Battle Realms Team: The Rebirth

Euphonos

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Battle Realms Team: The Rebirth [OU RMT]

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The New, Improved, and Reborn.
Peaked at the CRE of 1417 in the OU Metagame.



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I. Introduction

Overview of Battle Realms

Battle Realms follows the basic formula for many real-time strategy games. All of its factions have similar buildings with similar uses and workers. However, unlike in most real-time strategy games, the peasant worker unit is not just used for resource gathering and construction, but also for training into military units. Thus, military buildings in Battle Realms are not used for making units, but for transforming and upgrading them. Peasants gather the two resources in the game: rice and water. They also round up horses, which can be used to enhance military units in the game and can be outfitted as pack horses for peasants. Only one type of builder unit is required.

Peasants are the only units the player can produce outright. Most of the buildings available are training structures where peasants are trained into a plethora of other units. All the factions start off with 3 basic central training structures, which produce units along different paths of warfare, such as melee or ranged combat. In most cases, units can be trained at up to 3 structures to produce higher tiers of infantry.

Another difference in unit generation is that peasants are produced automatically, at no cost. However, the rate at which new peasants are produced is inversely proportional to the current population of the player's army.

Certain buildings can teach special techniques, or Battle Gears (commonly abbreviated to BGs), to units to improve their combat ability for a certain resource cost. This can allow units to defeat higher tier units they would normally struggle with or be defeated by. BGs also allow the player to further define the role a unit will play in a combat situation, such as damage absorption, building destruction, or reconnaissance.

One of the key elements of Battle Realms is the Yin/Yang system. Each army obtains points of Yin or Yang when in combat, depending on their moral alliance to the forces of light or darkness. The Battle Realms hero units, or Zen Masters, require Yin/Yang to be summoned and to improve their damage. Yin and Yang are also used at structures in the faction's base for military upgrades. The rate of Yin/Yang growth depends on the military strength and flair of the army and how far they are from the main base.

There are four available clans in Battle Realms, and each have a different philosophy towards life and combat. The Dragon clan favours honourable and valourous combat, while its offshoot, the Serpent clan, uses stealth, trickery and brutality to further its goals. The Lotus clan is an ancient group of sorcerers that delves deeply into the corrupting aspects of magic. The Wolf clan is a race of formerly enslaved miners. Their clan members live basic, healthy lives.


Here's the link where I get this overview.

Welcome to the new RMT thread of mine. As said from the title, this team has overhauled a lot since the metagame of Generation IV has changed very drastically. My past team became sensational several months ago; it centralizes on a slow attacker screaming for a Speed boost to sweep effectively. This time, it has changed to a whole new level of offense.

Similar to my recently-made team, "How to Train Your Dragon", it centralizes more on offense over defense, but it has great synergy and teamwork that secures a lot of victories.

[Half of the Pokemon in the past team has been the same in the team today, but their movesets overhauled.]

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II. History of the Battle Realms Team

The history of the Battle Realms team are rooted here. If you're excited about the overhauled team, you're free to ignore this.

A. Team Building Process

machamp.jpg

A Slow Sweeper
Machamp, in my past team, is said to be the core of the team. His base 130 Attack and ability No Guard is very scary, and DynamicPunch becomes accurate and guarantees confusion upon entry.

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Speed Boost, Coming Up!
Since Machamp's letdown is his mediocre 55 base Speed, and he doesn't have anything to boost its own Speed, a Baton Passer that has the Agility boost is welcome. I chose Gliscor here because of his great Defensive stats that can pull off an Agility almost successfully.

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vaporeoni.jpg

Defensive: A Bulky Water
Gliscor's weaknesses, Water and Ice, compensate his ability to execute Agility well. In that case, a Bulky Water is welcome here, and Vaporeon is the only one suited in this team because her bulk allows it to stand to some attacks, and her move, Wish, that gives healing not only to her, but also to other injured Pokemon.

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azelf.jpg

The Lead of the Team
Opening the game with an unusual move makes things annoying, so to speak. Azelf served the team well, as if he can open the game with Trick, and letting Gliscor set up easily.

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Now Hiring: A Mixed Sweeper
A mixed sweeper is welcome here, since Machamp is skilled with his only-physical prowess. Tyranitar has said to be it, because he can make a lot of things easier for the team by decimating much of its counters. He is also welcome to have its Speed boosted, thanks to Gliscor.

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magnezone.jpg

You're Trapped!
Steel-types are a bit problematic here, especially Scizor, who's been dominant in usage for years. Magnezone fitted in this team because of the ability to trap-and-kill Steel Pokemon [bar Heatran] with ease, due to its base 130 Special Attack and its ability, Magnet Pull.

