Qwilfish (Gen 4, full revamp)*

Qwilfish has now been done, I'm quite new to UU play though so I've probably missed a few things. Main thing I've been doing is adding more about its strengths compared to Kabutops for the rd sets, and compared to Omastar for the Spikes Support set, which there was a lack of before. The main set which probably needs help is the Spikes Support set as I'm not too well acquainted with that.

STATUS: Done.



http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/qwilfish

________________________

Changes:
-Removal of Choice Bander set
-Rewrite of all sets and some minor changes to the sets moves
-Rewrite of other sections
-Addition of Team Options sections for each individual set in relation to UU
-Addition of Team Options at end in relation to UU
-Team Options in blue
_________________________

[Overview]

<p>Qwilfish is a neat UU Pokémon that can support a team by either taking down opponents by sacrificing itself or attempting a sweep. It doesn't have the power of other Swift Swimmers like Kabutops and Gorebyss, but it has plenty in its movepool to offer. Its ability to soak up Toxic Spikes, higher Speed, and access to Explosion are the main things that differentiate it from Kabutops; additionally, it can also beat most Milotic. When rain is up, this is one Pokemon that you shouldn't underestimate.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Poison Jab
move 4: Explosion
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set plays like a less powerful but slightly faster version of Kabutops. One of the big advantages Qwilfish has over Kabutops is its ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, which can badly hurt your team's ability to sweep. Waterfall is its main attack option, its power boosted by 1.5x by the rain. Poison Jab is its secondary attack to hit Grass- and Water-types that resist Waterfall. Explosion takes out anything that doesn't resist it after a Swords Dance boost. Return is an alternate option for use over Explosion as it can hit Quagsire, Gastrodon, Toxicroak, and other Water- and Poison-type resists without blowing Qwilfish up; however, Explosion's sheer power and ability to blow holes in teams is generally preferred. Qwilfish does well against almost all Milotic thanks to resisting Surf and being neutral to Hidden Power Grass. This is a great asset to Rain Dance teams since Milotic can wall many other rain sweepers.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Thanks to Swift Swim, Qwilfish reaches 538 Speed when Rain Dance is up, which outspeeds pretty much everything you will encounter in UU, including all common Choice Scarf users. You could drop its Speed, but it's better to run maximum Speed to Speed tie with other Adamant Qwilfish. Jolly is an alternative nature as outspeeding positive base 80 Speed Pokemon outside the rain, such as Venusaur, which could prove useful; however, the extra power makes Adamant the better option most of the time.</p>

<p>Rain Dance is a requirement when using Swords Dance Qwilfish on your team because it doubles its average Speed, as well as giving a 1.5x boost to your STAB Waterfall. Claydol makes a great partner to Qwilfish, immune or resistant to all of its weaknesses, as well as being able to set up both Stealth Rock and Rain Dance. Stealth Rock is definitely suggested because it makes it easier for Qwilfish to deal with Pokemon like Altaria. Uxie is another Pokemon who can set up Stealth Rock while taking the Ground- and Psychic-type moves commonly directed at Qwilfish. Uxie also has access to Memento, which can help Qwilfish set up a Swords Dance, albeit at the cost of Uxie. Rotom is another great partner, taking the Ground-, Fighting-, and Electric-type moves aimed at Qwilfish while setting up Rain Dance; it can also use Hidden Power Grass to hit Quagsire and Gastrodon, which Qwilfish can do nothing but Explode on. Ludicolo is very dangerous in the rain and makes a great partner as it has access to Grass-type moves, which can deal with the bulky Water-types that Qwilfish hates. Although it may seem like a conflict of interests, Kabutops can actually make a nice partner to Qwilfish; they have problems with many of the same Pokemon, so when Qwilfish Explodes on Quagsire or Gastrodon, it will open up an opportunity for Kabutops to finish off the opponent's team. Dugtrio can trap and kill Toxicroak; however, it has to be careful when switching in on a Nasty Plot because Toxicroak can OHKO Dugtrio with Vacuum Wave.</p>

[SET]
name: Rain Dance Lead
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Poison Jab / Taunt
move 4: Explosion / Destiny Bond
item: Damp Rock / Focus Sash
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Qwilfish can make a decent Rain Dance lead. The idea is to set up Rain Dance and attempt a sweep on your own, or to Explode on someone and send in your secondary Swift Swimmer unharmed. Damp Rock allows for eight turns of rain which are so beneficial and against most leads, you can at least get up Rain Dance. However, with Focus Sash, you will always survive a hit and get Rain Dance on the field unless you get hit with Taunt or certain status or are against a Fake Out lead. An EV spread of 252 HP / 92 Def / 166 Spe is another option when using Damp Rock as with the extra HP, you'll be able to take an unboosted Earthquake from Steelix. The Speed EVs enable you to outspeed +1 positive base 100s in the rain, allowing you to Destiny Bond them before they attack.</p>

