The Colossi return?

Its been quite awhile smogon. Freshman year at the academy sucks and it has been extremely busy, but I have some time today to make an RMT. I was feeling a bit nostalgic, and decided to revamp my good ol' scarfzard lead team. I've been trying to keep up with all of the platinum updates, so here goes nothing. **UPDATE** Over spring break I got this team to 25th in one night. I really think it has a lot of potential, and I plan to master it soon.

THE COLOSSI--at a glance....

Spr_4h_212_m.png


GENERAL STRATEGY
The eventual goal of this team is to pull off a Gyarados and/or Scizor sweep, through the aid of CBSnorlax. The theory is that, with Snorlax shoving a CB pursuit up the ass of shit like celebi,starmie, and the rotoms, the combo will work efficiently, especially with the aid of Lightscreen from bronzong...

THE COLOSSI

SotC___Avion_by_rah_bop.jpg

Charizard @ Choice Scarf ***Avion
Blaze
Modest/Timid
EVs: 72 HP, 252 SpAtk, 180 Spd, 4 SpDef/4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Fire Blast/Overheat
-Focus Blast
-HP Ice
-Air Slash

Alrighty...ScarfZard. There are quite a few things to explain about him, so I'll start with the EVs. With 172 Spd EVs and a Scarf, he outspeeds Timid Scarf Heatran, which I felt was pretty important in today's metagame. I didn't max out speed because I find the HP EVs to be extremely useful, especially as a lead. With the EVs he can survive most non-STAB Thunderbolts (notably Gengar's minus Life Orb). The random 4 SpDef EVs are there because I needed odd HP so that Charizard can switch into rocks twice. But yeah, let me tell ya surviving stuff like modest scarfgar's thunderbolt and OHKOing back with a blazed Fire Blast is pretty statisfying (I did the calcs--even with max damage this 'Zard survives with 10 HP lol). Its pretty much a coinflip whether Gengar dies without blaze with Fire Blast, which does between 92.75% - 109.16% to a 4/0 Gengar. Also of note is that Focus Blast is doing 85.15% - 100.00% to a 252 HP/ 0 SpDef Neutral Nature Tyranitar with the Sandstorm boost factored in. Can't hurt to hope right? It also never fails to survive a Timid max SpA Rotom-w Hydro Pump. It's amazing what a few HP EVs can do for survivability. The alternate EV spread will at least speed tie the ever common neutral DDmence and ScarfFlygon. It also makes it better at sweeping with a Blaze boost. With Timid it outspeeds the common ScarfRachi lead, and has an 85% chance to OHKO with Fire Blast.

I used to run Overheat over Fire Blast, but with the potential for an end-game Blaze boost due to two switches into rocks, Fire Blast has the potential to sweep. This is primarily the reason to use Scarfzard over any other poke that could fit into his role. So many times have I been down in a game and then Charizard comes in at 1 HP to win it for me. In case "Dormin" is a mystery to some, it is a reference to the game Shadow of the Colossus, after which this team is themed. I highly, HIGHLY recommend it. In the game, Avion sweeps down and bowls you over unless you figure out that you have to jump up to get onto him. Scarfzard essentially does this--bowling over those who think he's a noob bellyzard lead until they realize his true set.

Hydrus_by_LishaPhish.jpg

Gyarados @ Leftovers ***Hydrus
Intimidate
Adamant
EVs: 156 HP, 108 Atk, 100 Def, 144 Spd
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge
-Taunt

Ahhhh yes, Gyarados. In SotC, Hydrus electrocutes the player with its fins, and quickly causes death unless one can figure out how to stop it. 1/3 of the Gyarados, Lucario, Snorlax core, the plan for gyara is to either tear open holes for Lucario, or sweep up the opponent's team lategame. BulkyGyara has been my favorite sweeper from the beginning of D/P, and I can say from experience that it is the best Gyara out there (at least for me), especially under dualscreens caused by the next poke/colossus....

