DPP Ubers Dancing In The Rain - Uber Ludicolo Team

Overview

For those of you that know me, you'll know I love Ubers in comparison to the other tiers. Ludicolo is an odd Pokémon on this Uber team, and this team has been very successful for me (a variation of it peaked at #7 on the ladder) and I know a few others have used this team and enjoyed relative success with it. The team basically softens the opponent up for a Palkia sweep.

The whole idea of the team was originally to show what a force Ludicolo is in Ubers, using it to support the rest of my team mates in aiding a late-game Palkia sweep.

Team

Groudon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 12 SDef / 28 Spe
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
Purposely avoiding the usage of Deoxys-S, I plucked for Groudon as my lead. The hopefully early usage of Stealth Rock means I can wear the opponent down from the start of the match. It helps the team deal with Lugia with much more ease, and often limits Life Orb Rayquaza if I find myself in a sticky situation.

Roar is your standard move, and gives me a get out clause under many situations. If Giratina-O manages to grab a Calm Mind or Substitute on any of my Pokémon I can use Groudon's Roar to stop any sweeping attempts, now having more information about the opposing Pokémon which I can use to play around with later. It also helps against teams that use Lugia as their sole Groudon switch-in, as the Stealth Rock damage really kicks in.

While Groudon is my lead, often I am unable to attain that much wanted early Stealth Rock. However, Groudon's bulk allows it to often come in mid-game and set up Stealth Rock for Palkia's late-game sweep.

Now for the last moveslot, Flamethrower. One day I was discussing the team with Kinneas, and previously I was using Dragon Claw. However, the thought of Forretress leads setting up entry hazards early game was not nice, and Kinneas brought up the idea of Fire Blast netting a surprise OHKO, meaning it couldn't set up its hazards mid-game either. Eventually I decided to pluck for Flamethrower, because it is OHKOing Careful 252 HP / 252 SDef Forretress 92% of the time, which is better than Fire Blast. Fire Blast also only OHKOes 252 HP / 0 SDef Skarmory 34.88% of the time (factoring in accuracy), so I would prefer to run Flamethrower for a solid 2HKO anyway. Early game I will often Earthquake Forretress to fool the opponent into thinking I do not carry Fire Punch, allowing me to then see what they do and act accordingly.

Lum Berry helps against Darkrai leads with Focus Sash, as I can take the Dark Void and Earthquake, let Kyogre sleep and then go to Scizor to Bullet Punch. Groudon's resistance to Stealth Rock also meant I was less worried about not having Leftovers gain.

Maximum HP is generally beneficial defensively, and 216 Defense EVs gives Groudon a bonus stat point with an Impish nature. The Speed EVs allow me to outspeed 24 Speed Kyogre (Rest & Sleep Talk versions). It also allows me to beat minimum Speed Dialga and obviously opposing Groudon, allowing me to beat the latter to the Roar. 12 Special Defense EVs help against a threat I have unfortunately forgotten.

The obvious downside to Groudon is Drought. Drought really fails to benefit the team like rain does, which is quite frustrating. However, Groudon is generally used for tough scenarios as a go-to guy in matches, meaning I try to avoid switching Groudon in when possible. Kyogre also has enough bulk to switch in often and start up Drizzle. Groudon is especially helpful in taking Thunders from Kyogre, that not much of my team likes taking.
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Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 176 HP / 116 Atk / 216 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Roost
- U-turn
Helping against Toxic Mewtwo is really useful, as often they are loaded up on Special Defense, which obviously causes Palkia problems. Kyogre can often beat these Mewtwo but it eats a lot of my PP due to Pressure, which is often vital when it comes to the end of a match.

Bullet Punch helps pick off weakened threats, and Pursuit often helps if I need to get a Choice Scarf Palkia or Mewtwo out of the way. Scizor has an important role of dealing with Deoxys-A via Bullet Punch.

