DP Garchomp

jrrrrrrr

wubwubwub
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The Garchomp analysis is kind of cluttered. There are unnecessary sets, there are options missing, and there are some flaws with it that just don't match up to how today's metagame actually works. On top of that, it was written when it wasn't nearly as common and it just doesn't emphasize the fact that Garchomp is actually really good. I copied and pasted the current Garchomp analysis, then made my edits from there. All of my comments are in <<comments>>. Places where it says <<x is fine>> means that I saw nothing to change in the set that was there in the current analysis, I was just leaving it open for other people to suggest changes to those sets. Since this analysis is really long, im going to break it up section by section and give my comments before each section begins.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/garchomp



<<added comments about how prevalent this set is in OU to make it more up to date>>
<<adding Outrage as an option since it makes it able to 2hko literally everything after an SD and is getting increasingly more common>>
<<making Yache Berry the main item option and removed Leftovers>>
<<My thoughts: this is the most common, most powerful pokemon in OU by a long shot and its analysis should reflect that>>

[SET]
name: Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Outrage / Dragon Claw
move 4: Fire Fang
item: Yache Berry / Life Orb
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>The Swords Dancer is the bread and butter Garchomp set. Without a doubt, this is the most prominent threat in OU. If your team is not prepared for this set with at least two "counters", you will lose an overwhelming majority of your matches.</p>

<p>After one Swords Dance, Garchomp is capable of 2HKOing every single Pokemon in the game. Equipped with a Yache Berry, Garchomp can utilize this fact to its advantage by taking a weakened Ice attack which essentially guarantees that you will KO the opposing Pokemon first. This leaves Garchomp alive as the victor in almost every 1-on-1 case. The combination of Garchomp's Dragon and Ground STAB is resisted only by Skarmory and Levitate Bronzong, but a Fire move in the last slot can easily take care of this problem. Fire Fang is preferred due to the presence of Swords Dance and the fact that it will 2HKO both of the Steel-types that are immune to Ground after an Attack boost, but Fire Blast can be used to hit Skarmory harder without a Swords Dance. Garchomp possesses enormous potential to set up and sweep because of its very high yet underrated defensive stats, which are comparable to Swampert's. Be prepared to see this set very often.</p>



<<combining the sub salac set with the brightpowder set>>
<<My thoughts: adding an entirely different set just for one item change is not worth it, especially since they play essentially the same, and ESPECIALLY because they have the same moveset. You are just trading a better chance at keeping a sub for a speed boost, that hardly qualifies as "playing differently" since its just a style choice.>>

[SET]
Name: SubChomp
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Dragon Claw / Outrage
move 4: Earthquake / Fire Fang
item: BrightPowder / Salac Berry
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to Sand Veil and the ridiculous number of players who use Tyranitar or Hippowdon, all of the work needed to set up SubChomp is done when either one of the two come out. Once a Sandstorm kicks up, Garchomp's evasion is raised to an astounding 20% thanks to Sand Veil (28% with BrightPowder). That's not a pretty picture for your opponent. </p>

<p>BrightPowder Garchomp runs as an old fashioned Swords Dancer. However, since it has such a high Evasion rate during a Sandstorm and a very good Speed stat, it will most likely be able to put up a Substitute and use Swords Dance at least once. Therefore, running maximum Speed is recommended when trying to use this set to its full potential.</p>

<p>Garchomp should probably consider using both of its Ground and Dragon STAB moves in this set. This way, you'll be safe against most Pokémon who resist either type of moves. Fire Fang is listed as an option on the set for a number of reasons. While Dragon / Ground is a great attacking combination, it falls short on a couple of common switch-ins to Garchomp, namely Bronzong and Skarmory. The only Pokemon that resists the Dragon / Fire combination is Heatran, who wouldn't dare switch into Garchomp for fear of Earthquake. Dragon Claw can be used in most situations that call for Earthquake as well. Still, Earthquake is a great option for its higher base power and to complete the dual STAB combination that Garchomp is famous for running, especially if you have Magnezone to take care of the aforementioned Steels.</p>

<p>The choice between natures is a matter of choosing what you need to outspeed. Adamant nature will allow you to be as fast as Scarfchomp after Salac Berry and still has a good deal of power after a few Swords Dances. If you use a Jolly Nature, 60 HP / 248 Atk / 200 Spe is a good EV spread to use. It allows you to outspeed a Modest Choice Scarf Gengar, and the HP EVs allow you to make stronger Substitutes. Unfortunately, it comes with a 10% drop in power over an Adamant nature.</p>

<p>Like most Substitute users, this Garchomp won't enjoy Toxic Spikes on your side of the field so support from either a Rapid Spinner or Magnezone will help this Garchomp immensely. Sandstorm support is almost necessary, as an unfortunate miss by your opponent could spell their demise. As a side note, standard Bronzong, who normally uses 128 Attack EVs with a neutral nature, will not be able to break Garchomp's Sub if Reflect is up.</p>

<p>Even though BrightPowder can do some good, Salac Berry is more useful overall and requires less team support. If you are using Salac Berry, it is advisable to use an HP IV of 30 so that Salac Berry activates upon your third Substitute, giving you the same Speed as a Scarfchomp. From there, just use your two attacks to sweep. It should be noted that if your third Substitute happens to survive due to your opponent missing, resist the urge to Swords Dance again. Keeping the last Substitute up will foil an opponent who relies on priority moves to KO your weakened Garchomp, and allow you to finish off their team.</p>




<<choice band set is fine although i was considering adding an explanation of how its probably the best set for use in ubers play>>



<<adding DC as an option, added sentence about DC at the end>>
<<added Jolly as an option, added sentence about Jolly vs Adamant>>
<<My thoughts: Dragon Claw really needs to be an option on this set, it gives useful STAB without the obvious drawbacks of Outrage>>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Dragon Claw / Stone Edge
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Choice Scarf Garchomp makes a great revenge killer and Choice Scarf user in general. It's still very dangerous with that sky-high Attack stat and two STAB moves of high base power. An Adamant nature gives Garchomp the most attacking potential and works well with Choice Scarf, but a Jolly nature can be useful if you want insurance against Deoxys-S, Modest Choice Scarf Gengar or other Garchomp. Outrage is your main attack here, and you don't have to worry as much about being locked in because you immediately outspeed everything without a Choice Scarf. </p>