Demise_of_the_Ritual_by_Merinid_DE.jpg

Bronzong @ Light Clay***Malus
Levitate
Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP, 152 Atk, 8 Def, 96 SpDef
-Light Screen
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Explosion

Another critical piece of my strategy--Lightscreen 'Zong. First off, I've replaced Heatproof with Levitate, and stuck Stealth Rock on the set. I am wondering what my final move would be. Explosion is a good safety valve for stuff with too much set-up, but it is pretty predictable. Gyro Ball really helps my Salamence and Tyranitar weakness, but also makes this guy magnezone bait. Earthquake allows me to surprise kill Heatran or Magnezone switch-ins, but makes this guy set-up bait for Salamence. Given the pace of the team, and the fact that Bronzong will be setting up with three support moves, I'll probably need to regain the battle momentum with Explosion. Malus is the final boss of SotC, and as such he is incredibly hard to take down--just like this 'Zong. Update--with Scizor on the team, I feel the need for Earthquake is imperative in an attempt to take down Heatran and Magnezone via LS+EQ.

SotC_Valus_by_Morkur.jpg

Snorlax @ Choice Band***Valus
Thick Fat
Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 SpDef
-Pursuit
-Return
-Superpower/Earthquake
-Crunch

CBlax is just great, especially with my "ace in the hole" pursuit. Pursuit really makes the set, weakening all sorts of shit that pose a threat to Gyarados and Lucario. Return over Body Slam for raw power over the paralysis of Body Slam. EQ catches common Tyranitar switch-ins, and Crunch for a strong alternative to Pursuit. I've been considering Superpower over it though...thoughts?

Valus is a big dumb brute who swings his girth and strength around to defeat the player. Snorlax fits this description nicely.

Kuromori___ATC_by_Merinid_DE.jpg

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf***Kuromori
Levitate
Timid
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-Overheat
-Trick
-Shadow Ball

Kuromori is akin to a shadow on a wall--crawling along it silently before firing unavoidable electrical bolts at you. Rotom acts in much the same way here--"walking" all over walls with trick and still posing an offensive threat. This used to be Celebi, but Stathakis made me realize the opening I was giving the opponent with it, and how Rotom does exactly the same thing, but better. This guy counters a helluva lot, and Rotom-h poses more of an offensive threat than Rotom-w, which I used to have here. I find more and more that this team turns disadvantages into advantages. Like Rocks HELPING my scarfzard, Pursuit taking out Rotom helps the rest of the team. I now have a perfectly free switch in for Lucario/Gyarados to start wrecking stuff. This is the beauty of this team, and the reason why it is my favorite.

Gaius_by_oh8.jpg

Scizor @ Life Orb***Gaius
Technician
Jolly
EVs: 76 HP, 252 Atk, 180 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Night Slash

Gaius is a giant, and can easily kill you with his massive stone club or crush you underneath his heel. Scizor is a "giant" threat, and works extremely well on this team with Lightscreen and gyarados. Scizor does a great job of sweeping in tandem with Gyarados--he either creates a mess for Gyarados to clean up or Gyarados makes the mess for Luke. Currently I think BP, Jolly, and Night Slash are the best choices. Another update--Lucario+Gyarados is just too easily countered. Even with Pursuit, I found myself absolutely unable to bypass Gliscor/Vaporeon. With Scizor, all this changes--I can now take on both with Bullet Punch and Superpower with the extra bulk over Lucario, and with Jolly, Night Slash, and LO I can OHKO defensive WoW Rotom. Nice, I know. Scarf versions are still dealt with admirably by CBlax. I think I might max out speed to make sure I outrun any rotom's that might run some extra speed.

OVERALL THOUGHTS
This team has a lot going for it in terms of the surprise factor, which I think will help win a lot of games. ScarfZard starts off the battle fast and hard, and is a set I have come to fall in love with over the course of D/P. I think Bronzong, Snorlax, and Rotom-h together make a solid defensive and offensive core, and each has a role to play, unlike most generic defensive pokes on many teams. The lack of speed is made up, at least in part, by screens, and its not like any of these pokes are defenseless. Stall has always been a bane for me, but between the infamous wallbreaker Lucario, Pursuit from CBlax, Trick+Scarf, and Dualscreens I shouldn't have too much trouble. Rocks, as always, suck--especially with this team's 6x weak via Gyarados and Charizard. I really don't mind Charizard's weakness to it, because I love nothing more than a Blaze boost to tear up shit late-game. Gyarados is helped a lot by screens and usually won't switch out when I bring him in, so I don't think rocks will be too much of a hindrance.

