Drapion (QC edit, bulky swords dance)

Status: Posted

www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/drapion



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[SET]
name: Bulky Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Earthquake / Protect
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a slight variation from the standard Swords Dance set. This version primarily focuses on obtaining more than one Swords Dance boost with the help of a bulky EV spread. Drapion's exceptional bulk and typing allow it to set-up on many specially-inclined sweepers, such as Mismagius, Rotom, and Choiced Alakazam. This set can potentially be dangerous with more Swords Dance boosts in the long run; however, with the loss of immediate power from the lack of Life Orb and heavy Attack investment, Drapion is left more vulnerable to its typical counters, so it's highly recommended to bring him out late-game once everyone has been scouted. A well-timed set up is required for this set to truly function at its best.</p>

<p>Taunt is incredibly useful for this set as it allows Drapion to easily shut down status from common checks such as Registeel, Weezing, and Spiritomb. Consequently, this will give Drapion another chance to use Swords Dance to increase his Attack to higher levels. Aqua Tail is another option to look for over Taunt if you want to nail bulky Ground-types like Rhyperior and Donphan for super effective damage. Crunch and Earthquake provide optimal coverage alongside each other. Running Protect at the expense of losing coverage on Steel-types is another option to look for if you find Leftovers recovery and PP stalling more convinient.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs capitalize on giving Drapion enough Speed to beat beneficial Base 80 Pokemon. The majority of the EVs are sent to HP and Special Defense in order to give Drapion more bulk to take hits from the opponent. Another spread to look for to pump up its Special Defense stat is an EV spread of 252 HP / 214 SpD / 44 Spe. The Speed is given to outrun neutral Base 80 Pokemon. If you prefer to shut down Rotom's Will-O-Wisp attempts with Taunt, running 252 HP / 32 SpD / 224 Spe. The extra Speed also allows you to outrun Toxicroak and Moltres.</p>

<p>Since this set is not as threatening as the standard Swords Dance set, Drapion will struggle muscling his way through bulky Ground-types such as Donphan, Steelix, and Rhyperior. The former two can be dealt with by Choice Band Dugtrio once they are weakened, allowing Drapion to sweep easier. Donphan can be effectively dealt with by constantly beating its HP down until its low enough for Drapion to kill. Using Choice Band Scyther can be quite beneficial thanks to its Ground immunity and ability to lure out Donphan and strip its HP with repeated U-turns. Substitute Torterra make a valuable teammate alongside Drapion since it can take advantage of Drapion luring in the aforementioned threats. Substitute Torterra can easily hide behind a Substitute and keep the offensive momentum going.</p>

Just a minor nitpick because I don't usually grammar check and because I'm very sleepy: viscious = vicious (last paragraph) I guess.

franky said:

Status: Posted

www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/drapion

________________________________________________________________

[SET]
name: Bulky Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Earthquake
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a slight variation from the standard Swords Dance set. This version primarily focuses on scoring more than one Swords Dance boost with the help of a bulky EV spread. Drapion's exceptional bulk and typing allow it to set-up on many specially-inclined sweepers, such as Mismagius, Rotom, and Choiced Alakazam. This set can potentially be dangerous with more Swords Dance boosts in the long run; however, with the loss of immediate power from the lack of Life Orb and heavy Attack investment, Drapion is left more vulnerable to its typical counters, so it's highly recommended to bring him out late-game once everyone has been scouted. A well-timed set up is required for this set to truly function at its best.</p>

<p>Taunt is extremely convenient for this set as it allows Drapion to easily shut down status from common checks such as Registeel, Weezing, and Spiritomb. Consequently, this will give Drapion another chance to use Swords Dance to increase his Attack to higher levels. Aqua Tail is another option to look for over Taunt if you want to nail bulky Ground-types like Rhyperior and Donphan for super effective damage. Crunch and Earthquake provide optimal coverage alongside each other.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs capitalize on giving Drapion enough Speed to beat Timid Rotom, essentially allowing it to shut down any attempts to burn Drapion with Will-O-Wisp. The majority of the EVs are sent to HP in order to give Drapion more bulk to take hits from the opponent.</p>

<p>Since this set is not as threatening as the standard Swords Dance set, Drapion will struggle muscling his way through bulky Ground-types such as Donphan, Steelix, and Rhyperior. The former two can be dealt with Choice Band Dugtrio once they are weakened, allowing Drapion to sweep easier. Donphan can be effectively dealt with by constantly beating its HP down until its low enough for Drapion to kill. Using Choice Band Scyther can be quite beneficial thanks to its Ground immunity and ability to lure and strip Donphan's HP with repeated U-turns.</p>

Click to expand...