<p>As said above, this Garchomp gets good use out of being a revenge killer—if you send it in on something partially weakened, your opponent has to choose between losing what they have out, or sending something else in to take two Outrage hits. This set's main problem is that its main moves get walled by things like Skarmory and Gliscor, reducing its revenge-kill effectiveness. In the last moveslot, Toxic is an option if you find yourself struggling to beat some of Garchomp's best counters, most notably Hippowdon, Gliscor and Cresselia. All three of those Pokemon do not like being Poisoned, and you will have a much easier time defeating them if they are constantly trying to recover lost HP. If you can manage to get Garchomp out and if your team really needs the support, you can always use Stealth Rock in the last moveslot before switching back out. Not only do you get the benefit of one of the best support moves in the game, but you can play mind games with your opponent by tricking them into thinking your Garchomp is using a more defensive build.</p>

<p>Crunch may be weaker than Outrage even if it's super effective, but it helps you hit things like Cresselia early on in the match without getting yourself locked in to Outrage; Stone Edge is mostly filler but it helps against bulky Gyarados and Zapdos. Be careful about opening up with Outrage too early as Starmie isn't OHKOed all the time by it unless you have Stealth Rock on the field; the same goes for other, more durable counters. Dragon Claw is also an option, since it provides a reliable extra STAB move without the obvious drawback of locking yourself into Outrage.</p>


<<changed EV spread from 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe>>
<<removed small phrase about the slightly lower speed>>
<<My thoughts: those 16 Atk EVs might have been useful at one point, but there is no reason to not use max Speed on Garchomp. What point is there in using Draco Meteor if you can't even hit the most common Dragon weakness in OU?>>

[SET]
name: Chain Chomp
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Draco Meteor
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Life Orb
nature: Naughty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Meet Chain Chomp, the "ridiculous surprise" of Diamond and Pearl, which follows in Tyraniboah's footsteps. The whole concept looks like a joke at first, with the EVs suggesting a focus on Garchomp's mediocre 80 Special Attack instead of that feared 130 Attack. The reason is Draco Meteor, an insanely overpowered move that gets STAB and kills many of Garchomp switch-ins within one or two turns. Hippowdon, Starmie, Slowbro, Weezing, and Donphan are a few examples of fairly common Garchomp switch-ins that are devastated by Draco Meteor. By supporting Garchomp with Stealth Rock you guarantee a KO on all of these as long as they go no further than maxing HP and 0 Special Defense EVs. Add Sand Stream to the mix for an increased evasion and more residual damage and you've got a killer surprise on your hands.</p>

<p>Arguably the best use of this set is as following: first, use Swords Dance. Swords Dancing may lure an opponent into a false sense of security, as nothing tells them you are not running the standard physical sweeper, whereas any other move would give away the surprise. Yes, Earthquake as well, since it would do less damage than a usual Life Orb Garchomp would do. After Swords Dancing you should take note of what your opponent brings in to counter Garchomp. If it is one of these aforementioned counters, Draco Meteor them on your next switch-in and you should be able to knock them out next round. Note that Draco Meteor will usually do more against those than Earthquake, even after the Special Attack drop. This version of Garchomp will not last as long and not sweep as much as the others because of Life Orb's recoil, and the -Special Defense nature, but it does provide excellent support for a secondary physical heavy-hitter to come in and take advantage of the weakening or the killing of your opponent's Hippowdon, Slowbro, or whatever their main physical wall is.</p>

<p>Fire Blast is there because it nearly always kills Skarmory and 2HKOs Bronzong, who you will need some slight prediction against. Earthquake will almost always OHKO Blissey after a Swords Dance, and even without a Swords Dance, 2HKO Blissey in Sand Stream, unless she has at least 709 HP and max Defense, in which case she stands a chance to live. More Attack EVs can be used for a guaranteed 2HKO, but generally this EV spread is more efficient.</p>


<<Bulky Sweeper set is fine>>


<<combined Sub Salac Sweeper with BrightPowder for reasons already mentioned>>


<<removed Outrage as an Other Option since I added it as an option and it is already on most sets>>
[Other Options]
<p>Garchomp doesn't have many other useful options in terms of moves. It may be the most dangerous threat in OU, but it's not very versatile.</p>

<p>Given that Garchomp has better overall defenses than Swampert, running a defensive set that utilizes Rest and Sleep Talk is a viable option. If you do that, Outrage is highly recommended since not only does it have 120 base power before STAB, if it is chosen by Sleep Talk you will not be locked in and prevented from switching. Unfortunately for those who are interested in using a defensive Garchomp, the only support/defensive moves Garchomp has are Roar and Stealth Rock.</p>



<<changing EV recommendations to max speed in all cases. There are no cases where an extra 3 HP or Atk will be worth losing every match-up against opposing Garchomp>>

[EVs]
<p>There really isn't any reason to not have maximum speed investment. Putting 12 EVs into HP or Atk may be tempting since you will still be outspeeding all base 100s, but there are no cases where an extra 3 HP, Attack or Defense will be worth losing every match-up against opposing Garchomp.</p>

<p>Adamant nature is recommended for Choice Scarf sets. 224 Speed EVs means you will outrun Adamant Tyranitar even after it Dragon Dances twice. Maxing Speed allows you to tie with other Choice Scarf Garchomp, while dropping your Speed will allow to use more defensive EVs if you wish. You can go as low as 280 Speed and still outrun most Choice Scarf Porygon-Z and almost everything else that carries a Choice Scarf.</p>

<p>Chain Chomp requires a Naughty nature; max Special Attack, use 240 Speed EVs if you are not concerned about other Garchomp, and you can put the remaining 16 in Attack in order to guarantee an OHKO on Blissey after a Swords Dance. This is to ensure that Draco Meteor provides the kills you need it for. It is preferable to max speed out though, as other Garchomp are far more common than max HP/max Defense Blissey.</p>



<<emphasized what makes Garchomp so much better than everything else, and why it is the most used pokemon, and edited some random words out that were making it clunky to read>>

[Opinion]

<p>Garchomp is arguably the best Pokemon in OU. It is the most commonly used Pokemon by a long shot, and there is even discussion about moving it to the Uber tier. Because of how often it is seen, using any Pokemon that Garchomp can set up on is generally asking for disaster. Its unique Speed tier gives it the ability to outspeed base 100 Speed Pokémon, meaning that the number of OU Pokemon that are faster than Garchomp can be counted on your hands. Combined with the excellent type coverage that of its Ground and Dragon STAB and the fact that it has the defenses to set up and sweep with no team support, it is better than your average Pokémon. When you take the prevalence of Sand Stream into account, Garchomp becomes even more frightening since all of its potential counters have a 20% chance of missing thanks to its amazing trait, Sand Veil. Even the bulkiest of Pokémon fear the Swords Dance version as a single critical hit or miss due to the Evasion boost can spell disaster for any team. </p>

<p>Choice Band and Choice Scarf Garchomp are capable of doing severe damage to an unprepared team, and Chain Chomp is going to catch you off-guard if you aren't familiar with it. Every team needs more than one reliable way of stopping any form of Garchomp or else you will lose most of your competitive matches, end of story.</p>


