Miror B Would be Proud (OU Rain Dance RMT)

Team at a glance:


As some of you may or may not know, I have been around RMT rating rain dance teams. I’ve been working on this one for quite a while, and I would like to get some opinions on it. It first appeared on RMT about a month ago, and has been massively redone since then. Good old rain- use your eight turns to beat your opponent into a pulp and claim victory. I’ve played hundreds of battles with this team and have a lot to say about it, so bear with me. Enough of an introduction, on to the team.
Changes are in Italics.


Azelf @ Damp Rock
Levitate
Jolly
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spe
Rain Dance
Stealth Rock
Taunt
Explosion

Azelf is my lead of choice to set up rocks and rain, then leave a parting gift that either severely dents or kills something. Damp Rock is to extend my rain’s duration, and has proved the superior option overall. Most Azelf leads hold a Focus Sash, so most people assume that I am carrying one. Therefore, they rarely use moves that OHKO my bulkier version of Azelf, as a 2HKO is the best they are able to muster against most Azelf in the first place and therefore all they are equipped to do. Exceptions to this rule are of course out there, such as a Tyraniboah lead (don’t laugh; I’ve seen two so far today). Stealth Rock is obvious, Taunt messes up bulky leads that can’t hurt me (read: Swampert and Hippowdon), and Explosion is always fun. 252 HP Ev’s gives a slight chance to live through a Metagross Meteor Mash and follow up Bullet Punch. Max speed is mandatory, and the extra is put into attack to power up explosion.

When Azelf explodes, a ghost/steel type often comes in to absorb the blast. This is generally seen as a bad thing, however I do not see it as such. Many steel types (Metagross, Jirachi etc.) are not OHKO’d by Ludicolo’s surf, and are put into the OHKO range by explosion. Ghosts are not quite as good of a situation, but I still get a free switch-in for one of my sweepers. Taunt has been good for the slower leads, but has recently not seen as much use, so I have debated putting U-Turn over it. If anyone has an opinion on this, feel free to speak up.

When faced with a lead that I am not guaranteed to get SR and RD up, I go for RD as a higher priority, then get the rocks up later from Bronzong. This double-rocks strategy has helped me more than it has hurt, but it still seems a little redundant.

Against the Top 10 Leads:

Azelf: Sets up SR, RD, then explodes to break the sash. I am usually able to pull it off, unless they taunt me.

Metagross: Set up rain first, and rocks if I am not MM/BP into the depths. I then explode if I can still manage to get off a move.

Jirachi: Switch to Bronzong to let him take the Iron Heads. Bronzong then get rocks and rain up consistently.

Swampert: Taunt shuts these guys down completely, and then I get up rocks and rain as they helplessly try to dent me or switch out.

Aerodactyl: Don’t do so well. They generally taunt me before I can move, so I just switch to Scizor to BP them to death.

Infernape: Set up rocks then rain, and explode if I have not been KO’d.

Hippowdon: Taunt to shut it down, and then get the rocks and rain going to start the party. Follow it up with a good explosion.

Ninjask: Attempt to taunt, then get the rocks and rain up and switch out on a predicted protect. One of the few times where I do not explode.

Bronzong: Taunt followed by the now-standard rocks and rain.

Roserade: Taunt it. If it was scarfed, I go to sleep and Bronzong sets up. If not, I get off my rocks and rain. Leaf Storm will never OHKO.


Bronzong @ Damp Rock
Heatproof
Careful
252 HP/168 Def/88 Sp Def
Rain Dance
Stealth Rock
Explosion
Reflect

Bronzong is the first of my rain replenishes. He comes in once the rain is down, covers the rocks if Azelf failed to do so, and can explode to dent something on the way out. Reflect sees very little use and I have debated dropping it for a vast array of moves, but have never found one I liked over the other. The Ev’s give him maximum bulk from both sides of the spectrum. While the analysis says that SpD Ev’s are not needed for a RD zong, I disagree. As it is true the only special he really gets hit with is fire-type, and fire is weakened in rain, he leaves as soon as the rain is up, and spends very little time actually in it. Therefore, I believe the SpD Ev’s and boosting nature are warranted. Due to the fact that two of my Rain Dancers explode, I have debated using Jirachi over him for U-Turn and Thunder. Heatproof helps to hold at bay Heatrans and Infernapes that try to OHKO me, and makes for an easier time at setting up rain.