THREATS

Quote:
It seems like DP will be, more than anything else, about having a certain strategy, planning, and executing that strategy. There is simply too much to counter in too few pokemon and moves; at this point one can never hope to be able to counter everything.

I think this team exemplifies the statement above with its surprise factor, clear strategy, and the ability of dualscreens to patch up a lot of holes.

I know this was kinda tl;dr, but thanks for reading!

RATE/HATE/PLEASE RATE!
 
I wanted the first post. I'll edit in like 10 seconds.

edit: aanyways, I really don't understand what you're gaining from celebi. at the moment stall fucks with you pretty hard, what with residual damage fucking up your whole team as well as the glaring walled-ness by your run of the mill steels like skamory and foretress, who will piss you off so much if they're on the same team. essentially all the stall player has to do is switch around until residual damage has turned the team unrecognizable. so let's see what can be done.

among minor fixes, I'm thinking leftovers will go a long way on gyarados, especially since he's lategame sweeping and not just trying to do damage off the bat. I'm also thinking you should replace celebi with a scarftricking rotom form. it still beats scizor and lucario suicune for you, allows you to switch into close combats from ape, who troubles you, while doing hefty damage back at him, helps you in the way of fucking up stall by crippling something with trick, and gives you a better revenge killer should you be wanting to keep scarfzard away from the rocks until a crucial moment. and since rotom does essentially what celebi does and more (as in, fucking up stall, much easier to switch in due to typing, etc) why not.

I'd also at least consider sdluke over mamoswine. he still carries strong priority, but also sets up beautifully with dual screens up. and with snorlax pursuiting those troubling rotom forms, cresselias, and the like, and your whole team being pretty mean to hippowdon in general, sdluke can sweep pretty well. and of course, against stall, you always have the nice option of crippling zapdos with gyarados or lucario and then sweeping with the other guy. basically, lucario helps you make better use of the dual screens, does off the bat damage the same way as mamo, lures in and cripples gyarados countesr, and fucks up stall for you like no other.

@venom, I don't think that rapid spinning can even take place on a fast-paced team like this.
 
Is there a reason why this team does not have a Rapid Spinner? The lack of a Rapid Spinner here really hurts this team, Charizard takes 50% from Stealth Rocks, while Gyarados takes 25%, which is obviously hurting your team dramatically. One thing that comes to mind if Foretress, which would replace Bronzong, but then you lose your Screens, so its really a pick your poison thing here.
 
lol actually Forry was on the original draft of this team over Bronzong, but with Rotom running all over the place, I don't see the point. Rapid Spin really hurts the momentum of the team, allowing set-ups that I might not be able to counter. Read the overall thoughts section to see my view on rocks against this team.
 
I really like Stathakis' suggestions, and plan to implement them very soon. For other rates, please take into account his suggestions as well. Rotom also prevents brick-break from fucking over my screens. Thanks for the great rate!

EDIT: Edited in Stathakis's suggestions--all seemed really solid, and made the team more efficient. Luke over Mamo, Rotom-w over Celebi, and Leftovers over Life Orb on Gyarados.
 
Seeing as how you have no safe switch into CBTar and no Dark Resistance, I would try Machamp somewhere on here. He defeats lead Bronzong, CB Tar and Azelf, so that would put you at an advantage early game. If it's an unfavorable paring, then you an save his valuable Dynamic Punches for later.
Also, Ghosts do not block the effects of Brick Break :|
 
I was thinking about this team and I got to thinking how you don't have anything to lure celebi out with, with which to switch snorlax in afterwards. Think about it, which of your other pokemon would celebi switch in on? It would hardly ever make an appearance til gyarados does. To fix this, you might want to use an idea I've been toying with, suggested by a friend. Signal beam starmie can lure out celebi and eliminate it. Starmie also helps with the mixape weakness. This gives you a slightly larger problem with cress though, but it's not like lax did much to it if it didn't switch out.
 
