Venusaur (Special Life Orb)

This set isn't currently on site and the last post on the Venusaur (Update) analysis was over a month ago (and the set's write up wasn't very good either to be honest). So I'll post it here and hopefully we can get it on site soon since I have no doubt in my mind that this is one of the most popular sets in the metagame.

[SET]
name: Special Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes advantage of the high damage output from Venusaur’s dual STAB, while retaining the ability to take hits. It abuses the ever-present bulky Water-types, such as Milotic and Blastoise, who can barely scratch Venusaur. Chansey is not a major threat to this set either, since Sleep Powder stops her from recovering lost HP. This allows Venusaur to hit Chansey, put her to sleep before she can use Wish or Softboiled, and switch to a physical attacker that threatens Chansey. This process can be repeated every time Chansey switches in until she is in Venusaur’s KO range. This strategy only works if Venusaur doesn’t put a different Pokemon to sleep, however. Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm are great STAB attacks with different functions: Leaf Storm is Venusaur's most powerful attack and will maim most Pokemon who do not resist Grass, but will drop Venusaur’s Special Attack by two stages. Sludge Bomb has no drawbacks but slightly less power, and hits almost every Pokemon who resists Leaf Storm for at least neutral damage (Registeel and Drapion being the common exceptions). Sleep Powder allows Venusaur to incapacitate potential checks and counters. Finally, Synthesis allows Venusaur to heal off damage taken from weaker attacks like Milotic’s Ice Beam or Azumarill’s Waterfall.</p>

<p>A Timid nature and maximized offensive stats are recommended because they give Venusaur the best chance to sweep. Even though Venusaur has no defensive EVs, he can still easily take Surf, Hidden Power, and even Ice Beam from Blastoise and Milotic thanks to his high Special Defense.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur has the option of running Hidden Power to hit specific counters if needed. For example, Hidden Power Ground helps against Registeel. This can be helpful as the opponent will not expect it and may sacrifice their main counter to another one of your Pokemon, such as Swellow. Hidden Power Rock can be used to hit Moltres for an easy OHKO as well. This set can also run a bulkier EV spread of 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe with a Modest nature, which outpaces Milotic and Torterra. With this spread, Venusaur can hit harder and take hits better, but is slower than several other prominent offensive Pokemon.</p>

<p>Venusaur has trouble with one Pokemon in particular, Registeel. Registeel not only has a sky high Special Defense stat, but it also resists Leaf Storm and is immune to Sludge Bomb. Chansey and Drapion can also be a bit of a pain if Sleep Clause is already in effect. This makes Rhyperior an excellent teammate for Venusaur. Rhyperior switches into the aforementioned Pokemon with impunity and can deal monstrous damage to the opponent with a Choice Band boosted Stone Edge, Earthquake, or Megahorn.</p>

<p>Venusaur is also threatened by fast Pokemon who can switch in on a resisted attack. Moltres is able to switch into a 4x resisted Leaf Storm and OHKO Venusaur with Fire Blast. Swellow can also switch in on Synthesis (and Sleep Powder if he is already statused) and quickly KO with Brave Bird or Facade. Azumarill and Regirock help Venusaur deal with both of these Pokemon; Azumarill can switch into Moltres and revenge kill him with Aqua Jet, while Regirock walls Swellow and sets up Stealth Rock to hinder Moltres. It can also check Moltres in a pinch.</p>

I feel like there should be some sort of "also you could use random stupid Hidden Powers to surprise stupid shit like Moltres and Altaria with the appropriate magic spell" reference, since this is a set where it could definitely be worth it to sneak a coverage move on, but you know what you're doing with this set.

isnt this a little similar to the roserade set already on-site? what advantages does venusaur have...

Die whistle, and I'll mention that Synre.

Can a mod move this?

as requested on IRC.

Heysup said:

[SET]
name: Special Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set focuses on Venusaur's ability to take hits moderately well while dishing out damage. This set aims to abuses the ever-present bulky Water-types such as Milotic and Blastoise who can barely scratch Venusaur. Chansey is not a very big threat to this set either due to Sleep Powder stopping recovery. Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm are great STAB attacks with different functions. Leaf Storm is Venusaur's main attack that will inflict a large amount of damage to anything that doesn't resist it and have a high Special Defense stat. Sludge Bomb hits essentially everything that resists Leaf Storm for at least neutral; Registeel being the exception. Sleep Powder, besides stopping Chansey from recovering, allows Venusaur to remove its would-be checks and counters who switch in, such as Moltres. Synthesis is important for Venusaur to be able to take bulky Water-type attacks.</p>

