Why is Manaphy in Ubers?

OGsloane

The title should say: Why is Manaphy in UBERS.
The only reason i can see is hydration- rest combo, but that is pretty hard to pull off in OU where there is no auto rain. She can tail glow, but thats like a special garchomp but weaker (if you know what i mean). She doesn't have the greatest move pool either. So what puts her in Ubers and not OU?
 
Another reason might have been this kind of cenerio.


Late Game Battle Scene.

Trainer 1's Suicune has just got on its 6th Calm Mind.

Trainer 2's Cresselia used Psychic.

Trainer 1's Suicune used Surf Cresselia fainted and Trainer 2 sends out Manaphy.

Trainer 2's Manaphy used Heart Swap.

Trainer 1's Suicune used Surf "its not very effective" that surf did less damage than it would have done to Blissey.

Trainer 2's Manaphy used Grass Knot Suicune fainted.

Trainer 1 is the winner 1,0.
 
All you could really do to Manaphy is Revenge killl it or use the above mentioned pokemon.
That seems exactly like SD Garchomp though who has very few to no counters
 
Now that I think about it, the Blissey's back then ran bold and no Sp.Def Ev's, which isn't what the Blissey's use now, which could make Blissey do even better against it.
 
actually i did not see those posts so i want some more discussion to go on for a little bit

The scenarion with suicune, though a good arguement, is kind of unlikely. Couldn't like a specs t-bolt kill manaphy though or what about like a gyarados. Couldn't a ddancing bulkydos scare off manaphy. I mean i can see manaphy causing some trouble but there's faster pokemon and it can be easily revenge killed no?
 
OGSloane said:
The only reason i can see is hydration- rest combo, but that is pretty hard to pull off in OU where there is no auto rain.
Click to expand...

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Modest
Hydration
252 HP / 236 Def / 36 Speed
-Rain Dance
-Rest
-Surf
-Hidden Power Electric / Ice Beam

One of my favorite Manaphy sets. Manaphy is the best bulky Water I have ever used. Rain Dance not only gives a instant 100% recover move, but also an additional 1.5x boost to Surf. HP Electric is there, because Manaphy is one of the best Gyarados counters out there. Ice Beam can also be used to take down Garchomp/Salamence/Dragonite/other stuff.
 
Dang i forgot that most people play shoddy battle and it is easy to get HP electric. OK, i guess im convinced now. thanks everybody.
 
Then Quagsire counters Manaphy... as does any Specially Defensive Grass Pokemon with a good Grass move (Leaf Storm).

Oh and Abamasnow is literally the perfect counter: Stops Rain, resists HP Electric/Surf, has both Wood Hammer and Energy Ball, and is nuetral to Ice Beam. This is especially true if you switch in on its Rest, making it sleep for 2 turns without Hydration active.

Without Special Attack EVs (going by your above set), Celebi could easily set up on it with Calm Mind.

Hell, without Tail Glow Manaphy is quite easy to counter, provided you have a resist, or a Calm Minder.

Regice can also Amenesia and hit back with Thunderbolt, or Thunder during Rain.
 
"Countering" a bulky water is usually quite easy. The point of a bulky water is to take a hit, threaten the opponent with Ice Beam, then possibly recover off the damage and leave. Although, Abomasnow seems to be a bit of a thorn on Manaphy's side.
 
Additionally, I might suggest Roserade which benefits from Weatherball, and threatens Manaphy with Leaf Storm. This way it keeps the rain for itself (no fire weak), and forces a switch, which could allow it to Sleep Powder the next Pokemon or set-up (Toxic) Spikes.
 
because of the strength already in rain dance (kingdra...) this thing will in my view make that sort of team an overpowered joke, rain is easy enough to set up on a kingdra, smeargle, ludicolo, whatever
 
Manaphy was kept in Ubers due to a very early testing when it first became available way back in 2007. Given the ever-changing nature of the metagame, a test in the future might indeed be warranted.

The rain-rester is decent at best, with auto-sandstorm and hail running rampant, and while making for a good bulky water does not seem overcentralizing at all.

Heart Swap is far too situational to be considered any reason whatsoever to have Manaphy Uber.
The primary threat it poses hasn't even been discussed on here, which is the Tail Glow / Grass Knot / Ice Beam / Surf set - only outright dealt with by Blissey (with either T-wave or CM), Ludicolo, Abomasnow, CMRegice, CMKou, a specific Empoleon set, or bulky waters with Mirror Coat (Milotic, Tentacruel, Mantine).