Scizor is also vital in picking of Latias who can also be a bit annoying to the team. 204 SpA Latias's +1 Thunder boosted by Soul Dew fails to OHKO Scizor, and I can obviously play games with Bullet Punch / Pursuit / U-turn against Substitute Latias. Roost is vital as it means Scizor can often threaten a U-turn and quickly heal back up, giving me the upper hand against these threats once more. Scizor also helps against certain Giratina-O.

Life Orb generally is just useful. Scizor often seems to be taking more damage than it is because of Life Orb, but it gives Scizor an extra kick that it needs in the Uber metagame, while retaining its freedom.
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Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
Dialga keeps the team working, and provides more of a mid-game powerhouse than anything. Often Dialga can come in and just spam Draco Meteor to cause hurt to something at least, which is especially useful against more offensively-based teams which aren't caused as many problems by Dragon Pulse, as Draco Meteor allows me to consistently do the damage through Dialga's high Speed (courtesy of Choice Scarf).

Dragon Pulse is more of a "this attack needs to hit" move. It doesn't have a huge window of use, but is really useful against Swords Dance Rayquaza and Adamant Dragon Dance Rayquaza, who both threaten me without Dialga.

Thunder is always useful for Kyogre, as it gives me a backup plan should Ludicolo faint and I not want to bring out Palkia yet. Thunder also helps against Lugia over a longer spread of time, and paralysis often helps with this. Lugia is unable to Roost before Thunder hit's which is obviously very nice!

Fire Blast helps against Scizor. Scizor is thoroughly annoying to be honest, as it can give me real problems if it gets in on Ludicolo / Sleep Talk Kyogre. Dialga can Fire Blast, helping stop any Scizor predicting a Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse.
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Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
I still don't understand why people don't use Ludicolo. I think most people who have tried it have had amazing success with Ludicolo, and it fits on so many teams it's incredible. Ludicolo is not on the team as a "gimmick", or a bit of fun. It's here to do a job, which it does do, successfully.

Leech Seed & Protect makes up the majority of stalling. Rain Dish is pretty amazing with Leftovers & Protect, netting me 12.5% HP back per turn in the rain, allowing me to stall with Substitute & Protect if need be. Leech Seed puts Ludicolo in a position where it is a bit like "Stallrein" on steroids. If a Pokémon has 404 HP (hi Kyogre, Manaphy, Groudon, Dialga, and Jirachi) I am gaining 50 HP per turn. If you count in Rain Dish & Leftovers, suddenly I am gaining a ton of HP which allows Ludicolo to cause devastation to teams through Protect.

Ludicolo can often laugh off Blissey. I can Substitute all over Toxic, and I only really fear Seismic Toss. If Blissey is effectively spamming Seismic Toss and I am unsure on whether it has Toxic or not, I can often simply just use Substitute and Protect to annoy it. If Ludicolo gets a Leech Seed on Blissey though, it's pretty fun wearing it out of Softboiled or Wish PP. It also helps as I can do the whole "Substitute + Protect until at full HP" thing.

Protect also helps scout Choice users which is always an advantage.

I have no fear switching in to Kyogre barring Choice Specs Thunders, where I can then go to Groudon and Roar / Earthquake. This is because I can then Protect, and due to Rain Dish and Leftovers Kyogre becomes less of a threat. Choice Specs Water Spout only manages 40% maximum to Ludicolo which is an insane amount of damage considering its power. I can then Leech Seed etc and start stalling. If against Choice Scarf Kyogre I will just Substitute straight away, helping if the opponent switches out. The opponent won't be able to easily set up on Ludicolo either if they switch to the likes of Swords Dance Rayquaza as I Substitute: if it Swords Dances it will lose to Substitute, Protect, & Leech Seed (provided I got the Substitute on the switch).

Leech Seed is also helpful for a Palkia sweep, and often gives Scizor the edge over many threats.

Ludicolo is also generally my first switch in to Palkia and special Dialga provided it's raining. Choice Specs Dialga does too much with Draco Meteor, though, but I can generally play around such a threat.
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Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spe
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
I wanted Drizzle obviously for Ludicolo, so I needed Kyogre. I also wanted a 100% good switch in to Toxic / Seismic Toss Blissey that could take it on (Scizor struggles to, as does Dialga). Rest & Sleep Talk Kyogre fits the bill perfectly, also giving me a sleep taker (screw you Darkrai). Calm Mind allows me to beat non Calm Mind Giratina, Blissey, and so on.