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B. The Team in its Perusal

This is my team--of course, in the past.
azelf.jpg
gliscor.jpg
tyranitar.jpg
magnezone.jpg
machamp.jpg
vaporeoni.jpg


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C. The Team in Detail

Note: No descriptions to this one, since it is just the history of the team. Should you request for some descriptions in this past team, I will, for a couple of days.

azelf.jpg

Vetkin [Azelf] @ Choice Scarf
Naive Nature [+Speed, -Special Defense]
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 36 Attack / 252 Special Attack / 220 Speed
...• Trick •...
...• Stealth Rock •...
...• Psychic •...
...• U-turn •...

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gliscor.jpg

Issyl [Gliscor] @ Yache Berry
Impish Nature [+Defense, -Special Attack]
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EV's: 80 HP / 176 Defense / 252 Speed
...• Earthquake •...
...• Taunt •...
...• Agility •...
...• Baton Pass •...

---

tyranitar.jpg

Shale Lord [Tyranitar] @ Expert Belt
Hasty Nature [+Speed, -Defense]
Ability: Sand Stream
EV's: 116 Attack / 144 Special Attack / 248 Speed
...• Dragon Dance •...
...• Crunch •...
...• Stone Edge •...
...• Ice Beam •...

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magnezone.jpg

Zymeth [Magnezone] @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature [+Speed, -Attack]
Ability: Magnet Pull
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
...• Thunderbolt •...
...• Hidden Power [Fire] •...
...• Flash Cannon •...
...• Signal Beam •...

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machamp.jpg

Otomo [Machamp] @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature [+Attack, -Special Attack]
Ability: No Guard
EV's: 128 HP / 128 Attack / 252 Speed
...• Bulk Up •...
...• DynamicPunch •...
...• Stone Edge •...
...• Ice Punch •...

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Gaihla [Vaporeon] @ Leftovers
Bold Nature [+Defense, -Attack]
Ability: Water Absorb
EV's: 180 HP / 252 Defense / 68 Special Attack / 8 Speed
...• Yawn •...
...• Wish •...
...• Surf •...
...• Ice Beam •...

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III. The Team Building Process

Let's start from square one. Actually, I don't have any core of the team; they work for each other.

froslass.jpg

A Lead that Inspires
A lead coming from my best friend has inspired me much: Froslass. The reason why I choose Froslass as a lead right now because the scarcity of her appearance makes her a great surprise to most Trainers. Spikes, Froslass's sole entry hazard, enhances the overall performance of the other Pokemon in the team that converts 3HKO's to 2HKO's and 2HKO's to OHKO's on non-Flying or non-Levitating Pokemon.

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magnezone.jpg

Can't Pull off some Weight?
Most Steel-types are considered to be leads in the metagame, most especially Jirachi, one of the potent threats against the Lead Froslass with Iron Head. Magnezone solves the problem here, as if hoping the 40% chance of setting up, and decimating it with ease.

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gyarados.png

The Sweeping Serpent
It'll be too redundant to my newly-made team if I use Salamence here.

Here, Gyarados is my new Dragon Dance Sweeper of the team, and not surprisingly, he has a good defensive synergy with Magnezone in terms of type coverage.

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tyranitar.jpg

The Creature of Shale
In this perspective, Fire and Rock weaknesses are exploited. Tyranitar fits in this team because of various reasons: it can counter the weaknesses that the first three have exploited a lot, and it can summon sandstorm that Rain and Hail put in pain in their faces.

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gliscor.jpg

The Shale's Perfect Match
Perfect match? Gliscor, that is.

Gliscor, from being a Baton Passer at first, becomes a Stall Breaker that sets up another entry hazard to put in, and paired with Tyranitar, he can annoy some opponents with Sand Veil that gives a little evasion boost to set up an opportunity before they launch an attack against Gliscor.

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starmiek.png

The Serpent's Helper
Do you know that Stealth Rock chips off 25% of Gyarados's health? This is where a Rapid Spinner takes place. Starmie's one of the best Rapid Spinners around; it helps Gyarados free from Stealth Rocks and checks some of the most prominent threats in the metagame.

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Here goes the type chart, if you want to see the value of my team in terms of weaknesses and resistances.

weaknessresistancemods.png


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Bored reading, again? Sorry for that. Don't worry.

