I will break the overused|OU RMT

Ok, so this is my first RMT after becoming a member here. Let me tell you in advance, that i am focusing on not using top tier OUs like latias, salamence, scizor, jirachi etc. Yes, there is heatran, but that's the limit. It's about improving my skills and not winning without top tiers. So yeah, raters, take pity on me and suggest something non-top tier xD. Ok, here we go.

At a glance:



A closer look:
@Leftovers
Sassy|Levitate
252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 Def
~Gyro Ball
~Stealth Rock
~Earthquake
~Explosion

Standard bronzong, i guess. It's aim is to setup stealth rocks and then try to wall, and explode on threats, sometimes even kill with gyro ball. Yes, it's not fast enough to stop taunt, but most taunt leads are fast, so i usually predict the taunt and use gyro ball on them, 2HKOing leads like azelf, aerodactyl etc. Now, if i see a jirachi lead i go to heatran most of the time, making its trick (if carrying) useless, and getting a free turn. 252 Special defence EVs can survive 1 flamethrower from Modest 252 Heatran, and could KO back with earthquake+residual damage from stealth rock.

@Choice Band
Jolly|Arena Trap
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Aerial Ace
~Night Slash/Sucker Punch

Again, standard revenge killer dugtrio with choice band, for the power to boost it's okay-ish attack. It doesn't have a very good movepool, so i've put in it's limited moves. Now, this dugtrio has won me matches, and can score an OHKO with earthquake on a 0 Def Tyranitar, outspeeding scarf variants. It proves to be very useful at times. Night slash is for the occasional starmie, and gengar. Pursuit could also be used. Aerial ace can OHKO some breloom, which is really helpful, considering how irritating breloom is to this team xD it's one of my second breloom counters.

@Leftovers
Bold|Pressure
248 HP, 180 Def, 80 Spe
~Thunderbolt
~Toxic
~Roost
~Substitute

Omg i simply love this thing. It slowly kills teams. The annoyer, i call it. Once it's under a sub, it can keep subbing and roosting and outstall scarf tyranitar's stone edge via pressure. Toxic can be inflicted on many pokemon resisting thunderbolt, like latias, swampert, gliscor etc. Although some gliscor which are faster than me are a problem if they use taunt, leaving me completely walled. It's a standard annoyer, not much to say. My second breloom counter.

@Choice Scarf
Naive|Flash Fire
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
~Flamethrower/Fire Blast?
~Earth Power
~Hidden Power [Electric]
~Explosion

Standard Scarfran. Timid is to outspeed +1 adamant gyarados, and hit a OHKO with stealth rock in play. In fact, HP electric is simply for gyarados, considering the waterfall, stone edge, earthquake variants can wreck my team. My trick insurance. This makes lead tricksters like azelf and jirachi useless pretty much. Now, a suggestion from another forum said fire blast over flamethrower so i added that.

@Leftovers
Impish|Water Absorb
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
~Waterfall
~Counter
~Toxic
~Recover

My epic defensive wall. It is an ideal counter to gyarados carrying Waterfall and Stone Edge, +6 SE doing about 55-60%. Covers my water weakness. Can be very useful at times, taking 40% from a CB tyranitar's crunch and 35% from CB flygon's earthquake and it takes about 50% from banded scizor's U-Turn, countering back for the certain OHKO. This quagsire can take an outrage from a +1 mence and outrage it, but i depend on the sole fact that my opponent underestimates quagsire. This thing wins me matches =) luckily, this is not walled by gliscor, hitting it with waterfall if it taunts.

@Life Orb
Naive|Blaze
60 Atk, 252 SpA, 196 Spe
~Fire Blast/Flamethrower?
~Close Combat
~Hidden Power [Ice]
~Grass Knot

My mixed sweeper, to break the skarmbliss combo. This thingy sweeps teams, but then again, it's what it's meant for. Grass Knot takes out at least 40 from +1 suicune, letting me weaken it with grass knot, and then mabye close combat, or another grass knot. HP ice OHKOs salamences and takes about 40 from latias, provided i move first. Helps a lot. Again, fire blast was suggested over flamethrower.
 
You have to lengthen your descriptions on Heatran and Infernape. Dont just say "This is the Standard blah set. Not much to say here. It kills stuff."You should have some detail about what each move does and why you chose the pokemon (Say what threats it kills for you).