Bronzong also attracts fire-types out into play (that can't do anything with Heatproof), which after he explodes and a sweeper comes in, means that I either get a free kill, or a free hit on something that resists my STAB, but I can probably 2HKO anyway (including the switch-in hit). For example, Heatran will switch into Bronzong as a use RD. I will explode as I take a Fire Blast that does not OHKO bar a critical. I send out Kingdra. Fearing the incoming Hydro Pump, they switch in Empoleon, a big threat to this team if he sets up. Hydro Pump does around 50% damage, a guaranteed 2HKO with SR, and now I can easily pick it off with another Hydro Pump or HP [Electric]. You might say he acts as a sort of double-lure strategy to bring out problem pokes. Gyarados, Celebi, and Latias all meet similar fates as the Empoleon described above.


Scizor @ Damp Rock
Technician
Adamant
248 HP/240 SpD/20 Atk
Rain Dance
Roost
Bullet Punch
U-Turn

Scizor is my only Rain Dancer that does not suicide on its way out. 248 HP because 252 is a SR number, 240 SpD to give it a chance to live through non-STAB fire attacks, mainly HP [fire] form Magnezone in rain and live to tell the tale with U-Turn, and 20 Atk for a little bit of force behind the BP. No speed investment because I never want to go before another Scizor: Most times I am U-Turning out and going first would mean something would have to take a Superpower, which would be bad. Bullet Punch picks off weakened stuff, but Kabutop’s Aqua Jet does a better job of that. I’ve debated dropping it for Superpower, but I am afraid that using a Scizor without BP would get me kicked off of Smogon :).

Scizor is part of my strategy to handle Blissey, another threat to this team. Scizor can safely switch into Blissey, as unless my opponent can predict I am coming in (and he won’t if he hasn’t seen me yet) he is not hurt. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam scratch him, he doesn’t mind paralysis, and is immune to toxic. Then, I U-Turn as Blissey either runs away or takes a hit. Generally, they run, so I get a free switch in to Kabutops. Assuming it’s raining, I should have a nice sweep that Blissey cannot ruin, and will weaken my opponent’s team so that Blissey is the last or one of the last two on their team. When she is by herself, Blissey becomes a lot less threatening.


Kingdra @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Timid
32 HP/252 SpA/224 Spe
Hydro Pump
Dragon Pulse
Signal Beam
Hidden Power [Electric]

Kingdra is the first of my swift swim sweepers. Max special attack is obvious, and I use Timid with 224 speed to outrun anything, even other Kingdras and save myself from getting revenged, period. The loss in power is not a problem, as any KO'd pokes that modest would pick up are weakened and easily finished. The 32 HP is a LO number. Hydro Pump is chosen over Surf because it helps break down common pokes that try to ruin my sweep, such as Rotom-A and Machamp (both of which are OHKO’d after SR by Hydro Pump, but not by Surf). The misses can be annoying, but the good outweighs the bad. Dragon Pulse is secondary STAB and is chosen over Draco Meteor because the special attack drop stinks, and the only KO’s I miss out on are defensive Nite and Latias. Signal Beam rips apart Celebi, HP [Electric] is for Gyarados. Credit to joel22 for this set.

Kingdra also functions as a lure for Rotom-A, Dusknoir, and Scarf Latias. As most Kingdra are physical, the former two will come in hoping to sponge a Waterfall then cripple with WoW, but instead get OHKO’d by Hydro Pump. Most rain Kingdra run 16 speed, so Scarf Latias thinks that she can revenge me, then gets a Dragon Pulse to the face. Scarf Gengars can fall to this too, but it is not as common.


Kabutops @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Adamant
32 HP/252 Atk/224 Spe
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Aqua Jet
Swords Dance

Kabutops is the physical portion of my swift swim trio. 32 HP puts me on a LO number, max attack was a given, and 204 speed was required to outrun +Nature +1 Flygon/Salamence. The remaining 20 Ev’s were put into speed, so that I could outrun stuff not nice enough to fall on a speed tier. Waterfall is my main STAB, Stone Edge is secondary STAB and is chosen over Rock Slide as it holds the power to OHKO Gyarados after SR and Intimidate, which Rock Slide Cannot do. Aqua Jet is priority to finish off weakened pokes and even sweep after a SD. Swords Dance is for predicted switches, and it brings Kabutops up to 722 attack, which is more than enough to rip the metagame to shreds.