Hmmmm CBtar could be an issue, but I think it can be worked around between Bronzong and Lucario especially. I can only see lead CBtar's being a big problem since most of the team does a number on it. Plus I'd be up for attempting to cripple lead T-tars with Charizard's Focus Blast seeing as how Sandstorm+potential stealth rock ruins its two switch-ins. Thanks for the observation though.

At scofield I think both Gyara and Luke do a relatively good job of luring out Celebi, and since one or the other is probably going to come out to scout early in the game/open up holes, I don't think it'll be a big problem. Though that Starmie idea is very interesting...I'll definitely consider it over Rotom-w. However, Zapdos would probably shit all over this team outside of Snorlax if I put in Starmie.
 
I suggest switching Rotom-w to Rotom-c, as T-Bolt already hits Infernape for about 61-72%, while Overheat would of course greatly aid in taking out Scizor/Lucario/Metagross/Insert steel not named Heatran here.

I'd also like to suggest Stealth Rock over EQ on Bronzong. With Light Screen and Heatproof, Mixape's Fire Blast does about 27-32%, which should give you time to Reflect(CC when you have Reflect us does less) and then set up SR. The benefit of having SR is well, having SR. Or of course you can just switch Zong in early game and set up the Rocks, then come back later as its not like he doesn't have plenty of chances to switch in. Now of course if you've been doing fine without SR, then you can just ignore this suggestion.

Anyways Hi Dormin, nice to see you. Really I just wanted to say hi(hopefully you remember me lol), but felt I should probably include a rate of some sorts, given the forum.

EDIT: O= you were using my HP Elec Mamo?!?!?! That is absolutely awesome(even if he was replaced...)

As for the Rotom suggestion, yea, I meant Rotom-h. That IS the one with Overheat, right? I get them confused a lot.
 
Hi Luphrous =D. lol Actually you missed it--I used to have Mamoswine over Lucario with your MixMamo set (HP Elec). I credited you though.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing with Rocks over EQ. I think Rocks will make it in there at some point.

Do you mean Rotom-h?
 
these types of teams can't afford to counter cbtar. it just gives up the fast pace they need. but between gyara, bronzong, and luke, he should be able to play around it and keep it from getting free switchins, aka its gonna take much more damage than its gonna deal.

I fail to see how this team would have any problems with celebi. taking my adjustments into account, cblax pursuits it, sdluke ice punches it for ~80%, sealing the deal with residual damage. scarfzard's stabs kill it, bronzong blows it up. the only pokemon that doesn't completely rape celebi is gyarados. no, celebi should not give you any problems.

as for ghosts not stopping brick break, it kinda needs to hit to break screens, y'know? like rapid spin?

as for starmie, I dunno how you have problems with mixape, as it really can't switch in except after a snorlax pursuit, form which you can switch to rotom on the cc and force it out. in the meantime, scarfzard outspeeds and kills it, rotom outspeeds and kills it, gyara sets up on it, zong survives and kills it, and sdluke kills it with the +2. so basically if it can only switch in after kills and you have solid revenge killers, what's the ape problem anyways?

also, dormin, dont you want to even test out my suggestions before implementing them? good in theory and actually good are very different. I'd test them myself, but my shoddy is acting up atm.

edit: yea, rotom-c over rotom-w, sorry I didn't articulate that properly.

I am prolly gonna end up stealing this team because I really do like it. *waits for sots rate*

edit2: if sot cant think of anything, imma go ahead and 5star this team, which is one of the pleasant needles in this haystack of badly made offensive teams.
 
To be honest Stathakis, I can't thoroughly test the team for about a week =(. I can't get Shoddy here at the Academy, but I'm getting a new computer and probably my own internet, so I'll be able to play consistently again really soon. This team isn't all theorymon though--it is based on the team I used to use with great success a long time ago. Scarfzard is my favorite lol--I'll probably end up posting the set into Platinum updates at some point. Feel free to test the team--I would love some feedback since I'm itching to try it out =D.
 
Hey Dormin, glad to see your back posting. Been a while since I've actually seen you battle, but it looks like you adjusted to platinum fine.