<p>Waterfall is your main attack again. Poison Jab is better for sweeping and hits the Grass-type Pokemon who resist your main attack, but Taunt has its uses, too. You can prevent opponents from setting up a Substitute or Stealth Rock or throwing status around, which can harm a team member's chance of sweeping. However, Qwilfish is quite slow, meaning Taunt is only useful against slower, bulkier leads unless you have rain up. Explosion is the preferred option in the last slot to go out with a bang, but Destiny Bond can be used instead to force opponents to switch or faint, and due to Rain Dance, you'll be faster than them. Spikes or Toxic Spikes are other minor options for use in the third slot should you want to utilize entry hazards. An Adamant nature is used to hit as powerfully as possible; however, a Jolly nature is a good alternative as it means that outside the rain you will, at worst, speed tie with opposing Qwilfish and Toxicroak and also outspeed positive base 80s, such as Venusaur. One of the main reasons to use Qwilfish over other Rain Dance leads, such as Electrode and Ambipom, is that you can straight out put the momentum of the match on your side.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Obviously, this Qwilfish should only be used on a Rain Dance team, and it therefore needs to be supported by appropriate Pokemon. Ludicolo makes a great offensive partner, taking out the bulky Water-types that Qwilfish hates. If Qwilfish can lure in and Explode on Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Toxicroak, Kabutops will have an easier time at a sweep and therefore makes an effective partner. Claydol covers all of Qwilfish's weaknesses and so is a great option for a partner. It can also set up both Stealth Rock and Rain Dance to support the team. Dugtrio is a great partner because it can trap Toxicroak and Chansey, who causes problems for the special sweepers in Rain Dance teams.</p>

<p>Qwilfish has a lot of trouble with Ambipom leads, as they can use Fake Out to break Qwilfish's Focus Sash, therefore making Rotom a nice partner to switch into Fake Out, while also being able to set up Rain Dance to support the team. It will have to watch out for Payback, though, which will 2HKO 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Rotom 98.62% of the time if Ambipom is holding Life Orb. However, Rotom can burn Ambipom with Will-O-Wisp, and since Life Orb isn't too common on Lead Ambipom, Rotom will usually be fine. Uxie has great bulk and makes another good switch into Ambipom, and since U-turn and Payback only do around 25% to 252 HP / 252 Def Relaxed Uxie, it shouldn't have too much trouble getting in and setting up both Rain Dance and Stealth Rock to support your team.</p>

[SET]
name: Spikes Support
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Poison Jab / Taunt
move 4: Explosion / Destiny Bond
item: Leftovers
ability: Poison Point
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although one of its lesser options, Qwilfish can still make a great Spikes user. The handy thing about Qwilfish is that five of the best Rapid Spinners in UU have trouble switching into it, allowing Qwilfish to set up quite easily. Claydol, Donphan, Sandslash, and Torkoal are all weak to Waterfall, and are therefore unlikely to switch in, while Blastoise has trouble doing any real damage and gets worn down by Poison Jab.</p>

<p>Waterfall is the main attacking option for Qwilfish, while Poison Jab helps against Grass-types and certain Flying-types who resist or are immune to Water-type attacks, like Mantine and Altaria. Although Qwilfish doesn't have stellar defenses, it can use Taunt over Poison Jab to stop opponents from setting up. For the last slot, Explosion is the preferred option to go out with a bang, but Destiny Bond is a good alternative and might cause some switching if you reveal it early. Thunder Wave is a minor option, but if your team is slow, it could be helpful, and with the 20% flinch rate of Waterfall, Qwilfish can be an annoyer of sorts. Although Qwilfish may seem outclassed by Omastar as a Spikes user, its access to Explosion, Taunt, and higher Speed are some big things which set it apart from Omastar. It can also soak up Toxic Spikes, which stall teams hate.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are aimed at boosting Qwilfish's Attack while also letting it take hits better, with the rest put in Speed. Poison Point is the preferred ability as the odd chance of poisoning your opponent could prove crucial, and with only 4 EVs in Speed, Qwilfish won't be able to make that good use of Swift Swim anyway. Running an EV spread of 252 HP / 32 SpD / 224 Spe is another option; this outruns Timid LO Milotic and anything slower, though at the cost of Attack. Therefore, this is best when running Spikes / Waterfall / Taunt / Destiny Bond. A Jolly nature can also be used, with an EV spread of 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe or just maximum Speed with less HP or Attack. The loss of attack power may hurt at times, but the extra Speed could prove useful as you will outspeed positive base 80s.</p>