Kabutops is my main answer to Blisskarm, as he already laughs at Blissey, and can OHKO a Skarmory after SR and a SD. He does well breaking through residual damage stall, but fails against the likes of bulky waters and Restalk Cresselia. He is a fine addition to this team, but sometimes I think there is a better set for him out there. I have tried Qwilfish here, but STAB Stone Edge is better than STAB Poison Jab IMO. If anyone else would like to add to the Kabutops vs. Qwilfish debate, be my guest.


Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Modest
32 HP/4 Def/252 SpA/220 Spe
Surf
Energy Ball
Ice Beam
HP [Electric]

Ludicolo is my clean-up swift swimmer. The Ev's give a LO number, max SpA, and enough speed to outrun Timid Scarf Roserade, who can be a threat to this team. The four leftover are put into defense to help with Bullet Punch/Ice Shard etc. Surf is chosen over Hydro Pump because most things that Hydro Pump picks up the KO on are either weakened or gone. Energy Ball over Grass Knot because it is my only way of dealing with Vaporeon. Ice Beam rounds out the coverage and hits Dragons that have been saved until late game for a chance to sweep for a OHKO, and HP [Electric] is for Gyarados as without Grass Knot, I lost a 2HKO, so this gives me a OHKO. Every time I watch this guy dance his way to victory, I think of Miror B from the GC games. Let the music play!



This team has done me very well on Shoddy, and I hope to continue using it there, and eventually create it on my Platinum game. Thank you for reading the entire RMT, and feel free to give any opinion over this team. Credits to joel22 for helping with several of my sets and helping me out big-time. The threat list is mainly for people who just want to know, you can skip it if you don’t really care how my team fights Zapdos or Breloom.

Threat List:

Green is little threat.
Yellow is annoying.
Red is “Don’t Taze me, Bro!”

Blissey: See the descriptions of Scizor and Kabutops. I generally play around and can use the forced switch out of Kabutops to set up a sweep, but other than that is really hard to kill. Thunder Wave is very annoying to this team bar Bronzong and Scizor.

Bronzong: These guys are no problem at all. 2HKO’d by whatever I use, they can’t scratch my team outside of explosion. Dual Screens can be annoying, but they only get one up, so I abuse the other side of the spectrum for a while.

Celebi: Can be annoying if it gets in a free switch, but is OHKO’d by Signal Beam/HP [Bug] after SR and is 2HKO’d by Hydro Pump in rain. Mainly poses a threat to Kabutops. Scizor has U-Turn.

Cradily: My bug moves are SE, and outside of sandstorm, it fears STAB and boosted Water attacks. Not a problem Pokémon to wear down.

Cresselia: Difficult to wear down, but with Moonlight’s healing at half power, only Restalk versions can be annoying. Just attack and pray. Once again, dual screens are a pain.

Crobat: OHKO’d and outrun by any of my three Swift Swimmers. Not much else to say.

Donphan: Same story as Crobat. Outrun and OHKO’d.

Drapion: Outrun and OHKO’d.

Dusknoir: Takes two hits to KO, but can’t hurt anyone on my team bar Kabutops (Scizor doesn’t actually need any attack). Not a big deal.

Empleon: The number one threat to this team if it can set up and carries Grass Knot. If it is a SubPetaya Agility set as well, I will have to sacrifice several somethings to kill it. If it is not set up, not a problem.

Forretress: OHKO’d by the special side of my swift swimmers.

Gliscor: OHKO’d by anything special, and doesn’t like taking my physical moves, either.

Gyarados: OHKO’d by Kabutops and Kingdra, and 2HKO’d by Grass Knot from Ludicolo. Doesn’t bother me at all.

Hariyama: I can just hit it hard and call it a day.

Heatran: I laugh at these guys. I can even force them out to let Kabutops set up. Can annoy Bronzong/Scizor, though.

Hippowdon: Less of a problem than Heatran.

