CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 9 - Art Poll 4

The final match has begun. DougJustDoug vs Kukem. Who will win? Let's find out...

1. Kukem said:

   

   
   Supporting Material

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2. DougJustDoug said:

   

   
   Supporting Material

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If you're going to post who you voted for, back it up with an explanation. Good luck you two!

Hooray! Kukem has 100% of the vote!

DougJustDoug's is C.R.E.E.P.Y and doesn't even look like a special attacker. Kukem's looks like a primary-Dark (yes i know it's fighting primary) specially attacking force that can still punch things.

Last poll: Aragornbird>Kukem>DJD
This poll: Kukem>DJD

Does everything I vote for lose???

This should be pretty close.

Voted for Kukem. He looks more like a Fighting/Dark type (DougJustDoug's looke more of a ghost or normal type, somewhat a Dark), and matches the stats better (I think of it as faster, somewhat bulky and offensive instead of a slow tank when I see it).

Both designs are excellent and whichever wins I think I can be happy with.

Kukem keeps my vote through thick and thin. It is the very last entry that has the right body shape and mesh of typing hints that CAP11 really needs. As much as I really love Doug's entry for being creative, it just doesn't stack up to the way Kukem masterfully represents CAP11's stat spread, typing, and style. And yeah, there are exceptions to the rule of matching stat spreads. "How is Krilowatt base 151 HP?!?!" is an excuse I see all of the time; I hate that too. There's no reason why we should make an exception with every CAP just to pick whichever we think looks the coolest. We should rally behind the one that fits the roll and stat spread the best first and foremost.

Take it home, Kukem.

I voted for SEO all the way, but I switched to Kukem in the third poll and this one because the wand thing makes me think of Harry Potter, and Kukem's really looks like a pokemon. I really like the colors and the sash which emphasize both the types well. The limbs actually look like primary fighting in my opinion. Kukem!

I just think that Doug's design looks so much more like a pokemon, also the pre-evo and all the background info on Voodoom seems very fitting to the desing and general idea of pokemon. Hopefull it'll win!!!

Just a simple question, how can a voodoo doll look like a Ghost?

Kukem looks like it should belong in a modern Sonic the hedgehog game

Whilst Doug's does lack some flavour,it's more "pokemonish", so thats my vote.

I still favor Doug/Voodoom on this one. My former argument still stands that Kukem's looks rather generic and sameface (I mean no offense, but it looks too much like if Luxray and Lucario got it on.).

I highly favor the more original voodoo design more, as it would be quite able to adapt itself to Pokemon, and overall just has a better feeling for it. Even if I find it a bit misleading that CAP11 would be fairly quick and Voodoom doesn't look like it's much of a runner.

Doug's voodoo doll has so much more personality. Kukem's is an impressive design but it just strikes me as a generic ninja. Too much of a Shadow the Hedgehog or Lucario vibe for my tastes.

QuimicVital said:

Just a simple question, how can a voodoo doll look like a Ghost?

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Possessed Doll. Owait. http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/banetteWe have that already.

The general idea is that the baby version starts out with only a couple of pins, and not too much abuse. It's just a sad little guy. By the time it is fully evolved, it has accumulated quite a bit of punishment, including a cracked eye button and the tell-tale sewing needle right through the heart. Yeah, it's pissed off.

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What about an abused doll coming for to life for revenge sounds like a Fighting-type?

Not saying Voodoom is not a good concept for a Pokemon, but Voodoom just does not fit in with what we have given CAP 11.

Ghost-Dark typing and Physically-inclined stats are more suited for Voodoom, but not the High Special Attack and low bulkiness we gave CAP 11. I just can't envision such a strong looking Pokemon having such a mediocre attack stat.

Still voting for kukem; arguments have already been made for it. Best fits fighting/dark, best fits stats, and while maybe not as much as djd's it still feels believable with volt absorb / lightningrod given it's head's shape and stuff. In any case, I really love this design and hope it wins, although I suppose I would be ok with either at this point.

This is sooo hard!! I like both of these designs a lot. DJD's has so much originality and it's quite charismatic, but I love Kukem's style and the feel of the design. Even though I voted for Kukem, part of me hopes DJD will win. Either way, I'll be happy with whoever wins.

I'm just going to leave this here for all these "doesn't look like *****" arguments:

tennisace said:

I really don't get why everyone is arguing over this so much. As I said in the previous poll thread, people can vote for whatever art they want for whatever reason they want. It's one of the parts of the process that has literally zero impact on the actual Pokemon. The only reason there even is art is because it's extremely popular and well liked; it brings the Pokemon together. It serves no purpose other than that, since if we wanted to we could just sprite a simple number and put that on the server.

So, there shouldn't be any bickering on whether or not a Pokemon "looks like it fits the stats", "doesn't look like a type", or anything of that sort. This is for fun. Vote for whatever you want, for whatever reason you want, and save logic for the competitive polls.

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This was what I was getting at earlier when I countered other arguments in the last poll. There really isn't much of a difference. Both designs fit the typing, base stats, etc. well enough with a few minor stretches (which both need). Sure, Kukem's design looks like it would get cut in half easily, but it's weak against Aerial Ace anyway and it has ARMOR. Sure, Doug's design looks slow, but it has VOODOO POWERS WOO. Also, voodoo dolls are NOT "possessed" or whatever like Banette is. So seriously, all these arguments are pretty pointless.

Please just vote for the one you like.

I've gushed on about why I think Doug's work is the best of the spread before, so what about a comparison between the two final works?

Well there's nothing wrong artistically with either of them at all, they're both great pieces of artwork! It's purely from a design perspective I think that the crucial differences lie.