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IV. The Team in its Perusal

Now, the team has transformed into a whole new level. Without further ado, here comes my team!

froslass.jpg
gliscor.jpg
tyranitar.jpg
magnezone.jpg
starmiek.png
gyarados.png


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V. The Team in its Fullest Detail
--Changes are inscribed in BOLD.--

"I will freeze my foes solid before they even starve to death!"
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yvaine.jpg
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Yvaine [Froslass] @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature [+Speed, -Attack]
Ability: Snow Cloak
EV's: 80 HP / 96 Defense / 80 Special Attack / 252 Speed
...• Trick •...
...• Thunder Wave •...
...• Spikes •...
...• Ice Beam •...

As Zymeth's right-hand, Yvaine controlled the Shaleback region with iron hand. She was among the few whom close with the leader of the Lotus Clan. Even so, some unpleasant rumors say that she got her recent position due to her relation with him. Nobody ever lived to tell the truth between them. Unlike the warlocks of the Forbidden Path, Yvaine specializes in frost magic. Her mere presence is enough to chill the bones.

Her ability to trick her Choice Scarf against several leads and setting up Spikes makes Froslass an awesome lead to see in OU. The scarcity of her appearance makes it a great surprise to most trainers, as if majority of the leads Froslass encountered are some of the most prominent leads in the metagame.

Not only Trick and Spikes are the cruces of the set here, Thunder Wave is the other move that makes things a bit more interesting than the standard OU Scarf Lead set. Destiny Bond's absent in that set due to hard predictions that may cost only her life instead of her life and the opponent's life.

In terms of EV's here, maximum Speed and Timid Nature is emphasized to outpace even an unboosted Ninjask to deceive a lot of opponents, majority of them are leads. 80 HP and 96 Defense EV's means that she has a slim chance to survive Machamp's Payback, and survive Metagross's Bullet Punch all the time.

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"Hey, Mister! Want to see me do a trick?"
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issyl.jpg
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Issyl [Gliscor] @ Leftovers
Jolly Nature [+Speed, -Special Attack]
Ability: Sand Veil
EV's: 216 HP / 40 Defense / 252 Speed
...• Stealth Rock •...
...• Taunt •...
...• Roost •...
...• Earthquake •...


Visitors to the court of the Lotus Clan will nervously wonder why a twelve-year-old child sits on their high council, clutching an oversized hourglass. They don't feel any better when they learn that this is Lord Issyl, Dean of the College of Time, one of the most powerful wizards in the world. When they realize that eyes hundreds of years old peer from the face of a nasty little boy, nausea is a common reaction.

Lord Issyl ages slowly backwards, a condition resulting from an accident 70 years ago. Despite this misfortune, his body is free from the rampant decay that plagues many who follow the Path. Time flows… interestingly… around him, and he controls it to some degree. Wounds he takes in battle knit with unnatural swiftness.

This is why I nicknamed my Gliscor as Issyl: he is originally the "Haste Booster" of the team. However, he is no more the Haste Booster, but now he is the Stall Breaker.

Stealth Rock, along with Froslass's Spikes, enhances overall performances of the other four Pokemon [that happens to be all sweepers] that converts from 2HKO's to OHKO's, and it is beneficial against Flying and Levitating Pokemon.

Since the standard EV's for Gliscor is 252 HP / 40 Defense / 216 Speed, I reversed the HP and Speed EV's, to make Taunt more effective against foe Gliscors as well. Others will be self-explanatory.

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"..."
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shalelord.jpg
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Shale Lord [Tyranitar] @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature [+Speed, -Special Attack]
Ability: Sand Stream
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
...• Pursuit •...
...• Crunch •...
...• Superpower •...
...• Stone Edge •...


The Shale Lord is a symbol of the Wolf Clan's enslavement, a failed magical experiment, a lonely outcast, a military asset. No one knows his real name, but he was once a Wolf Clan slave, chosen by Lord Soban as an experimental subject in his attempts to breed a better slave worker. He escaped captivity and roamed the wilderness for years - a strange stone man, faceless, voiceless, alone. When the Wolf rebelled he returned to fight at their sides, and became a hero.

In battle there is no more terrifying opponent. Naturally armored and hugely strong, he fights with his macelike fists. No one hates the Lotus Clan more, and his rage seems to increase his strength even has he battles.


The one that summons sandstorm, can revenge kill reliably [with his Choice Scarf at hand], and can decimate Trick users, Tyranitar's the best bet for this affair.

I would rather use Superpower over Earthquake in this set because I have no Fighting move that can decimate Blissey in the long run, and the only Pokemon that has the trump card against Blissey is Magnezone's Explosion and Gyarados's Dragon Danced Waterfall. Otherwise, it is a self-explanatory set, since Scarf Tyranitar becomes the standard set in Smogon.

