Team Delta: Strike Force

This is a team I'm actually starting to like; it's won me a few battles and uses some of my favorite Pokes. It has a pretty solid defensive core with a lot of resistances and bulky Pokemon, as well as good offensive capabilities with trappers, revenge killers, hard hitters and set-up Pokemon.


Gyarados, @Leftovers
Adamant; 212 HP, 36 Atk, 100 Def, 160 Spd
Waterfall, Stone Edge, Taunt, Dragon Dance

I chose Gyarados first because it is a great check to the three things I hate most: Scizor, Lucario and Infernape. This acts as a good lead with Taunt, Intimidate and plenty of bulk and resistances to scout the opponent's team. The EVs give me a good balance between power and bulk; I can outspeed base 100 Speed walls and Taunt them before they use Stealth Rock or Thunder Wave or any of that crap while still maintaining the defenses to abuse such key resistances. Gyarados makes a decent wall-breaker and an excellent late game sweeper, plus it's a great feeling when something tries to Roar you out. ;)

New:


Snorlax, @Choice Band
Adamant; 252 Atk, 252 SpDef, 4 HP
Return, Superpower, Pursuit, Crunch

I was looking around thinking, "What, besides Tyranitar, has great Attack and soaks up Calm Minders?". The word "dur?" came to mind, and "Snorlax" came shortly thereafter. Snorlax's massive Special Defense will stop nearly all Calm Minders, and I pack Crunch for moments of desperation when Pursuit is to obvious (although I'm not sure I'll keep it). Return for STAB, Superpower for coverage, and Pursuit because it's so kewl. Now I know this is no kind of revenge killer or scout, or even as good at trapping as Scizor, but it is a great compromise.


Latias, @Choice Scarf
Timid; 4 HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd
Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Thunderbolt, Surf

I've been seeing Choice Scarf Latiases on a lot of RMTs and I've been eager to try one. It's worked pretty well in the few battles this team has been in; it makes a great revenge killer to the threats whom Scizor cannot handle, namely Heatran. The main reason for Latias here is its ability to outspeed and OHKO Salamence and Gyarados after their first Dragon Dance, and having another counter to Infernape is always good in case Gyarados is too weak. In addition to revenge killing, Latias is probably the best thing around to lure in Steels, which leads me to the next guy.


Magnezone, @Leftovers
Timid; 252 SpAtk, 216 Spd, 40 HP
Thunderbolt, Magnet Rise, Hidden Power Fire, Substitute

This is the Steel era. In nearly all RMT threads there are at least two Steels, and with Magnezone, this team is ready to tackle them. Like I mentioned before, Latias will lure in all the baddies for this guy to trap and Thunderbolt to hell. Magnezone's thirteen resistances aren't too shabby, either, and the synergy between Magnezone and Gyarados is phenomenal. Magnezone is another one of my favorites to use, as well as a huge asset for ridding the field of Steels and pissing people off with the Magnet Rise + Substitute combination then hitting with the strongest Thunderbolt in the game. I chose Hidden Power Fire due to the importance of OHKOing a trapped Scizor before it Superpowers me; no, I didn't forget about Gyarados, I just like to instantly remove Scizor so I don't need to worry about it Pursuiting Latias.


Gliscor, @Leftovers
Impish; 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spd
Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Aerial Ace, Roost

I put Gliscor in as a Stealth Rocker and sure fire Heracross counter. My goal is to get him to use Stealth Rock as early as possible so I can go about attacking and not have to worry about Focus Sashes. He is also a good check to Machamp, Tyranitar, Breloom, Choice Banded Scizor and most Lucario and, once again, provides a gamut of resistances and can fare well against the occasional Steel whom Magnezone cannot handle (I.E. AgiliGross). Gliscor is always a good addition to any team, especially one that focuses on bulky offense and needs a Stealth Rocker.

New:

Jirachi, @Leftovers
Calm; 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def
Psychic, Calm Mind, Wish, Protect

This guy will replace Blissey. He'll double as a special wall and setup. I choose a Calm Mind set because without Blissey and Toxic, Rotom will have its way with this team, unless I setup on it, and then an opposing Magnezone's plans will go straight down the tubes. Psychic is questionable as my only offense, but I chose it for its convenient OHKO on Gengar and being only resisted once by Magnezone. This is an awkward set, but it might be half of the solution.