Nonetheless, a test phase in the summer sometime wouldn't be all that unthinkable.
 
So you mean that Lucario's 70/70/70 defenses and 90 speed compare with Manaphy's 100/100/100 defenses and 100 speed?
 
Extremespeed? And Manaphy doesn't use it's defensive stats on the sweeper. And remember that Lucario can be bred for better IVs, while Manaphy can't.
 
A bulky Pokemon that can sweep would have automatically less counters because of its inherent bulkiness. Lucario can be OHKOed by almost any Earthquake, say, but Manaphy is not OHKOed by almost any Thunderbolt. And Manaphy being faster than Lucario makes it more difficult to outspeed as well. Extremespeed is a good move, granted, but it cannot score a super-effective hit ever and is not STABbed, and moreover Rocks and Steel types take half damage from it and Ghosts take zero.
 
While the idea of having Manaphy in OU is appealing, as it'd bring more Rain Dance teams (as oppossed to facing sand storm after sand storm, and occasionally hail..), if Manaphy has proven too powerful then so be it.

I could see a lot more teams packing Thunder > Thunderbolt if Manaphy was allowed. There are Pokemon that can switch into Manaphy while it Tail Glows (or not care about an unboosted attack, or rain boosted surf..) and threaten back with Thunder thanks to Rain.

Just because Manaphy has a handful of counters (including fast taunters, albeit few will want to be taking Manaphy's unboosted hits..), I don't see the issue (of course, if there's testing maybe I WILL see the issue). There are any number of Pokemon that can only be countered by a select few, just add Manaphy to the list.
 
EvilMario said:
While the idea of having Manaphy in OU is appealing, as it'd bring more Rain Dance teams (as oppossed to facing sand storm after sand storm, and occasionally hail..), if Manaphy has proven too powerful then so be it.

I could see a lot more teams packing Thunder > Thunderbolt if Manaphy was allowed. There are Pokemon that can switch into Manaphy while it Tail Glows (or not care about an unboosted attack, or rain boosted surf..) and threaten back with Thunder thanks to Rain.

Just because Manaphy has a handful of counters (including fast taunters, albeit few will want to be taking Manaphy's unboosted hits..), I don't see the issue (of course, if there's testing maybe I WILL see the issue). There are any number of Pokemon that can only be countered by a select few, just add Manaphy to the list.
Click to expand...

Being forced to go from a 100% accuracy move to a 75% accuracy move for the sake of beating 1 opponent seems pretty over-cetralizing to me. O.o
 
IggyBot said:
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Modest
Hydration
252 HP / 236 Def / 36 Speed
-Rain Dance
-Rest
-Surf
-Hidden Power Electric / Ice Beam

One of my favorite Manaphy sets. Manaphy is the best bulky Water I have ever used. Rain Dance not only gives a instant 100% recover move, but also an additional 1.5x boost to Surf. HP Electric is there, because Manaphy is one of the best Gyarados counters out there. Ice Beam can also be used to take down Garchomp/Salamence/Dragonite/other stuff.
Click to expand...
It has over 510 EVs...

Also using Bold > Modest with some Special Attack EVs give you more stats
Your stats

404 HP / 295 Def / 259 SA / 241 Speed

With Bold

404 HP / 295 Def / 259 SA / 244 Speed
 
Right, that's what I get for not opening up the EV applet before making EV spreads >_<

Thanks Jibaku. However, 36 Speed gives 245 speed, not 241, the defense should've been 222 instead. Basically, the standard Zapdos / Celebi EV spread.
 
I can see why manaphy is in Ubers because it is so powerful, but specs jolteon's thunderbolt does 82-97% damage to a MAX HP/SDef positive SDef nature manaphy, and then you can just priority move it if manaphy kills jolt (Thunder is guaranteed OHKO, if it matters)

More damage calcs (using standard spreads to same manaphy ^):
0CM Raikou T-bolt: 68-80%
1CM Raikou T-bolt: 101-120%
CB Metagross Bullet Punch: 13-15% (eh, ~94% KO w/ Jolt)
Specs Deoxys-E T-bolt: 51-58%
Standard Gengar T-bolt: 37-44% (Timid Scarf same %)
Modest Scarf Gar T-bolt: 41-48%
Specs Gar T-bolt: 56-66%

Remember, this is to MAX HP/SDEF +SDEF nature Manaphy!
 
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