<p>A Ghost-type Pokemon is a requirement as a partner to this set to stop opponents from Spinning away your Spikes and ruining all of your work. Rotom, Spiritomb, and Mismagius are the best options for that slot. They all have access to Will-O-Wisp and various supporting qualities to cripple your opponents. Perish Song Mismagius can put your opponents in a horrible position: they'll need to switch because of Perish Song, but don't want to because of Spikes. Spiritomb is the most defensive of the three and can handle key threats to Qwilfish, like Toxicroak, the best. Rotom can help your team take hits better with dual screens. Obviously, Qwilfish can do well on stall teams as Spikes are very important to stall teams, so Chansey is a great partner to take special attacks aimed at Qwilfish. Donphan makes a nice partner because it has an immunity to Electric-type moves and can also set up Stealth Rock and use Rapid Spin. Altaria has an immunity to Ground-type moves and can use Toxic to poison the bulky Water-types that cause Qwilfish problems.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulky Spiker
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Pain Split
move 3: Poison Jab
move 4: Taunt / Aqua Jet
item: Leftovers
ability: Poison Point
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With this set, Qwilfish is able to switch into the majority of Water- and physical Fire-types and defensive Pokemon and easily lay down Spikes. Pain Split lets Qwilfish survive longer and therefore set up more layers of Spikes. Poison Jab is your chosen STAB move as it lets Qwilfish hit other Water-types, such as SubPunch Azumarill (whose Substitute will be broken by it), and with Qwilfish’s bulk, it will easily take its hits from Azumarill's common attacks, except for Normal-type attacks. In the last slot, Taunt is the preferred option to stop opponent's from using recovery and also lets Qwilfish easily beat both SubRoost Moltres and Articuno. However, Aqua Jet is a reasonable replacement to revenge kill weakened Blaziken, Dugtrio, and Houndoom.</p>

<p>While many people would prefer to use Cloyster, Froslass, or Omastar for Spikes, Qwilfish does have some notable advantages over those three. Firstly, due to its Poison-typing, it absorbs Toxic Spikes upon entry, and so stops your team from being slowly weakened by the poison. Because of this, it can also relieve your team of reliance on Aromatherapy or Heal Bell support. This Poison-typing also means Qwilfish is immune to Toxic, letting it take on defensive Pokemon such as Chansey better than the aforementioned three Pokemon. Qwilfish also has an easier time setting up against bulky Water-types and can wall most Fire-types. It also can do very well against Stallrein since it can Taunt Walrein and resists Water-type attacks, unlike Omastar and Froslass.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs let Qwilfish take physical hits, neutral Hidden Powers from Pokemon like Milotic, and resisted special hits well. Leftovers is the preferred item since the extra recovery can help Qwilfish stay around longer; however, Shed Shell is a good alternative should you be afraid of Dugtrio trapping Qwilfish. Poison Point is the chosen ability as this set does not aim to sweep in the rain, nor will it take that much advantage from opponents using Rain Dance. Therefore, the chance to poison the opponent is more useful. Impish is the preferred nature as it means Qwilfish will take physical hits better.</p>

<p>This set aims to set up Spikes to support your team; therefore, a Ghost-type is very useful to stop your opponent from just Rapid Spinning away your Spikes. Mismagius, Rotom, and Spiritomb are the best options for this. You can even run two Ghost-types to stop Hitmontop from using Foresight + Rapid Spin to spin away any Spikes Qwilfish sets up. Chansey is a very useful partner as this set has trouble taking strong special hits; however, Chansey takes most easily. Donphan and Venusaur are effective partners to take Electric-type attacks commonly aimed at Qwilfish. Donphan can also set up Stealth Rock to help add to the residual damage.

<p>Taunt Ambipom can cause this set a lot of problems by stopping it from setting up Spikes or healing itself. Fake Out + Return, with Stealth Rock support and a bit more prior damage, from Life Orb Ambipom can 2HKO Qwilfish, while Poison Jab from Qwilfish will only at best 2HKO Ambipom in return (with Stealth Rock support). Spiritomb therefore can make an effective partner to deal with Ambipom and has Pursuit, Sucker Punch, and Will-O-Wisp to wear it down. Other Ghost-types such as Froslass and Rotom do well if Ambipom lacks Payback, while Rock- and Steel-types can deal with Ambipom if it doesn't pack Low Kick or Grass Knot (the latter only being for the Rock-types). Taunt Drapion is a major nuisance to this set, since Taunt stops Qwilfish from setting up Spikes, using its own Taunt, or using Pain Split. Drapion also resists Poison Jab and has the Defense to easily take Aqua Jet. Dugtrio can trap Drapion and OHKO offensive 4 HP versions with a Jolly Life Orb Earthquake 100% of the time. With Stealth Rock up, Adamant Life Orb versions will always OHKO 252 HP versions (Jolly requires Stealth Rock and Spikes for definite OHKO). However, it requires Choice Band and an Adamant nature if it wants a small chance to OHKO 252 HP / 252 Defense Impish Drapion with Stealth Rock up. Life Orb Jolly versions will manage a 2HKO. The aforementioned Donphan also makes an effective partner to deal with opposing Drapion as it has a high Defense stat to take hits and has a powerful STAB Earthquake that will always OHKO offensive versions of Drapion, assuming Donphan has the usual Adamant nature and 252 Attack EVs. Even the most defensive Drapion is always 2HKOed.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Stealth Rock is a great support option to help the offensive sets and makes it harder for opponents to just predict around you. Claydol and Uxie are the best options as they can also set up Rain Dance themselves and take many of Qwilfish's weaknesses with ease. Donphan is one of the best options to set up Stealth Rock for the Spikes Support set. Dual screen or Memento support is a great option to help the Swords Dancer set up with relative ease. Rotom is one of the best options for dual screen support, and it can also set up Rain Dance. Uxie is an amazing user of both dual screens and Memento while also having access to both Rain Dance and Stealth Rock, making it one of the best, if not the best, partner to the Swords Dancer.</p>

