Help with this team.

Credits to Indra for helping with this team.

The Team:


Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed || Torrent
240 HP / 252 Defence / 16 Speed
~Stealth Rock
~Protect
~Ice Beam
~Earthquake

Gets rock down, 2HKO's Aero, can take out Heatran and Tyranitar, it's a fair lead. Protect to help scout explosion, trick, and choice stuff. And an extra bit of health with leftovers is nice also. It's a pretty basic set. If Azelf comes around, BandTar gets sent in. Swampert can help out later in the game



Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Adamant || Sand Stream
252 Attack / 248 HP / 8 Speed
~Crunch
~Stone Edge
~Earthquake
~Pursuit

This is a standard CBTar set. Nothing that special. The speed it to go past 4 speed tyranitar's or things that try and go past tyranitar by 1. This thing is present to help take care of latias along with Scizor, and him and latias can take special attacks well. I like having two powerful pursuits on my team, it's quite handy, and he's the first. He also helps take down some stall stuff.



Latias @ Choice Scarf
Timid || Levitate
252 Sp. Attack / 180 Speed / 76 HP
~Draco Meteor
~Surf
~Thunderbolt
~HP Fighting

Speed to go past +1 positive natured salamence so he can revenge. HP Fighting for TTar switches so he can take them out, draco for power, TBolt so he can switch in and take out Gyarados, surf for helping out with Heatran. Latias helps get rid of a lot of things that can stop a Lucario sweep, and if he gets pursuited by a choice user Luke gets free setup, so they work well together. Scarf Latias is quite awesome, I'm surprised I don't see more.



Zapdos @ Leftovers
Bold || Pressure
252 HP / 220 Defence / 36 Speed
~Thunderbolt
~Heat Wave
~Roost
~Thunderwave

A good Scizor switch in was needed. Without this guy, SD-Scizor could sweep my team without all that much trouble. And I needed something to take fighting and ground attacks. Thunderwave helps let my two slow banders get hits in easier, so that was chosen over other support options.



Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant || Inner Focus
252 Attack / 252 Speed / 6 HP
~Close Combat
~Crunch
~ExtremeSpeed
~Swords Dance

If latias gets pursuited by the common BandTar or CBScizor this guy gets free setup. With the large amounts of pursuit being run it's quite easy to set him up, and his typing is great to go along with Latias. And latias can take out gyarados and some other things that bother him, so they work well together.



Scizor @ Choice Band
Adamant || Technician
252 Attack / 200 HP / 56 Speed
~Bullet Punch
~U-Turn
~Superpower
~Pursuit

Fairly standard. Maxing out speed with little to no speed investment seems like a poor decision when he has such great typing and decent defensive stats, so he only has enough speed to go past tyranitars built to go past Skarmory, things slightly above that. This guy is great for scouting and revenge killing. My team is quite slow outside of latias, so the few priority attacks are needed to get around that. Though, Luke shouldn't be brought out early just to revenge stuff, so this guy was needed.

And if anybody cares, the people that I got to test this team (Biglsworth/Indra and ShinyGuru) got it to mid-twenties in both standard and suspect (Suspect had latias switched for latios). They both got bored with the team fairly quickly though, and only tested it for a day or two.

Type chart:



Nothing has more than two weaknesses, and the bulk of the team resists bullet punch making it harder for opposing Scizor's to revenge stuff. Everything that does have a weakness has at least the same number of resists.

Threat List:

1) Aero - Scizor, Swampert
2) 'Zam - Tyranitar, Latias, Scizor
3) Azelf - Tyranitar, Latias, Scizor
4) Blissey - Scizor, Lucario, Tyranitar
5) Breloom - Zapdos, Latias, Scizor
6) Bronzong - Scizor, Zapdos
7) Celebi - Scizor, Tyranitar, Zapdos
8) Cresselia - Scizor, Tyranitar
9) Donphan - Swampert
10) Dragonite - Swampert, Latias
11) Dugtrio - Swampert, Scizor, Luke
12) Dusknoir - Tyranitar, Scizor
13) Electivire - Swampert, Latias, Luke
14) Empoleon - Swampert when Surf/IB, Latias when Surf/GK
15) Flygon - Zapdos, Latias, Swampert
16) Forry - Zapdos, Latias
17) Gliscor - Swampert, Latias
18) Gyarados - Latias, Luke (ES revenge)
19) Heatran - Swampert, Tyranitar, Heatran
20) Heracross - Zapdos, Swampert
21) Hippo - Swampert, Latias
22) Ape - Latias, Zapdos
23) Jirachi - Zapdos, Swampert
24) Jolteon - Swampert, Tyranitar
25) Kingdra - Swampert, Latias
26) Latias - Scizor, Tyranitar, Latias
27) Luke - Swampert, Zapdos, ES or BP after -1 defence.
28) Machamp - Zapdos, Swampert
29) Magnezone - Swampert, Latias, Tyranitar
30) Mamo - Scizor, Swampert
31) Metagross - Swampert, Zapdos, Scizor
32) Ninjask - Scizor, Luke, Stealth rock
33) PZ - Tyranitar, Latias
34) Rhyperior - Swampert, Luke, Scizor
35) Mence - Swampert, Latias, Scizor, Luke
36) Scizor - Zapdos, Swampert
37) Skarm - Zapdos, Latias
38) Snorlax - Tyranitar, Scizor, Luke
39) Rotom-X - Tyranitar, Latias, Scizor.
40) Starmie - Zapdos, Latias
41) Suicune - Zapdos, Latias, Swamert
42) Swampert - Scizor, Latias
43) Tenta - Zapdos, Tyranitar
44) Tyranitar - Swampert, Luke, Scizor
45) Togekiss - Zapdos, Swampert, Scizor
46) Vaporeon - Latias, Zapdos
47) Weavile - Scizor, Swampert
48) Yanmega - Zapdos, Scizor, Luke
49) Zapdos - Swampert, Latias, Tyranitar

Threat list was made pretty quickly, so something might be wrong. I know I missed some ways to get rid of stuff also, the list was is just to show some thought did go into this team, and it does have ways to get around everything. Some are counters, some are to revenge, I assume you can figure that out.

This team is amazing. The only problem i see is vs a Gyara if your Latias dies, you might lose =/. I recommend maybe roar on Swampert so it won't be much of a threat. lol.


I'll try it out and see how it is ^_^.

Light-Kun said:

This team is amazing. The only problem i see is vs a Gyara if your Latias dies, you might lose =/. I recommend maybe roar on Swampert so it won't be much of a threat. lol.


I'll try it out and see how it is ^_^.

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When Latias dies before gyara comes out it is a pain, but after stealth rock damage he can be taken out by an extreme speed followed by a bullet punch. You do have to lose somebody, but he can be taken out without latias.

Seems to be a solid team, but you really have to look out for mixed mence, but this is only beatable with the right predictions so that is not a too big deal
If anyone has pursuitscizor + ddgyara you also will have big problems if he plays well
I'd also say you should use tar with 178 spd (I do not mean evs), as it skarmory then, the only problem is that you will perhaps have some problems in pursuiting latias

Sapientia said:

Seems to be a solid team, but you really have to look out for mixed mence, but this is only beatable with the right predictions so that is not a too big deal
If anyone has pursuitscizor + ddgyara you also will have big problems if he plays well
I'd also say you should use tar with 178 spd (I do not mean evs), as it skarmory then, the only problem is that you will perhaps have some problems in pursuiting latias

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MixMence goes down without much trouble with rocks, orb, sand, and then a priority attack. And killing Latias early on and then trying to set up on Gyara is annoying, but an ES then BP finishes off gyarados after rocks, not taking into account any sand or orb damage.

And the 'Tar actually originally did have speed to kill Skarmory, but the team has so much stuff to kill Skarm it was decided that the extra bulk would help more.

Bosgoed said:

MixMence goes down without much trouble with rocks, orb, sand, and then a priority attack. And killing Latias early on and then trying to set up on Gyara is annoying, but an ES then BP finishes off gyarados after rocks, not taking into account any sand or orb damage.

And the 'Tar actually originally did have speed to kill Skarmory, but the team has so much stuff to kill Skarm it was decided that the extra bulk would help more.

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I'd still use Tyranitar with more speed to take out also swampert and scizor, but the bulk is also nice, so stay with it if you prefere bulk

You are right with Mence and Gyara, but I would still be careful :)

Sapientia said:

I'd still use Tyranitar with more speed to take out also swampert and scizor, but the bulk is also nice, so stay with it if you prefere bulk

You are right with Mence and Gyara, but I would still be careful :)

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Scizor is naturally faster and a lot invest heavily in speed (45.4% invest at least 200 EV's), so trying to go past him wouldn't do much, and I'd lose considerable bulk if I tried to do so. And swampert usually invests nothing in speed (92.5% of them), so I don't think speed would help against him either. I'll be outspeeding him as is. And the bulk is great for switching in Latias, Heatran, etc.