<<added the fact that yache berry needs two counters>>
<<Garchomp by definition is uncounterable, and the counters section should reflect that. There needs to be more mention of Sand Veil since it has a 20% chance of eliminating your potential counter>>

[Counters]

<p>Since the definition of a Garchomp counter is "a Pokemon that can switch into Garchomp and pose an immediate threat", the Swords Dancer moveset is literally uncounterable with Outrage and Yache Berry. No Pokemon can safely switch into Garchomp's powerful STAB attacks and threaten it before it is 2HKOd at worst except for a faster Lugia with almost maximum HP, Reflect and Roost/Recover. Even the majority of Pokemon with super effective Ice-type moves can not outspeed and OHKO Garchomp. Some exceptions are a Choice Band Weavile with Ice Punch, Starmie, Gengar and Deoxys-S, which all fail to work as counters since Weavile will not switch in without taking huge amounts of damage and the other three can not OHKO Garchomp due to its Yache Berry. Because of this fact, beating Garchomp will require at least two Pokemon that can handle its attacks or outspeed it. The best and most common way of dealing with Garchomp is by using a bulky pokemon to eliminate its Yache Berry while it sets up, sacrificing something, luring it into Outrage so it can't switch out and then using a revenge killer to finish the job when Garchomp is not near maximum HP. There are many options for revenge killers, namely any faster pokemon with a strong STAB Dragon attack or STAB Ice attack but most of these rely on Choice Scarf to do so. For example, Choice Scarf Dragonite can OHKO Garchomp with an Outrage of its own, as can Choice Scarf Abomasnow's Blizzard. Mamoswine can also scare Garchomp off or revenge kill it by threatening with a STAB Ice Shard. Donphan works in nearly the same way but its Ice Shard really lacks power.</p>

<p>Of course, any counter or revenge killer has to worry about Sand Veil. With the virtually omnipresent Sand Stream activating Garchomp's trait, every move has only an 80% chance of connecting which makes any potential counter even less reliable.</p>

<p>Any Ice Beam user, without STAB, needs at least 269 Special Attack to have a guaranteed OHKO on a min HP, min Special Defense Garchomp, unless Garchomp is holding a Life Orb (in which case you need 243 Special Attack if it has used an attack once, or a mere 216 Special Attack if it has attacked twice). With that in mind, Slowbro and Suicune can counter most of these sets. Starmie can switch in and OHKO the first set while it Swords Dances, and is bulky enough to shrug off an unboosted Earthquake. Outrage with Swords Dance will severely damage Suicune and Slowbro (residual damage means they lose) when Garchomp is Jolly, but allows your opponent to switch in something like Weavile or Starmie and OHKO your defenseless Garchomp. Cresselia can also switch in, set up Reflect, and threaten a kill or severely damage with Ice Beam. Cloyster can also put up a fight against Garchomp with access to Ice Shard and a Skill Linked Icicle Spear, but it really struggles since a Swords Danced Outrage has a good chance of OHKOing it if Stealth Rock is up. Any residual damage or Spikes means it will always lose, though</p>

<p>So long as they don't have a decent amount (~20%) of residual damage, Hippowdon and Donphan counter the Choice Band set. Hippowdon gets special mention, because it can easily Slack Off the damage it receives and switch in every time. Slowbro can do the same but it will be 2HKOed about 50% of the time against an Adamant Choice Band Garchomp if Sandstorm is in play. As far as the Choice Scarf set goes, Skarmory completely stops it as long as it is kept out of the way of Fire Blasts; other Steels are similar, but need to avoid Earthquake as well. Cresselia is an excellent counter for all sets, but shares the residual damage problem thanks to a lack of a reliable recovery move—its best bet is Rest / Sleep Talk for beating Garchomp. Celebi is another good choice. It needs Hidden Power Ice to do damage fast enough to some sets, but if it's locked into Earthquake, Celebi is pretty safe, and despite being weak to it, Celebi doesn't take much from Fire Blast. Fire Fang and Dragon Claw do not scare Celebi away, even from the Choice Bander. Celebi also has the defenses to mispredict a couple of times against something like Choice Band Outrage or Chain Chomp, as it can safely Recover later.</p>

<p>Celebi and Cresselia are two of the above counters that can switch into Chain Chomp without risking death next turn. Togekiss and Zapdos can take Draco Meteor and Fire Blast with a lot of Special Defense investment; just watch out for Stealth Rock damage and Roost it off in time. Mantine does the same, but Mantine isn't a very good Pokémon otherwise. Repeated smart switching can wear out Draco Meteor's power (and PP) and Garchomp's HP (due to Life Orb); you're playing with fire though. If Stealth Rock is not up the damage output decreases somewhat.</p>

<p>Most teams will want at least one bulky Steel-type specifically to take on Outrage from Choice Band or Swords Dance + Life Orb Garchomp. That is a powerful enough attack to do serious damage to even its counters if they don't resist it. For example, Choice Band Outrage from Adamant Garchomp does 207-244 damage (49.3-58.1%) to 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Hippowdon. Even Jolly Garchomp has a slight chance to 2HKO Hippowdon.</p>
 
[SET]
name: Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Outrage / Dragon Claw
move 4: Fire Fang
item: Yache Berry / Life Orb
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>The Swords Dancer is the bread and butter Garchomp set. Without a doubt, this is the most powerful Pokemon in OU. If your team is not prepared for this set with at least two "counters", you will lose an overwhelming majority of your matches. After a Swords Dance, Garchomp is capable of 2HKOing every single Pokemon in the game. While equipped with a Yache Berry, Garchomp can utilize this fact to its advantage by taking a weakened Ice attack which essentially guarantees a KO on the opposing Pokemon in return. Both of Garchomp's STAB moves together are only resisted by Skarmory and Levitate Bronzong. A Fire move in the last slot can easily take care of that problem. Fire Fang is preferred due to the presense of Swords Dance and the fact that it will 2HKO both of the Steel-types that are immune to Ground after an Attack boost, but Fire Blast can be used to hit Skarmory harder without a Swords Dance. Garchomp possesses enormous potential to set up and sweep because of its underrated defenses, which are well above average, especially after the opponent's bulky counter is worn down.</p>

Changed "of " to "on".
"Both" and "together" are redundant the way used above, you need to get rid of one of them.