<p>Ludicolo is perhaps the best offensive support Pokemon as it can deal with both Quagsire and Gastrodon, who are the most common counters to Qwilfish's offensive sets, while also dealing with Altaria through its Ice-type moves. Kabutops is another great offensive Pokemon because although it's countered by the same Pokemon as Qwilfish, it can take advantage of Qwilfish Exploding on one of the aforementioned threats. Omastar and Gorebyss are other nice partners to hit some of the more physically defensive Pokemon who cause Qwilfish trouble, using Hidden Power Grass to hit Quagsire and Gastrodon and Earth Power and Psychic, respectively, to deal with Toxicroak.</p>

<p>There are many great defensive partners to Qwilfish. For the offensive Rain Dance sets, Pokemon like Uxie and Claydol are among the best, as they can set up Rain Dance and Stealth Rock to support Qwilfish while also taking most attacks aimed at it. Lanturn can absorb Electric-type moves aimed at Qwilfish and also set up Rain Dance to support Qwilfish while abusing it itself. Rotom can take the Ground- and Electric-type moves aimed at Qwilfish and set up Rain Dance to support it.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Toxic Spikes is an option over Spikes, although in UU, there are many Poison-types who can easily absorb them. There's Endure/Substitute and Flail, but that is better left to Kabutops. Counter is rather gimmicky and should only be used with a Focus Sash, but it could surprise some Pokemon. Anything else of note requires Qwilfish to take a hit or be slow (Revenge, Payback, Gyro Ball), which is definitely not acceptable. Aqua Jet is another option, as priority is very useful in UU, but this makes it generally outclassed by Kabutops, who has a higher Attack stat. Also, Aqua Jet + Swords Dance is an illegal move combination, so this further prevents Qwilfish from using it too effectively.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Quagsire and Toxicroak are effective general counters, as they are immune to Water-type moves because of Water Absorb and Dry Skin, respectively, and both resist Poison-type moves. Walrein, Gastrodon, and Cradily with Earthquake will also be effective, although a +2 rain boosted Waterfall is going to hurt both Cradily and Gastrodon. Most healthy Pokémon with decent defenses will be able to take a hit if they're not weak to Water- or Poison-type attacks. Milotic and Lapras are some examples of such Pokemon, although Milotic will need Hidden Power Electric and Lapras will need Thunderbolt. Furthermore, Qwilfish's Speed is noticeably average, so the non-Rain Dance version can be outsped and hit with strong attacks from Choice item users.</p>

I just wanted to mention that Damp Rock is a viable option on Rain Dance leads. If you supply a bit of bulk, (think 252 HP/92 Def, neutral nature), Qwilfish will always survive an unboosted Earthquake from a 252 Adamant Metagross lead. Those extra turns in the rain are critical.

Focus Sash works against Azelf, because you'll never survive a Psychic.. but it is ruined by Focus Sash leads in Infernape, and Ambipom. Albeit, Infernape will likely flee for its life.

In UU, Lum Berry has its uses for setting up Rain Dance against Roserade, Yanmega, and the rare Jumpluff (possibly trying to set up Sunny Day), then exploding on them. In most cases, I'd still prefer Damp Rock.

The most common lead in UU, Uxie.. fails to come close to OHKOing Qwilfish with Psychic and no EV investment (requiring at least a neutral nature, 100 EVs in special attack to OHKO 252 HP/0SpDef Qwilfish.. and that's a slim chance to OHKO). In this case, you may want Destiny Bond over Explosion, to assure taking Uxie down with you.

joel22 said:

[SET]
name: Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Poison Jab
move 4: Explosion
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This plays like a less powerful, but slightly faster version of Kabutops. One of the big advantages Qwilfish has over Kabutops is its ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, which could badly hurt your team's ability to sweep. Waterfall is its main attack option, and it's power should not be underestimated in the rain, thanks to the 1.5x boost it provides. Poison Jab is its secondary attack to hit Grass-types and other Waters that resist your STAB move. Explosion takes out anything that doesn't resist it or take huge chunks from the opponent's HP after a Swords Dance boost. (rephrase) Return is a minor option for use over Explosion as it can hit Quagsire, Gastrodon, Toxicroak and other Water-types and Poison-type resists without you having to blow yourself up, however Explosions sheer power (ommit ,) and ability to blow holes in teams is generally preferred. Also, Explosion is one of the main moves that differates it from Kabutops, and running Return makes it in many ways inferior to Kabutops.</p>