Onto the team. First, a nitpick, add 4 Attack EVs and take off 4 Speed EVs on Infernape. The extra speed EVs don't let you outspeed anything extra bar other Infernapes. Dugtrio already murders Infernape anyway :p. Your team is pretty weak to Salamence. DD Salamence runs over your team and your only way of killing it is to explode on it with Bronzong, or when it's locked into Outrage, Explode with Bronzong/Heatran. Keeping in mind that you do not want to use common pokemon, I won't recommend any pokemon in the top 10. A pokemon which just screams at me for a Salamence revenge-killer is Starmie. Chocie Scarf Starmie, to be more precise. You could replace Heatran with Starmie as Starmie basically does what your Heatran is doing for you, but does other things as well e.g. revenge kill Salamence. If you decide to make this change (test first), you'll have a bit of a weakness to Grass. To cure this problem, you can simply change your Bronzong lead into the standard Heatran lead.

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
~ Stealth Rock
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Explosion

It's faster and stronger. That's basically it. Also, he has Earth Power and STAB Fire Blast. While I'm on lead suggestions, you could opt for the standard Metagross lead (although you do not want to use common pokemon :p). It's the same as Bronzong except better physically defensively, faster and better offensively. The rest of the team seems fine except from Zapdos. How exactly does it outstall Scarf Tyranitar's Stone Edge? It outspeeds and does enough damage for you to not be able to make a sub.

Edit: Here's the Scarf Starmie set:

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timd/Modest Nature
Natural Cure
~ Surf/Hydro Pump
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunderbolt
~ Grass Knot/Trick/Psychic
 
Thanks quickie, i'll test those changes. Also, when a t'tar comes in when i'm already under a sub, then i outstall it by subbing and roosting. Remember, after 3 subs and a roost SE is outstalled.
 
Thanks quickie, i'll test those changes. Also, when a t'tar comes in when i'm already under a sub, then i outstall it by subbing and roosting. Remember, after 3 subs and a roost SE is outstalled.
Turn 1: Tyranitar switches in. You sub.
Turn 2: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. You a) Sub or b) Roost
Turn 3a: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. You a) Sub or b) Roost
Turn 3b: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. You try to sub but fail. If you Roost, you faint next turn.
Turn 4a: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. You a) Sub or b)Roost
Turn 4b: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. Same as 3b.
It basically goes on until you either a) can't make any subs or b) forced to switch/faint.
 

Aerrow

hunter
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Turn 1: Tyranitar switches in. You sub.
Turn 2: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. You a) Sub or b) Roost
Turn 3a: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. You a) Sub or b) Roost
Turn 3b: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. You try to sub but fail. If you Roost, you faint next turn.
Turn 4a: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. You a) Sub or b)Roost
Turn 4b: Tyranitar uses Stone Edge. Same as 3b.
It basically goes on until you either a) can't make any subs or b) forced to switch/faint.
Or if the stone edge misses where you get a chance.
 
Awesome team you've got going, it came up when I googled something so I joined to give you criticism.

Keeping in mind that you do not want to use common pokemon, I won't recommend any pokemon in the top 10.
OMG YOU ARE SO INDIE WE SHOULD TOTALLY GO OUT!!1!!!elevenone!!

A pokemon which just screams at me for a Salamence revenge-killer is Starmie.
Starmie doesn't strike me as a screamer what with it's lack of a mouth besides aren't you too cool and indie to listen to mainstream losers like Starmie?
You could replace Heatran with Starmie as Starmie basically does what your Heatran is doing for you, but does other things as well e.g. revenge kill Salamence.
Scarftran with Dragon pulse says whatsup.
Standard Heatran lead.
This relationship is over


While I'm on lead suggestions, you could opt for the standard Metagross lead

This isn't winning my love back
The rest of the team seems fine except from Zapdos. How exactly does it outstall Scarf Tyranitar's Stone Edge? It outspeeds and does enough damage for you to not be able to make a sub.
The sub would be up before T-tar even comes into play


@Choice Band
I think dugtrio is sort of nifty and I used to run one but he is awfully frail but if he works for you then by all means use him but I recommend using Pursuit instead.