<<combining the sub salac set with the brightpowder set>>
<<My thoughts: adding an entirely different set just for one item change is not worth it, especially since they play essentially the same, and ESPECIALLY because they have the same moveset. You are just trading a better chance at keeping a sub for a speed boost, that hardly qualifies as "playing differently" since its just a style choice.>>

[SET]
Name: SubChomp
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Dragon Claw / Outrage
move 4: Earthquake / Fire Fang
item: BrightPowder / Salac Berry
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to Sand Veil and the ridiculous number of players who use Tyranitar or Hippowdon, this set is pretty much set up when either one of the two come out. Once a Sandstorm kicks up, Garchomp's evasion is raised to 28%. That's not a pretty picture for your opponent. BrightPowder Garchomp runs as an old fashion Swords Dancer. However, since it has such a high Evasion rate during a Sandstorm, it will most likely be able to put up a Substitute and use Swords Dance at least once. Garchomp needs to be the fastest it can be so that it has a better chance of not only setting up a Substitute, but also getting in a Swords Dance or two as well.</p>

<p>Garchomp should probably consider using both Ground and Dragon STAB moves in this set. This way, you'll be safe against most Pokémon who resist either type of moves. Fire Fang is listed as an option on the set for a number of reasons. Dragon / Ground is a great attacking combination, but it falls short on a couple of common switch-ins to Garchomp, namely Bronzong and Skarmory. The only Pokemon that resists the Dragon / Fire combination is Heatran, who wouldn't dare switch into Garchomp for fear of Earthquake. Dragon Claw can be used in most situations that call for Earthquake as well. Still, Earthquake is a great option for the dual STAB combination that Garchomp is famous for running, if you have Magnezone to take care of the aforementioned Steels, and the higher base power.</p>

Hyphenate "switch ins".

"Won't" sounded weird beause it is future tense, while "wouldn't" is past tense.


Everything after this seemed fine to me
</p>
Just a few nitpicks i found. good job on rewriting this though, looks like it took a lot of work.
 
Equipped with a Yache Berry, Garchomp can utilize this fact to its advantage by taking a weakened Ice attack which essentially guarantees a KO of the opposing Pokemon in return.
I don't think "while" is needed.

Both of Garchomp's STAB moves together are resisted only by Skarmory and Levitate Bronzong.
Sounds better I think...

A Fire move in the last slot can easily take care of this problem.
Same as above...

this set is pretty much set up when either one of the two come out.
I actually prefer something like "ready to go" over "set up" but I'm not sure so it's your choice.

Still, Earthquake is a great option for the dual STAB combination that Garchomp is famous for running, especially if you have Magnezone to take care of the aforementioned Steels, also its higher base power is a welcome addition
Rephrased a couple of things.

The choice between natures is a matter of what you deem is more important to outspeed.
Rephrased.

It's still very dangerous with that sky-high Attack stat coupled a high powered main STAB attack.
Rephrased still need improving ^^;.

about some Deoxys-S
Deoxys-S is fine.

Hippowdon, Starmie, Slowbro, Weezing, and Donphan to name a few.
Rephrased.

Celebi is pretty safe, and despite being weak to it, Celebi doesn't take much from Fire Blast. Fire Fang and Dragon Claw do rather low damage, even from the Choice Bander.
Remove "do rather low damage,".

Celebi also has the defenses to mispredict a couple of times against something like Choice Band Outrage or Chain Chomp, as it can safely Recover later.
Changed a couple of words.

it is a powerful enough attack to do some serious damage to even its counters if they happen to not resist it.
A couple of rewordings to make it sound better.

For example Choice Band Outrage from Adamant Garchomp does 207-244 damage
Nitpick...

Thanks have a nice day ^^.

~edit: xD Sorry about that took me a while to read through the whole thing. Also yeah good job on this ^v^.
 

jrrrrrrr

wubwubwub
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Thanks Brawley :D

Thanks for the catches, kusaninja, I edited them in except for the "of" vs "on" that you brought up. I just reworded that sentence completely.

edit- Servant some of your edits may have changed before you posted..I've been tweaking it for like the last 15 minutes and because of that I haven't been seeing what other people have been posting. Actually, most of your edits were on sentences that I left in from the original Garchomp analysis, so I guess I can feel a little better after seeing how many you listed :D

I'll update this with Servant's edits and any other edits that pop up tomorrow...god damn I need to go to bed

keep nitpicking
 

junior

jet fuel can't melt steel beams
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/garchomp



[SET]
name: Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Outrage / Dragon Claw
move 4: Fire Fang
item: Yache Berry / Life Orb
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The Swords Dancer is the bread and butter Garchomp set. Without a doubt, this is the most powerful Pokemon in OU. If your team is not prepared for this set with at least two "counters", you will lose an overwhelming majority of your matches.</p>
I feel there should be a new paragraph here, as they address different issues. Without this paragraph break, the analysis for this set will look too clustered also.

<p>After a Swords Dance, Garchomp is capable of 2HKOing every single Pokemon in the game. While equipped with a Yache Berry, Garchomp can utilize this fact to its advantage by taking a weakened Ice attack, which essentially guarantees that you will KO the opposing Pokemon first. This leaves Garchomp (removed 'alive' - unnecessary) as the victor in almost every 1-on-1 case. The combination of Garchomp's Dragon and Ground STAB moves are only resisted by Skarmory and Levitate Bronzong, but a Fire move in the last slot can easily take care of that problem. Fire Fang is preferred due to the presence of Swords Dance and the fact that it will 2HKO both of the Steel-types that are immune to Ground after an Attack boost, but Fire Blast can be used to hit Skarmory harder without a Swords Dance.
The sentence was too long, leading to too many conjunction words used. This makes it sound terrible to read and so, I added a full stop and 'This'.

</p>Garchomp possesses enormous potential to set up and sweep because of its underrated defenses, which are well above average. </p>
Removed "After the opponent's bulky counter is worn down. Be prepared to see this set very often." as it doesn't relate to anything in the last section and repetitive, respectively.

[SET]
Name: SubChomp
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Dragon Claw / Outrage
move 4: Earthquake / Fire Fang
item: BrightPowder / Salac Berry
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Thanks to Sand Veil and the ridiculous number of players who use Tyranitar or Hippowdon, (removed 'the' - unneeded and awkwardness) all of the work needed to set up SubChomp is done when either one of the two come out. Once a Sandstorm kicks up, Garchomp's evasion is raised to 20% thanks to Sand Veil (28% with BrightPowder). That's not a pretty picture for your opponent.</p>
Since we are now focusing on BP Chomp alone, and not Sandstorm + Evasion, this calls for a new paragraph!

<p>BrightPowder Garchomp runs as an old fashioned Swords Dancer. However, since it has such a high Evasion rate during a Sandstorm, as well as decent Speed, it will most likely be able to put up a Substitute and use Swords Dance at least once. Therefore, to use this set to its full potential, running maximum Speed is recommended.</p>
I didn't like the repetitiveness at the end, so I rephrased bits of the paragraph to make sure repetition can't occur.