If you have any advice at all, please, don't hesitate to comment. This is a very fun team and I want to stick with it for a while, and any input is greatly appreciated. These weaknesses are a thorn in my side, really, so let me know if you have any solutions.

Thank you all for reading.

Well, after a quick look at your team, I can see that your team is hurt a lot by an Infernape, after Latias has been taken out. Infernape OHKO's your Gliscor with HP Ice which has became a lot more popular recently. Additionally, Blissey and Scizor are also OHKO'd by Infernape. To make things worse - If you find someone who uses a Mamoswine as a partner to Infernape (me for instance) your Latias will be Destroyed by a banded S.T.A.B Priority Ice Shard. To remedy this a Suicune or Vaporeon is a good option.

Sorry for the fast rate but it is late so...yeah...

Gyarados handles Infernape and Mamoswine well. Life Orb Grass Knot does about 160, where Waterfall easily OHKOes Infernape. Mamoswine's Stone Edge won't do much to Gyarados after Intimidate, where Waterfall will OHKO or damn close.

Yeah, but what if Gyrados comes off second best? And lets face it - that could happen quite a lot

I think its against the rules to make rates where you say "If X falls, Y will sweep".

Scizor doesn't need Spd EVs as he is so slow that those EVs won't help much. You won't be outrunning much with those as most Pokes are either slower or invest enough EVs to beat 252 Spe ones, sometimes unintentionally. Might as well, put them into HP. Adamant 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe being the standard set.

Gliscor, on the other hand, may want 216 Spd EVs. Then again, with Ice Punch on Lucario on the down low, maybe what you're doing is a smart idea...

Solid team. I like it. I wouldn't want to make too many changes to this team because it works so well as it is. Firstly, consider changing your lead to Gliscor, and possibly changing Gliscor's EVs slightly so it hits either 236, 240 or 246 Speed. This is so you can work against those Breloom much easier. But in addition to this, it could prove useful that you change Aerial Ace to Ice Fang. It not only hits Breloom, but also physical Salamence which seems to be a pain in the neck for this team -- especially if you're facing those accompanied by opposing Magnezone to remove your own Scizor. To be honest, Aerial Ace isn't doing much but 'checking' Heracross (and Breloom, who is hit by Ice Fang anyway) which isn't even a big threat to the team, and still gets dealt with -- albeit slower than usual.

Regarding your inability to handle Calm Minders that evade Blissey's Toxic, I would definitely suggest changing Scizor for a Specially Defensive Metagross. The reason for this is because your current Scizor just doesn't have the bulk needed to check these threats, whereas Metagross can deal with Raikou and even Jirachi with Earthquake. Furthermore, Metagross can also work as a good trapper, though not as good as Scizor as it doesn't have U-turn, of course. Metagross' Earthquake also acts as a good deterrent to Magnezone, so that's a plus too! If you do find Latias getting checked by opposing Tyranitar far too easily, then you could opt to use Shuca Berry on this Metagross to take Salamence's Earthquake, and then kill it with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch; the same goes for opposing Gyarados, but you would instead opt for ThunderPunch > Bullet Punch. The general set I have in mind is:

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 80 Atk / 188 SpD
Adamant or Careful Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit

Another thing, make Scizor more bulky with a spread of 248 HP / 176 Attack / 84 Special Defense. When you encounter such rain teams, you will survive Ludicolo's Surf without Stealth Rock and kill it with U-Turn. That's what I've experienced, though.

Other than that, a great-looking team.

You don't acutally need a sp.wall and scizor + latias + magnezone can take on all the sp.atkers that trouble you.

So I would swap blissey for a DD tyranitar, who works well with gyrados.

Secondly Gliscor would make a more effective lead on this team with a set like:
Gliscor @ leftovers
Jolly
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Stealth rock
- Roost / U-turn / Toxic

and an oposing Pursuit+ salamence/gyrados combo destroys you, so I would change scizor to an anti metagame metagross

Metagross @ Shucca berry
112 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 132 Spe
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Agility/ice punch/pusuit/bullet punch
- Thunder punch

The ev spread is for agility, as this gives you a back up sweeper for late game as well, but ice punch OHKO's gliscor and will not miss, unlike meteor mash against mence. If your not using agility use an ev spread of 252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe. for more bulk as without agility the speed is not needed. Shucca lets you take DD boosted EQ's from mence and gyrados and after SR you OHKO them with meteor mash/thunder punch respectively.