Jirachi: OHKO’d by Kingdra, 2HKO’d by Kabutops and Ludicolo. I outrun it, so Iron head is no problem.

Latias: 2HKO’d by my entire team. Offensive versions are OHKO’d by Kingdra’s Dragon Pulse. Does not like Scizor.

Ludicolo: I just pound the little guy into the ground. It’s fairly easy to do with other swift swimmers.

Machamp: Can be OHKO’d by Kingdra’s Hydro Pump, but that is it. Otherwise, something becomes a sacrifice.

Magnezone: Scizor has U-Turn and can survive HP [Fire] in rain. The rest of my team laughs at it.

Mesprit: I laugh and OHKO.

Metagross: Easily OHKO’d by the special side of my team. Just hope Hydro Pump does not miss to allow an explosion.

Milotic: Annoying to kill, but can’t really hurt me back. Stalls out LO recoil.

Miltank: Just pound her to the ground!

Porygon2: Easily OHKO’d.

Regirock: Falls to the OHKO.

Registeel: Easily 2HKO’d, and can’t do much damage back.

Rhyperior: Do I really need to explain this?

Rotom-A: OHKO’d by Kingdra’s Hydro Pump, however if Kingdra is not available, a sacrifice is sometimes required.

Salamence: OHKO’d by my entire fleet of Swift Swimmers.

Scizor: OHKO’d by the special side, and Kabutops KO’s with Waterfall and a follow-up Aqua Jet.

Shaymin: Rare and easily KO’d.

Shuckle: Does not like STAB boosted SE water attacks.

Skarmory: In Skarmbliss, very frightening. Otherwise, easily OHKO’d. Read the descriptions above for how I fight Skarmbliss.

Slaking: Pound that sucker!

Slowbro: Hit for SE damage by Grass Knot and HP [Bug]. Not an issue.

Snorlax: 2HKO’d by Hydro Pump. Easily taken down with Surfs/Waterfalls (without curses up).

Spiritomb: I just pound it down.

Starmie: Does not like SE Hidden Powers or Stone Edge.

Suicune: Grass Knot can 2HKO, even if it goes for a CM, but outside of that, difficult to kill.

Swampert: Grass Knot/Hydro Pump OHKO. Waterfall is a 2HKO.

Tentacruel: Can stall me for a long while, set up TS, and Knock of Life Orbs. Not fun, but can’t kill me by itself.

Togekiss: Can be OHKO’d by Kingdra after SR. Flinchax is annoying, though.

Tyranitar: SS is deadly. Is OHKO’d by Kabutops and 2HKO’d by everything else, but is still annoying.

Umbreon: Just hammer until it dies.

Vaporeon: I have no sure-fire counter. It can stall out my entire team, unless Kabutops can pull off a SD.

Walrein: With RD, he loses his hail, and becomes easy to pick off with SE moves on all swift swimmers.

Weezing: Hit it with special stuff.

Zapdos: Is fairly easily OHKO’d.

Azelf: Outrun and OHKO’d.

Breloom: Can be OHKO’d by Ludicolo and Kingdra, but if those two are not out, then something is sacrificed to spore.

Dugtrio: Outrun and OHKO’d. Sucker Punch doesn’t finish off any of my pokes, and Kabutops can use Aqua Jet to null that as well.

Electivire: Outran and OHKO’d.

Flygon: Outran and OHKO’d.

Gengar: Outran and OHKO’d by Kingdra, just OHKO’d by everything else if scarfed.

Heracross: Outran and OHKO’d.

Infernape: Outran and OHKO’d. Mach Punch only trouble Kabutops, who has Aqua Jet to help.

Kingdra: OHKO’d by my Kingdra, severely dented by everything else.

Lucario: Outran and OHKO’d. Kabutops resist ES.

Mamoswine: Outran and OHKO’d.

Ninjask: Can be easily OHKO’d, but is troublesome if it manages to pull off a Baton Pass.

Porygon-Z: Outran and OHKO’d.

Roserade: OHKO’d, but if scarfed can give leads problems and put something to sleep. TS are not fun.

Weavile: Outran and OHKO’d.

Yanmega: Annoying, but is easily KO’d.

Hey Pikachu25, this is a good team so just a few little things to say.