<p>A Timid nature and maximized offensive stats are recommended because they give Venusaur the best chance to sweep. Even though Venusaur has no defensive EVs, it can still easily take Surfs, Hidden Power, and even Ice Beam from Blastoise and Milotic.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur has the option of running Hidden Power to hit specific counters if needed. For example, Hidden Power Ground helps against Pokemon such as Steelix, Arcanine, and Registeel. This can be helpful as the opponent will not except it and likely sacrifice their main counter to another one of your Pokemon, such as Swellow. Hidden Power Rock can be used to hit Moltres for an easy OHKO as well.</p>

<p>Venusaur has trouble with one Pokemon in particular: Registeel. Registeel not only has a sky high Special Defense stat, but it also resists Leaf Storm and is immune to Sludge Bomb. Chansey and Drapion can also be a bit of a pain if Sleep Clause is already in effect. This makes Rhyperior an excellent teammate for Venusaur. Rhyperior switches into these three Pokemon with impunity and can deal monstrous hits to the opponent with a Choice Band boosted Stone Edge, Earthquake, or Megahorn.</p>

<p>Venusaur is also threatened by fast Pokemon that can switch in on a resisted attack. Moltres is able to switch into a 4x resisted Leaf Storm and OHKO Venusaur with a Life Orb boosted Fire Blast. Swellow can also switch in on anything but Sludge Bomb and quickly KO with Brave Bird or Facade. Azumarill and Regirock help Venusaur with both of these Pokemon. Azumarill can switch into Moltres and revenge kill it with Aqua Jet, while Regirock walls Swellow and sets up Stealth Rock to help with Moltres. It can also check Moltres in a pinch.</p>

Click to expand...

Quick proofread.

blue - add/change
red - deletions
(green) - comments

[SET]
name: Special Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set focuses on Venusaur's ability to take hits moderately well while dishing out damage in return. This set abuses the ever-present bulky Water-types such as Milotic and Blastoise who can barely scratch Venusaur. Chansey is not a very big threat to this set either due to Sleep Powder stopping recovery. Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm are great STAB attacks with different functions. Leaf Storm is Venusaur's main attack that will inflict a large amount of damage to anything that doesn't resist it or and have a high Special Defense stat. Sludge Bomb hits essentially everything that resists Leaf Storm for at least neutral, Registeel being the exception (most Poison-types resist both too, guess Drapion is the only one who wouldn't be extremely badly hurt by it though). Sleep Powder, besides stopping Chansey from recovering, allows Venusaur to remove its would-be checks and counters who switch in such as Moltres. Synthesis is important for Venusaur to be able to take attacks from bulky Water-types attacks.</p>

<p>A Timid nature and maximized offensive stats are recommended because they give Venusaur the best chance to sweep. Even though Venusaur has no defensive EVs, it can still easily take Surf, Hidden Power, and even Ice Beam from Blastoise and Milotic.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur has the option of running Hidden Power to hit specific counters if needed. For example, Hidden Power Ground helps against Pokemon such as Steelix, Arcanine, and Registeel. This can be helpful as the opponent will not expect it and likely sacrifice their main counter to another one of your Pokemon, such as Swellow. Hidden Power Rock can be used to hit Moltres for an easy OHKO as well.</p>

<p>Venusaur has trouble with one Pokemon in particular, Registeel. Registeel not only has a sky high Special Defense stat, it also resists Leaf Storm and is immune to Sludge Bomb. Chansey and Drapion can also be a bit of a pain if Sleep Clause is already in effect. This makes Rhyperior an excellent teammate for Venusaur. Rhyperior switches into these three Pokemon with impunity and can deal monstrous hits to the opponent with a Choice Band boosted Stone Edge, Earthquake, and or Megahorn.</p>

<p>Venusaur is also threatened by fast Pokemon that who can switch in on a resisted attack. Moltres is able to switch into a 4x resisted Leaf Storm and OHKO Venusaur with a Life Orb boosted Fire Blast. Swellow can also switch in on anything but Sludge Bomb and quickly KO with Brave Bird or Facade. Azumarill and Regirock help Venusaur with both of these Pokemon. Azumarill can switch into Moltres and revenge kill it with Aqua Jet, and while Regirock walls Swellow and sets up Stealth Rock to help with Moltres. It can also check Moltres in a pinch.</p>

Thanks.