Heracross weak much? CB Cross kills Pert. Predicted stone edges kill zapdos. Zapdos can be a counter but still problematic IMO.

NightFalcon said:

Heracross weak much? CB Cross kills Pert. Predicted stone edges kill zapdos. Zapdos can be a counter but still problematic IMO.

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Not really problematic at all.

~Zapdos can switch in on it's two most common attacks.
~Swampert can switch in on stone edge.
~Easily revenge killed by half my team.
~Heracross isn't very bulky, and has a hard time switching in.
~After the damage from sand and rocks, my priority users can easily get rid of him.

A banded heracross can be stopped with Swampert/Zapdos, and any kind that needs to set up is easily forced out and bullet punched and killed after rock and sand damage. Like nearly every team without a Gliscor Heracross can hit hard against everyone, but lucky, prediction and the fact that Heracross is usually choiced help that.

It depends on how well you predict vs how well the other person does. Not to say you're not good but you're going to get wrecked if you're not careful.

Also, tell me you didn't just list Swampert as a Togekiss counter. Are you kidding? >________>

NightFalcon said:

It depends on how well you predict vs how well the other person does. Not to say you're not good but you're going to get wrecked if you're not careful.

Also, tell me you didn't just list Swampert as a Togekiss counter. Are you kidding? >________>

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The point he's trying to make here is that He has several checks to Heracross. Albeit none of them are 100% guaranteed, you can't make the claim that he's Hera weak if he has several Pokes which can stop it (particularly Zapdos). It's actually rather easy to know what move your opponent plans to use with Hera if you can identify their style of prediction early in the match. ie:if he always uses a STAB move without much consideration for the outside surroundings, you can suspect that Megahorn or CC is coming. If he has seen your Zapdos previously in the match, it'd be wiser to send in Pert since a Stone Edge is inevitable.

Togekiss doesn't appear to be a huge threat for this team, but your Swampert set is not made for Togekiss countering. Also, what are those 16 SpD EVs on Swampert for? They don't look to be helping out much (if at all), in which case I'd just invest them in an offensive stat.

NightFalcon said:

It depends on how well you predict vs how well the other person does. Not to say you're not good but you're going to get wrecked if you're not careful.

Also, tell me you didn't just list Swampert as a Togekiss counter. Are you kidding? >________>

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Like what has already been mentioned, I have enough checks to keep Heracross down.

And like I said after the threat list, not everything on it is a counter. Some things are just for keeping stuff in check, helping out absorb status, revenge, whatever. Look at what I put beneath the check list. Swampert helps with the Togekiss that like to try and thunderwave my team, because nobody else likes to be hit with thunderwave.

Olie said:

The point he's trying to make here is that He has several checks to Heracross. Albeit none of them are 100% guaranteed, you can't make the claim that he's Hera weak if he has several Pokes which can stop it (particularly Zapdos). It's actually rather easy to know what move your opponent plans to use with Hera if you can identify their style of prediction early in the match. ie:if he always uses a STAB move without much consideration for the outside surroundings, you can suspect that Megahorn or CC is coming. If he has seen your Zapdos previously in the match, it'd be wiser to send in Pert since a Stone Edge is inevitable.

Togekiss doesn't appear to be a huge threat for this team, but your Swampert set is not made for Togekiss countering. Also, what are those 16 SpD EVs on Swampert for? They don't look to be helping out much (if at all), in which case I'd just invest them in an offensive stat.

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Like I said above, the threat list isn't for just countering. I'm thinking nobody read my full post <_<.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out the mistake on Swampert. It's actually not supposed to be special defence or an attacking stat, but speed to go past bulky tyranitar's, ones that are built the same as mine.

this teams only weakness, is cm celebi,

Dark Wolf said:

this teams only weakness, is cm celebi,

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If they're offensive then Zapdos can easily switch in and Thunderwave (Assuming the standard CM / Recover / HP Fire / GK) and then switch in Tyranitar on the HP Fire or Scizor on the attack, or stall it and wait for it to kill Zapdos and then get a free switch and kill it with pursuit. And if it's defensive, then Tyranitar and Scizor can switch in, and it can't OHKO with grass knot after a calm mind while Tyranitar can OHKO. And the offensive version can be revenged by both Lucario and Scizor.

Take it to PM