On Ludicolo I'd run 60HP/196Spd/252SAtk. You don't really need that extra speed as it doesn't outrun anything of note and the extra bulk helps taking Bullet Punches and ExtremeSpeeds. Also, with HP Electric and Signal Beam on Kingdra, HP Bug seems a bit overkill and having a fourth pokemon with Rain Dance may be beneficial but its up to you.

Kingdra is fine although I always preferred a bit more speed to ensure outrunning Kingdras as well as outrunning pokemon like Adamant Lucario, Jolly Mamoswines, Jolly Gyarados', etc outside the rain which requires Timid nature and 32HP/224Spd/252SAtk although you lose a bit of power you still take out Machamps and Rotom-As. Obviously you do less to Celebi with Signal Beam and others so it really depends on whether you mind the special power drop.

Heatrans and Infernapes can cause you a lot of trouble in getting Rain Dance up if Bronzongs a bit weakened, and thats my only real problem with having both Bronzong and Scizor. I have used both together before so I know they work well its just you may want Heatproof on Bronzong to make it even better at taking fire hits but its up to you.

Scizor and Azelf are fine, I always preferred the safety of Focus Sash against Tyranitars as you could set up rain and survive with your sash and they are getting more common as leads but its not needed.

I'll join in the Kabutops-Qwilfish debate. I think it really depends on how commonly you see Toxic Spikes as Kabutops is better than Qwilfish offensively but if Toxic Spikes are common then Qwilfish is a great alternative. Its Explosion is deadly as well. I always used Qwilfish but that was because of how common Toxic Spikes were becoming, I haven't battled a lot in a while so not sure how it is now.

Anyway, thats all I've got to say, its a good team, pretty standard in many ways but still good. Blissey is a massive pain to your team though as is stall in general though. Just wondering whats your highest CRE with it?

Hope this helps and good luck with your team :)

Thanks joel22.

I'll try the Ludicolo spread out. I've lost many matches to someone saving Lucario with ES for late in my sweep after a lot of LO recoil, so a little bit of bulk might help. I originally used RD on Ludi, but that was before I but Signal Beam and HP [Electric] on Kingdra. Having a non-suicided RD'er not weak to fire will be very nice.

That Kingdra build is the top of my testing priority list. If it keeps the OHKO on Rotom-A and Machamp, it has all of the power I need (I think). Guaranteed outrunning of other Kingdra is invaluable, and losing the OHKO on Latias does not hurt- my team does not fear her.

I'll try the sash out, but as you mentioned, it only helps against Tyranitars, and I still get rain up with no rocks against them. They are the main reason Bronzong also carries SR, so that I do not have to worry about getting those up. I'm going to try it though, as you haven't given me (or anyone) a bad RD suggestion yet.

I've debated Heatproof, and used Levitate to switch into things like Scarf Flygon and Swampert, but I've been OHKO'd by too many Heatrans not to want to try it out, and I haven't taken that many EQ's anyway.

Toxic spikes don't seem to be real common (they appear on less than 11% of teams) so I'll keep Kabutops. Thanks for the opinion on that.

My highest CRE on an account with just this team is 1454, and still rising pretty fast. It's winning about 3:1 or 4:1 still, only really fearing the smart stall player.

EDIT: I have found that I prefer 32 HP/252 SpA/224 Spe on Ludicolo, as I can outrun Timid Scarf Roserade, who can give me problems and OHKO. It also provides a LO number. 4 of the speed ev's are left over, but I put them there as I didn't see another good place for them (if you know a better place, I'm all ears). LOVE the Kingdra build, I am keeping it unless things change. Heatproof on Bronzong has worked wonders, I am going to keep that as well. I am still testing the sash on Azelf. Thanks again for all of the help!

After a few damage calculations I'd put those 4 EVs in Def they help taking Ice Shards from LO Mamoswine reducing them to 47.5% max instead of 48.5% max, and they aren't doing much in speed.

Thanks for that. I'll change the Ev's right away.

While testing the focus sash, I found out that leadtar's crunch does not OHKO with 252 HP, and that is what they usually use on Azelf. I still prefer damp rock as of now, but I will keep the focus sash idea for when the metagame changes with HG/SS release.