In regards to Salamence with outrage Scarf Latias is an awesome revenge killer that can put a salamence away for good. Scarf Heatran with DP instead of HP-electric works wonders as well and is also sort of already in your team D: Starmie makes sense in this team for rapid spin support but not with a choice scarf. Unless you use rapid spin and recover then by all means give them as many free hits as you want and switch out every other move! I think a more durable starmie makes sense.

Perhaps you could try the oh so original Timid Starmie with Lefties T-Bolt,Rapid Spin,Ice Beam, Recover and an ev spread of 136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe(stats shamelessly copy pasted)
Surf could be used in place of T-bolt but that would mean mo4r Gyarados.


Leading off with Heatran is down right silly to me but maybe i'm just crazy. If you do lead with Heatran don't use Explode, he works so well as a late game sweeper. And you would get pro-dicted on the switch if you ever tried to sneak a kill on an enemy Heatran. So yeah leading with Heatran ruins the mystique of Flash Fire and doesn't really fair well against the oh so awesome INFERNAPE LEAD THAT FALLEN DESTINY OVERLOOKED!

Leadape is just as much of a mixed sweeper as your Infernape only Lead-ape can lay rocks. Also Fake-out is awesome.

So yeah ditch the Bronzong promote Infernape to party leader, then pick up a Starmie and tweak the Heatran.


Only other thing I can advise is perhaps toxi-stall Rotom over Zapdos for the fighting immunity that you may want. But that would mean you don't get to burn their pp
 
as someone mentioned earlier, the dd mence weakness

the problem is actually dugtrio
the second it uses earthquake, salamence comes in to get a free dragon dance

irrelevant comment: if np sweeper celebi becomes popular it could seriously hurt teams like this
 
Not really. Infernape can handle it pretty much... also, did i mention i don't want to use commonly used pokemon? Also, starmie can kill mence on the DD since it's scarfed.
 
Lose dugtiro he does nothing for the team. Infernape can beat blissey, heatran can explode on her, zapdos can outstall, bronzong can explode, etc. You already have heatran as a revenge killer so you dont really need another one. I suggest an expert belt tyranitar over him so you can pursuit latias so infernape/heatran can sweep. Zapdos will also apreciate this support and you can even pursuit blissey after she is toxiced by zapdos.
 
Duggy rapes Tar and Breloom. Why lose it if he doesn't want to; just because this team doesn't have scizor doesn't mean you can hate on it like that.

As much as I respect you for trying to use the Zong lead, I can't say that it holds much merit. I would also have to recommend using ape as your lead and picking up something in his place. While it's true that Scarf Starmie makes a good replacement, in the spirit of being original, here's a set I recently came up with for starmie.

Starmie@Wide lense
136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe
~Hydro pump
~Thunder
~Blizzard
~Recover/Rapid spin

Similar to the Rapid Spin set but oh so much more deadly. I dare say that it rivals the non-choice attacking set in power, without that depressing life orb damage. Granted, this set will require you to adjust your team a little bit more, I think it would be totally worth it :D.
 
If your afraid of Salamence which, I don't understand why you would be, why not just replace Dugtrio for Mamoswine?

Mamoswine@Expert Belt
Adamant
252Atk / 252Spe / 4Def
Ice Shard
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Substitute/Superpower

This set allows you to beat Salamence and Dragonite with ease with Ice Shard. Earthquake is for STAB. Stone Edge hits pokemon like Gyarados hard. The last move is personal preference. I normally go with Substitute because the ability to not lose any Attack from Gyarados on the switch in, being able to kill Scizor with Earthquake and Ice Shard, and just helping with prediction is much better. Superpower would be used for Blissey
 
I'm afraid because it can sweep my team after one DD xD. or, that's what many people say. I would think to explode on mence with bronzong. Anyhow, i shall try mamoswine. THe problem is, dugtrio helps me out in certain situations. For example, blissey. If infernape goes down and blissey lives, i can trap it and EQ it to death. So yeah.. but i'll try mamoswine out anyways. Thanks. Any more rates? Some final suggestions, and then i'm done. Thanks to all raters.
 
Hello,

Got your PM, so here is my rate.
Basically, your team has two major problems.
-Your team is really weak to common set up sweepers like DD Mence, DD Dragonite, Taunt DD Gyarados, Nasty Plot Infernape and others.
-Second, your team kind of lacks a real win option, I mean something that actually wins the game for you. Dugtrio and heatran can revenge some stuff, Zapdos, Quagsire and bronzong can wall some stuff but they won't finish the foe. Infernape is really your only immediate threat but without a boosting move it probably won't get past its counters. So I will focus on that and try to give you some help.