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"The Warlocks of the Forbidden Path have conquered death itself, but I am still their master."
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zymeth.jpg
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Zymeth [Magnezone] @ Leftovers
Modest Nature [+Special Attack, -Attack]
Ability: Magnet Pull
EV's: 40 Attack / 252 Special Attack / 216 Speed
...• Substitute •...
...• Thunderbolt •...
...• Hidden Power [Grass] •...
...• Explosion / Metal Sound •...


For over 500 years, Lord Zymeth has ruled the Lotus Clan as the undisputed first among equals. In his dealings with other clans, Zymeth also uses his great longevity to powerful effect, planning schemes that span generations of Wolf and Serpent clansmen.

No one could rule the Lotus without being a wizard as well as a statesman, and Zymeth is no exception. Like most of the warlock elite he is a specialist, and his sphere is weather, the sizzling crackle of lightning or the relentless force of a summer storm.


Magnezone is the only Pokemon in my team that garners the most resistances, making him a great switch-in to most attacks.

Magnezone will show up once Metagross was being Tricked by Froslass and launches an attack, and once Jirachi wants to let Froslass die with Iron Head. He's the one responsible for taking charge against Steel Pokemon that the team doesn't like, fortunately.

Blissey is Magnezone's archrival, and the archrival to all Special Attackers, then Explosion becomes his trump card to destroy Blissey with prior damage.

I recognize this move that can actually punish switches: Metal Sound. This move can lower the opponent's Special Defense harshly, most especially to those who are Steel Pokemon because of Zymeth's trapping prowess.

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"Even the Warlocks who claim to know death, cringe from my fury."
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longtooth.png
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Longtooth [Starmie] @ Life Orb
Timid Nature [+Speed, -Attack]
Ability: Natural Cure
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
...• Hydro Pump •...
...• Thunderbolt •...
...• Psychic •...
...• Rapid Spin •...


Even as a slave-child, Longtooth was famous for his athleticism - leaping between rocks and swimming through the treacherous underground waterways, he astonished his masters. Meanwhile he was winning a secret fame as a boxer and wrestler in the underground fighting pits and quarries. When the uprising came, those abilities were matched by a terrifying hatred and impressive generalship. His deeds of that night have placed him next in line for clan leadership.

In battle Longtooth carries a unique weapon, a heavy bladed boomerang he has learned to hurl with astonishing accuracy. Uneven battlegrounds give him a special advantage, as his athletic ability grants him a mobility others lack.

I named Starmie as Longtooth, because of the reference to his boomerang.

Anyways, Starmie is considered to be the helper of the sweeping serpent. It checks the most prominent threats in the metagame with its coverage moves, like the ones in my recently-made team, How to Train Your Dragon.
Everything is self-explanatory here, actually, so I can't explain it more.

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"Only strength - and the willingness to use it - can preserve us."
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shinja.jpg
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Shinja [Gyarados] @ Leftovers
Jolly Nature [+Speed, -Special Attack]
Ability: Intimidate
EV's: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
...• Dragon Dance •...
...• Waterfall •...
...• Stone Edge •...
...• Bounce •...


Lord Oja's death left a power vacuum and no one more eager to fill it than Lord Shinja. Were it not for the pierce personal loyalty of his rival Otomo inspires, surely he would now rule the entire land with his brand of pragmatic justice and ruthless efficiency. No one loves Lord Shinja, but no one can deny that he keeps order and has helped preserve the Serpent Clan in difficult times.

In person Shinja is an undeniable force, charismatic, coldly intelligent and utterly without fear. No one has ever crossed him and lived to tell of it, beyond a babbled confession in a chamber deep beneath Serpentholm. He despises talk of the old Dragon clan, and considers honor to be a sadly obsolete concept. In all things he is a realist, and magical attacks have been known to quail and dissipate under his skeptical gaze and indomitable will.


If Salamence belongs to the team "How to Train Your Dragon" as Toothless, Gyarados here belongs to this new team as Shinja.

Anyways, Gyarados is as devastating as Salamence as a great Dragon Dance sweeper, coupled with much coverage moves: Waterfall, Stone Edge, and Bounce. This serpent happens to be the grave threat to most teams when Froslass and Gliscor have accomplished their task perfectly, and under a Dragon Dance it can decimate majority of the OU Pokemon in the metagame, except Rotom [any variant], Scarf Flygon [with ThunderPunch or Stone Edge, or even Outrage that deals >50% when not factoring Intimidate], Empoleon, and Suicune.