I've been having a lot of trouble with Vaporeon lately. Does anyone have any ideas? I've debated Energy Ball over Grass Knot, but that leads to more problems. That is my main, big issue right now.

Yeah without Energy Ball, Vaporeon is a pain. A SDed Stone Edge from Kabutops with the aid of SR will take it out though. I suppose you could try Energy Ball and see how it goes, thats probably the best thing you can do at the moment.

Energy Ball is still under testing, but I have found without Grass Knot I become weak to Crocune, and Vaporeon is easier to work around. One pokemon that messes up a team isn't too bad...

I would like to add that your Kingdra build just saved me in two battles, one of which the extra speed took a Lucario by surprise, and in the ohter one, the extra HP let it hang on by 1 point and OHKO a Breloom to win from a 4-1 deficit (look for a Warstory on that one). Thanks again for all of your help!

Pleasure for all the help, your title is really making me want to play XD though :(

i really am no expert in rain dance teams,but have a question to people that use rain dance teams,why not floatzel? not bulk enough? lack power? life orb rain waterfall coming from 309 atack is low? anyway,have 3 rain dancers is a little...overkill,i mean,you need only 2,one to start the rain,and the other to come mid or later game and place another rain,the problem is,i cant find a good enough reason for you to replace scizor with floatzel,this got me a idea,why not change the scizor with a floatzel with rain dance? floatzel is the faster pokemon with swift swin,i know its NU,but serious,i do use floatzel on my OU team and i got no problem with salamence,latias or gengar,also,floatzel is physical,so it should make dealing with blissey a little more easy,i doubt you will use floatzel,but if you do then try this set:
(Floatzel) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Crunch/brick break
- Ice Punch
- Waterfall
- Rain Dance

pretty simple,crunch or brick break is how easy you deal with gengar,latias or empoleon,do not replace ice punch,if you do salamence can use you has a set up bait,if you want extra power,change the nature to adamant,its not like anything else will be faster then her in rain,the reason i prefer jolly is because they are pokemons that she need to outspeed before rain,something like starmie that run 216 speed evs with timid,or modest/adamant azelf,or rather,speed tie with him,but you get the idea,i am sorry if i was a pain in the ass for trying to make you try out floatzel,but just try her,if you dont like then just change back,i hope i was at least a little help.

Floazel is generally overshadowed by Kabutops and Qwilfish who have access to Swords Dance and therefore are not as easily walled against physical walls and bulky waters as Floatzel is. In OU the prevalence of Tyranitar is why you need a lot of rain dancers as well as the fact that there are a lot of pokemon that take hits better compared to UU where you can often have 2 supporters and 4 sweepers. In OU you need 3 supporters and Scizor is a big part of his team so he would not change it and shouldn't. Hope that answers your question Crimson :)

Another reason I cannot eliminate Scizor without re-working some other pokemon is that his BP and U-Turn are devastating weapons against the aforementioned Tyranitar as well as Abomasnow. I have used Floatzel in the past, and yes, STAB Waterfalls coming off of 309 attack is fierce, but my sweepers have rarely failed to sweep a non-stall team (assuming my rain support functions), so the extra sweeper is redundant. Also, as Floatzel is plenty fast already, Adamant would be used over jolly. I will admit that Brick Break is very useful for Empleon, but if I need it, Kabutops gets it too.

Thanks for the suggestion though, every comment helps!

Kabutops might want to consider making use of X-Scissor, possibly over Aqua Jet.

Well, I have played several rain teams in my short experience on Shoddy, and a lot of them look exactly like this. Everything looks great, but as Tootache said, try X-Scissor over Aqua Jet on Kabutops to give you a secondary check against Celebi. If any one of your team members goes down, its most likely to be Scizor, as the Rain Teams I have faced usually sacrifice Scizor in some cases. X-Scissor will give you some back-up.

Hope I helped, and Good Luck!

I have run X-Scissor over Aqua Jet before, and have found the priority to be more useful than the OHKO on Celebi. With heatproof, Bronzong gets an almost free switch in, and can then replenish rain or explode for a chunk of health. Stone Edge can also deal with Celebi to an extent. With Kingdra with Signal Beam, Ludicolo with Ice Beam, and Scizor with U-Turn (Scizor survives HP [Fire] in rain), Celebis are not an issue. If X-Scissor were to go on this set, it would probably go over SD, as that is my least used move.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Here's my bump :).