Cool stuff franky. Just make sure you keep your pronouns consistent.

just a quick note -- Aqua Tail is a pretty horrible option on this set because it doesn't do enough damage with these EVs and also causes Drapion to lose out on Taunt which is basically the entire point of the set. I don't even think you should mention Aqua Tail in the SC because it is something no one should run.

also, I'm a little torn between the EV spread you have and one I used a lot on this set when I had Drapion for QC, which was Jolly 252 HP / 136 Spe / 120 SpD. the first difference is taking the attack EVs off because they don't really give any notable KOs and the point of the set is more focused on bulky boosting instead of immediate damage. the second difference is the one that I'm the most iffy about; 136 Spe + Jolly lets Drapion beat +80 Speed Pokemon but means it loses to Moltres and Toxicroak and Rotom. however, I think the fact that this gives you extra EVs to invest in SpD outweighs the downsides: the extra SpD gives Drapion more leeway in capitalizing on its resistances, and most notably turns Milotic's Surf from a 2HKO on average (47% minimum) into a never-2HKO (46% maximum). Moltres and Toxicroak aren't very common on the defensive teams that this Drapion mainly preys on, and +2 Crunch doesn't even come close to KOing Moltres without SR. meanwhile, max Speed Rotom is somewhat common but I don't think many players will be in much of a hurry to use Rotom as their Drapion check even if it has Will-O-Wisp.

now that I think about it though, it might be worthwhile to bump Drapion's Speed down even more and invest some EVs into Defense. the only things it can hit super effectively in the 70-90 range are Rotom, Toxicroak, Blaziken, and some Arcanine. a spread with 136 Spe or even 0 Spe Impish (with the EVs split between Def and SpD for the latter) might be a better idea than the current one. I just don't like how the extra Speed makes it harder to exploit Drapion's resistances -- it feels like a compromise spread that tries to do too much and ends up not working well; it's not strong enough to exploit its extra Speed, but isn't bulky enough to exploit its typing and Taunt.

more input from people who've used this set on the EV spread will definitely help here, imo.

place holder

[SET]
name: Bulky Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Earthquake
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a slight variation from the standard Swords Dance set. This version primarily focuses on scoring more than one Swords Dance boost with the help of a bulky EV spread. Drapion's exceptional bulk and typing allow it to set-up on many specially-inclined sweepers, such as Mismagius, Rotom, and Choiced Alakazam. This set can potentially be dangerous with more Swords Dance boosts in the long run; however, with the loss of immediate power from the lack of Life Orb and heavy Attack investment, Drapion is left more vulnerable to its typical counters, so it's highly recommended to bring him out late-game once everyone has been scouted. A well-timed set up is required for this set to truly function at its best.</p>

<p>Taunt is extremely convenient for this set as it allows Drapion to easily shut down status from common checks such as Registeel, Weezing, and Spiritomb. Consequently, this will give Drapion another chance to use Swords Dance to increase his Attack to higher levels. Aqua Tail is another option to look for over Taunt if you want to nail bulky Ground-types like Rhyperior and Donphan for super effective damage. Crunch and Earthquake provide optimal coverage alongside each other.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs capitalize on giving Drapion enough Speed to beat Timid Rotom, essentially allowing it to shut down any attempts to burn Drapion with Will-O-Wisp. The majority of the EVs are sent to HP in order to give Drapion more bulk to take hits from the opponent.</p>