For your lead, Charizard seems a little weird as a lead, so I would just reccomend that you try either a Scarf Zapdos as a lead. Scarf Dos is a great pokemon with the new addition of Heat Wave, he comes as an unexpected suprise to many, and will be a good check in to +1 Gyarados and Salamence, who -could- give this team trouble if they find out that you're Heatproof.

I really think this team is a great team, Stathakis gave you an amazing rate, and really not much can trouble you right now. There are only a few pokemon I see that can give you any real trouble and those would Salamence/Tyranitar.

Mix Tyranitar, will give your team a lot of trouble with the unpredictibilty of what attack he's gonna be hitting you with, and you're probably going to end up Sacrificing a few pokemon just to take him down. Once he finds out that you're running Heatproof, you're gonna have a whole lot of trouble then. I'd really only consider running Gyro Ball on your Bronzong, that's probably the safest way to go as it'll cover the next 2 variants I see that can give you trouble.

DD Tar can also give you a ton of trouble seeing as once it sets up, it's outspeeding your whole team, bar Charizard but with SR and SS in play, he probably won't be seeing the battlefield that long. Again, Heatproof is a really risky move, and if they exploit it, than you're basically screwed. This is another reason why I would run Gyro ball, so that you have a check in on these Stat uppers. You could even run a Scizor over your Lucario, so that you can bullet punch the bastard to hell, which ever idea you think would be more beneficiary to the team.

MixMence could also trouble this teamm as it can OHKO, or 2HKO your entire team. CB Snorlax should do the job, but I'm really just pointing out pokemon that can trouble you. I would consider trying to fit in a Swampert over Snorlax, a CB Pert could be just as useful, but I think you'd be lacking in the Sp. Def area, but with the screens up I think that you should be fine.

Again, this really isn't a rate since Stathakis said all that needed to be said. He gave you an excellent rate, and I really don't think there is all that much to add onto it. This is just more of me making sure you're aware of these common threats. If you ever post an RMT, I'll rate it before Stath so I could be a bit more helpful. =P

Good to see you back. ^_^

Edit: You should try getting SR on that zong, but you really can't afford to drop a move. You're just gonna have to go with your better judgement there.

As for the rotom thing, I would goo with Rotom-h, since it would help you out more on the offensive, but then having 2 pokemon with Overheat seem a bit redundant to me.
 
Well wow, some great rates. I agree with a lot of what your saying, and I think that with at least a game plan for stuff like T-tar and Salamence I should be alright. I am juggling that Bronzong move slot quite a bit right now between EQ, Gyro Ball, and Stealth Rock....I guess each will have to be tested to see what is most effective. Levitate versus Heatproof is always a gamble, and I think I'll try both when I get the chance, since Light Screen essentially negates the fire weak.

Hmmm Scizor v. Luke is a debate I've come upon quite a few times, but I think in this case Luke is the superior choice with his rock resist and potency under screens (with scizor's 4x fire weak....not so much). I could always put bullet punch over e-speed as a weakened DDtar counter.

And as for ScarfZard as a lead....I think that the fact that it is "weird" is its strength. It starts off the battle with the opponent thinking "this is probably a noob running a bellyzard lead" or "wtf is this guy doing?" Either way I think it might cause mild desperation. I can see a common lead Azelf using Taunt or Psychic first turn just to be wary of it, which would result in a 2hko of azelf and no rocks. Its stuff I think about at least. Plus ya gotta love the Blaze =D. One thing that happened when I used him in the past was that everyone and their mom knew I ran a Scarfzard lead after awhile, so I think I can fluctuate between Scarf and Specs (with a different moveset) over time. Gotta keep the opposition on their toes =D

Rotom-w will probably be switched to Rotom-h in a few minutes, since 3 people have recommended it and another fire attack is always welcome. Also Bullet Punch over E-speed as well.

Thanks for pointing out threats I should keep in mind SoT--much appreciated.

Yes! My praise of Stathakis' rate made his sig! =D

EDIT: And stars? O_o I expected this to be absolutely torn apart. I'm happy to see it looks good, and huge kudos to Stathakis and SoT for amazing rates. I never thought I'd make a starable thread *tear*
 
Whoa, it appears with all these team raters I'm a little late for suggestion making! It appears Statha / SoT covered most of what i would have suggested. Oh well, I still have a few comments.