First of all, your team needs a really reliable revenge killer. I also like Dugtrio, but even though it can trap and kill some things it's attack stat is simply too low to really revenge things that need to be revenged. Therefore I would drop it for Scarf Flygon.
Flygon@Choice Scarf
Jolly-252Atk, 252Spe, 4HP
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-U-Turn
-Stone Edge
This Flygon will revenge kill CM Latias, DD Salamence, DD Dragonite, NP Infernape, DD Kingdra,... the list goes on and on. It also provides you with a strong dragon move, something all teams love to have. Also you don't lose stab Earthquake.

Now I think you should change Quagsire and Bronzong as those two simply fail to really harm your opponent. Quagsire should be replaced by Vaporeon. Vappy will provide you with Wish support, which is essential for Flygon, Heatran and Infernape. It still checks Gyarados very well.
Vaporeon@Leftovers
Bold-188HP, 252Def, 68SpDef
-Surf
-Roar
-Wish
-Protect
Roar provides you with the importatnt phazing move so Baton Pass teams will have a hard time continuing their chain.

Now Bronzong is not too bad as a lead, so you can keep it if you want. Usually I think that there are better choices for your team but the fat that you do not want to use very common OU pokemon limits my options. So I think you can keep it. But I would change its item to Lum Berry in order to take a Sleep Powder or a Spore from Roserade and Smeargle respectively, so that you can either get up Stealth Rocks early or Attack them to break their Sash.

On Heatran you should use Dragon Pulse over HP Electric as you should never try to revenge kill any DD Gyarados with it. Most Gyarados are Jolly, so they will outspeed your Heatran after a DD and easily ko with Earthquake or Waterfall. Dragon Pulse will hit dragon swutch ins like Mence and Latias hard. As Heatran is scarfed, it outspeeds MixMence and Non-Scarf Latias, so can work as a backup revenge killer for those (although it won't damage Latias much).

A few additional comments:
Your team heavily relies on Zapdos to wear down stall teams, so be careful with it.
Also Infernape is the only pokemon in the team who packs really strong moves, so it could be difficult for you to wear bulkier teams down. Therefore you should try to keep Infernape hidden until late game, because only then it will really be able to rip a team apart.
You absolutely rely on Flygon to revenge kill many dangerous threats, so try not to lose it too early. For example you should avoid locking yourself into Outrage if you don't know your opponent's team yet.

Hope I could help. Good Luck !
 
Thanks a LOT, acc. I shall try those changes. Actually, zapdos is kinda the core of my team, so yes. I do rely on it a lot xP. I'll test them and get back ASAP. Thank you, all raters, who kindly agreed to rate my team. I can still take suggestions, though the rate is pretty much over.

Thanks.
 
Why not try replacing bronzong with metagross?
I presonally think metagross is a better lead but if you have any reason why bronzong will be better please tell me and do not mention it only having one weakness due to it's ability.
 
Why not try replacing bronzong with metagross?
I presonally think metagross is a better lead but if you have any reason why bronzong will be better please tell me and do not mention it only having one weakness due to it's ability.
This idea is pretty good. To be honest I also considered Metagross in the lead slot. The thing is that he does not want to use the most common OU pokemon, Heatran and Infernape are the limit as he said. Therefore Bronzong will probably keep the lead slot.

@Fallen Destiny: I'm glad my suggestions helped. Solid team now. Have fun !
 
Yes, i did try metagross, but my 'consience' told me no, FD. Not metagross. No more top-tiers xD. So yeah, i chose bronzong. Although i don't see why bronzong is such a bad lead, mabye because no one uses it anymore.
 
Awesome team you've got going, it came up when I googled something so I joined to give you criticism.


OMG YOU ARE SO INDIE WE SHOULD TOTALLY GO OUT!!1!!!elevenone!!


Starmie doesn't strike me as a screamer what with it's lack of a mouth besides aren't you too cool and indie to listen to mainstream losers like Starmie?

Scarftran with Dragon pulse says whatsup.