I'm going to make Scizor a bulky Metagross, mostly for the reasons that Vashta and George182 stated. Gliscor has a standard wall EV spread because Gyarados is my main Lucario counter. With the extra Speed, I lose enough bulk to be OHKOed by Salamence's +1 Outrage with a bit of prior damage, so I essentially lose the reason to carry Ice Fang. Also, Breloom will Seed Bomb for supereffective damage each time I Roost, and Ice Fang won't OHKO. And, like Aeron said, most Lucario aren't Ice Punching now anyway.

Scizor + Latias + Magnezone still leaves me wide open to Gengar (with HP Fire) and Rotom, and Blissey closes that gap. Wish provides miraculous support for this team. I don't like in adding Tyranitar because I have a bit of a pet peeve about using things weak to Stealth Rock alongside Tyranitar without a spinner.

Anyway, thanks for the input. You guys gave some good suggestions that I will certainly capitalize on.

Here's the Metagross I have in mind:

@Shuca Berry
Adamant; 204 HP, 80 Atk, 224 SpDef
Meteor Mash, Pursuit, Earthquake, Thunderpunch

This is inferior to Scizor for revenge killing and trapping, but I need something for Calm Minders that Blissey can't handle. I'm questioning Pursuit a bit because this Metagross lacks the 591 Attack that Scizor has, and as such, Pursuit won't do much to fleeing Pokemon who aren't weak to it. I usually fit in a Pursuiter somewhere in all of my teams, so I've actually considered Tyranitar to fill this role. The problem there is that Rapid Spin becomes a necessity.

Any suggestions?

You have an amazing type coverage so no need to switch any of the pokemon around. I was going to say you should lead with Gliscor, but then I realized that george and I had the exact same idea and moveset. No comment on your Scizor, although you could get rid of superpower and run swords dance with a life orb for more power (careful you dont kill yourself). Draco Meter and Dragon Pulse on your latias? why not run Outrage? outrage has 30 more power than Dragon pulse and 20 less then draco meter and doesnt kill your SpA. You could always use a chesto berry and just outrage sweep. or maybe choice specs to ensure a few KOs before having to switch. T-bolt, Surf, and grass knot (to kill Gyrados) for your other moves ensures maxiumum coverage. Choice Scarf isn't necessary has its very fast with a base 110 speed. You have a solid Magnazone and I have no comments on it. with magnazone running HP fire, there's no need to run flamethrower on Blissey. I would run Wish, protect, Seismic Throw (to do damage) and Heal Bell (for support). I'm new to the Smogon Community and the threats on Shoddy Battle and what to expect and all of the "personal experience" stuff, but I hope I helped in any way at all.
Best of Luck- that one kid

...
Anyway, I just had a think. :o


Jirachi, @Leftovers
Calm; 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def
Psychic, Calm Mind, Wish, Protect

This guy will replace Blissey. He'll double as a special wall and setup. I choose a Calm Mind set because without Blissey and Toxic, Rotom will have its way with this team, unless I setup on it, and then an opposing Magnezone's plans will go straight down the tubes. Psychic is questionable as my only offense, but I chose it for its convenient OHKO on Gengar and being only resisted once by Magnezone. This is an awkward set, but it might be half of the solution.


Snorlax, @Choice Band
Adamant; 252 Atk, 252 SpDef, 4 HP
Return, Earthquake, Pursuit, Selfdestruct

The other half of the solution. I was looking around thinking, "What, besides Tyranitar, has great Attack and soaks up Calm Minders?". The word "dur?" came to mind, and "Snorlax" came shortly thereafter. Snorlax's massive Special Defense will stop nearly all Calm Minders, and I pack Selfdestruct for moments of desperation (although I'm not sure I'll keep it). Return for STAB, Earthquake for coverage, and Pursuit because it's so kewl. Now I know this is no kind of revenge killer or scout, or even as good at trapping as Scizor, but it is a great compromise.

I think it's pretty good now. One last look.
Lead, Physical Set-Up, Wall Breaker
Trapper, Choice Bander, Special Sponge
Scarfed Revenge Killer, Steel Bait
Steel Killer
Physical Wall, Stealth Rocker
Special Set-Up, Special Wall, Wisher

I like it. Still, any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

You should edit the changes into the main thread. As people new to reading your RMT won't realise the changes you have made.

Secondly, you no longer have a need for magnezone and once latias had been pursuited, DD mence and DD gyrados destroy you. Considering the top 2 pokemon in useage (scizor and tyranitar) commonly carry pursuit, and the 3rd is salamence, I would say this is a huge threat.