<p>Garchomp should probably consider using both of its Ground and Dragon STAB moves in this set. This way, you'll be safe against most Pokémon who resist either type of moves. Fire Fang is listed as an option on the set for a number of reasons. While Dragon / Ground is a great attacking combination, (removed 'but' - added 'While' to make it sound better and so 'but' doesn't fit here anymore) it falls short on a couple of common switch-ins to Garchomp, namely Bronzong and Skarmory. The only Pokemon that resists the Dragon / Fire combination is Heatran, who wouldn't dare switch into Garchomp for fear of Earthquake. Dragon Claw can be used in most situations that call for Earthquake as well. Still, Earthquake is a great option for the dual STAB combination that Garchomp is famous for running and for the higher base power, especially if you have Magnezone to take care of the aforementioned Steels.</p>
<p>While BrightPowder can do some good, (removed 'but - reason as above) Salac Berry is more useful overall and requires less team support. If you are using Salac Berry, it is advisable to use an HP IV of 30 so that Salac Berry activates upon your third Substitute, giving you the same Speed as a Scarfchomp. From there, just use your two attacks to sweep. It should be noted that if your third Substitute happens to survive due to your opponent missing, resist the urge to Swords Dance again. Keeping the last Substitute up will foil an opponent who relies on priority moves to KO your weakened Garchomp, and allow you to finish off their team.</p>
I didn't like how this analysis keeps going on about using BP, so I edited the first sentence to suggest it isn't the best option!

<p>Like most Substitute users, this Garchomp won't enjoy Toxic Spikes on your side of the field and so, a spin support along with Magnezone and Sandstream will help this Garchomp immensely. Sandstorm support is almost necessary, as an unfortunate miss by your opponent could spell their demise. As a side note, standard Bronzong, who normally uses 128 Attack EVs with a neutral nature, will not be able to break Garchomp's Sub if Reflect is up.</p>
Added the sentence just for more info on how to use it I guess, although it isn't necessary. You don't have to add it if you don't want to.

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Crunch / Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Choice Scarf Garchomp makes a decent revenge killer and Choice Scarf user in general. It's still very dangerous with that sky-high Attack stat, as well as having 2 STAB attacks with a high base power. An Adamant nature gives Garchomp the most attacking potential and works well with Choice Scarf, but a Jolly nature can be useful if your team can't deal with Deoxys-Speed, Modest Choice Scarf Gengar or other Garchomp. Outrage is your main attack here, and you don't have to worry as much about being locked in because you immediately outspeed everything without a Choice Scarf. As said above, this Garchomp gets good use out of being a revenge killer—if you send it in on something partially weakened, your opponent has to choose between losing what they have out, or sending something else in to take two Outrage hits. This set's main problem is that its main moves get walled by things like Skarmory and Gliscor, reducing its revenge-kill effectiveness.</p>
'Really awesome' sounds TOO biased.

Changed 'and a high base-power main attack' to ', as well as having 2 STAB attacks with a high base power' because the first one sounds confusing. It took me 5 seconds to work out what you mean, seeing as you addressed Attack stat and then followed by high base main attack? People may get confused with the actual attack and between SpA or Atk, if you get what I mean.

'your paranoid' doesn't make sense there, as Deoxys-S and ScarfGar isn't a 'delusion' (by definition).

I think GLiscor is a decent mention as usually, Gliscor gets ripped apart by Garchomp.

<p>Crunch may be weaker than Outrage even if it's super effective, but it helps you hit things like Cresselia early on in the match without getting yourself locked in to Outrage; Stone Edge is mostly filler but it helps against bulky Gyarados. Be careful about opening up with Outrage too early as Starmie isn't OHKOed all the time by it unless you have Stealth Rock on the field; the same goes for other, more durable counters. Dragon Claw is also an option, since it provides a reliable extra STAB move without the obvious drawback of locking yourself into Outrage.</p>
[SET]
name: Chain Chomp
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Draco Meteor
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Life Orb
nature: Naughty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Meet Chain Chomp, the "ridiculous surprise" of Diamond and Pearl, which follows in Tyraniboah's footsteps. The whole concept looks like a joke at first, with the EVs suggesting a focus on Garchomp's mediocre 80 Special Attack instead of that feared 130 Attack. The reason is Draco Meteor, an insanely overpowered move that gets STAB and kills many of Garchomp switch-ins within one or two turns; Hippowdon, Starmie, Slowbro, Weezing, and Donphan are (removed 'merely' - isn't needed and doesn't really fit anyway) examples. By supporting Garchomp with Stealth Rock you guarantee a KO on all of these as long as they go no further than maxing HP and 0 Special Defense EVs. Add Sand Stream to the mix for an increased evasion and more residual damage and you've got a killer surprise on your hands.</p>
'/' usually means 'or' so 'and' between Diamond and Pearl is better.

<p>Arguably the best use of this set is as following: first, use Swords Dance. Swords Dancing may lure an opponent into a false sense of security, as nothing tells them you are not running the standard physical sweeper, whereas any other move would give away the surprise. Yes, Earthquake as well, since it would do less damage than a usual Life Orb Garchomp would do. After Swords Dancing you should take note of what your opponent brings in to counter Garchomp. If it is one of these aforementioned counters, Draco Meteor them on your next switch-in and you should be able to knock them out next round. Note that Draco Meteor will usually do more against those than Earthquake, even after the Special Attack drop. This version of Garchomp will not last as long and not sweep as much as the others because of Life Orb's recoil, and the -Special Defense nature, but it does provide excellent support for a secondary physical heavy-hitter to come in and take advantage of the weakening or the killing of your opponent's Hippowdon, Slowbro, or whatever their main physical wall is.</p>
I like the sounding of 'recoil' more than 'HP drop'.

<p>Fire Blast is there because it nearly always kills Skarmory and 2HKOs Bronzong, who you need slight prediction against. Earthquake will almost always OHKO Blissey after a Swords Dance, that is, unless she has at least 709 HP and max Defense, in which case she stands a chance to live. More Attack EVs can be used for a guaranteed 2HKO, but generally this EV spread is more efficient.</p>
Removed the 2HKOing BLissey without SD as it is clear already, due to OHKOing after Garchomp's attack doubles. This made it unnecessary I guess.

[Other Options]
<p>Garchomp doesn't have many other useful options in terms of moves. It may be the most dangerous threat in OU, but it's not very versatile.</p>

<p>Given that Garchomp has better overall defenses than Swampert, running a defensive set is a viable option. Unfortunately, the only support/defensive moves Garchomp has are Roar and Stealth Rock.</p>
Removed 'and Rest + Sleep Talk' as they aren't support moves.