[SET]
name: Special Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set focuses on Venusaur's ability to take hits moderately well while dishing out damage in return. This set abuses the ever-present bulky Water-types such as Milotic and Blastoise who can barely scratch Venusaur. Chansey is not a very big threat to this set either due to Sleep Powder stopping recovery. Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm are great STAB attacks with different functions: Leaf Storm is Venusaur's main attack that will inflict a large amount of damage to anyone who doesn't resist it or has a high Special Defense stat, while Sludge Bomb hits almost everyone who resists Leaf Storm for at least neutral, Registeel and Drapion being the exceptions. Sleep Powder, besides stopping Chansey from recovering, allows Venusaur to remove its would-be checks and counters who switch in such as Moltres. Synthesis is important for Venusaur to be able to take attacks from bulky Water-types.</p>

<p>A Timid nature and maximized offensive stats are recommended because they give Venusaur the best chance to sweep. Even though Venusaur has no defensive EVs, it can still easily take Surf, Hidden Power, and even Ice Beam from Blastoise and Milotic thanks to its high Special Defense.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur has the option of running Hidden Power to hit specific counters if needed. For example, Hidden Power Ground helps against Pokemon such as Steelix, Arcanine, and Registeel. This can be helpful as the opponent will not expect it and likely sacrifice their main counter to another one of your Pokemon, such as Swellow. Hidden Power Rock can be used to hit Moltres for an easy OHKO as well.</p>

<p>Venusaur has trouble with one Pokemon in particular, Registeel. Registeel not only has a sky high Special Defense stat, it also resists Leaf Storm and is immune to Sludge Bomb. Chansey and Drapion can also be a bit of a pain if Sleep Clause is already in effect. This makes Rhyperior an excellent teammate for Venusaur. Rhyperior switches into the aforementioned Pokemon with impunity and can deal monstrous hits to the opponent with a Choice Band boosted Stone Edge, Earthquake, or Megahorn.</p>

<p>Venusaur is also threatened by fast Pokemon who can switch in on a resisted attack. Moltres is able to switch into a 4x resisted Leaf Storm and OHKO Venusaur with a Life Orb boosted Fire Blast. Swellow can also switch in on anything but Sludge Bomb and quickly KO with Brave Bird or Facade. Azumarill and Regirock help Venusaur with both of these Pokemon; Azumarill can switch into Moltres and revenge kill it with Aqua Jet, while Regirock walls Swellow and sets up Stealth Rock to help with Moltres. It can also check Moltres in a pinch.</p>


I <333 this set, nice write-up as well ^_^

I feel you're understating Chansey in the first paragraph. Sure, you can sleep it, but it still laughs at your attacks. Sludge Bomb is a 5HKO at very best, and Leaf Storm does about 31% max. Not to mention sleep only lasts for so long.

I think Energy Ball should get a mention, either slashed in or in additional options over Leaf Storm. In spite of the reduced power, it gives Venusaur a bit more staying power, which can be benificial when cleaning up lategame.

Metric said:

I feel you're understating Chansey in the first paragraph. Sure, you can sleep it, but it still laughs at your attacks. Sludge Bomb is a 5HKO at very best, and Leaf Storm does about 31% max. Not to mention sleep only lasts for so long.

Click to expand...

You hit it with a 31% Leaf Storm, Sleep it, and switch out. If you do this one more time, you can hit it with Sludge Bomb and Leaf storm for the KO.

Metric said:

I think Energy Ball should get a mention, either slashed in or in additional options over Leaf Storm. In spite of the reduced power, it gives Venusaur a bit more staying power, which can be benificial when cleaning up lategame.

Click to expand...

Energy Ball is less effective even after two Turns of Leaf Storm, so there needs to be very impressive tangible benefits in order for it to be mentioned imo.

I used this set with an alternative EV spread once and it worked pretty well. 232 HP, 232 SpA, 44 Spe, Modest. Basically, Speed to comfortably outpace Milotic (and neutral base 85's, though Milotic is the main concern), which is evenly deducted from full investments in HP and SpA. It has better staying power, and won't fall to things meant to take out offensive Venusaur. It's much happier switching in on Milotic's Ice Beam, and doesn't risk as much from a super effective Hidden Power from Sceptile. Also Modest is a plus, though I'm not aware of any specific benefits. Possibly worth a quick mention somewhere in the additional comments.

Yea I'll do that, I remember even when using Roserade that the bulky set was good too.

we don't need three grammar checks within an hour of each other two hours after the analysis was posted... http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=101&a=133 (disregard the gp stuff but the idea is there)

sub/cm mismagius can set up since leaf storm drops spa and sludge bomb is resisted; mentioning that + a check/counter or two that fit well on offensive teams is probably a good idea.

I feel like you are definitely underestimating chansey (even if you aren't personally underestimating her, I think the analysis presents a view that is too idealized). assuming the best case scenario over two switch-ins (stealth rock up + leaf storm -> sleep -> switch out -> sludge bomb -> leaf storm), chansey takes:

SR: -12.5%
LS: -[26.8% - 31.8%]
Leftovers: +6.25%
[Sleep]
Leftovers: +6.25%
SR: -12.5%
Sludge Bomb: -[17.3% - 20.6%]
Leftovers: +6.25%
LS: -[26.8% - 31.8%]
[Leftovers recovery pending; damage check first]

results in 77.15% - 90.45%, which "can" be a KO with a bit of residual damage. but this depends on a 60.75% chance for all your attacks to hit (if even one misses, you go back to step one), requires venusaur to spam leaf storm on the switch (most venusaur spam sludge bomb instead), and assumes that sleep clause is not activated.

