Giratina (Lead)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/giratina

taking this over from twash, so all credits for this set go to him. i'm simply writing it up

[SET]

name: Lead
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Aura Sphere
item: Haban Berry
nature: Hasty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although Giratina is usually seen as a nearly impenetrable physical wall or sturdy Calm Minder, this set allows it to fulfill the role of an excellent anti-lead. The combination of powerful attacks, strong priority move, and Haban Berry makes Giratina one of the most reliable ways of defeating common leads such as Deoxys-S, Deoxys-A, Groudon, Mew, Rayquaza, Giratina-O, and Tyranitar. Draco Meteor followed by Shadow Sneak is a guaranteed KO on 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-S, limiting it to a maximum of one layer of entry hazards. Deoxys-A is defeated by the same combination of attacks, while Groudon and Mew will struggle to do any meaningful damage as Giratina chips away at their health with its attacks. Will-O-Wisp is immensely useful for burning Groudon, but Hidden Power Fire is also an option to defeat Forretress and Scizor provided that rain isn't present. Unlike Giratina-O, lead Giratina has the ability to defeat Rayquaza, and by extension, Giratina-O leads, thanks to Haban Berry. Finally, Aura Sphere 2HKOes 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar, and gives Giratina a reliable way of damaging Dialga and Heatran. Due to Giratina's ability to outright defeat common leads, it is an excellent fit on just about any Ubers team.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Despite its role as anti-lead, this Giratina also has a great deal of late-game potential. If Haban Berry isn't used up against your opponent's lead, it can be extremely useful in a pinch later on. For instance, Giratina takes less than 50% from Timid Lustrous Orb Palkia's Spacial Rend thanks to Haban Berry, allowing it to easily OHKO back with Draco Meteor. Shadow Sneak makes Giratina a great revenge killer, hitting many speedy threats like Mewtwo and Latios for super effective damage. Despite a Hasty nature, Giratina still possesses excellent bulk, and thank to Will-O-Wisp, it can still play the part of a physical wall if needed during the later stages of a match.</p>

<p>Most bulky leads that are not hit super effectively by Giratina's attacks will be problematic. Kyogre is probably the most threatening of them all, as it possesses the bulk to take repeated Draco Meteors and will easily defeat Giratina with Ice Beam. Barring Hidden Power Fire, Forretress doesn't take much from anything Giratina can throw at, Will-O-Wisp included, allowing it to comfortably set up Spikes against Giratina. Darkrai is also very threatening, as it can either choose to put Giratina to sleep with Dark Void or deal huge damage with Dark Pulse. Although almost never seen as a lead, Blissey fears none of Giratina's attacks, and can wither Giratina's health down since Giratina has no form of recovery. Pairing Giratina with a Choice Scarf Palkia gives it a reliable counter for Kyogre, as well as a way of OHKOing Forretress and Darkrai. Palkia also appreciates Giratina's ability to reduce the number of entry hazards that Deoxys-S sets up, as Spikes can quickly wear Palkia down. A mono-attacking Kyogre with Calm Mind will not only force Forretress out, but can absorb Darkrai's Dark Void while being able to set up against Blissey and defeat her. Kyogre also has the advantage of synergizing well with Giratina. Speaking of synergy, Scizor covers Giratina's weaknesses and vice-versa, capably sponging any Dragon-type attack that Giratina can't handle if it has consumed its Haban Berry.</p>

twash said:

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I really can't see how this is better than the standard Giratina-O lead apart from being able to hold Haban Berry and better bulk (But less offensive power).

shrang said:

I really can't see how this is better than the standard Giratina-O lead apart from being able to hold Haban Berry and better bulk (But less offensive power).

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That's the whole point. It beats other Giratina-O (can't hold Haban) and Rayquaza with ease instead of risk, also handling the same stuff anyway. It can then be used throughout the game anyway with its raw Speed.

I am wondering weather HP: Fire could go over Will o Wisp because it would provide a way to beat Forretress and stop SR and Spikes stacking.

id also support hp fire but slashed behind will o wisp which has use lategame and for groudon who you probably outspeed, but scizor/forry are way too common to just ignore.

Seems interesting twash.

I'm not sure if its really better than Giratina-O though; I'll give this set a test tomorrow.

Tested. Not as strong as Giratina-O and can't take on Kyogre as reliably, but its Speed, Haban Berry, and great mid-game use give it good enough advantages over Giratina-O to make it worthwhile. This lead was actually pretty fun to use. And of course, beating MixQuaza and Giratina-O leads is always awesome. Being able to hold Haban Berry does wonders for its bulk. It IS weaker offensively, but Draco Meteor still hits like a ton of bricks.