[EVs]
<p>There really isn't any reason to not have maximum Speed investment. Putting 12 EVs into HP or Atk may be tempting since you will still be outspeeding all base 100s, but there are no cases where an extra 3 HP, Attack or Defense will be worth losing every match-up against opposing Garchomp.</p>
[Opinion]

<p>Garchomp is, without question, the best Pokemon in OU. Not using Garchomp on your team is putting yourself at a disadvantage, and using any Pokemon that Garchomp can set up on could call for for disaster. Its unique Speed tier gives it the ability to outspeed base 100 Speed Pokémon, meaning that the number of OU Pokemon that are faster than Garchomp can be counted on one hand. Combined with the excellent type coverage of Ground and Dragon gives it a nearly unresisted STAB combination. This and the fact that it has the defenses to set up and sweep with no support makes it is better than your average Pokémon. When you take the prevalence of Sand Stream into account, Garchomp becomes even more frightening since all of its potential counters have a 20% chance of missing thanks to its amazing trait, Sand Veil. Even the bulkiest of Pokémon fear the Swords Dance version as a single critical hit or miss due to the Evasion boost can spell disaster for any team.</p>

<p>
Choice Band and Choice Scarf Garchomp are capable of doing severe damage to (removed 'the' - unnecessary) unprepared team, whereas Chain Chomp is going to catch you off-guard if you aren't familiar with it, which may very well cost you the game. Every team needs more than one reliable way of stopping any form of Garchomp or else you will lose most of your competitive matches, end of story.</p>
You basically said using most walls are asking for disaster, which isn't true. So I changed from it being definite, to having a possibility for asking Garchomp to set up and sweep.

I rephrased a bit to make it sound better.

Better adjectives is better, thus more frightening :heart:

[Counters]
<p>Since the definition of a Garchomp counter is "a Pokemon that can switch into Garchomp and pose an immediate threat", the Swords Dancer moveset is literally uncounterable, with Outrage and Yache Berry. No Pokemon can (removed 'legitimately' - bad word usage) switch into Garchomp's powerful STAB attacks and threaten it before it is 2HKOd at worst, except for a faster Lugia with almost maximum HP, Reflect and Roost/Recover. Even majority of Pokemon with super-effective Ice-type moves can not outspeed and OHKO Garchomp, with the exception of Starmie, Deoxys-S and Choice Band Weavile, which fails to work as Yache Berry saves Garchomp from Ice Beam while Weavile failing as a counter since it will not switch in without taking huge amounts of damage. Because of this fact, beating Garchomp will require at least two Pokemon that can handle its attacks or outspeed it. The best and most common way of dealing with Garchomp is by using a bulky Pokemon to eliminate its Yache Berry while it sets up, sacrificing something, luring it into Outrage so it can't switch out and then using a revenge killer to finish the job when Garchomp is not near maximum HP. </p>
Removed 'There are many options for revenge killers, namely any faster pokemon with a strong STAB Dragon attack or STAB Ice attack but most of these rely on Choice Scarf to do so. For example, Choice Scarf Dragonite can OHKO Garchomp with an Outrage of its own, as can Choice Scarf Abomasnow's Blizzard.' as its too repetitive. Garchomp's analysis is too long for this much repetition imo.

Wow ok, that was way too damn long e_e. I suggest cutting the counter section down. I'm stopping here since I'm tired now and still have school work to do.
 

cim

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I know that Garchomp is an amazing Pokémon that's probably Uber and stuff, but do you REALLY have to hype it so much? It's most importantly annoying, and some of it isn't completely accurate. For example, not using Garchomp doesn't immediately make your team disadvantaged. Maybe your team doesn't need a Swords Dancing sweeper, such as a stall team. Maybe your team is already too weak to Ice or Dragon attacks as is. Please don't make the claim that your team is inherently inferior just because you passed up the best Swords Dancer.

In general, cut down the hype a little. You don't need 2 Garchomp counters to beat the Swords Dancer, you need at least two things that can do something at all to Garchomp. For example, two Pokémon with Ice attacks. You don't absolutely need two counters to beat him though if you're smart. I've gotten away with as little as an Ice Shard Weavile and a Knock Off Gliscor, the latter I wasn't even specifically using for Garchomp. Of course, more counters are better, but you're stretching things a bit by saying you require two direct, nearly-full counters.

While nothing can switch in on every move on the Swords Dancer with little risk, there are some very-close-to-100%-counters in mind. Cresselia takes everything that's not SD Outrage like the snake thing she is and 2HKOs with Ice Beam (hint: Don't run much SAtk), and once Outrage is being used, most Steels become counters simply because the move Outrage is guaranteed to be used.
 
I might point out Knock Off Gliscor as a counter to the sword dance set.

It can come in on a SD and knock off Yache Berry, then take a hit but OKHO with Ice Fang as long as the Garchomp only got in 1 Sword Dance.
 

jrrrrrrr

wubwubwub
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I know that Garchomp is an amazing Pokémon that's probably Uber and stuff, but do you REALLY have to hype it so much? It's most importantly annoying, and some of it isn't completely accurate. For example, not using Garchomp doesn't immediately make your team disadvantaged. Maybe your team doesn't need a Swords Dancing sweeper, such as a stall team. Maybe your team is already too weak to Ice or Dragon attacks as is. Please don't make the claim that your team is inherently inferior just because you passed up the best Swords Dancer.
Garchomp IS the best pokemon in OU and it's massive lead in usage statistics demonstrates that. I really don't think I was hyping it up except in the "Opinion" section, which should be fine because its just opinions anyways.

I meant that your team is at a disadvantage in the fact that any team without Garchomp is significantly worse off from an offensive standpoint compared to if it did have Garchomp since it is capable of sweeping with no team support by itself with only one turn of set up. It basically says "I don't even care if my teammates have synergy with me". If your team has too many Ice or Dragon weaks, Garchomp should be replacing them and not the other way around. However, I do agree that not all teams need Garchomp, so I'll reword that to make it a bit nicer.

In general, cut down the hype a little. You don't need 2 Garchomp counters to beat the Swords Dancer, you need at least two things that can do something at all to Garchomp. For example, two Pokémon with Ice attacks. You don't absolutely need two counters to beat him though if you're smart. I've gotten away with as little as an Ice Shard Weavile and a Knock Off Gliscor, the latter I wasn't even specifically using for Garchomp. Of course, more counters are better, but you're stretching things a bit by saying you require two direct, nearly-full counters.
You don't need two counters, you need a bulky pokemon to strip its item or otherwise deal damage and then something else to revenge kill it. Same difference dude =\

By the literal definition of the word "counter", you do need more than one pokemon that can beat Garchomp. You are right here, I'll reword "you need two counters" to something along the lines of "you need multiple pokemon that can take it on because you are going to lose the first one".

