Election 2008, United States

Who would you vote for if the presidential race is held now?

  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 415 72.4%
  • John McCain

    Votes: 130 22.7%
  • Other (Please specify)

    Votes: 28 4.9%

  • Total voters
    573

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
Misty's old thread is, well, old, so here's a new one. Discuss anything pertaining to the 2008 elections in the United States.

Oh, and when discussing issues, use verifiable evidence to substantiate your claims.

Presidential election: Obama v. McCain v. Minor Candidates
This race is probably the one that people are paying the most attention to. Some ideas for discussion are running mates and swing states.

Congressional elections
These receive considerably less attention, but are still important. Feel free to discuss these as well.

Gubernatorial elections
There aren't too many of these this year (only 11), but there are some tight races around.

Resources:
CQ Politics; useful for seeing all the races
Pollster.com; collection of polls

Crass-but-obligatory humor:
Someone made a mistake when gerrymandering Dennis Hastert's former district, shown here.
 
At this point I am undecided as to whom I'll vote for President. Though I'm a registered Republican and have always voted for a Republican as President but this year may change as I'm not sure if I really want to elect an oldest-elected President ever since Ronald Reagan.
 
Neither are that great honestly ;/ but I think Obama's building his campaign on empty promises - the "community service for college" plan comes to mind among others. Of course all of them do somewhat but Obama seems to do that much more than Hillary/McCain did.

Not that I'll be of voting age anyways, I miss the cutoff by a few months.
 
On the issues front, the economic indicators were really bad today - the price of oil jumped $10, while unemployment jumped the most it's ever done in over 20 years.
 
Obama is a terrorist.

EDIT: Although New Jersey is pro-democratic, a lot of people in my area are voting for McCain, sort of surprised me. Also in school we went to some website where you take a test and it tells you which political candidate has the same views as you. I turned out to be a Hillary Clinton. Now, I'd probably vote for Obama then if i could vote.
 
I come from a family that mostly leans Republican, and the area of Minnesota I live in generally leans Republican in recent state senate results (even though majority of the state is obviously leans towards the Democrats). I've grown up with it and it is just the views I tend to agree with more often. I know people argue McCain is pretty much in the middle, but I'm not a hardcore conservative by any means as I see both sides of the issues and lean liberal on certain issues. McCain is where I'll place my vote.

Also, recently in history, Republicans have leaned towards more leniant/lesser tax rates. I'm going to be getting out of college in 2010 and do I want to be keeping more of my own first real money or giving it to taxes? It's the time I'll be starting my life on my own without financial dependence on my parents and I want as much money as I can keep from my salary and not be giving out extra taxes - especially since I'll be getting my first place to live, first car, first real money to be put towards retirement, investments, etc etc. I want to keep as much of my first salaries as I can to have a good start out of college and I think Republicans recent history of lesser taxes would fit my own needs better.
 
Obama is a terrorist.

Oh god please don't start this even if it is in jest.

EDIT: Although New Jersey is pro-democratic, a lot of people in my area are voting for McCain, sort of surprised me. Also in school we went to some website where you take a test and it tells you which political candidate has the same views as you. I turned out to be a Hillary Clinton. Now, I'd probably vote for Obama then if i could vote.
There are some areas of New Jersey that are very conservative; just because a state as a whole leans towards a certain party doesn't mean that it is completely that party at the local level. The Philadelphia and New York City suburbs are quite Republican, as is Cape May due to its older population.
 
Also, recently in history, Republicans have leaned towards more leniant/lesser tax rates. I'm going to be getting out of college in 2010 and do I want to be keeping more of my own first real money or giving it to taxes? It's the time I'll be starting my life on my own without financial dependence on my parents and I want as much money as I can keep from my salary and not be giving out extra taxes - especially since I'll be getting my first place to live, first car, first real money to be put towards retirement, investments, etc etc. I want to keep as much of my first salaries as I can to have a good start out of college and I think Republicans recent history of lesser taxes would fit my own needs better.

Here's the unfortunate truth: Republican tax breaks are usually targeted towards the wealthy. Unless you're coming out of a big-name college with a highly sought-after degree, Republican policies are not likely to benefit you much economically, at least in the near- and middle-term.