I think I played this team actually. Anyway.

Charizard: So, what exactly is the point of leading with Charizard? You have that 50% Stealth Rock weakness that you have no way of getting rid of, this just hinders the team. What exactly does this have over say a Choice Scarf Infernape? You can run Fire Blast / Hidden Power Ice / Close Combat / U-Turn or Grass Knot. The coverage of Flying + Fire is incredibly redundant so outside of the lucky flinch rate you have lost nothing by switching to Infernape. Infernape's higher Speed will also help in revenge killing DD Salamence, DD Tyranitar (who really hurts this team), etc. The only marginal loss I see in losing Charizard for Infernape is you lost the ability to revenge kill DD Gyarados with Air Slash. However, with your own Gyarados; Dual Screen Bronzong, Choice Scarf Rotom, & a priority-move Lucario I don't see how you should have any trouble with DD Gyara. Also the Stealth Rock weakness "overrides" any benefit from an Earthquake immunity over Infernape. I'm going to suggest switching Bronzong to Levitate later anyway so you'll gain the immunity back anyway. In short, I'd switch this to Scarf Infernape. This also reminds me, I still have to add this Scarf Charizard too the analysis page too. Anyway moving on.

Gyarados: If you are going to take advantage of dual screens, I think you should use a bulkier spread. With this strategy you should typically net around 2 DDs so maximum Speed is largely unnecessary anyway. Play around with a more defensive spread. By investing even a a bit of HP you can take those Rotom's or Starmie's Thunderbolts under the Light Screen much easier and aid in setting up. I'd really consider it.

Bronzong: Heatproof Bronzong is a gimmick. Always has been and always will be. It's just an inferior ability. If you take my advice and make Gyarados bulkier you'll be fine switching into Infernape (this Bronzong loses to physical Infernape anyway so if you are worried about SD Thunderpunch Bronzong isn't going to help you). With Scarf Ape or Charizard (preferably Ape since I suggested it lol) you will also have an adequate check against it. I don't see Infernape being enough of a problem to warrant the use of the significantly inferior Heatproof. Now, I'm of the personal believe that every team needs Stealth Rock on it. For that reason, I'm going to suggest you get Stealth Rock in Bronzong. It's really necessary for Gyarados, Salamence, Zapdos (charizard !_!) etc.

Snorlax: I hope you are using Shiny Snorlax because regular Snorlax sucks. If you aren't using it, I guarantee by switching to shiny lax your teams win rate will improve by at least 60%. Alright, let's see here. I've used Body Slam over Return for the paralysis chance before, but I was very disappointed. I'd really, really suggest you consider Return. The power drop is too substantial on your STAB for a little shot at paralysis. I also don't understand this notion that your team is slow. You have a Timid Choice Scarf Rotom, a Modest Choice Scarf Charizard (hopefully Ape !_!), and a priority Jolly Lucario. That's not a slow team in my opinion. I don't understand what Crunch is for. It doesn't do enough to Cresselia and frail things like Azelf and Gengar are already screwed by Pursuit. I'd really put Superpower on it to better cover 252 HP Scizor, Tyranitar, Blissey, Heatran, Skarmory which the rest of your move set lacks the ability to damage really.

Lucario: ExtremeSpeed is significantly better. Bullet Punch is exclusively for Gengar and with Pursuit Snorlax you should be fine against it. Now the nature. I personally think you have enough security against Salamence (Gliscor & Zapdos are non-threats to this team) so Jolly with Ice Punch seems pointless. However, this team is going to have a lot of trouble getting past Reflect Cresselia / Uxie and so I'm going to recommend switching to an Adamant nature and using Crunch.

It seems like DP will be, more than anything else, about having a certain strategy, planning, and executing that strategy. There is simply too much to counter in too few pokemon and moves; at this point one can never hope to be able to counter everything.

I agree with that. Which is mostly why I haven't chanced your team a great deal.

Your Biggest Threats (Explaining more in depth why I made the changes I did).