Well, the bread and butter of the set here is Dragon Dance, and with Jolly Nature at hand, he'll outpace even Jolteon and his friends sitting at the benchmark of Base 130 Speed.

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V. The Troublesome Pokemon

These Pokemon can serve as a potent threat once they executed their roles perfectly. The only ones that poses a threat here are the following:

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Calm Mind Attackers
-
Please bear with me, since no thumbnail is available on Suicune at the moment.-

Suicune and Jirachi are the most potent attackers if they use Calm Mind. The only way to stop this is Magnezone and Gliscor, respectively, but when they pump out those Calm Minds, everything will be wasted.

A temporary solution to this problem is Magnezone's Metal Sound, that can lower the Special Defense--harshly. Calm Mind and Metal Sound together makes +1 Special Attack and -1 Special Defense, making it a bit vulnerable to Special Attacks, but I don't know if anyone of you can approve that Metal Sound is more appropriate than Explosion in some cases.

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flygon.png

Scarf Flygon

In the past team that Flygon is no longer a threat thanks to Weavile, here it becomes. Scarf Flygon, when played late-game, can become a potent threat here, when Froslass is down, since she is the only one that can thrash Flygon around with her Super-Effective Ice Beam. Gliscor can have its damage output a bit laughable through his Roost [when it Outrages] to fully recover its health, barring a lucky Critical Hit.

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shaymin.png

Choice [Scarf / Specs] Shaymin

Shaymin has also arrived as one of the most prominent threats in the team. Choice Specs deals a lot of power, and 2HKO'ing even Magnezone [my only Pokemon with a Grass resistance] without the Special Defense drop from Shaymin's Seed Flare. Choice Scarf, can also outrun my Starmie and hit it with Seed Flare, with the consequence of weakening Seed Flare's power. However, Magnezone still is a very risky switch-in, since Shaymin's Seed Flare has a 40% chance of lowering its Special Defense.

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This is it, the Battle Realms Team: The New, Improved, and Reborn. Fire away your rates, Smogonites! =D
 
This post is just going to be a placeholder so to speak because I have to go.

Quick nitpicks: Starmie wants Ice Beam instead of Psychic since being able to OHKO dragons is nice and Psychic is a pretty poor move/type these days.

I'm not sure about that Gyarados set to be honest...

Suicune and Jirachi are the most potent attackers if they use Calm Mind. The only way to stop this is Magnezone and Gliscor, respectively,

Gliscor can't stop Suicune. Since Surf/Ice Beam OHKO's it.

Like I said I'll come back later today and give a more detailed rate, but at the moment I have to go.
 
Dragon Dance Salamence causes havoc for this team, or even MixMence if Starmie is down, and Froslass is usually dead by that stage anyway.

I dislike that Gyarados set, the bulky sets work much better, and allow you to take on and check several potent physical attacks, such as Scizor and Lucario, while still being able to Dragon Dance [except on +1 SD-Intimidate Luke in which you would have to KO straight off the bat].

This Set

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant - Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe
~ Dragon Dance
~ Bounce / Taunt
~ Waterfall
~ Stone Edge / Bounce

Bounce gives an extra turn of leftovers recovery, as well as having 30% chance for paralysis. If you use it early on, and the opponent switches to Starmie/fast check, they will find themselves facing a 120 BP 30% paralysis move, of which they can do nothing or switch out, potentially giving another chance for a Dragon Dance, it also helps beat a few of those pesky grass pokemon who like to Toxic/Seed stall.

I personally dislike Super Power on Tyranitar, it gives your opponent an EASY switch in afterwards, and if you change this for Earthquake, you can also defeat SubCM Jirachi better, depending on what moves Jirachi is running.

On Starmie, you cannot use Rapid Spin + Life Orb, thats going to be hurting you, A LOT. You can choose either the Leftovers Thunderbolt/Surf/Recover/Rapid Spin set or the offensive Life Orb HydroPump/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Recover, although Surf and Psychic are also options you may want to consider.

I don't think Flygon should be that big an issue with Gliscor and Gyarados there, sure it can U-Turn stall you, but to counter this further you could possibly create your own Choice Scarf U-Turner so that your opponent doesn't get the free turn he wants.
 
Hi,

I'm agreeing that your Starmie moveset should be changed. Why not use Thunderbolt, Surf, Rapid Spin, Recover. It provides good coverage with Surf + Thunderbolt whilst having the utility of rapid spin. Recover to make up for the LO damage. Tis a good set.

