Shroomish (Choice Scarf Lead)

calze6

Ok, this is my first analysis, but I wish to give it a go.

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shroomish

Topic title: Shroomish (Choice Scarf Lead)

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf Lead
move 1: Spore
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Stun Spore
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Effect Spore
nature: Timid
evs: 36 HP / 196 SpA / 36 Def / 236 Spe

<p>While giving a Choice Scarf to such a slow Pokemon may seem silly, the boost gives Timid Shroomish the magic 21 Speed. This makes Shroomish a very effective anti-lead, allowing it to outrun and sleep any non-Scarfed Pokemon with its 100% accurate Spore. This set can prevent most leads from setting up Stealth Rock. It can immobilize many top leads, including Hippopotas, Meowth, and Snover, simply by Sporing them. Neither Snover's Ice Shard nor Meowth's Fake Out will ever OHKO Shroomish, allowing it to safely incapacitate them with Spore. Energy Ball allows Shroomish to deal with leads such as Diglett, Hippopotas, Phanpy, Kabuto, and Omanyte. Sludge Bomb gives Shroomish some extra coverage while Stun Spore is convenient for paralyzing Pokemon like Gligar.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Shroomish doesn't have a fantastic movepool, but it can run a physical moveset as well. Seed Bomb may be used over Energy Ball to hit specially defensive Pokemon harder while Return complements it for extra coverage. Wake-Up Slap can be used to hit Snover, Houndour, and Aron a bit harder. Hidden Power Ice can also be used to kill Gligar. Shroomish's main objective is to Spore the opponent; if it can't OHKO the opposing lead, it should Spore to prevent the opposing lead from setting up. If the lead switches to take the hit, it ends up being slept rather than taking minimal damage. Scarf Shroomish faces some competition from Scarf Venonat. However, Venonat has Sleep Powder which, after Compoundeyes, only has 97.5% accuracy as opposed to Shroomish's 100% accurate Spore. Venonat also lacks Energy Ball, which is very useful in the lead position for dealing with common Ground- and Water-type leads. After its use in the lead position, Shroomish can revenge kill certain Pokemon that are weak to Energy ball or Spore another target if the formerly Spored Pokemon has fainted. Toxic can be also used to cripple a Pokemon, but seeing as Little Cup is a very fast paced metagame, it would be of little use.</p>

<p>Scarf Shroomish pairs up well with Houndour as Houndour can absorb the Fire-type attacks thrown at Shroomish with Flash Fire. Chinchou can switch into nearly all attacks that Shroomish is weak to and set up. Keep in mind that Shroomish cannot set up Stealth Rock, so if the team strongly benefits from a Stealth Rock user, something like Bronzor or Omanyte may be used.</p>

<p>Any Scarfed lead, such as Mankey and Gastly, will beat this set. Leads with Lum Berry can take Shroomish's Spore and and KO with any attack. Houndour that run Early Bird and Sucker Punch can also take Shroomish down. Leads with priority can significantly damage Shroomish, but generally cannot OHKO it due to its reasonable defenses.</p>

Changed seed bomb with energy ball and return with sludge bomb and changed atk EVs to SAtk EVs if that's okay. It is 100% better like that. Can someone just make sure it is okay? Then it should be ready to upload.
 
counters: ghastly doesnt counter this. sleep renders it useless and seed bomb should 2hko with rocks. mankey and houndour seem to hard counter this pretty hard though. houndour beats you with sucker punch fire blast and early bird. the move toxic sucks in lc so i wouldnt make it optional. looks good though; i don't see this cleaning any time soon.
 
this thing has only 13 attack which is pretty pathetic, so i'm not entirely sold on wake up slap being more useful than moves like stun spore or toxic which hurt any switch-in. some damage calcs on when wake up slap is more useful to be locked into than seed bomb (which has the same bp even if wakeup slap hits a se for) and return (which will always deal that 102) would be helpful to have though.

im thinking of uses for stun spore over wake up slap and the main one i see is the following scenario:

- something is already asleep, shroomish is in
- opponent switches in scarf gastly to take attack
- shroomish hits with stun spore, neutering it

or

- opponent sees shroomish lead
- they switch to scarf mankey
- you stun spore the "shroomish counter switch-in" (mankey for example), and then switch out. you can now use spore later.
 