<p> Since this set is not as threatening as the standard Swords Dance set, Drapion will struggle muscling his way through bulky Ground-types such as Donphan, Steelix, and Rhyperior. The former two can be dealt with by Choice Band Dugtrio once they are weakened, allowing Drapion to sweep easier. Donphan can be effectively dealt with by constantly beating its HP down until its low enough for Drapion to kill. Using Choice Band Scyther can be quite beneficial thanks to its Ground immunity and ability to lure and strip Donphan's HP with repeated U-turns.</p>


bold is add

all i could find but i'll look through it a bit more later

[SET]
name: Bulky Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Earthquake
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a slight variation from the standard Swords Dance set. This version primarily focuses on obtaining [better word here imo] more than one Swords Dance boost with the help of a bulky EV spread. Drapion's exceptional bulk and typing allows him [to comply with the new rule] to set-up on many specially-inclined sweepers, such as Mismagius, Rotom, and Choiced Alakazam. This set can potentially be dangerous with more Swords Dance boosts in the long run; however, with the loss of immediate power from the lack of Life Orb and heavy Attack investment, Drapion is left more vulnerable to his typical counters, so it's highly recommended to bring him out late-game once everyone has been scouted. A well-timed set up is required for this set to truly function at its best.</p>

<p>Taunt is extremely convenient for this set as it allows Drapion to easily shut down status from common checks such as Registeel, Weezing, and Spiritomb. Consequently, this will give Drapion another chance to use Swords Dance to increase his Attack to higher levels. Aqua Tail is another option to look for over Taunt if you want to nail bulky Ground-types like Rhyperior and Donphan for super effective damage. Crunch and Earthquake provide optimal coverage alongside each other.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs give Drapion enough Speed to beat Timid Rotom, essentially allowing it to shut down any attempts to burn Drapion with Will-O-Wisp. The majority of the EVs are sent to HP in order to give Drapion more bulk to take hits from the opponent.</p>

<p>Since this set is not as threatening as the standard Swords Dance set, Drapion will struggle with muscling his way through bulky Ground-types such as Donphan, Steelix, and Rhyperior. The former two can be dealt with by Choice Band Dugtrio once they are weakened, allowing Drapion to sweep easier. Donphan can be effectively dealt with by constantly beating its HP down until it's low enough for Drapion to kill. Using Choice Band Scyther can be quite beneficial thanks to its Ground immunity and ability to lure and strip Donphan's HP with repeated U-turns.</p>


Awesome set, franks :)

I have tried both spreads before I wrote the set whistle -- beating base 80's was my initial spread. Its true that both EV spread have their own positives but the current spread listed focuses on beating bulky/offensive ish teams as supposed to stallish more defensive ones. I suppose the EV spread you gave me plays much better when playing defensive teams.

Looks very good, I'm going to try it out.

Two Minor nitpicks:

Taunt is extremely convenient for (convenient is a strange word to use here. I would suggest "Taunt is very effective on/useful for") this set as it allows Drapion to easily shut down status from common checks such as Registeel, Weezing, and Spiritomb.

Click to expand...

Using Choice Band Scyther can be quite beneficial thanks to its Ground immunity and ability to lure Donphan out and strip Donphan's its HP with repeated U-turns.

Click to expand...

<p> Since this set is not as threatening as the standard Swords Dance set, Drapion will struggle muscling his way through bulky Ground-types such as Donphan, Steelix, and Rhyperior. The former two (You mean the latter two? Because Steelix and Rhyperior are weak to Earthquake while Donphan isn't.) can be dealt with by Choice Band Dugtrio once they are weakened, allowing Drapion to sweep easier. Donphan can be effectively dealt with by constantly beating its HP down until its low enough for Drapion to kill. Using Choice Band Scyther can be quite beneficial thanks to its Ground immunity and ability to lure out Donphan and strip its HP with repeated U-turns.</p>[/QUOTE]

I don't like the Dugtrio mention just to take out Steelix and Rhyperior for two reasons. first, Dugtrio is only effective at taking those Pokemon out when they are significantly weakened, which means using them as a primary response on a team doesn't work at all. and if there is a separate primary switch-in, why not mention that? second, Jolly Life Orb Dugtrio barely does more damage to Steelix and Rhyperior than +2 0 EV Drapion, which means the marginal effectiveness gained by adding Dugtrio is really really tiny.