I then think you should move Gliscor to lead as is generally can deal with common leads alot more effectively than Froslass. You can keep the set as it is.

In fact, I don't think Froslass is doing much for your team at all that Spiker Roserade couldn't do, and has alot more opportunities to speak than Froslass thanks to her decent special defense. Adding Roserade also enables you to play around Shaymin and CM Cune more easily. Swap Froslass for Roserade outside the lead position.

The set I think benefits you most is:
Roserade@leftovers
252HP/136SpDef/120Spe
Calm | Natural Cure
Spikes
Leaf Storm
HP: Fire/ HP: Ground (Both can benefit your team but I'd lean towards fire for better coverage and ability to take out Forry/Scizor/Shaymin)
Synthesis


Thats all from me, perhaps somebody else would like to reccomend a replacement for Magnezone as it seems pretty unimportant as it is.

EDIT: Try the Jirachi suggestion below, seems sound.
 
Thats all from me, perhaps somebody else would like to reccomend a replacement for Magnezone as it seems pretty unimportant as it is.

True, Gyarados checks Scizor greatly, and Magnezone's biggest role in OU is stopping Scizor, but Gyarados does a great job at this anyway, Choice Scarfed Jirachi with Thunder Punch / Ice Punch / U-Turn and Iron Head could work well to much more easily revenge Salamence/Gyarados after +1
 
Hi,


In fact, I don't think Froslass is doing much for your team at all that Spiker Roserade couldn't do, and has alot more opportunities to speak than Froslass thanks to her decent special defense. Adding Roserade also enables you to play around Shaymin and CM Cune more easily. Swap Froslass for Roserade outside the lead position.

The set I think benefits you most is:
Roserade@leftovers
252HP/136SpDef/120Spe
Calm | Natural Cure
Spikes
Leaf Storm
HP: Fire/ HP: Ground (Both can benefit your team but I'd lean towards fire for better coverage and ability to take out Forry/Scizor/Shaymin)
Synthesis

Unfortuatly Frostlass has one HUGE advantage over Roserade which you missed. Frostlass is a spinbloccker (ghost type) which means that if you go for a Roserade lead/spiker than you spend 3 turns setting up spikes and nothing to protect them from being spun away. ince you run spikes on this team and oviously want to utalise them I suggest a bulky Frostlass over your current one. This frtlass has a (unreliable but effective) form or recovery and can take hits much better. I would also really recomend Rapid Spin on Starmie as Sealth Rocks will be extrey detrimental to Frostlass even with recovery.

Have a Nice Day!
 
Unfortuatly Frostlass has one HUGE advantage over Roserade which you missed. Frostlass is a spinbloccker (ghost type) which means that if you go for a Roserade lead/spiker than you spend 3 turns setting up spikes and nothing to protect them from being spun away. ince you run spikes on this team and oviously want to utalise them I suggest a bulky Frostlass over your current one. This frtlass has a (unreliable but effective) form or recovery and can take hits much better. I would also really recomend Rapid Spin on Starmie as Sealth Rocks will be extrey detrimental to Frostlass even with recovery.

Have a Nice Day!

LO Starmie Surf vs that Froslass 75.1% - 88.7% OHKO 100% of the time with rocks. It is not a defensive Froslass, nor is this UU where spinners hit for considerably less than Starmie. So Froslass is spinblocking for the whole of like...1 turn.

You do raise an important point of no spinblocker though. However, I do not think one is needed due to the fact this team seems like it can keep up the pressure vs common spinblockers and Forry may well be lured in by Roserade and then OHKO by HP:Fire. Starmie is spinning no matter what you use as your spiker.

Basically, for this team Roserade is just much better on the whole.
 
One thing's for sure--with all those suggestions, Anti-Lead Machamp becomes an issue, if I depleted Psychic...
 
hmm well according to the move usage states, Forrtress is used 6.9 % of the time and has Rapid spin 80% of the time

Starmie is used 13.5% of the time and has rapid spin over 50% of the time (its its forth common move)

Together rapid spin is used 20.4% of the time which is the exact usage statistic of Tyranitar
So you are saying "its fine, waste those 3 turns spiking up after all Rapid spin is not common at all after all, I don't see tyranitar very often.

actually standard bulky Frostlass (set I recomended) takes 65.89% - 77.84% from LO starmie surf (non Modest) which means that their is a 20.51% chance to OHKO.
Sure Frostlass is not the best spin blocker by any means but if Starmie is really so much of an issue then a few SpD EV's fix that.