Salamence: DD Salamence is painful for you, extremely painful. After a single Dragon Dance it outruns everything and can threaten to OHKO / 2HKO every member with Life Orb Outrage. The Salamence + Magnezone combination is extremely effective and Bronzong is your only real shot at handling Salamence so I'm very concerned about the Salamence weakness. My solutions to this consist of putting Stealth Rock on Bronzong to wear it down on entry. Switching to Adamant Lucario with ExtremeSpeed. That should be a sufficient check for you. A bulkier Gyarados spread will also help with this threat.

Tyranitar: CB Tyranitar gives this team issues. Nothing really switches into it well. Outside of Lucario nothing really switches into Crunch at all and Lucario is obviously vulnerable to Earthquake or Fire Punch (even Aqua Tail dents it pretty hard). The Pursuit against Rotom isn't very much fun either. DD Tyranitar has the potential to cause a lot of havoc as well (it's what I used against you so I know it hurts your team). Charizard is your only really "check" against it and with the unreliability of Focus Blast, 50% Stealth Rock weakness, and Sands Stream taking away it's health. I'm confident to say that this is not a sufficient check. Choice Scarf Infernape helps to cover this better all around. Lucario + Scarf Infernape should be enough to keep your Tyranitar weakness in check.

Cresselia / Uxie: These two are annoying as hell for you. Adamant Crunch Lucario helps here :D

Not to much, nice job. My small fixes hopefully helped to patch them up as well !

Good team.
 
Hahah thanks Caelum for another great rate. The funny thing is, I was thinking about Superpower on Lax and Crunch on Luke just last night. I really like Superpower's ability to put a dent in Skarm, so I'll put that in. Crunch and E-speed is also a better combo I think. Thanks for that.

I do know the potency of the maggy+dragon combo--before I left the game for awhile the only strategy I used was Maggy+Garchomp. I'll probably end up giving Gyara a bulkier spread like you suggested, and either put Taunt on there or Ice Fang over Stone Edge.

Stealth Rock is something I can see helping a ton on this team as well, since Luke misses out on quite a few OHKOs without it. It'll be replacing EQ on Zong most likely along with Levitate. If Maggy really starts to become a problem, then I'll probably slap a Shed Shell on it. Though with Stealth Rock as an addition over EQ, Bronzong is looking like its coming in once, setting up its moves, and then Exploding. Perhaps Shed Shell would work with SR over Explosion, and maybe Gyro Ball over Earthquake to counter my two biggest threats....Thoughts?

Why must Infernape always be better than Charizard! lol I'll mull that one over for awhile, and while Infernape is definitely the superior choice from a first-glance standpoint, I think I can try to justify Zard's usage. Outside of Sandstream, Stealth Rock is going to allow Zard to come in and revenge kill twice, activating Blaze on the second and allowing a potential sweep. The only thing stopping such a sweep is Heatran late-game, which will be a problem to surprise kill if I take EQ off of Bronzong. Perhaps more important is Charizard's surprise factor over Scarfnape, which I'll try to explain. Though Scarf Infernape is uncommon, a fast u-turn on an opposing starter like Azelf is going to set off the opponent to its scarf. Thus, I find U-turn in this case to be disadvantageous. Besides, when the opponent discovers the ruse, Infernape is only ever going to be able to force out stuff like Tyranitar and Mence. If I go with more speed on Charizard, I should be able to beat DDMence, and no one thinks a Charizard will be able to KO their precious Mence or T-tar (even if the kill on T-tar is "unreliable"). Do most DDmence run max speed adamant these days? If so I might try a different spread. Plus, as I said in a previous post, fear of a Bellyzard starter, and the fact that Bellyzard is commonly considered Charizard's only competitive moveset, will easily play to my advantage by forcing the opponent into desperation moves early game. Plus, I have been considering Choice Specs Charizard over Scarf, which might play more to my "bellyzard" advantage by OHKOing a Swampert switch-in with HP Grass, and OHKOing most Tyranitar with Focus Blast. Food for thought I guess, and I would like your stance considering what I've just said.

I haven't even used this team yet, so you probably faced SoT or Stathakis playtesting it =D

Thanks again.