<p>Since Swift Swim doubles its average Speed when Rain Dance is in play, Qwilfish can overcome its average Speed, and become a deadly sweeper in its own right. Qwilfish reaches 538 Speed when Rain Dance is up, which outspeeds pretty much everything you will encounter in UU including all common Choice Scarfers. Although, you could drop its Speed down to run maximum Speed to speed tie with other (cut down extra words) Adamant Qwilfish. It also means if you use Qwilfish in OU, you Speed tie with maximum Speed Adamant Kingdra, who due to most Swift Swim sweepers running lower Speed, is a dangerous threat, and can easily sweep your whole team with Outrage once the Steel-types are removed. In OU, Qwilfish has many things which differentiates it from Kabutops, firstly, Poison Jab will OHKO Celebi after a Swords Dance, whereas Kabutops has to run X-Scissor to deal with Celebi, and reducing its effectiveness against other Pokemon. (howso? It still OHKO's Celebi) Qwilfish also has access to Explosion which OHKOs most Pokemon in OU after a Swords Dance. (Ommit "Also, with the increase of Roserade leads, having someone to absorb Toxic Spikes can be game-breaking.") Redundancy here <</p>

<p>Rain Dance is a requirement when using Swords Dance Qwilfish on your team, because it increases its average Speed, as well as give a 1.5x boost on your STAB Waterfall. (more clear) Claydol makes a great partner with Qwilfish, resisting all of its weaknesses, and being able to set up Stealth Rock and Rain Dance. Stealth Rock makes it easier for Qwilfish to deal with Pokemon like Altaria, and so is a definite option when using Qwilfish. Uxie is another Pokemon that can set up Stealth Rock, while taking the Ground-, and Psychic-type moves commonly directed at Qwilfish. Uxie also has access to Memento which can help Qwilfish set up a Swords Dance, albeit at the cost of Uxie. Rotom is another great partner, taking the Ground-, Fighting-, and Electric-type moves aimed at Qwilfish while setting up Rain Dance, it can also use Hidden Power Grass to hit Quagsire and Gastrodon which Qwilfish can do nothing but explode on. Ludicolo is very dangerous in the Rain, and makes a great partner as it has access to Grass-type moves which can deal with the bulky Water-types which Qwilfish hates. Although, it may seem like a conflict of interests, Kabutops can actually make a nice partner to Qwilfish, they have problems with many of the same Pokemon, and so when Qwilfish Explodes on Quagsire or Gastrodon, it will open up an opportunity for Kabutops to finish off the opponent's team. Dugtrio can trap and kill Toxicroak, however it has to becareful when switching in on a Nasty Plot boost, because it can OHKO Dugtrio with Vacumm Wave. (extra info)</p>

<p>When using Qwilfish in OU, Ludicolo makes an amazing partner, it can deal with the bulky Water-types such as Suicune and Vaporeon, while Ludicolo can often sweep teams once Blissey and Celebi are down. Kingdra is an obvious offensive partner, since the Mixed Sweeper has trouble with Celebi who Qwilfish takes care of, while Kingdra can clear the way for a Qwilfish sweep. Swampert can set up Stealth Rock to help Qwilfish sweep while switching in on Electric-type moves with impunity, and also dealing with Tyranitar and Hippowdon whose Sand Stream ability clears the rain. Scizor is another good partner as its Bullet Punch can take out both Tyranitar and Abomasnow whose abilities clear the Rain while Abomasnow can also take the Water-, Grass-, Electric-, and Ice-type moves often found on Rain Dance teams with ease. Both Scizor and Swampert can also set up the Rain to help Qwilfish. Powerful Thunder abusers such as Rotom-W, Zapdos and Jolteon are other good partners to take on the bulky Water-types which trouble Qwilfish, while also being able to set up Rain Dance to help Qwilfish sweep.</p>

Click to expand...

2 cents, comments in parathesis

Thanks Franky, I've edited in those changes.
@EvilMario-I'll put in a little mention about using 252 HP and Damp Rock on the Rain Dance lead.

<p>Quagsire and Gastrodon are effective general counters as they are immune to Water-type moves because of Water Absorb, and resist Poison-type moves. Walrein and Cradily with Earthquake will also be effective although a +2 Rain boosted Waterfall is going to hurt Claydol

I assume you mean cradily as claydol is not mentioned

Thanks latios315, changed.

Brackets = personal comment
No brackets = insert text

joel22 said:

name: Spikes Support
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Poison Jab / Taunt
move 4: Explosion / Destiny Bond
item: Leftovers
ability: Poison Point
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although one of its lesser options, Qwilfish can still make a great Spikes user. The handy thing about Qwilfish is that five of the best spinners in UU have trouble switching into it, allowing Qwilfish to set up quite easily. Claydol, Donphan, Sandslash, and Torkoal are weak to Waterfall, and are therefore unlikely to switch-in, while Blastoise has trouble doing any real damage and gets worn down by Poison Jab.</p>

Click to expand...

joel22 said:

[Opinion]