We many have reached an impass however a Spn blocker IS needed unless you are willing to lose all those spikes

Have a Nice Day!

Sorry If I came accross as a little bit aggressive here
 
Since opening the game in a very unusual manner can suspect annoyance to most trainers. So I might keep Froslass in the field, or replace it to Roserade. If I switch to Roserade, then I will replace Magnezone with Scarf Jirachi. I don't know if this works, but...
 
again as my post stated, if you replace Frostlass (which is fine) you need another Ghost type to spin block
 
hmm well according to the move usage states, Forrtress is used 6.9 % of the time and has Rapid spin 80% of the time

Starmie is used 13.5% of the time and has rapid spin over 50% of the time (its its forth common move)

Together rapid spin is used 20.4% of the time which is the exact usage statistic ov Tyranitar and rapid spin is also more common than Heatran.

So you are saying "its fine, waste those 3 turns spiking up after all Rapid spin is not common at all???

actually standard bulky Frostlass (set I recomended) takes 65.89% - 77.84% from LO starmie surf (non Modest) which means that their is a 20.51% chance to OHKO.
Sure Frostlass is not the best spin blocker by any means but if Starmie is really so much of an issue then a few SpD EV's fix that.

We many have reached an impass however a Spn blocker IS needed unless you are willing to lose all those spikes

Have a Nice Day!

1) You have majorly miscalculated how much rapid spin is used. You can't just add all the % together as they are DIFFERENT statistics. One is usage OF a pokemon, another is usage of a move ON a pokemon. Go back and work it out correctly, and you will say that no, rapid spin is not that common. Think about it buddy, you really think rapid spin is more common than Heatran? ;) If you do, then you need to ladder more.

2) I didn't even say rapid spin wasn't common in the first place, quote me where I said that if you would be so kind.

3) If you go back and read my post more carefully you will see that I said, and I quote, 'LO Starmie Surf vs that Froslass 75.1% - 88.7%'. There has been no mention of a Froslass previously other than the Froslass in the OP, so I was obviously talking about that one...

4) Defensive Froslass just isn't good in OU, to save a whole load of words...stuff hits too hard in OU for any significant defensive invest to be worth it. EVEN if I was talking about defensive Froslass when I made my damage calc...that is still a 2HKO AND you are outsped so you still aren't spinblocking for more than 1 turn effectively. SpDef EVs won't change that.

5) What is with the 'have a nice day'? Have a crush on Hipmonlee or something?

Summary: No, a spinblocker is not needed because A)this team can keep the pressure up on spinners, and lure in and dispose of Forry B)spinning isn't all that common C)A spinblocker can't fit comfortably on this team without major changes in the lineup. (I.E.Magnezone could be replaced with Rotom-H as their roles are most similar but then a dragon resist needs to come in somewhere else)
Froslass isn't spinblocking as it currently is for more than a turn, so you aren't missing out on some great spinblocking abilities if you replace it. Just because on paper a spinblocker is being replaced, doesn't mean that you are going to have an easier time getting spun on. Your whole post is basically full of this 'on paper' stuff, whereas the reality is very different.



@Clarion - If you change Froslass for the Roserade, make sure you consider the Gliscor -> lead change.
 
Hm... Let me think of that, Sushi and ginganinja. Thanks for the rates--I appreciated it.

Edit: I have this Lead Roserade, but this might work...

Gaihla [Roserade] @ Focus Sash / Leftovers
Timid Nature [+Speed, -Attack]
Ability: Natural Cure
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
> GrassWhistle
> Spikes
> Leaf Storm
> Hidden Power [Fire]

I'm not sure about this one, since the Roserade lead I have before is a SubSeeding Spiker. XD
 
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Oh, is this for wi-fi?

I wouldn't put something like that in lead , grasswhistle is just too unreliable. I'd try to get the Lead Gliscor I suggested as it would lure in water types allowing you to begin spiking with Roserade, the subseed spiker could work I guess if you don't have other options but only outside of lead. Gliscor lead >: gogo.
 
Actually...

Sleep Powder is illegal with Spikes, and I needed a sleep move, then I will use GrassWhistle instead. If you want me to use Stun Spore, then so be it... XD

EDIT: It's not for Wi-Fi, for Pete's sake. However, it does come from one of my teams that Roserade is utilized as a lead.
 
Actually...

Sleep Powder is illegal with Spikes, and I needed a sleep move, then I will use GrassWhistle instead. If you want me to use Stun Spore, then so be it... XD

EDIT: It's not for Wi-Fi, for Pete's sake. However, it does come from one of my teams that Roserade is utilized as a lead.