LO Dugtrio vs 252/0 Steelix: 47.5% - 55.9%
+2 Drapion vs 252/0 Steelix: 40.7% - 48%
LO Dugtrio vs 136/0 Rhyperior: 45.4% - 53.6%
+2 Drapion vs 136/0 Rhyperior: 38.8% - 45.9%

edit: and the gist of my argument was not "this is a good EV spread yo"; I think if you are going to use a bulky SD Drapion then you might as well go all the way and use a Drapion that is optimized to beat slower teams. it just feels like the current spread is a middle ground that can't withstand hits from walls despite being able to taunt them; its extra speed is also not as useful when compared to the all out swords dance set because it's too weak to kill things. I guess if you've tested both spreads and conclude the opposite it's just a difference of opinion then, though.

Beating Rotom is probably the most important thing for it to do. It will get burned or tricked otherwise.

Not to mention you can outspeed OHKO Moltres with Stealth Rock up before it destroys you with Fire Blast which will hurt regardless of the amount of SpD EVs you use. Same thing applies for Magmortar, Arcanine, Nidoking, and even things like Leafeon and Hitmonlee.

EDIT: And yea, Dugtrio....really franky lol...

I suppose I'll add more partners with this set since Dugtrio and Scyther were the only members I tested with this set. In theory, Substitute Torterra and Rhyperior can make excellent partners since they can enforce switch outs and Substitute will keep your offensive pace going.

And whistle, I have given it a mention but from experience, this makes an excellent "bulky-offense" killer as supposed to stall. The current spread you listed will be more effective against stall in theory, which is why I mentioned it in AC. In the end though, this version will have no Attack investment and it won't hurt stuff for substantial damage right away, its just a matter of what you decide to outpace. I personally think outpacing a bunch of Pokemon outweighs the ability to survive certain moves, which Drapion can still do with the Speed.

I second the notion that if you are going to run a defensive set, you should go all the way defensive, rather than running so much speed. It's not so much that the Speed isn't worth having, and more that after putting so much investment Speed in you'll probably be better off with the usual offensive set. It's true that Rotom will get you (only after realizing that you have low speed and getting in safely) but I think you're better off saving EV's and running, say, Flash Fire Arcanine, which helps greatly against Moltres, Toxicroak, and anything trying to Will-o-Wisp you.

Consider these numbers:

+2 LO Drapion effective Attack stat: 724

+2 bulky Drapion: 432
+4 bulky Drapion: 648
+6 bulky Drapion: 864

My point here is that this Drapion needs to take a lot more hits before it can start doing damage on a level with LO Drapion. If you're taking twice as many hits, for instance, you may not come out of most situations in any better condition than the LO set would. If you're devoting 252 HP EV's to Speed, I feel like it won't be bulky enough. On the other hand, if you put all the EV's towards defense (perhaps a few Speed points to Taunt Uxie), you might take hits well enough to justify the extra turns of setup.

Of course, if you have logs of this set kicking ass I'll be happy to shut up : D

I agree with Scoopapa and Whistle. I think the optimal spread is 252 HP / 214 SpD / 44 Spe Jolly for outspeeding Venusaur and other neutral base 80s (I've considered running more to outrun Toxicroak, but it's not worth it to me). Rotom doesn't commonly switch into/stay in on Drapion unless it's a last resort, anyway. I also would suggest slashing Protect with Earthquake. Protect's purpose is mainly for gaining Leftovers recovery. When not running it, I've found myself wishing for one or two turns of extra leftovers recovery (mainly if I'm trying to set up against Milotic). It also has a few other situational uses (PP stalling Close Combats, scouting). Having used both moves, I've found Protect to be as viable, if not more so, as Earthquake.

Eo's spread is probably what should be used then, because he's really the only one I've seen use Drapion to some success.

That with Protect and everything.

EDIT: Though I have never seen anyone else really use this set.

I tested that spread and never really found it as effective as you guys make it. However, i do see the point though and the general consensus wants a bulkier spread then I will make it main option. I just find the Speed so important to shut down several things.

locking b/c merged this into the drapion update with some relatively minor prose/structure changes