However by making Jirachi a scarf Jirachi with the 3 elemental punches + iron head, you can revenge kill scizor, lucario, salamence, flygon, dragonite, gyrados, tyranitar etc. all who would threaten your team.

Then make latias a DD salamence and you have an amasing team for helping DD mence sweep. Magnezone traps the steels who worry him. Gliscor sets up SR, Gyrados lures in scarfed latias, scarf gengar and scarf starmie etc. while snorlax takes them out and draws in physical walls. Who magnezone can destroy. Jirachi handles problematic threats. Bassically your team is built for DD mence and with a couple of simple changes, this team could be very effective.

Otherwise there is little point in leading with gyrados unless scouting for counters.
anti metagame metagross could be used over Jirachi but he only has one shucca berry so can only handle 1 threat per team. His advanatage is that with agility he turns some of them into set up bait.

As scarf raichi, gyrados and mence handle lucario, then gliscor can become a stall breaker set with
Taunt / toxic / roost / Stealth rock
This set is capable of single handedly taking on stall teams that may give you some trouble

Btw pursuit and self destruct can't be on the same set, so I would change self destruct to fire punch/return/crunch/ice punch as pursuit is needed for trapping those revenge killers.

EDIT: I just tested out the team with the suggestions I just made, snorlax with pursuit + gyrados lead is pro, magnezone also traps scarf jirachi's. Salamence is amazing at finishing off, and Jirachi is a great revenge killer / last resort.

2 weaknesses physical walls, handled somewhat by gliscor, and stealth rock handled somewhat by taunt gyrados. Due to revenge killers and steels pokes being handled by magnezone + snorlax. I have just made this edit, that if you do choose a salamence I would go for the mix dancer set, for it's ability to OHKO many physical walls, and pro long locking into outrage:
Salamence @ life orb
Rash nature
80 atk, 252 sp.atk, 176 speed
- Dragon dance
- Dracco meteor
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Dracco meteor OHKO's hippowdon, bulky gyrados, zapdos, rotom, suicune, and others etc. including the apparantly 100% counter to dd mence, porygon2, although it's no longer a 100% counter as it's OHKO by dracco meteor. Rash nature is needed for the OHKO's on these walls, but if your confident you can wear them down a little bit before hand, then use naive for more speed or naughty for more attack.
Other beinifts include not locking you into outrage, it can only be used once due to the sp.atk drop but you only need dracco meteor once in a sweep. I suggest you test the set before you knock

Also a lum berry lets you beat sleep leads and beat machamp, as machamp can't OHKO you stone edge after an intimidate and has lum means that dynamic punch does not confuse you. Lum also means you can dragon dance up infront of sleep leads, lum cures there sleep, then taunt them as they will try to sleep you again, then you can set up some more.

You made some good points there, I'll hax to fix those problems. By the way, I'm having some trouble coming up with a replacement for Selfdestruct on Snorlax. I've considered the elemental punches, but Snorlax won't really be standing up to any of the things that are weak to them (Salamence, Gyarados, Scizor, etc.). I've considered Focus Punch for things Snorlax scares away, but resist Pursuit, I.E. Heatran. Still, a well predicted elemental punch could make for a great KO as something switches in.

Yea I had that problem as well, I used pursuit, return, superpower, crunch
superpower is very powerful move and it hits magnet rise magnezone as well as OHKOing heatran. Also return, crunch and superpower gives perfect type coverage. But the whole CB set is very flexible.

I'm really liking lead gyrados, really effective at scouting early game, and some people let him get in a few too many dragon dances and cause themselves a bit of trouble.

Ah, I forgot about Crunch. Maybe I'll use that set for Snorlax.

What EV spread are you using on the Gyarados? I like the one I have but I've considered giving it more Speed.

I used this spread
156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Speed

There is no point in any more speed ev's than that really. 156 HP EVs lets Gyarados survive two Life Orb Heatran's Fire Blasts after Stealth Rock. 96 Defense EVs allows Gyarados to avoid a 2HKO by Quick Attack by Choice Band Scizor. 184 EVs in Speed means Gyarados will outspeed Choice Scarf Tyranitar and +Speed base 115s after a Dragon Dance. The rest are put into Attack.

A jolly nature would allow you to outspeed scarf latias after 2 dragon dances, but you can just switch to snorlax and pursuit it.