Kyogre is helpful against Choice Scarf Garchomp (Banded versions are somewhat handled by Dialga). Kyogre is often able to actually set up on the likes of Palkia (a common Kyogre switch in) because of Rest. The Defense EVs really aid me in a cause of beating Rock Polish Groudon, who is annoying.

There really isn't much to say about Kyogre. It does exactly what it says on the tin.
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Palkia @ Expert Belt
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 100 Atk / 156 SAtk / 252 Spe
Hasty nature (+Spe, -Def)
- Focus Punch
- Spacial Rend
- Substitute
- Thunder

Palkia can come in late-game on a Pokémon it can force out and use Substitute (the best move in the game). Focus Punch OHKOes Blissey meaning I don't have to worry about it if it isn't gone yet. Spacial Rend packs the bags for Giratina, and Thunder helps rampage Kyogre and Lugia. Mix Palkia is pretty useful against stall too!

Palkia is so good at just coming in and finishing off teams. Palkia can also act as a go-to guy against Kyogre as a last resort, and is generally what the team is about!

I purposely avoided Life Orb so I don't have to go down the whole "damn, 4 turns to KO 5 Pokémon :(" route.

Conclusion

I think to many Ludicolo is probably still seen as a gimmick - the damage calculations don't particularly look nice. However, after you actually face one, or play with one, you see how horribly useful it is to carry on a team.

As I said I have had pretty good success with this team and I know others have. Each Pokémon has a specific role in supporting Palkia. Groudon sets up Stealth Rock and keeps many Pokémon in check, and Scizor stops bulkier Psychic-types that can take STAB Spacial Rends. Dialga takes out dangerous threats to the team mid-game that may otherwise beat me, and also outspeeds many Pokémon used to check non-Scarf Palkia. Kyogre provides rain so Ludicolo can provide Leech Seed, together having great synergy and providing problems for the opponents. Kyogre also provides the ability to take status, all together aiding Palkia's attempt to sweep.

When I showed Jibaku the Pokémon (not the sets) on the team he asked how I break stall. Generally it is just by trying to stop them from setting up entry hazards via giving as little free switches as possible and using the Pokémon to wear down the opponent through it, with Mix Palkia cleaning up at the end. Kyogre goes through stall without Latias / Calm Mind Giratina pretty easily (although Calm Mind Giratina still has problems), but Latias can be manhandled by Pursuit or U-turn from Scizor, depending on how I feel. Dialga exerts pressure (no pun intended) on the opponent and often lasts longest due to the hit-and-run way I play it. I also cannot emphasize enough about how I play this team. It is one relying on good switches and playing around Pokémon, often having a hidden backup plan. If the team is played while having no backup plan you will often fall to bad luck.

Threat List

Below is a threat list sorted via Ubers / Non-Ubers, detailing how I would tackle the Pokémon listed. Latias is in the Ubers section due to Soul Dew. Quick thanks to Zak91 who found me the Giratina-O icon.

The Ubers

Darkrai: Lead Darkrai fail to OHKO Groudon with Ice Beam. This means I have no fear Earthquaking and then switching to Kyogre or Scizor depending on whether I expect Dark Void (I go to Kyogre, then to Scizor) or Ice Beam (straight so Scizor, hiding Kyogre's Leftovers). Dialga can revenge kill, Scizor beats it up, Palkia does a ton, Kyogre's Surf does a ton too.

Deoxys: Essentially a worse Deoxys-A as far as my team is concerned, so look below!

Deoxys-A: Focus Sash leads are annoying. Groudon is generally surviving Grass Knot though and can Earthquake, and then I can go to Scizor to finish it with Bullet Punch. Bullet Punch laughs it off but I just hate Hidden Power Fire. Ludicolo can take special attacks but Superpower isn't nice. Dialga outspeeds and laughs.