I suggested Synthesis, not Sleep Powder as the 4th move, and it is generally the superior option for the Spiker. You don't 'need' a sleeper.
 
You have majorly miscalculated how much rapid spin is used. You can't just add all the % together as they are DIFFERENT statistics. One is usage OF a pokemon, another is usage of a move ON a pokemon. Go back and work it out correctly, and you will say that no, rapid spin is not that common. Think about it buddy, you really think rapid spin is more common than Heatran? ;) If you do, then you need to ladder more.

Perhapes I did not explain well enough, concerning the usage of 2 OU pokemon which commonly carry rapid spin (over 50% on starmie and over 80% on Forry) together makes it extremely likely that may teams carry a rapid spinner. I am not saying that every Starmie user will carry rapid spin however there is a rather large chance that one will do so.


3) If you go back and read my post more carefully you will see that I said, and I quote, 'LO Starmie Surf vs that Froslass 75.1% - 88.7%'. There has been no mention of a Froslass previously other than the Froslass in the OP, so I was obviously talking about that one...

I did read your post, you quoted ME when I was refering to the new Frostlass set suggestion so it was logical to conclude that the calcs were concerning my set

4) Defensive Froslass just isn't good in OU, to save a whole load of words...stuff hits too hard in OU for any significant defensive invest to be worth it. EVEN if I was talking about defensive Froslass when I made my damage calc...that is still a 2HKO AND you are outsped so you still aren't spinblocking for more than 1 turn effectively. SpDef EVs won't change that.

True enough but you are missing the main point of the arguemnt, ie the issue that if you are running a large amount of entry hazards than a spin blocker is needed

5) What is with the 'have a nice day'? Have a crush on Hipmonlee or something?

Personal much?
Also I say Have a Nice Day simply because its a nice thing to end with and its a nice thing to say, got a problem when people say nice things?
Not sure what this has to do with the creditability of my argument but all the same to answer your question, I am very close friends with Hipmonlee and am taking him to the prom with me this friday, care to join?

Summary: No, a spinblocker is not needed because A)this team can keep the pressure up on spinners, and lure in and dispose of Forry.

Starmie still spins with ease.

B)spinning isn't all that common

Stated that it was common above

C)A spinblocker can't fit comfortably on this team without major changes in the lineup.

Can go over magnetzone since its not really much of a dragon resist since Salamence is still going to cause large issues with the team and magnetzone sure is hell a'nt gonna stop him since you have nothing to realy lure the outage (except Gyarados but Salamence is not staying in on gyarados anyway since intimadate is knocking him down one attack stage.

Froslass isn't spinblocking as it currently is for more than a turn, so you aren't missing out on some great spinblocking abilities if you replace it.

Correct, so instead of nitpicking at my argument by stating that frostlass is weak, state a strong spin blocker instead which can help the team.

Just because on paper a spinblocker is being replaced, doesn't mean that you are going to have an easier time getting spun on.

Yes it does because with no spin blocker means that you cannot block rapid spin therefore, its easier to spin on a team with no spin blocker than a team with a spin blocker.

Well clearly this arguement is not really helping the rater, to conlcude then, By all means get a better spiker, all I ask is that since you are spending 4 turns setting up hazards (and intending to use/abuse them) slide a spin blocer on the team to prevent all your hard work being destryed in one turn.

Anyway if Sushi has anymore personal comments to make feel free to PM them to me and we can discuss this further.

Have a Nice Day!
 
Just a small note. Psychic is horrible on Starmie. I would suggest Grass Knot, Recover, or Ice Beam over Psychic. It's just not good, and with all the Choice Scarf Tyranitar lurking around, you can't afford to be using Psychic-type attacks on something so Pursuit-weak.
 
Agreeing with Shiny Pidgey here that Ice Beam can benfit your Starmie better than Psychic since DD Mence is a very large issue to your team.
You could also maybe run a more bulkier spread on Frostlass and perhapes run Leftovers over Choice scarf

Have a Nice Day!
 
@ Shiny Pidgey: True, but Anti-Lead-Champs might be a big issue here when I deplete Psychic in. That's my trump card against him.

@ Ginganinja: As what I've said, opening with something unusual will suspect annoyance to trainers. I might run a 248 HP / 8 Defense / 252 Speed Bulky Froslass though...

EDIT: Since Choice Scarf Jirachi will take Magnezone's place, then Tyranitar will become the Babiri Dragon Dancer. [Updates will come after several tests.]
 
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