I'm a fan of bright and distinct colours in design for a game such as Pokémon. Even dark blacks have a bit of pop to them in the games and it also makes it easier for people to take bright works and turn them into whatever they want. Hell if I had my way i'd prefer for all designs to have flat colours so that it would be even better as a template.

In Doug's design, you have very bright colours, even though browns and greys are traditionally considered dull. There's no mistaking each individual segment of colour here and also the 4 base colour scheme makes it easier for those of us in the sprite polls that care about colour requirements haha. It's very easy to simplify, complicate or change the tone of this work.

Kukem's work is a different story to me. The colours are very similar and dark. You have the black and grey being extremely close and the dusky pink/red/maroon trio along with the green tinted joints and yellow eyes. That makes for a staggering 7 base colours for a lot of similar colours and though some colour ramps can be drafted up for sprites to overcome any colour count issues it still doesn't sit well with me. Does it really need that much? In addition, though the yellow highlight on the work is very dramatic it does give the impression that the work is under a bright light source which isn't as easy to use as neutral shading. It would be okay if a supporting work had this but the only other supporting piece with colour has the exact same type of shading! Dramatic, yes, cool, yes, practical, not really.

This is just going through the technical aspects of the designs colour schemes. I'd rather not get into whether the ninja-esque design is preferable over the voodoo design or vice versa. I know which I prefer however that's just personal taste and nobody should be shunned for that.

capefeather said:

Also, voodoo dolls are NOT "possessed" or whatever like Banette is. So seriously, all these arguments are pretty pointless.

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Sorry to cut down your post to this but I would just like to say this regarding Banette (and yes, I read your post. Nothing much to say about the rest.):

Origin

Its appearance and habit of sticking itself with pins is highly reminiscent of voodoo dolls. Its Pokédex backstory of an ordinary doll coming to life is similar to the Tsukumogami.

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That is all.

Overall, it's quite clear that the Tsukumogami is the main inspiration for Banette, and that the pin thing, which is mentioned only in the Ruby description, was a lazy afterthought in comparison. So please, let's not nitpick on such pointless details. I regret even mentioning it.

EDIT: Why are people putting so much empty effort into telling people what a ninja is? I'm pretty sure we all know what a ninja is. We don't need a mass of Wikipedia links to do so. Besides, we all know that ninjas have been depicted in RBY as specialists of the Poison type. All of this is ambiguous.

Went with Kukem, I think it fits the flavour better, but may the best design win I suppose...

I could write a whole paragraph that nobody will care to read over who should winnn or whatever, but I'll just summarize it.

Kukem's is a Dark/Fighting type.
Doug's isn't a fighting type.

IVoteWoot4Kukem

I'll also summarize.

The practice of voodoo has nothing to do with Fighting-techniques and everything to with secrecy (Dark) and the dead (Ghost).

Meanwhile, ninjas are "covert agent (Dark, covert being secret or hidden) or mercenary of feudal Japan specializing in unorthodox arts of war. The functions of the ninja included espionage, sabotage, infiltration, and assassination, as well as open combat (Fighting) in certain situations."

DJD's concept does not fit the typing.
Kukem's does.

Vote however you will, though. Not like I'm stopping you.


Edit: A small, quick thing. Ghost-types practice voodoo when they use "Curse".

I love DJD's design, but I don't feel it gets the concept across well - it seems like a pure Dark or perhaps Dark/Normal, but certainly not Fighting/Dark. And it seems like it's a tank with high physical offense - this is even in the supporting material, where Doug makes reference to how the prevo is supposed to take punishment. It definitely does not seem like a speedy special attacker. The "wand" seems rather odd to me, and would seem much more natural as a sword of spear or something. That is to say, something physical. I really wish the stat spread and typing worked for Doug's design, because it's a beautiful design that's been beautifully presented, but I simply can't vote for it, because it doesn't ft the concept. So for that reason, I'm voting Kukem (not to say that I'm only voting Kukem by default - in fact, it was my favourite design at Poll 2, the first poll I participated in. I'm just explaining why I love DJD's design, but can't vote for it).

Kukem just fits the mould better, suits the typing better (more fighting looking) and suits the stats better. Although DJDs is more characterful and more imaginatinve, I feel that this is outweighed by the fittingness of Kukem's design with the traits that have been decided for it so far.

I think anyone should be able to give their own justification on a choice, as it's completely subjective what people see in designs, so I don't think you should have to go for one for a specific criteria - be it aesthetic appeal, concept fit, stats/typing fit or whatever. It's the variety of opinion that makes these things interesting, and someone's always gonna end up not getting what they wanted, there's a reason it's a community poll.

wyverii has made probably the only good post in this thread. although i did chuckle at the comparison to sonic!

Venator said:

Edit: A small, quick thing. Ghost-types practice voodoo when they use "Curse".

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so what does it mean when snorlax uses curse?

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GO VOODOOM!

Okay, my final vote is for DougJustDoug. Every pokemon is based off something you can recognize, and while Voodoom is obvious, Kukem's is called the Dark Loris Pokemon, and I fail to see the resemblance. I also think Volt Absorb/Lightningrod is exectued better in Voodoom.

Also, we don't have a pure voodo pokemon yet, though Banette is similar.

But, if we consider CAP11 to be a ninja:
Nicada: the Trainee Pokemon
Ninjask: the Ninja Pokemon

Different body style, same inner concept. So I don't think that "Banette is too similar" is a good reason not to vote for DougJustDoug. Just some thoughts, both concepts have their own pros and cons, but most have been stated already.

Voted for Doug, and hoping we can name it something a little less obvious than Voodoom.