Nice set. I wouldn't list effect spore only, as neither ability will be doing much. If the opponent is using a TS team, or you can predict a toxic, Poison Heal could be useful for recovery.
 
I'd think the small chance of shroomish sleeping or paralizing something as it dies outwieghs the chance of fighting a stall team. Does effect spore sleep break sleep clause on shoddy? Either way, definatly aggreeing with KD24 here, wake up slap needs to go, stun spore should come in.
 
I agree that Effect Spore is way more useful in Little Cup. The only way are going to be commonly poisoned in Little Cup is a) you are fighting Eo or b) you are getting hit by a Poison-type attack, which should be KOing Shroomish anyways.

Also, Wake-Up Slap does seem rather pointless except for hitting Snover and maybe Aron. I agree with KD24, Stun Spore should be slashed, if not replacing, Wake Up-Slap. Paralysis is deadly in Little Cup, and Stun Spore's ability to paralyze Gligar is too good to pass up. I guess Fake Tears is an option too for neutering Munchlax's special walling capabilities.
 
What does Wake Up Slap hit at all? Bronzor isn't bothered by it at all and everything else takes neutral Grass hits harder.
 
it hits like... houndour harder i think. but then return does more. so plez make it stun spore. a paralyzed gligar is a sad gligar.
 
can you post logs of wake up slap working effectively please? i'm not going to approve this until i see some situations, since i think stun spore is much better.
 
Added wake-Up Slap Damage Calcs. Return misses the certain chance of 2HKO on snover after SR, I think. However, I might slash it second or take it out but mention it.
 
Unless Wake-Up Slap can KO, wouldn't you want to keep them asleep? It seems like for the 18 BP, you could save yourself from an attack.
 
Wake up slap is mainly used for non sleepers just for coverage. If a number of people think that stun spore is better and I should remove wake up slap, then I will.
 
i would just put wake up slap in AC, and mention that it can be situational with a choice scarf and only hitting a few threats, but if you can predict well enough, you can hit aron, snover, and houndour harder than any other attack of yours.

ill approve if so
 
I have taken the liberty to actually test this set and its not terrible per se, but its only good at the start of the match and has limited uses after turn 1. Basically, I don't even bother using seed bomb, I just use spore off the bat because god knows what happens when you're locked in seed bomb with 13 atk. Outside of "quick sleeping", this isn't very good. All leads should have their uses, mid-game and late-game. the only moves that showed. my suggestion:

-the least you can seriously do to open up some ways to give shrooms some switch ins is paring it with someone like houndour. it will draw in pokemon like mantkye and chinchou, ultimately giving shrooms a chance to come in and threaten them with stab seed bomb. this is just to name a few, but you can at least provide more switch-in opportunities for shrooms.

-what the hell is wake up slap going to do anyways, its weak and doesn't achieve the right ohkos. stun spore is miles away more useful than wake up slap. i agree with kd; it should be moved to ac. the last thing we want are players putting wake up slap as their main attacking option. (its terrible getting locked in off 60 base atk with the number of gligar and ghost types in this metagame). stun spore please, at least it will have some uses. choiced fighting is not really a good move to get locked into but look at the top 2 abusers: machop and mankey. the latter has great speed, access to close combat, and pretty respectable attack stat, while the former has dynamicpunch to confuse-induce resist pokemon like gligar and mantyke. shrooms has 13 atk, poor stab, and things can switch in with impunity and easily set up (mantyke, gligar, etc.) just thought you'd like to hear the differences.

my two cents.
 
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