Mention CM sweepers as teammates as crippling your foe's physical attackers makes setting up a lot easier. CroOgre works particularly well since it can sponge Ice moves and fight off Darkrai. Also slash in HP Fire to beat up Forry/Scizor.

Make these add ons and:

Interesting lead, however, this lead does seem to have little trouble against Darkrai, Kyogre, and Dialga leads. I'd mention how to beat them, as Fireburn, having cm sweepers, especially CroOgre do help against Darkrai. I'd also mention Scizor, especially if the enemy chooses to put Giratina-A to sleep right off the bat, which would be the obvious play for most players, although I nasty plotted right off the bat, knowing Fireburn would switch.

For Kyogre leads, mentioning Palkia will help immensely, as it's powerful thunders will easily scare Kyogre away, and boosts a neutrality to ice, which Giratina-A wishes it had. Dialga can be handled by Heatran, as it resists draco meteor, and can even gain a flash fire boost from flamethrower.

I also for the slash of Hp fire.

I've tested this set and found it very useful especially against later palkia and latias switchins. However, I question the usefulness of will-o-wisp and that dragon claw, HP fire or thunder would be more useful. However, due to giratina's reliance on all stats, it is hard to find a suitable IV spread and I'm still on a lookout for that.

i can attest to this sets viability having played it. tbh, i think it might be better than giratina-o as a lead which is among my favorite leads in ubers. nice set twash, cool that your posting it

I've been thinking about Giratina lead for a period of time, but I was thinking of something else completely.

For one, I think that the ability to hold an item should be capitalized fully, as this lets Giratina hold Lum to stop Darkrai leads that would otherwise use Dark Void. You could even go for a defensive approach with Lum Berry and Thunder Wave. What I'm saying is that this certain approach is definitely not the only one, and there are many other things that could be done to make Giratina beat other leads as well.

Also, I find that thunder is more useful on giratina due to the fact that it covers kyogre which is more valued than tyranitar.

i would also consider mentioning earth power in OO seeing that it still 2hkos dialga leads while hitting outside of the Lead position Heatran for 4x damage and other steels like Jirachi and Metagross for 2x

Hasn't been touched for a while, and I think it's pretty good (you didn't test this exact same set against me though - you used earth power x_____x)

tripe said:

For Kyogre leads, mentioning Palkia will help immensely, as it's powerful thunders will easily scare Kyogre away, and boosts a neutrality to ice, which Giratina-A wishes it had.

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I know it's a month late response, but I feel that it's worth mentioning...

Lead Kyogres (not ScarfOgres) run Thunder Wave to cripple the lead or the incoming pokemon. Thus, unless you've found out that the Kyogre is Scarfed, I wouldn't suggest switching in Palkia, but rather, a status absorber that can easily take on any Kyogre. Bulk Up Dialga is a fine example of this (granted that a SpecsOgre starter uses Water Spout, and Giratina has Meteor'd it), it can take a Thunder Wave and Rest it off later, he resists Kyogre's STABs, Thunder, and is neutral to Ice Beam. I feel Dialga is a good partner for this Giratina.

But, yes, I also would appreciate a slash for Hidden Power Fire. Good set overall, though.

Why so much Speeds EVs? Only 84 is needed to outrun mew, which is probs the fastest thing you'll encounter. I believe, however, the set needs to look like this:

Giratina@Haban berry/Lum berry
Mild nature
88Spd/252SAtk/168Atk
-DM
-D claw/Outrage
-Shadow sneak
-T-wave/ aura sphere/ thunder, etc.

T-wave as lead position has much more value as wow is generally just for crippling stuff as a wall. Lum helps beat darkrai. The EVs outspeed 4 spe mew. Atk EVs help shadow sneak and d claw do more damage after DM is used, when special options are low.

This hasn't been touched in ages. I am reassigning it to Iconic.

Iconic caught me looking at this so...

GP CHECK 1/2

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nicely done

made the edits, thanks fatecrashers!

GP Check 2 / 2


Deletions
Corrections

made all your changes, many thanks DJXO9!

upload me plz

You seem to have ignored my musings on giratina completely. I'd like discusision on these changes as I, have actually used this set very often.

Hopefully its not too late:

unlike Giratina-O, lead Giratina has the ability to defeat Rayquaza, and by extention, Giratina-O leads,

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Do you mean extension?

Uploading. Uploaded, good job.