"Middle class tax cuts" are the mantra of the Democrats, but they also have to balance that against their tendency to spend a lot and lip service to "fiscal responsibility", plus the fact that any sort of tax hike is likely to be unpalatable no matter who is targeted. On the other hand, Democrats' policies on health care are probably more meaningful to us (I'm assuming the majority of users on this board are middle class or come from middle class households).
 
Paul or Barr.

And if my taxes go down, I really don't give a shit if rich people's taxes go down more.

of course, we should have minimal taxes in the first place.
 
For all of you claiming that you would vote for third party candidates, it is in fact extremely unlikely that you will do so when you actually vote. Most studies indicate that many people choose third party candidates in polls, but most will pick a major party candidate when the vote actually matters, because third party candidates rarely matter in the grand scheme of things (I'm trying to forget Florida 2000, don't bring that up, I'm aware of it) and there likely is a major party candidate that the person hates, which results in the person voting for the other major party candidate to stop the hated candidate from winning.
 
I'll be voting democrat.

I don't like either candidate's ideas about the Iraq war, but fiscally and socially I'm a pretty liberal guy so I'm a bit more in-line with the democrats' policies. I actually would like a raise in taxes, which I know is unlikely with either party, but the chance of Obama doing it is significantly higher than that of McCain.

And what can I say. Obama's a charismatic guy. It's a refreshing change of pace after eight years of Bush.
 
I'll be voting democrat.

I don't like either candidate's ideas about the Iraq war, but fiscally and socially I'm a pretty liberal guy so I'm a bit more in-line with the democrats' policies. I actually would like a raise in taxes, which I know is unlikely with either party, but the chance of Obama doing it is significantly higher than that of McCain.

And what can I say. Obama's a charismatic guy. It's a refreshing change of pace after eight years of Bush.

Yeah, I agree with TAY. I would vote for Barack Obama.
 
yeah, i agree a lot with TAY. although i like Obamas plan for Iraq more than McCains. I honestly dont see why we have been there for as long as we have.
also, one thing i like more about obama is that he said he was going to close down guantanamo, while McCain will keep it open.
 
I am most likely voting third party because my liberal vote does not count in Texas anyway, and I kind of like the libertarian candidate.
 
of course, we should have minimal taxes in the first place.

Right and therefore next to no publically funded services for those on low incomes who will consequently be frozen out of all healthcare, education, and promotional opportunities. It's the best way to create a starved, desperate labour force, increase crime, drastically lower standards of living, ("Oh, but what wonderfully cheap labour! Our own private Asia!") and cement the arrogant rule a mindlessly rich, bloated middle-upper-class, right? American Libertarian politics are horrifyingly utopian and irresponsible.

Obama's fiscal stance still favours richer Americans, but he is socially progressive, which is more than you can say for John "Overturn Roe vs Wade" McCain. If I were an American, my vote would be (wasted) on Obama for that reason alone.
 
Actually Obama's "stance" is fairly progressive - the problem will be when his "stance" hits cold reality and Republican filibusters (barring a lucky showing by Senate Democrats - although he'll need to be careful not to overreach or he'll cost Dems Congress like Clinton did in the 90s).
 
Well, I will also be (literally a week) away from being able to vote, I know my loss will not be in vain because I am fairly certain Obama will win the state of Illinois. I am kind of a liberal that sticks out in a mostly fiscally conservative family. It might seem that pretty much anyone my age would naturally vote for Obama over McCain in my state, but of course, besides having shaken his hand (before he was even a Senator), I vastly prefer Obama simply because of the fact that he will more aptly address the issues our current President has thrust upon us... Soaring energy, oil, and food prices, high unemployment rate, global warming, a corrupt corporate influence, and of course, the fear of being drafted into a war that I have no support for.
 
Right and therefore next to no publically funded services for those on low incomes who will consequently be frozen out of all healthcare, education, and promotional opportunities.

yeah, socialized medicine works great! just ask canadian people.

Education should be merit-based "if you're willing to work for an education you should get it, it shouldn't be handed to you on a platter"

what are "promotional opportunities"


It's the best way to create a starved,

you assume that "low-income" people are "starving". Poor people in Africa are starving. Poor people in America are obese.

increase crime,

Yeah, free market 19th century America was really big on crime.

drastically lower standards of living

Yeah, nothing like the free-market to lower living standards! I mean, living standards in China have gone way down since they abolished that socialism thing!

and cement the arrogant rule a mindlessly rich, bloated middle-upper-class, right?