After running my calculations (and looking up some that others have done), I am now testing Energy Ball over Grass Knot to help with Vaporeon, as the only noteable OHKOs I lose are offensive Suicune, who doesn't do squat to this team, and Hippowdon, who falls to a OHKO from Surf most of the time without SR. I do slightly less damage to Tyranitar, but that was a 2HKO anyway, and stays a 2HKO. If anyone has anything else to say about this, feel free. I have also noticed that Ludicolo rarely uses Rain Dance, so I have debated putting Energy Ball over that and keeping both, however that is redundant and probably not the best choice. Thanks again for the help!

If you aren't using Rain Dance on Ludicolo then run HP Electric as with Energy Ball you lose a 2HKO on Gyarados but now with HP Electric you can just OHKO it. Good luck!

I'm probably not as knowledgeable as you are but I'll give in my 2 cents anyways

In your threat list, pokemon like empoleon, vapoureon and tentacruel, suicune and skarmory are a problem. A pokemon that can thunder can take care of those problems. Maybe Jirachi, zapdos or Rotom-w, they all are also excellent at raindancing

Btw your kindra is deezed hope you don't mind if I steal it

Its my Kingdra set btw but feel free to use it, just don't try and claim it as your own :)

Yes, I have debated using a Thunder user for a long time, but haven't found a place for it that I like. That is one area I am still clueless in. Rotom-W I have tried before, and it didn't work out well at all. I've looked at Jirachi over Scizor, but that adds another ground weakness. If Jirachi isn't 2HKO'd by Salamence's Fire Blast somehow, I could make it work...

If anyone knows how to work this out (hi joel22...) I'm listening.

EDIT: I have added in that it is joel22's Kingdra set.

Ugh, Thunder user, hmm. Starmie over Bronzong or Scizor maybe as it can take fire-type attacks while hitting with powerful water and electric attacks. You would then change Bronzong's ability to Levitate though if you changed Scizor since the fire weakness would be less of a problem. Jirachi will be 2HKOed by Salamences Fire Blast without a doubt. As for Starmie's set, here you go:

Starmie@Damp Rock ¦ Natural Cure
Timid ¦ 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Rain Dance / Recover / Thunder / Surf

Can deal with Infernapes and Heatran pretty well while recovering its HP. Being able to set up rain and take advantage of both 100% accurate Thunders and boosted Surfs is pretty good. EVs give speed, bulk and bit of SpA.

Worth a try I guess, might not work as well as Bronzong and Scizor do though but it'll give you a Thunder user.

Anyway, good luck!

Thanks for the set, joel22.

Now that I have HP [Electric] on two of my pokemon, I am noticing that my weakness to the aforementioned pokemon is becoming substantially less. Vaporeon and Suicune both fail against my team, and the others no longer have the opportunities to wall me. I will try out the Starmie set, and post back here with the results.

Test results have shown that Starmie is not needed on my team. The most notable KO (Skarmory) is very often seen with Blissey, who now walls almost my entire team (if I keep the Starmie). Having a status absorber was nice, though. I have decided that I will keep my current support, however a new idea came to me during testing about a thunder abuser.

I had an idea that if I changed Bronzong to my lead (possibly using Gyro Ball over reflect) and moved Azelf back, I could change its EV spread (I don't know what to use, though) and replace SR and Taunt with U-Turn and Thunder. Just an idea, but I thought I'd ask you guys and see what you think.

Thanks again for all of the help!

Well you could move Bronzong to the lead position but then Taunt leads will completley screw you over as will Roserade and Smeargle leads. You could try it though I'd change Azelf to Rotom-W then as its a better Thunder abuser, can also abuse Hydro Pump and gives you a nice switch into Explosion.

I'll try it, and be back here with the results when they come in.

No, the bulky Bronzong lead did not work out (for the reasons joel22 pointed out), but it was a fun little experiment. Bulky waters and Skarmory are becoming easier to deal with, and I thank you all for all of the help.

On a side note, while playing this team like mad today, I got one of my accounts up to 1502!