<p>Qwilfish is a neat UU Pokémon that can support a team, take down opponents by sacrificing itself, or even sweep. It can also do well in OU taking out Pokemon such as Celebi with Poison Jab who cause most Rain Dance teams problems in that tier. It doesn't have the power of other Swift Swimmers like Kabutops and Gorebyss, but it has plenty in its movepool to offer. Its ability to soak up Toxic Spikes, higher Speed and access to Explosion are the main things that differentiate it from Kabutops, and it can make good use of this. When Rain is up, this is one Pokemon that you shouldn't underestimate(insert comma) or it will likely lad to your demise. DP hasn't changed it a whole lot, but there's still enough to recommend.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Quagsire and Gastrodon are effective general counters as they are immune to Water-type moves because of Water Absorb, and resist Poison-type moves. (Gastrodon doesn't have Water Absorb; you're thinking of Storm Drain, which is useless in 1v1. Remove it here) Walrein and Cradily with Earthquake will also be effective although a +2 Rain boosted Waterfall is going to hurt Cradily and Gastrodon (Gastrodon can be placed here). Most healthy Pokémon with decent defenses will be able to take a hit if they're not weak to Water or Poison, at which point most strong moves will deal a large amount of damage. Milotic and Lapras are some examples of such Pokemon although Milotic will need Hidden Power Electric or Grass, and Lapras will need Thunderbolt. (Lapras never uses Hidden Power)Toxicroak can also do well, soaking up Water-type moves and resisting Poison-type moves while hitting back hard, all Qwilfish can really do is explode. (Toxicroak should be mentioned in the first setence with Quagsire simply by replacing Gastrodon with Toxicroak. This sentence can then be removed) Further, Qwilfish's Speed is noticeably average, so the non-Rain Dance version can be outsped and hit with strong attacks from Choice item users. In OU, Gyarados and Salamence are great counters as they have Intimidate to weaken the attacks of Qwilfish while being able to take it out with Earthquake, and all Qwilfish can really do is explode. Swampert can take a +2 Waterfall in the Rain, and take out Qwilfish with Earthquake. If Vaporeon or Suicune have Hidden Power Electric then they can make great counters, taking a +2 Poison Jab, and hitting back hard.</p>

Click to expand...

Thanks, I've edited those in.

joel22 said:

Thanks Franky, I've edited in those changes.
@EvilMario-I'll put in a little mention about using 252 HP and Damp Rock on the Rain Dance lead.

Click to expand...

You might want to change the mention to 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 Spd.. which is designed to allow for enough bulk to take an unboosted positive natured, Tyranitar/Metagross Earthquake in OU, and be able to setup Rain Dance with Damp Rock. This allows Qwilfish to survive a neutral nature, Life Orb Aerodactyl Earthquake as well. If Bronzong does not invest in Attack, he is unlikely to 2HKO the same Qwilfish with Earthquake. Adamant Arcanine with Choice Band will be unable to 2HKO with Extreme Speed, if he foolishly stays in. Steelix will have a tough time (50/50 with Adamant, 0% chance without) OHKOing Qwilfish as well, if he does not hold a boosting item.

164 Speed, and a neutral nature allows Qwilfish to outspeed base 100s holding a Choice Scarf after Rain Dance is up.. allowing him to Destiny Bond. One could definitely run an even more bulky set, opting for Impish nature.. but I've not tried it.

Spikes (or Toxic Spikes) deserves a mention on the lead set with Destiny Bond, which can often buy you a turn to set. (Destiny Bond first turn, Rain Dance second turn, Desinty Bond, or Spikes third turn..). I always felt Taunt is underwhelming on Qwilfish as one of my primary Rain Dance leads, and even one layer of Spikes could help quite a bit.

Alright, I've edited those in EvilMario, thanks.

I didn't get a chance to test, but have you tested a suicide lead for Qwill? I've seen people do it with success because of Explosion. I know its like the Spike Support set but if I get a chance to test it, you can write up some lead comments there

I haven't tested that out yet Franky, I'll try it out today at sometime and see how it goes, if its good or someone else has used to a lot of success then I'll add in a little comment, thanks. Oh and if someone has time could they proofread the Rain Dance lead and Spikes Support sets.

Rain Dance Lead:
<p>Qwilfish can make a decent Rain Dance lead. The idea is to set up Rain Dance and attempt a sweep on your own, or Explode on something and send in your secondary Swift Swimmer unharmed. With Focus Sash, you will always survive a hit and get Rain Dance on the field unless you get hit with Taunt or are against a Fake Out lead. However, Damp Rock with an EV spread of 252 HP / 92 Def / 166 Spe is another option as it means you get eight turns of Rain Dance, which can be crucial, and also with the extra HP you'll be able to take Earthquakes from unboosted positive natured Metagross and Tyranitar in OU, and Steelix will have trouble OHKOing with Earthquake without significant Attack investment. The Speed EVs outspeed +1 positive base 100s allowing you to Destiny Bond them. However, generally the safety that Focus Sash provides is better. This should only be used in UU as fast Taunt leads are very common in OU, and also the very common Metagross lead can just take you out with Earthquake + Bullet Punch. Best to stick to Azelf or Crobat in OU.</p>