While nothing can switch in on every move on the Swords Dancer with little risk, there are some very-close-to-100%-counters in mind. Cresselia takes everything that's not SD Outrage like the snake thing she is and 2HKOs with Ice Beam (hint: Don't run much SAtk), and once Outrage is being used, most Steels become counters simply because the move Outrage is guaranteed to be used.
Well, thats why I specifically mentioned Yache+Outrage as the uncounterable set. The "nothing can switch in" part was what I was emphasizing since it is by far the most important part of the counters section. Gliscor has a good chance of beating Dragon Claw Chomp thanks to Sand Veil and the fact that an SD DC wont 2hko on average. Outrage is the main point of that paragraph. It is worth emphasizing that Steel types are only counters to Outrage if: 1) something else was just killed by it, 2) If it is at near max HP (since most Bronzong are 2hkod by adamant cb outrage), 3) if it isn't critted and 4) if it actually hits through sand veil.

I might point out Knock Off Gliscor as a counter to the sword dance set.

It can come in on a SD and knock off Yache Berry, then take a hit but OKHO with Ice Fang as long as the Garchomp only got in 1 Sword Dance.
This isn't true since Gliscor can not OHKO Garchomp with Ice Fang even without Yache Berry, and it STILL has to deal with Sand Veil. People overestimate the physical Ice Moves. Ice Fang only has 65 base power iirc. And that also ignores the fact that Outrage 2HKOs Gliscor after an SD even with 252hp/252def and impish. Garchomp still wins.

Knock Off Gliscor makes Garchomp's life difficult, but it is not a counter.

Thanks so far for the comments/nitpicks, I'll edit them in later today.

Keep attacking it, I want this to be "perfect".
 

JabbaTheGriffin

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why the fuck would you knock off a yache berry when ice fang deals damage AND gets rid of yache...

i'll look over the revisions later today and edit this with any comments
 

Lee

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I'm just pondering over whether Fire Blast needs to be listed alongside Fire Fang in the first set. I understand you're trying to limit slashitis as much as possible but you've actually wrote "but Fire Blast can be used to hit Skarmory harder without a Swords Dance" in the description so it looks a little odd to not have it as an official option in the set.
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
I'm pleased with the work that has been put into this revamp, but considering action to move Garchomp to Ubers is underway and seems to have a lot of support, it might need to be redone very soon.
 

jrrrrrrr

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Thanks for the comments so far, I'll edit them in later today when I get a chance to actually put more effort into it. Most of the nitpicking has been on content that was already in the analysis before I posted this edit, which makes me even happier because people agree with me that it needed some work.

I'm just pondering over whether Fire Blast needs to be listed alongside Fire Fang in the first set. I understand you're trying to limit slashitis as much as possible but you've actually wrote "but Fire Blast can be used to hit Skarmory harder without a Swords Dance" in the description so it looks a little odd to not have it as an official option in the set.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Fire Blast is just kind of the only other worthwhile other option on the set...but I don't think it really deserves a spot since Fire Fang is going to be more useful in nearly every applicable situation. Bronzong is more common than Skarmory, it also hurts Celebi more than Dragon Claw and Fire Blast do after an SD, and an SD FF has more base power than Fire Blast anyways. Fire Blast is just a "hey this can work sometimes too so dont feel restriced by the guide" thing but it isn't as good as Fire Fang so I left it out.

I'm pleased with the work that has been put into this revamp, but considering action to move Garchomp to Ubers is underway and seems to have a lot of support, it might need to be redone very soon.
I edited the analysis with this in mind. This edit cut out a few references to OU pokemon as potential counters and the comments that I added were pretty general as far as the difference in metagames are concerned. There is only a small amount of editing that will have to be done if it goes to Ubers, and most of it is in the counters section. When it gets moved to Ubers I will just re-post the edit without the OU references. I didn't want to get too far ahead of myself by gearing the whole analysis towards Ubers. I'll work on an Uber Garchomp analysis soon, once this one is all taken care of.
 
Other options mentions Sleep Talk + Rest without talking about Outrage - IIRC if Sleep Talk picks Outrage it acts like a 1 turn use move ie. Garchomp doesn't get locked in to using Outrage. Possibly worth adding in.
 
The combination of Garchomp's Dragon and Ground STAB moves are only resisted by Skarmory and Levitate Bronzong,
"are" should be "is" (the subject is combination)

but a Fire move in the last slot can easily take care of that problem.
"but" doesn't really fit in this sentence; you're saying <positive thing>, but <positive thing> (by <positive thing>, I mean something presented in a positive light). But should only be used if you're going from positive to negative or vice versa.

<p>Garchomp should probably consider using both Ground and Dragon STAB moves in this set. This way, you'll be safe against most Pokémon who resist either type of moves.
The second sentence is really unclear, should probably be rephrased.

It does come with a 10% drop in power over an Adamant nature, though.</p>
"drop in power over an Adamant nature" implies that a "drop in power" is superior, when of course it's not. I'd rephrase to "It does carry a 10% drop in power", or something like that.

Counters said:
Even pokemon with super effective Ice-type moves can not outspeed and OHKO Garchomp except for a Choice Band Weavile's Ice Punch,
Capitalize Pokemon. The last part should be "a CB Weavile with Ice Punch", because you already stated that it's a Pokemon that's OHKOing Garchomp, not a move.
 
Ya know... minor nitpick, but you could add Choice Band next to Choice Scarf in a slash, and name the set ChoiceChomp or something like that. In my experiences recently Choice Band is occurs just as frequently if not more than Choice Scarf. Since they use the same moves, it is definately worth noting.

EDIT: I read through the entire thing. Almost all of it is very good, except I agree with Chris is me... there is a little too much of "hyping" for an analysis. For example, you spend about 50% of the first set talking about how good the set is rather then just explaining it. Really after the first sentence, you can proceed with "the combination of dragon, fire, etc...." and I would honestly cut out the Fire Blast section since no Swords Dancer ever uses Fire Blast on Skarm (why would you?) Skarmory isn't problematic enough to that set to warrent Fire Blast, and is by no means a counter.

Garchomp is without question the best pokemon in OU. Not using Garchomp on your team is putting yourself at a disadvantage, and using any pokemon that Garchomp can set up on is asking for disaster. Its unique speed tier gives it the ability to outspeed base 100 Speed Pokémon, meaning that the number of OU pokemon that are faster than Garchomp can be counted on one hand.
This in the opinion section is actually too much of an opinion. I know that sounds wierd, but you don't see the Kyogre analysis saying "Kyogre is without question the best uber" just because it is used most. Regardless of if it is or not, it doesn't sound professional. The second sentence needs to be eliminated because it is a terrible statement and again, not professional. And there are more than 5 OU pokemon faster than Garchomp.... Deoxys-E, Gengar, Azelf, Jolteon, Starmie, Weavile, Infernape off the top of my head.