EDIT: Updated the OP with Caelum's suggestions. I added an alternate EV spread for Charizard which reaches 450 speed, thus outspeeding neutral natured Salamence after a DD and OHKOing. Not sure how effective it will be, and it'll all depend on whether Bronzong has Gyro Ball. I'm still wondering how Bronzong should look--I really do need Stealth Rock on there, but I also want Earthquake/Gyro Ball....Perhaps a Shed Shell with Dualscreens, Stealth Rock, and GB/EQ? I'm thinking Gyro Ball might be the best option to counter my two biggest threats--DDtar and DDmence. Still trying to figure out the best bulky Gyarados spread...I'm guessing my old buddy Raikoulover can help with that =D
 
Agree with caelum on snorlax. if you are going 100% offensive, the power boost is needed, i know this, being a firm snorlax supporter (Y).
On the other hand, i think heatproof bronzong isnt nessecerally a gimmick. While he loses the ability to switch into EQ's, (Which 3 of your team at the moment can do anyway), Almost every zong in the world is levitate, so they almost definitley wont bother wasting an EQ on you. By the time time they work it out, screens are up an zong is out.
As for the rest, im going to agree with the masses and recomend a different Lead. charizard cant really hit that much in OU, apart from the obvious omnipresent scizor. Even so, scizor isnt that much of a common lead, and you still have a rotom to potentially end his fun, either by tricking over a choice scarf on a Swords dance or OHKO'ing with overheat.
If your heart really is set on charizard, you could switch Rotom for
Starmie@Lefties
Timid, Natural cure
160 HP / 132 SpA / 216 Spe
~ Ice beam/ Thunderbolt
~ Rapid spin
~ Recover
~ Surf

(Obviously i did not create this set lol)
It gives you a few good new options
~Firstly, Rapid spin will definitley keep charizard around alot longer
~Although first off you may say "You have 3 Electric weakness' now" having CBlax allows you to switch out to the lard lad on a suspected T-bolt, and then "Ram a pusuit up its ass".
~With 7-8 turns of screens (i forget how much) starmie will have a lot better defensive capabilities, boosted by recover.
If the purple star does not appeal to you, and you want to try somthing other than Scarfape/Scarzard, i think that the most underrated lead ever might give you some cool new tricks

Yanmega@Expert belt
Speed Boost, Modest
~ Protect
~ Bug Buzz
~ Air Slash
~ Hypnosis/HP Ice/Ground

Sadly, you keep the 4x SR weakness, but i really think that he does Charizards job a whole lot better. He gets ridiculous speed with his ability, good coverage, and some much needed status support for your team. Bug Buzz absolutley murders Celebi and the occasional Exeggutor, and does loads to any other psychic or grass, and Air Slash gets a pretty decent 30% flinch chance, hitting any fighters.
Your team looks as tough as nails, Is it on Wi-fi or shoddy?
P.s sorry if this isnt a good rate, im just going to try my best :P
 
I apologize if I seem like I'm adamant about Charizard but it really has been very successful in the past, and I very much disagree with it "not being able to hit much in OU". The set has some really great coverage, can do a number on most of the common leads nowadays, and force even a smart opponent's hand if they believe he is a bellyzard. Though many leads can go in his place, I think choice of lead on this team is essentially preference as a lot can go in his spot if its fast enough/has a scarf. Plus I like to switch up the scarf with specs sometimes, so that even redo opponents will get a surprise. As I've said before, I have a ton of experience with the set--lol if you look at the trend graph for Charizard lead usage on shoddybattle.com, you'll see a huge spike for March of this year, when it rose to 25th most common lead. I'd like to think this had a lot to do with me xD

I'm still open about it though, and I could use any feedback on changes in the set, like specs over scarf or maybe Focus Punch with something like a Hasty nature, so I could put some Atk EVs to KO or seriously cripple Blissey once the scarf has been revealed.

I'll definitely try both Heatproof and Levitate as well, since I had originally thought Heatproof for that initial surprise, which would allow both screens to get up. But for the sake of covering my threats, I think Levitate might be the better nature. Oh, and this is for shoddy, though if it does well enough I would probably make it on a cart.

I think the team will be ready to go once I figure out what Bronzong's final set should look like (I'll probably keep explosion).

Thanks! More input would be greatly valued.
 
Back
Top