Deoxys-D: Scizor can U-turn, Ludicolo can stall it. Kyogre sets up on it, Palkia gets a free Substitute. While it sets up its hazards its generally ruining its team's chances in the meanwhile.

Deoxys-S: Groudon Earthquakes twice. Kyogre can set up on it, Dialga does a lot of damage, Scizor too.

Dialga: My first switch in is Ludicolo because nowadays a lot are either weaker special versions being used to support teams or Choice Scarf. Scizor can come in if it is at high HP. Kyogre's high Special Defense is useful here. RestTalk versions are trickier to deal with because of my switch-in being Ludicolo, but normally I just double back out to Groudon for Roar. A few of my special attacks still do a ton to it anyway.

Garchomp: Groudon switches in so I can scout. Choice Band is revenge killed by Dialga. Choice Scarf takes a ton from Kyogre, and Groudon can Earthquake. Ludicolo can Protect scouting Choice versions. Scizor can revenge kill low HP versions with Bullet Punch.

Giratina: Giratina takes a ton from my STAB Dragon-type attacks. Calm Minders are annoying but get Roared by Groudon and then played around. Ludicolo's Leech Seed means I gain a metric ton of HP. Kyogre can Calm Mind 1v1 against any versions without Calm Mind, but obviously hates Roar. It can't really switch in on much.

Giratina-O: Scizor is my #1 switch-in as it can Pursuit / Bullet Punch it etc. Thankfully most Giratina-O don't carry a healing move so they often get worn down quickly. My two Dragons do a lot of damage. Dialga is especially useful as it can take the Dragon Pulse on the switch. Scizor is generally switched in as more of a Substitute breaker than anything, which is a really annoying process to go through with Dialga.

Groudon: Groudon is my #1 switch in if it is at high HP to scout. Rock Polish sets can be revenge killed by Kyogre as it cannot do enough with Earthquake (nowhere near). Ludicolo can come in if something dies and get a Leech Seed off, where it can start stalling somewhat. Choice Band Groudon hits everything hard unfortunately, but thankfully it isn't getting many free switches (Scizor is often U-turning).

Ho-oh: Ludicolo can take special versions, Kyogre can set up on certain versions too. Stealth Rock is obviously helpful. It isn't coming in on much barring maybe Scizor where it is facing a U-turn to straight danger, or Ludicolo where Leech Seed is helpful, so obviously it needs to either be coming in after another Pokémon faints or being played carefully.

Kyogre: Ludicolo can switch in and beat any Choice versions provided it avoids Choice Specs Thunders, upon which I can use Groudon. SubCM is annoying as it evades Leech Seed, so if I spot Leftovers I generally go to Palkia and start using Thunder (last resort). Ludicolo is fun against Calm Mind + Rest versions as I will avoid damaging it via Substitute & Protect, helping stall it out. Dialga's Thunder does a lot of damage.

Latias: Scizor, generally. Ludicolo can Leech Seed it and then I can play the stall game with Kyogre somewhat. Dialga does a lot of damage pre-Calm Mind.

Latios: A stronger Latias, so I have to be more careful with Scizor. However, its lower defenses make it easier for Dialga.

Lugia: Annoying as hell. Ludicolo can annoy it 1v1 if it doesn't have Toxic and then I can also help "heal" my other team members. Kyogre can set up on it but will be stopped by Whirlwind. Thunder is by best chance and hoping for paralysis. It won't like Roosting on Scizor because of U-turn. Stealth Rock is helpful.

Manaphy: Ludicolo gets a Leech Seed and I can play the whole game of taking away Hydration by well predicted Groudon switches. Thunder from Dialga / Palkia do a lot.

Mew: When isn't Mew annoying? Under Reflect I only do 43% tops to 252 HP / 0 Def Mew which is really frustrating. However, from there I can then threaten a Roar with Groudon and so it is often "forced" to Taunt me, but I can literally double-switch back to Scizor if I want. Thankfully, it is generally passing to Rayquaza / Groudon, and Groudon can Roar them out provided they don't have more than 1 SD.