This relationship is over



This isn't winning my love back

The sub would be up before T-tar even comes into play



I think dugtrio is sort of nifty and I used to run one but he is awfully frail but if he works for you then by all means use him but I recommend using Pursuit instead.


In regards to Salamence with outrage Scarf Latias is an awesome revenge killer that can put a salamence away for good. Scarf Heatran with DP instead of HP-electric works wonders as well and is also sort of already in your team D: Starmie makes sense in this team for rapid spin support but not with a choice scarf. Unless you use rapid spin and recover then by all means give them as many free hits as you want and switch out every other move! I think a more durable starmie makes sense.

Perhaps you could try the oh so original Timid Starmie with Lefties T-Bolt,Rapid Spin,Ice Beam, Recover and an ev spread of 136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe(stats shamelessly copy pasted)
Surf could be used in place of T-bolt but that would mean mo4r Gyarados.


Leading off with Heatran is down right silly to me but maybe i'm just crazy. If you do lead with Heatran don't use Explode, he works so well as a late game sweeper. And you would get pro-dicted on the switch if you ever tried to sneak a kill on an enemy Heatran. So yeah leading with Heatran ruins the mystique of Flash Fire and doesn't really fair well against the oh so awesome INFERNAPE LEAD THAT FALLEN DESTINY OVERLOOKED!

Leadape is just as much of a mixed sweeper as your Infernape only Lead-ape can lay rocks. Also Fake-out is awesome.

So yeah ditch the Bronzong promote Infernape to party leader, then pick up a Starmie and tweak the Heatran.


Only other thing I can advise is perhaps toxi-stall Rotom over Zapdos for the fighting immunity that you may want. But that would mean you don't get to burn their pp
There is something wrong with you.

Anyways, about the rate, you should take out quagsire and put in swampert. As swampert outclasses quagsire in every aspect. Especially as a defensive wall. I m gonna go ahead and recommend a offensive Cursepert.

Careful Swampert@Leftovers
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Att
~ Curse
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Punch / Stone Edge
~
Waterfall

@Choice Band
Jolly|Arena Trap
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Aerial Ace
~Night Slash/Sucker Punch
I recommend that you use the following moveset instead since I dont see why you are keeping aerial ace, Brelooms can be easily taken care of with Infernape or Zapdos. Earthquake / Stone Edge / Sucker Punch / Pursuit. This is as close to a UU Scizor as you can get.

On a whole, your team seems to be bulky water weak. Watch out for the likes of swampert, vaporeon, and suicune.
Good luck with your team.
 
Yes, i did try metagross, but my 'consience' told me no, FD. Not metagross. No more top-tiers xD. So yeah, i chose bronzong. Although i don't see why bronzong is such a bad lead, mabye because no one uses it anymore.
Maybe the reason why not many of the good players seem to want to help you is because of the emphasized line above.

You are mencingly weak to Mence, the MOST dangerous threat in the OU meta ATM. Unfortunately, I can't suggest anything because they are "top tier".

Not really. Infernape can handle it pretty much... also, did i mention i don't want to use commonly used pokemon? Also, starmie can kill mence on the DD since it's scarfed.
Actually, no. Ape gets raped by +1 from EQ before he can even move.

Scarftran can deal with Mence, BUT only Mence that has not found time to set up +1 yet, since +1 can even outspeed Scarftran. I think the main reason for your DD Mence weakness is Dugtrio, since an untimely EQ can leave your team vulnerable to a +1 Mence sweep.

Nah, zapdos can most likely deal with all the bulky waters and thanks.
No. Not really. Swampert. You lack HP Grass to win over Swampert, and Resttalk Swampert runs all over your Zapdos.

And have you even tested this team yet? It seems like you just slapped on 6 Pokemon and posted an RMT expecting everyone to fix up your problems before you send it into battle.
 
No, no! Listen, please don't bother posting if you don't have a proper rate or want to suggest something. Just because you are shallow enough to use scizor, rotom-a, jirachi, salamence, latias etc. that doesn't mean every team without the top most used pokemon sucks. And yes, what do you know about my testing the team? I have made 6 versions of this team, and it's very easy for you to come and say this. I have tested it so much, and some people, unlike you, have rated it instead of raging. How do you know how many battles i have battled with this team? Think before you say things like that again.

I'm welcome for more rates.
 

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