To play devil's advocate, not using Garchomp does not put you at a disadvantage. Rather using him gives most players (specifically novice players) an advantage because he is guarenteed his 1 + kill(s) per match.
 

jrrrrrrr

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Choice Band vs. Choice Scarf Garchomp is one of the few changes where the item actually does make the set play differently enough to warrant individual sets. CBChomp is used as an offensive behemoth and can just come out at any point in the game, and it really doesn't care about its lack of speed. CSChomp is a revenge killer, plain and simple. The lack of power is extremely noticeable in the two sets and players tend to be much more reckless with CBChomp while CS is much more situational. CSChomp can actually be walled while CBChomp is taking something down with it, and I feel that difference alone is worthy of two different sets.

As I stated earlier in the thread, I'm going to re-word the part of the opinion section that you highlighted, RL. I just havent gotten around to editing it today since i've just been at the computer in short bursts. Not using Garchomp on your team is a disadvantage, but only in the sense that not having it significantly reduces the amount of damage you will do. Garchomp is the best pokemon in OU (in OU for the time being, that is) and its analysis should reflect that. A little hype prepares the newer player for how often they will be seeing Garchomp and I hardly think it's "not professional". This is a Garchomp analysis and I think it actually wouldn't be professional or responsible to not mention how good and common it really is.

Getting to your Kyogre analogy- I just looked at it and it certainly does hype it up. Phrases like "this set is absurdly deadly", "this set destroys anyone not using moves x y and z", "capable of smashing through teams", "one of the most fearsome pokemon in the uber tier" etc are scattered throughout nearly every section, so actually I do see the Kyogre analysis doing the same thing and you really should have read its analysis before making that comment. If anything, my edit of Garchomp has less hype than the current Kyogre analysis since it's only contained in the SD set and the Opinions section. I get your point though- that sentence is worded poorly and I'll change it in a little bit. Hype in an analysis isn't a bad thing, especially when the pokemon is deserving of it.

tbqh I forgot that Jolteon and Azelf were even OU. Jolteon slipped my mind completely and I think of Azelf in that retarded suicide lead role and not as a fast sweeper anymore. I counted the other 5 though =\ I'll change that. And you forgot the chance that I may have 7 fingers on old lefty, in which case my claim would be accurate.
 
<p>Given that Garchomp has better overall defenses than Swampert, running a defensive set is a viable option. Unfortunately, the only support/defensive moves Garchomp has are Roar, Stealth Rock, and Rest + Sleep Talk.</p>
and toxic d_d

scarf and cb definetely need seperate sets, much like heracross.

another thing, i think the choice scarf set should have sr and toxic at least mentioned in other options if not slashed in. i know for a fact that me, hibachi and earthworm at least have used these with success

im sure i dont need to explain the rationale to most of you but just in case it isnt clear, you scout their garchomp counter while either laying sr or crippling them (gliscor/cress/hippow/bulky waters) with toxic.





also lol at knock off gliscor
 

jrrrrrrr

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I agree that Toxic and SR could be useful on the scarf set but i really don't know where to put them. If I add them to the third slot, that gives five options in the last spot. Crunch is good I guess for Celebi, Stone Edge for Zapdos and Gyarados, Dragon Claw is a move I've used personally to a lot of success and I feel that its probably the main option on that moveslot anyways...and EQ/Outrage/Fire Blast are obviously mandatory. Any suggestions? Or is 5 moves on one slot passable if the other three only have one option each?
 
fire blast hurts celebi anyways and outrage does more, tbh ive always seen crunch garchomp as a "newbie" move, maybe im alone on that one though xD;
 

junior

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you didn't even consider any of my fixes............... not even the most simple ones like 'Pokemon'.......

EDIT:
<@Hipmonlee> those seem like good suggestions
<@Hipmonlee> reading over it

I hope this will actually encourage you to at least read and consider some...
 

Jimbo

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Seems like a really good analysis, I don't think it's too long at all, there's no real fluff to be cut down upon.

I do think that Sleep talk/Rest deserves more than Other Options, especially since Garchomp doesn't get locked into Outrage after Sleep Talking it.
 
SubChomp has to be sorted into Bright Powder and Salac. Bright Powder Garchomp is trying to take advantage of Sand Veil to gain free turns, SubSalacChomp is using Substitutes to activate Salac Berry to sweep. The item isn't a minor change, they play completely differently.

Also, the SubSalacChomp set needs an EV spread of 60 HP / 248 Atk / 200 Spe with a Jolly nature. If you do keep the set how it currently is, at least give it 30 Spe IV to have Salac activate after three Substitutes.

An item change is not necessarily a minor difference. Why are both Garchomp and Heracross separated into Band/Scarf sets? It's just a "style change", whether you'd like more speed or more power. Why do you think Bulky Gyarados and Life Orb Gyara are separated into different sets? It's just a "style change", whether you'd like more offensive capabilities or can take hits better.
 

cim

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Not using Garchomp on your team is a disadvantage, but only in the sense that not having it significantly reduces the amount of damage you will do. How is that changing what you said? There are other Pokémon that may be better depending on the team for the "physical sweeper with Swords Dance" role. Garchomp is the best pokemon in OU and its analysis should reflect that. Yes. But do you need to spend most of the analysis HYPING it? You criticized me earlier for spending a proportionally smaller chunk of the Flygon analysis on comparing it to Garchomp, but now you want to devote nearly half the analysis to how glorious and perfect Garchomp is?A little hype prepares the newer player for how often they will be seeing Garchomp and I hardly think it's "not professional". A little, maybe. But you've gone overboard. Like, even more than the Gyarados analysis, which personally I think is very excessive in terms of hyping. This is a Garchomp analysis and I think it actually wouldn't be professional or responsible to not mention how good and common it really is. You can do that without hyping him for half of the analysis... it only takes one sentence to say Garchomp is a top tier threat.

Hype in an analysis isn't a bad thing, especially when the pokemon is deserving of it.
But not an absurdly excessive amount!
 
I agree with Chris. Even if it is Opinions, saying things like "Garchomp is without question the best pokemon in OU." is too subjective. We can all agree that "Garchomp is a top-tier OU, perhaps THE best Pokemon in OU.", but to state it like fact is going too far. I always will prefer Lucario for a Swords Dancer for the simple fact that it gets Extremespeed and Bullet Punch so it will not be revenge-killed as easily.

"If your team is not prepared for this set with at least two "counters", you will lose an overwhelming majority of your matches." is also an exaggeration. Look at two of the most recent successful teams, husk's and ipl's offensive teams, or even Aldaron's offensive team many months back. Did any of them have Garchomp counters? No, they just brought it down with sheer offense and speed, all three of their teams were very successful.

I think this analysis needs to be redone, more professionally and objectively. The current analysis does not emphasize Garchomp's power enough, but yours over-emphasizes it.
 

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