E is the fastest thing in the game, maxing at 504 speed, but has very mediocre attack/sp. attack(95/95). It has a great movepool, but with the low attack...even when scoring a SE hit it might not have enough power to OHKO stuff. It has very low HP, and decent defenses for a sweeper.

Calm Mind + possible Recover + Special attacks (does it get boltbeam?)

Deoxys-LG has base 160 defenses, 10 more than Registeel's base 150, while Registeel has base 80 HP which is way more than Deoxys' base 50. LG suffers from Shuckle syndrome...big defenses but small HP. When compared to Cresselia, which is allowed in OU, Cress can take hits better with its 120 base HP and 130/120 base sp. defense/defense respectively. LG has a good movepool and decent speed/attacks, especially for a wall, but I don't think its better than what's available in OU(Cress, most notably), and DEFINETELY isn't in the uber league with the likes of Lugia and Giratina.

Unlike Cresselia, Registeel, and Shuckle, Deoxys gets Recover. Not to mention Spikes.

What do you guys think?
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Bogmire said:
So what? Did you know Giratina gets 2HKOed by specsgar shadow ball? Impossible! Maybe it should be OU now =/
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Name something in OU that's weak to Shadow Ball that doesn't get 2HKO'd by specsgar.

Now, I'll name something in OU that's weak to Night Slash but doesn't get 2HKO'd by CB Weavile while LG does: Cresselia.


DawnBringer said:
504 speed allows it to outrun choice scarfers without using a choice scarf.

I don't think I need to say anything other than that...
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Come on now, at least come up with a better arguement than that.

Ninjask outspeeds the fastest commonly scarfed poke in the game, Garchomp, AND has an ability that makes him 50% faster every turn. Plus he can swords dance.
 
Having spent a good bit of time in the realm of Uber stalling, I can tell you that Deoxys-L is one of the best defensive Pokemon in the whole game. With a movepool easily larger than Clefable's (it has access to moves from all 4 forms) and defenses like that it's the ultimate Spiker. Its ability to Toxistall is so great it can take on whole teams at once. Deoxys-L is a defensive beast.

Deoxys-E seems a lot less impressive. Base 95 offensive stats may seem average, but keep in mind that he's outspeeding most Choice Scarf users already and that you can just put Choice Specs on and he becomes too dangerous. If your team doesn't happen to be carrying a priority move (in other words if you're running a stall team or if you're unlucky) then you're basically screwed.

One thing people don't understand is that most Ubers aren't completely and utterly game breaking. But when you think about how they work in OU, you realize that the metagame would have to change to counter one Pokemon. If that's the situation, then that Pokemon should stay in Ubers.
 
footballfanatic said:
Name something in OU that's weak to Shadow Ball that doesn't get 2HKO'd by specsgar.

Now, I'll name something in OU that's weak to Night Slash but doesn't get 2HKO'd by CB Weavile while LG does: Cresselia.
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Er...
252 atk, jolly CB Weavile Night Slash vs Cresselia
standard support 32/252 : 53.98% - 63.50%
standard resstalker 252/108 : 52.70% - 61.94% - just barely missing the guaranteed 2HKO.

Now, ignoring random damage calculations. Deoxys-D's movepool completely dwarfs Cresselia's, and it has a better recovery move. Everything Cresselia can do, save being immune to EQ, Deoxys can do as well and more.
 
Blue Harvest said:
^ He said weak to Shadow Ball. ^

Cresselia with the Ghost resist berry. Maybe Sitrus berry?
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Yeah, that doesn't count.

No one uses Ghost resist berry and Sitrus berry wouldn't have a chance to activate unless the first Shadow ball does more than 75%, in which case, the 2nd shadow ball would KO after the HP recovery, and unless Cress has Psychic, Gengar would easily kill it after the berry was used up and Cress with no Leftovers.
 
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