Okay, you obviously have some grudge against successful people right? Here's a hint - just because person X is rich and person Y is poor doesn't make it a moral outrage that person X is better at making money than person Y. Especially not to the point that you have to steal the productive labor of person X to feed person Y.

European Socialist politics are horrifyingly utopian and irresponsible.

Fixed for you :-)
Soaring energy, oil, and food prices, high unemployment rate, global warming, a corrupt corporate influence, and of course, the fear of being drafted into a war that I have no support for

Er, energy prices are because we're dependent on the Middle East - that's a 30-years in the making problem, not a Bush problem. btw, why aren't we drilling for oil - we have oil, we just want to save some trees (nothing against environmentalism, but not when it's a circle-jerk like it is now)Food prices are up because the morons in Congress tried that ethanol crap and it fucked up everything. And the whole oil thing. (not that we shouldn't find alternative energy sources).

Global warming is complete bullshit. At least in terms of it being horrible for human habitation.

Corporatism is rampant, I'll give you that. But here's the thing - corporations are government-created entities! And because they only have responsibility to their shareholders (and not to the market at large), they get off scot free for human rights violations, etc. Furthermore, their status as governmental entities often shield them from competition in both formal and informal ways.

You're also right about the war as well.
 
I don't think I want to touch that irrational, messy misrepresentation with a fifty-foot pole. Sorry I even weighed in.

God forbid, Rand's pop-psychology has truly fucked some people up.
 
er, I haven't read Rand since I was 15 and I didn't get her. I read Murray Rothbard though.

But seriously, how about you address my points instead of just calling it a "irrational messy misrepresentation"
 
Well your points are messy, but I'll give it a go!

Canadians are like 4th in terms of quality of life. Maybe their healthcare isnt as bad as you think.
I dont think children, especially uneducated children, should be allowed to make a decision as important as whether to be educated. They are kids.. Also I dont think that kids ought to be disadvantaged because their dad is CK.
Overweight people can starve.
Your point about 19th century america is weak. The differences between the 19th century and now go way beyond political philosophies.
China has not become a libertarian country.
Lack of financial success should not be punishable by starvation.
Your European socialism thing is a false dichotomy.
The oil prices soaring thing is not being helped by Bush's war, nor is it being helped by anything else Bush is doing.
I dont think Global Warming is complete Bullshit. It may be exaggerated, but it is going to affect a lot of people in a lot of ways, and some of those will be horrible.

Also for those of you saying "I'm not gonna vote for x cause my vote wont count" your vote will not count whoever you vote for. That being said, if you dont vote (at least if you dont vote and try to use the excuse that your vote is valueless) you are a horrible human being. But I dont see the problem with voting liberal in Texas, I mean you may not win this time, but once you get to certain levels of support then the likelihood of increasing your vote in future elections improves.

Have a nice day.
 
Here's the unfortunate truth: Republican tax breaks are usually targeted towards the wealthy. Unless you're coming out of a big-name college with a highly sought-after degree, Republican policies are not likely to benefit you much economically, at least in the near- and middle-term.

"Middle class tax cuts" are the mantra of the Democrats, but they also have to balance that against their tendency to spend a lot and lip service to "fiscal responsibility", plus the fact that any sort of tax hike is likely to be unpalatable no matter who is targeted. On the other hand, Democrats' policies on health care are probably more meaningful to us (I'm assuming the majority of users on this board are middle class or come from middle class households).

This boondoggle is so old as to be laughable.

Ask a Democrat, any Democrat who they think is wealthy. (Hint: It is never any Democrat with a bloated trust fund, huge asset or inheritance-based wealth or old money, or any of their millionaire voting buddies.)

Some define it as households making more than $200,000. Some define it as households making over $75,000.

Whenever you think of voting Blue, just remember that if you have aren't on public assistance and have a mortgage, spouse, car, job, and children, "the wealthy" is always YOU. I come from a lower-middle class family and both my parents owned their own businesses at one point (My father's went defunct because independent retail packaging and shipping has gone the way of the dinosaur as a business model). Bush's tax cuts helped out their small businesses.