<p>Waterfall is your main attack, and although Qwilfish lacks Life Orb on this set, it still can deal plenty of damage. Poison Jab is better for sweeping and hits the Grass-type Pokemon which resist your main attack, but Taunt has its uses, too. You can prevent opponent setting up a Substitute or throwing status around, which can harm a team members chance of sweeping. However, Qwilfish is quite slow meaning its only useful against slow bulkier leads unless you have rain up. It also stops your opponent getting Stealth Rock on the field should they have it. Explosion is the preferred option in the last slot to go out with a bang, but Destiny Bond can be used instead to force your opponent to switch or faint, and due to Rain Dance, you'll be faster than them. Spikes or Toxic Spikes are other minor options for use in the third slot should you want to utilize entry hazards. Adamant nature is used to hit as powerfully as possible, and you don't need the extra Speed investment due to Swift Swim doubling your Speed. One of the main reasons to use Qwilfish over other Rain Dance leads such as Electrode and Ambipom is that you can straight out put the momentum of the match on your side.</p>

<p>Obviously, this Qwilfish should only be used on a Rain Dance team, and therefore needs to be supported by appropriate Pokemon for those kind of hyper offense teams. Ludicolo makes a great offensive partner taking out the bulky Water-types which Qwilfish hates. Since Qwilfish lures in Quagsire, Gastrodon and Toxicroak, Kabutops can make a effective partner since if Qwilfish manages to Explode on one of the aforementioned Pokemon, it will have an easier time at a sweep. Claydol covers all of the weaknesses of Qwilfish, and so is a great option for a partner. It can also set up both Stealth Rock and Rain Dance to support the team. Dugtrio can trap Toxicroak, and so can make a great partner, it can also trap Chansey which cause problems for the special sweepers in Rain Dance teams.</p>

<p>Qwilfish has a lot of trouble with Ambipom leads as they can use Fake Out to break Qwilfish's Sash, therefore Rotom can make a nice partner to switch into Fake Out, while also being able to set up Rain Dance to support the team. It will have to watch out for Payback though which will 2HKO 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Rotom 98.62% of the time if Ambipom is holding Life Orb. However, Rotom can burn Ambipom with Will-O-Wisp, and since Life Orb isn't too common on Lead Ambipom, Rotom will usually be fine. Uxie has great bulk and so makes another good switch in to Ambipom, and since U-turn and Payback only do around 25% to 252 HP / 252 Def Relaxed Uxie, it shouldn't have too much trouble getting in and setting up both Rain Dance and Stealth Rock to support your team.</p>[/quote]
Spikes Support:

<p>Although one of its lesser options, Qwilfish can still make a great Spikes user. The handy thing about Qwilfish is that five of the best spinners in UU have trouble switching into it, allowing Qwilfish to set up quite easily. Claydol, Donphan, Sandslash, and Torkoal are weak to Waterfall, and are therefore unlikely to switch in, while Blastoise has trouble doing any real damage and gets worn down by Poison Jab.</p>

<p>Waterfall is the main attacking option for Qwilfish while Poison Jab helps against Grass-types and Water resistant Flying-types, like Mantine and Altaria. Taunt is a nice option over Poison Jab, though, to stop opponents from setting up, and although Qwilfish doesn't have stellar defenses, it can still do well at stopping opponent's set up. For the last slot, Explosion is the preferred option to go out with a bang, but Destiny Bond is a good alternative, and might cause some switching if you reveal it early. Thunder Wave is a minor option, but if your team is slow, it could be helpful, and with the 20% flinch rate of Waterfall, Qwilfish can be an annoyer of sorts. Although Qwilfish may seem outclassed by Omastar as a Spikes user, its access to Explosion, Taunt and higher Speed are some big things which set it apart from Omastar. It can also soak up Toxic Spikes which stall teams hate.</p>

<p>The EVs are aimed at boosting the Qwilfish's Attack while also letting it take hits better, with the rest put in Speed. Poison Point is the preferred ability as the odd chance of poisoning your opponent could prove crucial, and with only 4 EVs in Speed, Qwilfish won't be able to make that good use of Swift Swim anyway.</p>

<p>A Ghost-type Pokemon is a requirement as a partner to this set to stop opponents from just easily spinning away your Spikes and ruining all your work. Rotom, Spiritomb and Mismagius are the best options for that slot, they all have access to Will-O-Wisp to cripple your opponents while with Perish Song Mismagius can put your opponents in a horrible position where they want to switch because of Perish Song, but don't want to because of Spikes. Spiritomb can also use Pain Split to annoy Qwilfish. Rotom is also a great dual screener to help your team take hits better. Obviously, Qwilfish can do well on stall teams as Spikes are very important to stall teams, and so Chansey is a great partner to take special attacks aimed at Qwilfish. Donphan has an immunity to Electric-type moves and can also set up Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin to help stall teams, and so can make a nice partner. Altaria has an immunity to Ground-type moves and can use Toxic to poison the bulky Water-types which cause Qwilfish problems.</p>

Click to expand...

Not a bad revamp overall, though remember that special isn't capitalized unless speaking about Special Attack or Special Defense.

Thanks a lot Xia, edited in the changes, and I'll try to remember about the special thing.