Mewtwo: Annoying because of its versatility. Ludicolo is a godly switch-in besides Taunt / Toxic which I can Protect upon to scout. If it uses either I can go to Kyogre and start Surfing (Light Screen versions are annoying though, but then they generally drop a moveslot). Without Will-O-Wisp defensive versions won't like Scizor. Offensive versions can be revenge killed if they are on mediocre HP via Dialga. Ludicolo really is good against Mewtwo as Protect also helps against Selfdestruct, and less and less Mewtwo are running Calm Mind and Taunt in conjunction.

Palkia: Ludicolo is a great switch-in. Timid Lustrous Orb-boosted Spacial Rend fails to 2HKO without Stealth Rock, but I can use Protect to fight against it. Choice Scarf versions aren't a worry as I can come in and use Leech Seed and start the Protect & Substitute cycle in the rain. Substitute versions are annoying, but I can use Protect to help against it. The biggest threat to Ludicolo is Outrage / critical hit Spacial Rend. Dialga can revenge kill. Scizor can come in on Choice Scarf Spacial Rend should I not want to risk Ludicolo, and can use Pursuit for some nice damage (or U-turn). Kyogre can come try to set up on it with its mega Special Defense.

Rayquaza: My switch in is Groudon for scouting purposes. The Swords Dancer is revenge killed by Dialga. If Dialga is dead (hi Wobbuffet) I have to try and lure it into Outraging, from where I can use either Scizor or Palkia to take it on somewhat. Jolly Dragon Dance Rayquaza is, by far, the biggest threat to this team. The normal way of beating it here is to get a Roar off allowing Stealth Rock damage to rack up, and then playing around it so it fails to get a Dragon Dance next time (eg. I don't use Thunder with Dialga). Stealth Rock is ridiculously helpful against Rayquaza.

Shaymin-S: "Prediction". Bullet Punch / U-turn Scizor is quite fun and Scarf Dialga does a lot of damage. Choice Scarf Shaymin isn't really doing much to my team, and SubSeed is far more dangerous as it can rack up damage on Scizor quicker. Thankfully I don't take Life Orb damage when hitting Substitutes so I still generally come out better.

Wobbuffet: Generally Wobbuffet isn't touching Palkia as it isn't coming out until late-game. Annoyingly they often catch Dialga leaving me far more open to Lucario & Rayquaza. Kyogre can somewhat set up on it but I'm playing a prediction game because of Encore. Scizor can U-turn outta there, but Counter will OHKO whatever comes in.

The Non-Ubers

Blissey: Ludicolo can come in on anything barring Toxic. Scizor can hurt it lots but generally not enough (but can scout the set). Kyogre is my #1 switch-in, but it basically gives away that it is a RestTalking version which is frustrating.

Forretress: Groudon has the surprise Flamethrower, Kyogre has Surf, Dialga has Fire Blast just for this little shell in case it wants free Spikes. Palkia can Thunder for decent damage.

Lucario: Groudon survives a +2 Life Orb Close Combat and OHKOes with Earthquake. Dialga can revenge kill with Fire Blast. Palkia survives a +2 Life Orb ExtremeSpeed and can do a lot of damage with Thunder.

Ludicolo: Typically, my own Ludicolo has to stall it out!

Metagross: Groudon and Kyogre.

Ninjask: Groudon. Scizor somewhat deals with it.

Scizor: Dialga and Groudon can generally come in. It won't like Kyogre's Surf.

Skarmory: If it thinks it's clever coming in on Groudon it gets his by a solid 2HKO with Flamethrower. Kyogre does a ton, as do Palkia / Dialga. Scizor is again often U-turning, limiting when it can switch in.

Tyranitar: Groudon. Scizor's Bullet Punch helps a lot too (and U-turn), Kyogre's Surf does masses too, especially in the rain! I can Substitute with Palkia to scout, and if it Dragon Dances I obviously get a "free" Focus Punch. Getting Scizor in on Tyranitar (on something like Crunch) is especially nice as it allows me to keep the momentum up against the opponents team.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you enjoyed it and the team.