Democrat health care policies are meaningless to "us" if "us" is defined as "reasonably healthy people under the age of 30." Healthy young people do not need huge comprehensive one-size-fits-all health plans paid for by government (e.g. the taxpayer), the most wasteful, innefficient provider possible. What Barack's universal health care plan will do is ensure that all of your money will be transferred to a government slush fund that never goes to where it is needed. See: Social Security, which is already insolvent. When I retire, they will be sending me a bill in the mail instead of a check.

For more examples of Barack's health care plan, simply look north of the US to Canada. The wait list for some procedures is long and many people get sick or die before they get treatment because their appointments get postponed. That's what happens when you ration health care: You get to say you care while people die left and right. Health Care in Canada is top-notch as long as you never get anything worse than a flu. The list of people who go to hospitals in the United States and pay out of pocket for procedures they can't afford to wait for on a Canadian wait list is legion. There are businesses whose entire model is to help sick people over the border and facilitate treatments. Businesses only exist when there is sufficient demand to necessitate them.

City Journal has a good article on it (though CJ is not known for brevity, be warned).

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

Ted Kennedy just had a brain tumor. Although he would probably be treated immediately because he'd be a member of "the elite" in any socialist system, Ted Kennedy as a regular shmoe with a glioblastioma would be dead long before he got his problem addressed under a European or Canadian system. He might not even qualify for treatment because he's over 75 years old with a fatal and extremely aggressive cancer. Thankfully after his stroke he was immediately flown into Mass General and put into a hospital bed. They gave him an MRI and did various other tests to check for possible causes. When he was discussing treatments, he decided to take an aggressive approach and went down to North Carolina to be operated on by the world's best neurosurgeon (that was his reputation, anyway). Next he will have chemo and radiation therapy. He did all this in less than a week.

Ted Kennedy would have gone untreated and likely died a slow and painful death if Barack's preferred health care system was in place. Universal health care benefits the healthy and strong: people who can afford to wait 6-9 months for a procedure. It throws the sick and dying under a bus.

McCain isn't my first choice because of his amnesty-supporting stance and various other liberal boondoggles he's created over the years. That being said Barack is a hopelessly ignorant, naive, and untrustworthy candidate who would, at any other point in Democratic Party history, be considered a joke. He can't keep his story straight on Iran. His own website (and a clip from an early primary debate) says he directly will meet with Armageddonjad without preconditions, but now he says there will be no preconditions without preparations, whatever that means.

Just yesterday he Baracktracked on his remarks at AIPAC because he got a dissaproving letter from Palestine supporters. His entire rolodex is full of racists (Wright, Pfleger), fraudsters(Rezko), and terrorists (Ayers and Dohrn). Regarding his "spiritual advisor" he initially said "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community," then more recently he said "this is not the Jeremiah Wright I knew." He did the same thing after Rezko, his Chicago money bundler, got convicted on 16 counts of fraud. "This is not the Tony Rezko I knew," quoth Obama. Does Obama know anyone he associates with for 2 decades?

Seriously, I didn't vote for McCain as Republican nominee, but the thought of an Obama presidency in comparison is just too horrible to imagine. Obama assosiates with crooks and haters to advance his political career and then turns on them after 20 year relationships as soon as they become a political liability, he's got a dreamland domestic and foreign policy (assuming you can pin him down on one), and his entire political house is built on a sandbar of "New Politics," "Hope," and "Change" when all he's offering is 1930's appeasement and 1960's social policy. He's the perfect combination of Neville Chamberlain and Jimmy Carter.

I ask this as a serious question to everyone voting Blue this year: Aren't you tired of nominating joke candidates for the presidency yet? Even Bill Clinton only won with a pluralilty. I don't think a Democrat has won the presidential office with a majority since Jimmy Carter. To be fair, that's probably because the last Democrat elected by a majority of the population was Jimmy Carter.

Honestly, I want to believe there is hope for the Democrats but they seem to have killed off their Scoop Jacksons, John F. Kennedys, and Harry Trumans and replaced them with Michael Dukakises, Jimmy Carters, and George McGoverns. Joe Lieberman was the last one left standing and they tried to kick him out of Connecticut with blogospehere-loved-nutball Ned Lamont.
 
There are some areas of New Jersey that are very conservative; just because a state as a whole leans towards a certain party doesn't mean that it is completely that party at the local level. The Philadelphia and New York City suburbs are quite Republican, as is Cape May due to its older population.

actually, the Philadelphia suburbs are becoming more and more intelligent by the day. Much more moderate as a whole rather than conservative.
 
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