Edits and comments.

Thanks a lot for that AromaFlora, I've edited in those changes :)

The only nitpick I have is on the Spikes set. I have tested a Waterfall / Taunt / Spikes / Destiny Bond set extensively in the past, which you have as slashed options, but IMO max Attack is very inefficient for that build. Speed is far more important for those moves, whilst Attack is not needed as much with only one attack on the set. I used this setup:

name: Spikes Support
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Destiny Bond
item: Leftovers or Black Sludge
ability: Poison Point
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 32 SpD / 224 Spe

The purpose of the set is to use Qwilfish's unique typing in order to set up on common bulky threats such as Milotic and SubPunchers like Azumarill and Poliwrath, as well as check certain hard hitters like Blaziken. 224 Speed EVs and Jolly nature allow Qwilfish to outrun anything up to Timid LO Milotic, whilst max HP gives it the same physical bulk as the default spread, capable of taking two Focus Punches from both Azumarill and Poliwrath. The rest is thrown into special defense to take strong (but hopefully resisted) special attacks a bit better, especially from LO Milotic.

After setting up and close to dying, Destiny Bond will take the opponent with you should they attack again. If you predict a non-attacking move, Taunt will render it useless, allowing you to use Destiny Bond the following turn to make them either switch or die. If they switch, that Pokemon will also die if it attacks you, and you can repeat the process if it happens to be a slower Pokemon. Taunt also allows you to check certain SubSalac Pokemon, Blaziken and Feraligatr being the most common. Come in on Sub, then Taunt to prevent further setup, forcing them to use ineffective attacks or switch out. This allows for free Spikes and/or a possible kill with Destiny Bond.

Poison Point works great on this kind of set as most of the things that you're coming in on use contact moves and therefore risk Poison. This is also useful against some common spinners like Blastose and Hitmontop, who often won't be carrying an effective attack to hit you with. Rapid Spin has a good chance to inflict Poison back, meaning that you can sometimes keep setting up Spikes as they eventually kill themselves through Poison. Any Rest attempts can be prevented with Taunt.

Okay, that was very long for a nitpick, but I really wanted to justfy the set as best I could. I hope you at least mention some of this somewhere in the analysis, and rest assured that I know what I am talking about.

Lemmiwinks MkII I'll put in a mention about the EV spread somewhere.

Spikes Support

<p>The EVs are aimed at boosting Qwilfish's Attack while also letting it take hits better, with the rest put in Speed. Poison Point is the preferred ability as the odd chance of poisoning your opponent could prove crucial, and with only 4 EVs in Speed, Qwilfish won't be able to make that good use of Swift Swim anyway. Running an EV spread of 252 HP / 32 SpD / 224 Spe is another option; (semi-colon) this outruns Timid LO Milotic and anything slower though at the cost of Attack, therefore this is best when running Spikes / Waterfall / Taunt / Destiny Bond.</p>

Too much run-on sentences, haha. xD

Edited that in.

I think this is finished now.
EDIT: Done a few more little edits, as for tier changes, I didn't find any mentions of Yanmega or Roserade in it so thats all fine. Added Aqua Jet to other options.

Just wanted to mention that since there already is an OU analysis for Qwilfish, you can remove any/everything that mentions OU options/Pokemon/ecetera. =]

Ok, now that I've finally managed to get time to get back to this, I've removed OU mentions and will soon add a few more bits to do with some new Pokemon that work well with it, etc.

Would it be at all possible that a "bulky spiker" could be mentioned in OO at least ?

The set is pretty much this

[SET]
name: Bulky Spiker
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Pain Split
move 3: Poison Jab
move 4: Taunt / Aqua Jet
item: Leftovers
ability: Poison Point
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 106 SpD / 6 Spe

If you DO want to make a separate set for it. (Yes this was tested and i have used it to great success).

Basically this Qwilfish is able to switch into the majority of waters i.e Azumarril (near 100% counter being resistant to like its whole set bar the normal moves), most Milotic, physical fire types (see Arcanine) and most defensive pokemon and lay Spikes whilst Taunting recovery and Pain Splitting off damage thus getting out more Spikes. Also it is also able to beat Sub Roost Moltres and Articuno and even Stallrein 1vs1 and forces them to switch out. Absorbing Toxic Spikes additionally, is a great niche.

Poison Jab is chosen as the STAB move as it lets you actually hit other water types such as Sub Punch Azumarril so you can break its sub. Aqua Jet lets you revenge kill Houndoom (it has a good chance to KO with SR up) and can KO Blaziken at around 50% health and makes Dugtrio think twice about switching in, though Shed Shell could be mentioned but is a lesser option than Leftovers.

The evs arent really overly specific, they just let you sponge physical hits, take neutral hidden powers from the likes of Milotic and resisted special hits well.

If that set is to be added, we should either a) wait for Froslass to be banned (which is up in the air), or b) make a portion of its analysis about what the point of using it over Froslass is. I don't really see any reasons myself too be honest....maybe its ability to set up on bulky waters "easier".