Great team Twash. Having played against it a few times and seeing it perform on the ladder and in the Smogon Tours, there is no denying it's success. Especially since you fit a UU Pokemon in this team and made it seem like a natural choice since it fits in so perfectly. Kudos for that.

Your team is incredibly solid and hall many major threats covered (thanks for including such a comprehensive threatlist), however, there is one thing that seems to give you the most trouble:

Rayquaza: My switch in is Groudon for scouting purposes. The Swords Dancer is revenge killed by Dialga. If Dialga is dead (hi Wobbuffet) I have to try and lure it into Outraging, from where I can use either Scizor or Palkia to take it on somewhat. Jolly Dragon Dance Rayquaza is, by far, the biggest threat to this team. The normal way of beating it here is to get a Roar off allowing Stealth Rock damage to rack up, and then playing around it so it fails to get a Dragon Dance next time (eg. I don't use Thunder with Dialga). Stealth Rock is ridiculously helpful against Rayquaza.

Click to expand...

Fortunately for you, but unfortunately for Team Raters, this is one of those teams that would be heavily hindered by a Pokemon being replaced/moderately changed due to the amazing Synergy here. I think your best bet against Rayquaza would be for Groudon to have a slight tweak in its moveset. For example, adding Stone Edge/Dragon Claw > Stealth Rock means you can defeat Rayquaza with Groudon. However, relying on Stone Edge's accuracy when we all know "Stone Edge is the worst move in Pokemon" is not ideal, so having Thunderwave over Stealth Rock would mean a Jolly DD Rayquaza (which gives you the most trouble) would be slower than your Dialga at +1 speed, so you can revenge kill it nicely. Stealth Rock could replace one of Dialga's moves, for example Fire Blast.

This is more of a piece of advice than a rate and obviously, if you think this would ruin your team you don't have to use it but I recommend you follow this change to make sure under the right circumstances, you can beat Rayquaza.

Solid team overall, especially the Ludicolo <3.

First things first - that team's just great lol
As GEC said, removing something would remove the teams synergy. I guess your main problem with this team are fast fighting moves, ScarfHera could be a problem lategame, when stuff is weakened and Dialga is dead. But as nothing on your team spreads status and the only thing that allows Hera to come in is Ludicolo, it's a minor problem. And I really can't think of replacing anything, so sorry for not being helpful at all :x (but you wanted it!)

Great job once again.

I don't think much can be changed twashy...removing one thing can take away some issues but at the same time add more.

So my main concern is Rayquaza. I mean its all great if you switch in Dialga on it when it Swords Dances the first time, but you know every smart player is going to switch it out, and then when they bring it in next time, Dragon Claw or Earthquake. I mean its a great "check" if they are locked into Outrage or something, but you simply don't want a member of your team dying to an SD Outrage or something before you revenge it.

Why do you need Flamethrower on Groudon? Because of Forretress? That makes little sense to me. You have Mix Palkia, why is it so important to kill Forretress. Sure the Toxic Spikes can be annoying, but you will then have a set-up Palkia ready to demolish whatever's in its way. Dragon Claw might be better, I'd at least test it out. Means you have dual ways of dealing with Rayquaza, always a plus (also might lure them to Outrage you after you take off a chunk of health).

Another thing that looks annoying are spammed CB Scizor U-Turns. One resist in your Scizor, and another rather frail one in Dialga (who you need to keep alive or else your team falls apart). Can't really suggest a fix, but keep your own Scizor at high health, or else something like Taunt CM Mewtwo can have a field day. Maybe even forego Life Orb (although the loss in power does especially hurt in Ubers) for something like Leftovers to increase survivability (this is really really a stretch of course, I'm theorymoning stuff that probably won't happen, just food for thought really).

The team as a whole is excellent, a lot of thought was put into it and you cover stuff fairly well. Good work dude.