i'm not saying chansey has it easy against venusaur by any means, but chansey's definitely not a pushover for this set. i think mentioning the damage total (not a KO even with SR) and including some suggestions for how you can get the extra damage (such as pursuit) would be fine. also i've heard the whole "sleep it and kill it the next time" argument a ton so i know how it works, but someone reading this might not -- consider explaining it somewhere.

tbh idk about the hidden power suggestion. the marginal benefit it so small i honestly cannot imagine running either hp ground or hp rock over any of the moves on this set. sludge bomb already ohkos moltres after stealth rock and does a shitton to arcanine as well (in fact it is only 5 "bp" less powerful against arcanine), while hidden power ground is only a 5hko (26.4% - 31.3%; factor in sr and 2x leftovers per attack unless you wanna get twaved) on registeel. yes, "drapion", but are specially bulky restalk drapion really common enough that you want to drop a move? i don't think so. maybe mention hidden power in optional changes for venusaur, but not in additional comments.

fuk roserade

I'll expand a bit on the Chansey bit.

Hidden Power works if you want to lure and take out Registeel so I think it's worth a mention at the very least.

fuk roserade

EDIT: After some testing, Scoopapa, I found that the spread 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe is far better than the one you suggested. The amount of times I was slower than Torterra completely ruined any possibility of me liking the set, however once I adjusted the speed I was quite impressed the HP helps a lot.

I still say the entire Hidden Power section is very very dumb because Hidden Power Ground is a 5HKO on Registeel and Sludge Bomb destroys Fire Pokemon already.

[SET]
name: Special Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes advantage of the high damage output from Venusaur’s dual STAB, while retaining the ability to take hits. It abuses the ever-present bulky Water-types, such as Milotic and Blastoise, who can barely scratch Venusaur. Chansey is not a major threat to this set either, since Sleep Powder stops her from recovering lost HP. This allows Venusaur to hit Chansey, put her to sleep before she can use Wish or Softboiled, and switch to a physical attacker that threatens Chansey. This process can be repeated every time Chansey switches in until sheis in Venusaur’s KO range. This strategy only works if Venusaur doesn’t put a different Pokemon to sleep, however. Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm are great STAB attacks with different functions: Leaf Storm is Venusaur's most powerful attack and will maim most Pokemon who do not resist Grass, but will drop Venusaur’s Special Attack by two stages. Sludge Bomb has no drawbacks but slightly less power, and hits almost everyone who resists Leaf Storm for at least neutral damage (Registeel and Drapion being the exceptions). Sleep Powder allows Venusaur to incapacitate potential checks and counters. Finally, Synthesis allows Venusaur to heal off damage taken from weaker attacks like Milotic’s Ice Beam or Azumarill’s Waterfall.</p>

<p>A Timid nature and maximized offensive stats are recommended because they give Venusaur the best chance to sweep. Even though Venusaur has no defensive EVs, he can still easily take Surf, Hidden Power, and even Ice Beam from Blastoise and Milotic thanks to his high Special Defense.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur has the option of running Hidden Power to hit specific counters if needed. For example, Hidden Power Ground helps against Registeel. This can be helpful as the opponent will not expect it and may sacrifice their main counter to another one of your Pokemon, such as Swellow. Hidden Power Rock can be used to hit Moltres for an easy OHKO as well. This set can also run a bulkier EV spread of 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe with a Modest nature, which outpaces Milotic and Torterra. With this spread, Venusaur can hit harder and take hits better, but is slower than several other prominent offensive Pokemon.</p>

<p>Venusaur has trouble with one Pokemon in particular, Registeel. Registeel not only has a sky high Special Defense stat, but it also resists Leaf Storm and is immune to Sludge Bomb. Chansey and Drapion can also be a bit of a pain if Sleep Clause is already in effect. This makes Rhyperior an excellent teammate for Venusaur. Rhyperior switches into the aforementioned Pokemon with impunity and can deal monstrous damage to the opponent with a Choice Band boosted Stone Edge, Earthquake, or Megahorn.</p>

<p>Venusaur is also threatened by fast Pokemon who can switch in on a resisted attack. Moltres is able to switch into a 4x resisted Leaf Storm and OHKO Venusaur with Fire Blast. Swellow can also switch in on Synthesis (and Sleep Powder if he is already statused) and quickly KO with Brave Bird or Facade. Azumarill and Regirock help Venusaur fight both of these Pokemon; Azumarill can switch into Moltres and revenge kill him with Aqua Jet, while Regirock walls Swellow and sets up Stealth Rock to hinder Moltres. It can also check Moltres in a pinch.</p>

whistle sry i use a black and white only computer. added those changes in.

Uploading.